Advocacy & Safety - Call me crazy but a sail on a bike could be good!

I have always thought that somehow devising a sail on my bike could really help out on a windy day if i'm heading in the right direction. i am thinking that maybe i could get some type of real light metal, have it on my rear rack when not in use and then when i need it i could have some sort of hole to base it in. has anyone ever done anything like this or have any ideas???


Gabe

Sounds exciting! Do you sail boats? I would think there are some principles that would apply. Also I would think that cloth would fold up better. Try it and report!

Joe

I have always thought that somehow devising a sail on my bike could really help out on a windy day if i'm heading in the right direction. i am thinking that maybe i could get some type of real light metal, have it on my rear rack when not in use and then when i need it i could have some sort of hole to base it in. has anyone ever done anything like this or have any ideas???


Gabe


Why not just ride something with a motor. It would be good until the wind changes directions and pulls you off your bike into traffic and you die.

Why not ride something with a motor?? what kinda question is that, your sarcasm is not appreciated. but the thought of the wind changing direction and pulling me into traffic, well, that would suck and it probably is a possibilty.


peace

GQ

Wind bicycles have been tried in a few wide open spaces like the Bonneville Salt Flats. It's not a new idea, because I remember reading about it some 6-7 years ago, and I'm aware that a few "human powered vehicles" have done trials with sails, just like they do some with solar power and other forms of "strange" power sources. However, sailing works only in a wide open space so the vehicle has enough room to lean sideways or even to move sideways with the wind gusts. It has also been done with a bicycle modified with one or two outriggers like a catamaran to give more stability to the vehicle.

That being said, a small sail might work safely on highways when one has a good tailwind. But to be effective, the tailwind should be a constant one and totally a tailwind. Besides, on a tour, I woudn't want to carry too big a sail just for the few days it would be useful. Don't you know that a cyclist always have a headwind?.

Regards,

That being said, a small sail might work safely on highways when one has a good tailwind. But to be effective, the tailwind should be a constant one and totally a tailwind.

Yes, the fundamental problem is that a bicyclist cannot tack to harness any wind other than a direct tailwind. Zig-zagging down the road is dangerous and "tacky" public relations for cyclists.

I think i am gonna just 86 this idea i had.

All sail craft have a headwind... it causes and effect known as "apparent wind." The best wind to drive a sailcraft is from about ten degrees off your face (right or left) to about 20 degrees off your tail. When it's from the side it's called a "beam reach," and is the most power you can get.

A sail doesn't push you along, it literally sucks you along, working like an aircraft wing. You can adjust the sail to the wind, but on a curving road or turning corners you'll be fooling around with it from side to side etc. If you could be on an open road with a good steady sidewind, a sail could boost your speed considerably.

When I was a kid I used my big nylon windbreaker jacket as a kind of sail. I would just put my hand in the pocket and stretch out my arm to catch the breeze. I could even get slight side winds depending on how I held my arm.

I don't know about a sail on a bike, but I know of a guy in Bloomington, MN who built a rocket-powered bike....

And when that said blows right into your front wheel.... bad!

Jay

Gabe, the history and experience of mariners seems to weigh in against your proposal, but I don't call you crazy.
Western sailing depended on sailing without a jigsail until the advent of a certain Dutchman who tried a smaller sail on the front of his small craft out in some body of water off the coast of his city.
So, to be able to steer yourself, you would have to change the orientation of 2, rather than 1 sails, as well as use the handlebars as a rudder.

Jacob

recumbent may be the way to go on a sail bike. I would only use it in a wide open space and not intercity riding.

recumbent may be the way to go on a sail bike. I would only use it in a wide open space and not intercity riding.
I thought I'd go ahead and revive this thread since it's an interesting topic. Sounds like my thinking is pretty similar - I was thinking about the idea. It also occured to me that a recumbent would be more well suited for a sail because of the lower center of gravity.

That said, as others have mentioned a small, adjustable, removable sail on a standard bike might be useful in some situations. If you were traveling with a tailwind or light sidewind, it could provide a useful boost. This is especially true with hills: if you're riding a long, steady incline with a tailwind, it seems to me that a sail would make climbing much easier. Since you would be going that fast, there'd be a little to no drag effect.

Obviously there are conditions where a sail would be a hindrance: When you are riding on flat or downcline surface with little or no wind a sail would obviously create a great deal of resistance (which it why it would need to be easily removable). An obviously it's probably not a good idea in the city, only on an open road (even then it would need to be fairly small). But I'm really curious if anyone has had any progress and success with this idea.

I'm in it to burn calories, not for speed and thrills. Interesting idea though.

It seems to me that you would need a platform (3 or 4 wheeled) wide enough and with a low enough center of gravity that gusts that drag you to the side would not tip you over. They race such things out on the flats, but they don't have much in common with bicyces I am afraid.

There was a similar post some time back about the idea of a parachute to scrub speed on long down hills. I think the concern in that one was the same: an unexpected change in wind dragging you into traffic or toppling you.

Remember "Water World"?

Remember that folding, curved blade, wind generator thingy he had?

Put one of those on the back of your bike and run the shaft into a gearbox to turn the back wheel. The more wind, the faster you go and it doesn't matter which direction the wind is coming from.

While on my Canada-to-Key West tour, I did amost 30 miles of flat riding without pedaling, just sat up in the saddle and opened up my jacket like Batman.

As both a sailor and a cyclist, and having read some of the comments here... I would have to agree that the biggest issue would be the keel... or a stable base from which to launch the sail... second issue would be the need to tack, and thus zig zag around on the streets.

The bottom line is that sailing on a wheeled vehicle can be done, but it won't much resemble a bicycle. And it is highly unlikely that you could do it in a city environment.

http://www.funadventure.com/product_pics/3672-1.jpg

While on my Canada-to-Key West tour, I did amost 30 miles of flat riding without pedaling, just sat up in the saddle and opened up my jacket like Batman.

Ah ha... Dead Down Wind... perhaps the best way to cycle sail.

Remember "Water World"?
No :p


While on my Canada-to-Key West tour, I did amost 30 miles of flat riding without pedaling, just sat up in the saddle and opened up my jacket like Batman.

Yeah, that's more the type of idea I'm thinking of, but a small sail would give you the advantage of being able to peddle while simultaneously using the wind. A large sail-boat style contraption is too cumbersome for general riding. What I'm thinking of would primarily be used sporadically for geography like long hills and level terrain. It would be fairly small: a base of about 60-80 centimeters wide and height of about 70-90 centimeters (sorry, I'm not familiar with sail terminology, so forgive me if I'm using the wrong terms).

This is a picture of a kite buggy or traction trike. This is probably as close as you will get to what you want to do.

I have been into traction kiting (kites that pull to do work) for a long time and yes I have spent a few afternoons on the Marina Green trying to make the wind power a bike. My face has now healed, and with all sincerity I say to you “best of luck with that”.



http://www.virtualkitestore.com/lynn_buggy_lrg_2.jpg

While on my Canada-to-Key West tour, I did amost 30 miles of flat riding without pedaling, just sat up in the saddle and opened up my jacket like Batman.
Who needs a sail .... get a raincoat!

I've actually seen this work in practice in the UK.

The one principle difference is the size of the sail. The sail that I saw was about 1.5 x 2.5 ft. It was mounted on the back of a recumbent on two pronged fork, raised up above the rider. The fabric was made of a mesh and the sail could be rotated through 180 degrees from lateral to lateral. This allowed the rider to take advantage of almost 180 degrees of wind direction from behind.

The clever bit was that the poles holding the sail could be pulled together turning the sail into a flag, useful for city riding and removing much of the hinderance from any headwind.

The guy who created it had mounted the control mechanism on his handlebars (apparently not a good design for joystick recumbents) and said the mesh factor was important because, although he lost a little gain, he was able to stop effectively in high tailwinds.

I went to high school in the mid 70's in Hays, Kansas, and one of my buddies family started and still run RANS, who make recumbents and airplane kits. Their first product was the 'sail trike', and it was a blast. Here's a link to a page with some info about it. Rans Sail Trike (http://www.ransbikes.com/company.htm) I still remember riding one, trying to coordinate everything. Thank god that the only kind of beer you could get in KS at the time was 3.2 beer, or I'd probably be dead now.

Steve W.
Who has just had a pleasant flashback

I don't think you're nuts. However, I also don't think mounting a sail on the bike is the way to go. Better to try to figure out a "wearable sail" -- i.e. something that lets you use your arms and body position to change the position and shape of the sail to optimize what it does for you.

On another note, I don't think a sail will help you go fast for the simple reason that with bikes, most of the energy comes from pedaling. For example, let's suppose you have the perfect 15 mph wind helping you out. Most cyclists will use that to maintain a cruising speed that's way above 15 -- in which case your sail is a liability.

http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=189291