Commuting - So what's the latest dealio on generator hubs?

Thinking of building up my next ride with hub powered lights rather than battery powered ones.
Anyone have the low down on current most popular choices?
I did some searching and Shimano seems to be popular for low drag.
Anyone have any advice?

When on, the lastest SON, SRAM iLight and Shimano 3N7x are pretty much all equal. When off, the least efficient it the SRAM, then Shimano's, then SON.

For cost-efficiency, I'd say the Shimano is the best so far if you turn it off. If you always keep it on, I'd go with SRAM's. If you have money to spend, go with SON.

:)

Oh and I know Sturmey-Archer does them too, but I don't know how they are. If anyone knows what they are like, it would be fun to know.

Oh and I know Sturmey-Archer does them too, but I don't know how they are. If anyone knows what they are like, it would be fun to know.

Don't have the newest SA dynohub...yet;) But from what I gather the internals are very, very similar to the Shimano ones. I can vouch for the Shimano as being an excellent hub for the money. Check into the LED lights from Spangia or B&M. They are a bit pricey on the front end, but you don't have to worry about them burning out at inopportune moments.

Aaron:)

Thinking of building up my next ride with hub powered lights rather than battery powered ones.
Anyone have the low down on current most popular choices?
I did some searching and Shimano seems to be popular for low drag.
Anyone have any advice?

http://bp1.blogger.com/_vUEhS0lU3eU/R0CDXqk9shI/AAAAAAAADhE/RGiRHZ_GJ9w/s400/VBQgenerator_Page_1.jpg

Bicycle Quarterly did a nice review of hubs (http://bp1.blogger.com/_vUEhS0lU3eU/R0CDXqk9shI/AAAAAAAADhE/RGiRHZ_GJ9w/s400/VBQgenerator_Page_1.jpg).

Having had a SON and using a Shimano hub at present - if money is an issue get the Shimano hub. It's 80% of the SON at less than 50% the cost. If you've got lots of $$$ and like bling the SON is very nice and is probably worth the extra cost if you keep it for the long haul.

... As for headlights, get the Lumotec IQ Fly. It is 2-3 times brighter than the Schmidt E-6 for roughly the same price.

Or wait for the new Schmidt E-delux that should come around this June. It should also be more expensive.

I actually ordered the DLumotec Oval plus, based on the similarity to the Halogen version. I am not real picky about my light patterns...

Aaron:)

I have a Shimano Alfine (disc) dynamo up front with a Lumotech IQ Fly n-plus senso, and a Lumotech DToplight XS in back. I love this setup so much I can hardly stand it.

http://stankertanker.blogspot.com/2008/03/how-to-put-your-lazy-ass-front-wheel-to.html

Joey French

Can anyone rate these lites in luminins? (or however you spell it)
CE

Well mine (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=186066) is making just short of 500 lumens. Love it :)

For lights this is rumored to be the best thing going.

http://www.supernova-lights.com/en/products/e3/e3_english.html

http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&id=2759


Not cheap but then... you never need to buy batteries. :D

I have a Shimano Alfine (disc) dynamo up front with a Lumotech IQ Fly n-plus senso, and a Lumotech DToplight XS in back. I love this setup so much I can hardly stand it.

http://stankertanker.blogspot.com/2008/03/how-to-put-your-lazy-ass-front-wheel-to.html

Joey French

That looks like a really nice setup at a good price.

The supernova looks awesome but a bit pricey.
Maybe if i needed to SEE but mostly I just need to be SEEN. :)

For lights this is rumored to be the best thing going.

http://www.supernova-lights.com/en/products/e3/e3_english.html

http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&id=2759


Not cheap but then... you never need to buy batteries. :D

Sweet. I was hoping Harris Cyclery would be stocking these. Now I just need to start saving my pennies. :D

... As for headlights, get the Lumotec IQ Fly. It is 2-3 times brighter than the Schmidt E-6 for roughly the same price.

For Christmas, I built up a generator hub wheel for my girlfriend and gave her a Lumotec IQ Fly. I run with a dual pair of E6's myself, and it's interesting doing side-by-side comparisons when we ride together. Both of our lights are mounted just above the fork crown, and we ride at roughly 12 mph on average when going through town.

The beam of the E6 is very long but narrow and is a boon if you do a lot of fast night riding, but objects outside the relatively narrow beam do get shadowy, so if you're making a lot of turns on unlit streets, it's sometimes hard to see potholes or curb sides.

The Fly's beam is not quite as long, but it's much wider, and it illuminates near objects rather well. For commuting, it's perfect, and the light is extremely visible from at least 200 yards away. (as in, the intersection that my girl turns on to approach our apartment is about 200 yards from our door, and it's very easy to see her approach). I've been able to spot her DToplight generator taillight from about a quarter mile away.

As far as specific hub models go ... I have a SON, but I agree that if one is working in a tight budget, the Shimano is a fine competitor. As far as added resistance goes, to my mind, the drag on the SON when it's on is relatively innocuous. I've started more than a few morning commutes with the lights on from last night, and only noticed when I'd be approaching a car at an intersection and would see my lights reflected back at me.

For lights this is rumored to be the best thing going.

http://www.supernova-lights.com/en/products/e3/e3_english.html

http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&id=2759


Not cheap but then... you never need to buy batteries. :D

I'm building my next wheel with a SON28B and a coupling to a Supernova E3 light (maybe a pair of them, eventually.) The light output is equivalent to any 500-600 lumen single lamp I've seen, and the price is not prohibitive when you start comparing the lifetime of the SON hub and E3 light to the lifetime of a 500-600 lumen battery-powered light.

SON28 and E3 light ~ $450
500 lumen LED or HID with Li-on battery ~ $500
Extra battery when the current one wears out ~ $75

The new shimano hubs are great, you really don't notice the drag.

It will cost $200 to get a wheel-build that includes a shimano hub. Thats about $150-$170 more than what you would spend on batteries and charger.

If you ride at night very often, it is a good investment. For your $150 you never need to worry about changing batteries or getting caught without batteries. If that is worth $150 to you, get a generator hub.

So your system constantly charges the battery while in motion and discharges while stationary?
Do you need a voltage regulator?

CE

Sorry, I wasn't really clear on what those prices meant.

The SON/E3 setup will only cost $450 over the lifetime of the system. The lamp itself is rated to 100,000 hours, and I haven't heard of anyone wearing out a SON28 hub.

The $75 replacement battery was referencing the price you'll have to shell out every 3 or 4 years after buying a $500 lighting kit, to keep the system working when the original battery conks out.

Now, there's also the argument of is it cheaper to replace a battery every 3-4 years, or replace your front rim every time you wear it out?
- How fast do you burn through a rim? Rim brakes will speed that up, but the SON28 comes in a disc model now, so you can go that route and eliminate the rim issues.
- Do you build your own wheels or pay for the build? That's going to influence cost greatly. It's typically $40-$50 just in labour for a wheel build-up.

If you use rim brakes and wear through a rim in a couple of winters, ride a pricey rim like a CxP33 or Deep V, and pay a builder for your wheels, then the upkeep of the SON28 would be just as much (or more) than the upkeep on replacement batteries.
Then you just need to look at convenience factors like remembering to charge the battery.

Honestly, when you start getting into the pricey systems like these, it's less about output comparison and more about upkeep efforts.

So your system constantly charges the battery while in motion and discharges while stationary?
Do you need a voltage regulator? Some generator driven lights have a capacitor (basically a battery) that keeps the light powered when you're stationary. Other lights, like the E6 do not have a capacitor and just go dark once you've stopped. The IQ Fly stays lit for about five minutes after stopped.

You do not need a separate voltage regulator. I believe a regulator is actually built into the hub.

Thinking of building up my next ride with hub powered lights rather than battery powered ones.
Anyone have the low down on current most popular choices?
I did some searching and Shimano seems to be popular for low drag.
Anyone have any advice?

There have already been plenty of posts on this topic, but I'll chime in that I am very pleased with my Shimano generator hub. The Ultegra bearings on this unit are so good that the wheel with the generator hub actually moves smoother in my hands than the OEM Bontrager wheel that came on my Gerry Fisher. With the light turned off the generator hub wheel wheel will spring longer than the OEM. I can feel the "notches" from the magenets, but that is normal. The SON hub is supposed to be a bit more efficient but for more than double the cost I could not justify the difference. I love having the light working all winter long and never worry about batteries. I have the DLumotec Oval Plus. If I were to buy it today I'd get the IQFly. The IQ Fly was not out yet so this was not an option. The IQ Fly costs only a few dollars more, but is much brighter.

Happy riding,
André

A few precisions:

Spokenword:
Strictly speaking, the voltage regulator is not built in the hub, but rather built in the light. The generator produces a constant 0,5 A, at a voltage that increases when you ride faster. Headlights such as the E-6 and the Lumotec have a zeener diode that caps the current at 6,7 or 6,8 V. In the LED-based offerings by Lumotec (DLumotec and Lumotec IQ FLy), SuperNova and the upcoming Schmidt E-delux, the headlight has a different circuitry that produces the same result: keeping the voltage in check.

Jeffbeerman2 and CliftonGK1:
I have saved money by ordering my hubs from Peter White, buying my spokes locally and building my own wheels. That way, I was able to recycle the rims I had. Building the wheels was fairly easy. I simply followed the late Sheldon Brown's wheelbuilding instructions (http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html). I built the wheel on the floor and used the bike as truing stand and a small screwdriver as feeler. The first wheel I built took me 4-5 hours on two nights; I now build them in about 1-2 hours, truing included.

Spokenword:
Thanks for the side by side comparison of the E-6 and IQ Fly. I used to have an E-6 main and a Lumotec (round) secondary that was a carryover from yet more ancient days. When I received the IQ Fly, I removed the Lumotec secondary and wired the E-6 main differently to use it as a secondary headlight with the Lumotec IQ Fly.

How did I "convert" the E-6 ?
I did not break anything. In a nutshell, I keep the E-6 permanently on and have installed a bypass switch in parallel to short it out of the circuit. I have installed the E-6 + bypass switch in series with the IQ Fly. I aim the E-6 a bit higher than I used to. With the little experience I have on pitch-dark roads, I find that the E-6 truly adds to the reach when I ride faster than 20-25 km/h. Probably not worthed if I had to buy the secondary light, but since I already had it, the 3 $ switch is a worthy investment.

A few precisions:

Jeffbeerman2 and CliftonGK1:
I have saved money by ordering my hubs from Peter White, buying my spokes locally and building my own wheels. That way, I was able to recycle the rims I had. Building the wheels was fairly easy. I simply followed the late Sheldon Brown's wheelbuilding instructions (http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html). I built the wheel on the floor and used the bike as truing stand and a small screwdriver as feeler. The first wheel I built took me 4-5 hours on two nights; I now build them in about 1-2 hours, truing included.


My LBS has the SON28B for just less than PWC, and I get my spokes and rims at www.bikeman.com for pretty cheap. The $50 I spent on a truing stand has saved me more money than I can tally up in wheel truing, and I've already built a track wheel from scratch so I'm ready for building the SON28 wheel when I can afford the parts.
I'm thinking about waiting until I need to swap rims anyhow, and rebuilding my rear wheel at the same time using DT Swiss RR1.2, or Alex DA-28 rims for both.

I have a Shimano Alfine (disc) dynamo up front with a Lumotech IQ Fly n-plus senso, and a Lumotech DToplight XS in back. I love this setup so much I can hardly stand it.

http://stankertanker.blogspot.com/2008/03/how-to-put-your-lazy-ass-front-wheel-to.html

Joey French

Where did you get this Alfine generator hub?? I want one!

-Sam

For lights this is rumored to be the best thing going.

http://www.supernova-lights.com/en/products/e3/e3_english.html

http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&id=2759


Not cheap but then... you never need to buy batteries. :D

This sort of thing is why I should stop reading the forums now that I have "perfected" my bike. There is always something a bit nicer than what you already have :(

This sort of thing is why I should stop reading the forums now that I have "perfected" my bike. There is always something a bit nicer than what you already have :(

:D:roflmao:

I don't want to know how much money I have spent after someone posts some neat item on here...

I can claim at least 3-4 bikes and I have no clue as to how many accessories I "had" to have after seeing them on here.:rolleyes:

Aaron:)

Sorry, I wasn't really clear on what those prices meant.

The SON/E3 setup will only cost $450 over the lifetime of the system. The lamp itself is rated to 100,000 hours, and I haven't heard of anyone wearing out a SON28 hub.

The $75 replacement battery was referencing the price you'll have to shell out every 3 or 4 years after buying a $500 lighting kit, to keep the system working when the original battery conks out.

Now, there's also the argument of is it cheaper to replace a battery every 3-4 years, or replace your front rim every time you wear it out?
- How fast do you burn through a rim? Rim brakes will speed that up, but the SON28 comes in a disc model now, so you can go that route and eliminate the rim issues.
- Do you build your own wheels or pay for the build? That's going to influence cost greatly. It's typically $40-$50 just in labour for a wheel build-up.

If you use rim brakes and wear through a rim in a couple of winters, ride a pricey rim like a CxP33 or Deep V, and pay a builder for your wheels, then the upkeep of the SON28 would be just as much (or more) than the upkeep on replacement batteries.
Then you just need to look at convenience factors like remembering to charge the battery.

Honestly, when you start getting into the pricey systems like these, it's less about output comparison and more about upkeep efforts.


But those are essentially separate issues. I mean... unless you throw away your hub every time you wear out a rim, you'd be replacing the front rims anyway. Plus... there's a little bit of drag from the hub (very little from the SON) but still it should mean that you'll have to brake just *slightly* less and your rims will last longer. ;)

This sort of thing is why I should stop reading the forums now that I have "perfected" my bike. There is always something a bit nicer than what you already have :(

Hehehe... yeah. I made the mistake of getting on here before buying a full touring rig with all the fixin's.

How much have I spent? :eek: Don't ask!

Don't have the newest SA dynohub...yet;) But from what I gather the internals are very, very similar to the Shimano ones. I can vouch for the Shimano as being an excellent hub for the money. Check into the LED lights from Spangia or B&M. They are a bit pricey on the front end, but you don't have to worry about them burning out at inopportune moments.

Aaron:)

I run one of the new SA dynohubs. It is nice and provides enough power to light my way. It has some slight noticeable drag when it is on but not too much. I noticed more drag with my tyres at 40psi instead of the 65-80psi I usually run, than from the dynohub.
BTW the SA dynohub is only available combined with a drum brake. I have over 2500kms on my Rocket since I put the dynohub on and I'm only a quarter of the way through the adjustment on the brake. My riding is mostly flat but I have done a loaded tour and the brake held up fine. The drum provides similar stopping power to most rim brakes (slightly less than V-brakes) but less power than discs. The drum brake is good in the wet and when it is cold, but I notice a slight pulsing when applying the brake at very low speeds when the lights are on.

I haven't wired up the lights on my shimano dynohub to compare, and I've never used a SON hub.

BikEthan,

On my single touring bike, I have a Schmidt hub with approximately 30 000 km. Since a lot of that mileage is city riding in all weather and since the rim predates the Schmidt dynohub and has roughly 40 000 km, it got fairly worn out and I replaced it a few days ago. Since I build my own wheels, it cost me a whopping 35 $... for some 7 years of cycling. And if I were using a battery-operated headlight, it would have cost me a battery every 2-3 years (batteries quickly loose their autonomy when used in Winter) and it would have cost me the same amount of money to change the rim anyways.


But most importantly, the main reason I got a generator is for the autonomy. I can ride for 5-6 hours without worrying whether I'll be home before the battery dies. I don't need to recharge batteries every 2-3 days (my taillights last more than 2 weeks on a charge), and when I tour, I know that I'll be able to use my headlight if the visibility is poor or if I happen to ride at night, even if that happens on week 3 of the tour. And when I camp, I don't need to find a "powered tree" to recharge batteries.

I got a SON about 7 years ago. I would never go back to battery lighting, futzing around with chargers, etc.

The SON is absolutely bulletproof, I have no idea how many miles are on it and it still works and looks like new. I've used it quite a bit offroad on the C&O towpath, riding there regurlarly, as well as commuting and other recreational riding. I can't tell the difference between when it is on and when I have another wheel w/a Campy record hub in it.

To me, the fact that you can use this as a bona fide road hub for touring/trekking as well as city use makes it worth the extra money, which you will forget the difference many years before one of these wears out. Shimano is getting close, and I've been tempted by their latest offerings, but I think it is going to take one more product generation before they have a true competitor for the SON in terms of weight/quality/efficiency/durability, etc.

BikEthan,

On my single touring bike, I have a Schmidt hub with approximately 30 000 km. Since a lot of that mileage is city riding in all weather and since the rim predates the Schmidt dynohub and has roughly 40 000 km, it got fairly worn out and I replaced it a few days ago. Since I build my own wheels, it cost me a whopping 35 $... for some 7 years of cycling. And if I were using a battery-operated headlight, it would have cost me a battery every 2-3 years (batteries quickly loose their autonomy when used in Winter) and it would have cost me the same amount of money to change the rim anyways.


But most importantly, the main reason I got a generator is for the autonomy. I can ride for 5-6 hours without worrying whether I'll be home before the battery dies. I don't need to recharge batteries every 2-3 days (my taillights last more than 2 weeks on a charge), and when I tour, I know that I'll be able to use my headlight if the visibility is poor or if I happen to ride at night, even if that happens on week 3 of the tour. And when I camp, I don't need to find a "powered tree" to recharge batteries.

Sounds like it's definitely cheaper to run a SON long term than a battery operated light to me. Not to mention that you're dealing with the environmental impact of some magnates and some copper vs. some pretty toxic chemicals from the batteries that need to be replaced every few years.

Thinking of building up my next ride with hub powered lights rather than battery powered ones.
Anyone have the low down on current most popular choices?
I did some searching and Shimano seems to be popular for low drag.
Anyone have any advice?

Shimano dynamohubs gives very good value for money:
Shimano DH-3N80 at 490g
Shimano DH-3N71 at 655g
They are both silver which is something I prefer. I think the Shimano Alfine dynamo hub is comparable to the DH-3N71 and it is black if that is what you like.

SON products are said to be wonderfull but I have no personal experience with them. I have used the Shimano dynamo hubs for a couple of years and they have been giving perfect service.
One problem I have heard of is that dynamo hubs should only be disassembled from one side only when servicesing the bearings. If openend from the wrong side the wires connecting the generator are pulled over, but few LBS's knows this.

I think the BUMM Lumotec IQ Fly is a perfect commuter light. It is powerfull enough for most peoples needs. It is a LED so it works even at very slow speeds, the standlight is also very good and the "bulb" never pops. But even the cheapest Lumotec halogen lights are actually very good.
The best and most expensive dynamo light is the E3 Supernova, but it is hard to get and perhaps not worth it for most commuters.

I also love the BUMM permanent attached rear lights; I just jump on the bike whenever I feel like, never having to worry about lugging lights with me or whether the batteries are charged or not. It is also great to have the lights on in the daytime when it rains.
There is one minor downside to using a generator front light and that is no easy lighting when repairing stuff at night. There are several options;
Use the rear light.
A tiny LED light like this (10 for 5$);
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1100
I have one of these in my repair kit. They weigh nothing.

Or a powerfull AA LED light like this (17$):
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.1995
I own this flashlight and is impressed by its power and build quality. I wouldn't bother with it on my commute though, since a tiny LED are sufficient for my needs.

--
Regards

Where did you get this Alfine generator hub?? I want one!

-Sam

I had to order it from a german site, bike-components.de. It was a little spendy, but it was exactly what I wanted, dynamo with disc brake mount, etc...

I run one of the new SA dynohubs. It is nice and provides enough power to light my way. It has some slight noticeable drag when it is on but not too much. I noticed more drag with my tyres at 40psi instead of the 65-80psi I usually run, than from the dynohub.
BTW the SA dynohub is only available combined with a drum brake. I have over 2500kms on my Rocket since I put the dynohub on and I'm only a quarter of the way through the adjustment on the brake. My riding is mostly flat but I have done a loaded tour and the brake held up fine. The drum provides similar stopping power to most rim brakes (slightly less than V-brakes) but less power than discs. The drum brake is good in the wet and when it is cold, but I notice a slight pulsing when applying the brake at very low speeds when the lights are on.

I haven't wired up the lights on my shimano dynohub to compare, and I've never used a SON hub.

For the pulsating brake, make sure that your brake arm clip isn't loose. It could very well be the culprit.

Wow, lots of new products out there and I`ve only had my "antique" 3N71/Lumotec halogen system for a year. What`s this 3N80 hub? Pretty much a lightened 3N71? The only thing remotely useful that came up on a quick search was Shimano`s specs and I don`t see the difference except weight (and that isn`t very clear).

Anybody have experience with both the IQ Fly and the 2.4W or 3W halogen Lumotec? Again, very little info on the LED guy.

Good to hear the Supernova is easily available in North America now. I can`t see myself spending that much, but it does look like a nice option. Maybe someday...

Well, it just seems like a new model that's lighter. I have no info for its performance. They say it's "Parallel for StVZO" (German road traffic licensing regulations bureau), which I have no idea what it means.

i love my shimano dyno hub + scmidt e6, even if the e6 goes out when i stop..

i kept the dyno on (the whole time) for a 120 mile jaunt a few weeks ago, didn't notice any drag.

120 miles is way out of my range, but I never turn off my dyno light. Mine is on a "racked out" Nexus commute and grocery bike that runs close to 40# empty.

You do not need a separate voltage regulator. I believe a regulator is actually built into the hub.

There's no voltage regulator in the Shimano hub. I believe it's usually built into the light.

I had to order it from a german site, bike-components.de. It was a little spendy, but it was exactly what I wanted, dynamo with disc brake mount, etc...

Also www.cyclecomponents.com (Swedish). They can build the whole wheel to your specs.

http://www.cyclecomponents.com/cgi-bin/air_ibutik.fcgi?avd=10&funk=steg_tva&artgrp=2203

I think they have an English section, but if not, just send them an email.

Well, it just seems like a new model that's lighter. I have no info for its performance. They say it's "Parallel for StVZO" (German road traffic licensing regulations bureau), which I have no idea what it means.

That just means it fits the standard 3W 6V scheme, to comply with German laws. In other words, the power output won't differ substantially from the others.

Well mine (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=186066) is making just short of 500 lumens. Love it :)

How does it compare to something like the Niterider digital evolution?