Mountain Biking - Cannondale steps into the freeride hardtail market..

The new Aaron Chase model for 2004 tells me that Cannondale is watching the market and knows what the people want as usual. Looks like a reasonable components spec, and I imagine that if the bike catches on they'll start offering more freeride hardtails with higher-end parts specs as well. There's not any high-end gadgetry or anything on the bike, so there's nothing expensive to break. Mavic wheels (But Cannondale hubs :( ) Avid disc brakes, and 2.35 Maxxis tires. Seems like a solid entry into the freeride hardtail world.


http://www.cannondale.com/bikes/04/cusa/images/large/4FSDJBBQ.jpg



I don't have a clue as to how much it's going to cost, however.

The one and only canondale I have ever seen that made me want to buy from them. Saw that a while ago and it makes me drool every time...damn sexy bike.

Hmm... Thats usrful :) I was looking at a freeride hardtail rig, for dirt jumping and aggro XC, but i will be getting into much more technical and extreme stuff, I can see my riding improving :)

I don't have a clue as to how much it's going to cost, however.

I would guess upwards of 2500$ if we go by typical pricing of a canondale. Their immediate markup of 25 to 50% for cost of their name. (2500 cdn btw). Real value of that bike on a similar frame would be about 1500cdn tops.

Hey, I thought all the slick, glossy covered, advertiser driven MTB magazines said that hardtails were dead.

Someone better tell the industry that because it looks like the so-called "dead" are rising from their graves! ;)

The one and only canondale I have ever seen that made me want to buy from them. Saw that a while ago and it makes me drool every time...damn sexy bike.

Dude, no.

Dude, no.

How do you qualify the "Dude,no"? It's a bit vague. Do you mean:

NO, don't ever buy Cannondales; and if so why?

OR

NO, there are many other Cannodales worth buying.


Just curious -- even though I have no current plans on buying a Cannondale.

Looking at http://www.bikehighway.com/recalls.htm and Cannondale recalls seem no more or less than any other brands.

Dude, no.

Don't worry. After talking to the distributor and an owner of a shop on the west coast and describing what I do and how 'smooth' I am. Canondale will never be an option (not even the rep wanted me to buy their bike haha)

but you have to give some props. Get a street rider like chase, make a sexy bike (finally) and stick his name on it. Damn smart marketting for a basic street ht. :)

Maelstrom.. have you ridden the Gemini? That bike is indestructable! We'll see how tough this Chase hardtail is I'm sure. According to Cannondale is passes strength tests that are 4 times tougher than their regular frames.

I was told the gemini (this was 2002/2003) wouldn't be a good bike for me...I am a big, not smooth freerider who wants to (and does) drops and dh.

Thats from the rep and a bike shop owner (who shortly after this dropped canondale for devinci). But no I have not test ridden one. The store owner wouldn't let me take a demo on the trail which is where I wanted to really test it.

The chase is gonna be tough :)

have you ridden the Gemini? That bike is indestructable!
funny, i just read a post on ridemonkey where the guy said he just broke his first frame... it was an '02 gemini. he said the swing arm cracked or something. don't get me wrong though, i'm not saying it's not a tough bike or anything, i just thought it was funny that you said that and i had just read about some guy breaking his.

That happens. the only bike I don't here a lot of breakages are Banshee and bighit. Otherwise all bikes have their fare share of online breakages :)...

Well maybe bmw and nicolai but they are really boutique :)

I would guess upwards of 2500$ if we go by typical pricing of a canondale. Their immediate markup of 25 to 50% for cost of their name. (2500 cdn btw). Real value of that bike on a similar frame would be about 1500cdn tops.

Very true. Commercialized companies (Cannondale, Specialized, Trek et al.) have to recover a lot of their advertising costs.

I don't think a lot of people realize just how much of what they pay are to cover incidental costs like advertising rather than the actual cost of the bike + markup.

I actually now prefer to support the "little guy": the smaller, more obscure specialty manufacturers whose bikes are designed or made in a small shop rather than a huge factory overseas. Their stuff is a bit more expensive but at least you're paying for a bike rather than their latest ad in Mountain Bike magazine.

Not to knock commercial companies who make decent bikes since I do enjoy my Specialized XC bike...

Very true. Commercialized companies (Cannondale, Specialized, Trek et al.) have to recover a lot of their advertising costs.

I don't think a lot of people realize just how much of what they pay are to cover incidental costs like advertising rather than the actual cost of the bike + markup.

I actually now prefer to support the "little guy": the smaller, more obscure specialty manufacturers whose bikes are designed or made in a small shop rather than a huge factory overseas. Their stuff is a bit more expensive but at least you're paying for a bike rather than their latest ad in Mountain Bike magazine.

Not to knock commercial companies who make decent bikes since I do enjoy my Specialized XC bike...

first of all your statement is pretty biased and contradictory since you say large companies have to recover a lot from their advertising costs, implying they overcharge for their equiptment. If this statement is true then why are they less expensive than "obscure specialty manufacturers?"

also you say you support the little guy but ride a bike from one of the largest bike companies on the planet.

third, all cannondale frames are handmade in the USA, not overseas in a huge factory.

where exactly are you getting this information?

Well.. the Gemini I rode was seriously beefy. You'd have to be majorly hardcore to break one. Cedric Gracia rides one, and if you've seen his pics from the Redbull competition you know that he's not exactly easy on the bike :o

http://www.kokophoto.com/2002races/Pictures/SO02MC_GraciaFlies.jpg

first of all your statement is pretty biased and contradictory since you say large companies have to recover a lot from their advertising costs, implying they overcharge for their equiptment. If this statement is true then why are they less expensive than "obscure specialty manufacturers?"

also you say you support the little guy but ride a bike from one of the largest bike companies on the planet.

third, all cannondale frames are handmade in the USA, not overseas in a huge factory.

where exactly are you getting this information?

Oh boy, here we go...

Let's not start a flame war, okay? But I'll answer some of your questions as succinctly as possible to clear up any confusion.

I never said anything about overcharging. I stated a fact and that is the cost of advertising (and other costs) are passed on to the consumer at the retail level whether it's bikes, cars, or running shoes. Also, the big bike companies' advertising budgets are obviously bigger compared to the smaller guys. Who do you think incurs higher advertising costs? Cannondale, or Ventana? Cannondale of course, and when you buy one of their bikes the cost of their annual advertising expenses has been factored into the cost of their bikes even before the retail mark-up. It's basic business 101.

I'm not one of those people who thinks advertising is evil. Advertising is a communications medium BUT it costs a lot of money and they have to recoup that. How do you think they recoup it?

I didn't mean to imply that the big manufacturer's products are inferior in anyway either. In fact, I think I said I enjoy my (big company) Specialized XC; which is hardly an insult. Sorry if my comments sounded condescending towards Cannondale or other of the more commercial bike companies. It's just that I now prefer to feed the smaller guys (who also make great stuff) and keep them afloat to insure they stay in business whereas Cannondale or Specialized aren't going to hurt from me not buying my next bike from them.

Nor did I say the big guys' stuff is more expensive. Please get your facts straight. It's common sense that the bigger commercial companies can make cheaper stuff due to economies of scale, efficiency, and since they probably get supplier discounts from Shimano and the like.

In fact, I clearly said that the smaller, specialty companies' stuff often costs more -- rather like the way your local hardware store's prices are typically higher than Wal-mart. Of course this isn't always the case. In Canada, bikes from U.S. based companies cost a whole lot more than the U.S. MSRP due to exchange rates, duties and taxes, shipping, (higher mark ups?) and other costs at the retail level so you sometimes get a better deal on a Canadian brand get better parts to boot. I think this is what Maelstrom was referring to.

So you're taking my message way out of context, if not just plain misquoting me. No offense, but please don't selectively choose sentences to rant about.

BTW, there's no contradiction in my words since the last bike I bought was a Canadian made Cove (www.covebike.com) which are made in smaller quantities when compared to the big boys. But make no mistake. I'm not dissing any other bikes or telling people NOT to buy certain brands. Freedom of choice I say...(please see my comments in the thread Don't be a Bike Snob).

Sorry if I didn't point that fact out, and if the, "I own a Specialized..." line confused you; but I do own more than one bike.

Also, I wasn't necessarily referring to Cannondale when I said "made overseas". It was a general statement as many manufacturers have their frames made elsewhere. Nor was it a hit against Made in Taiwan products. In fact, my Stumpjumper frame is made in Taiwan and the welds, fit and finish are close to flawless.

Finally, you bet my opinions are NOT unbiased. Nor are yours or anyone else's. They are just opinions which everyone is entitled to, but I hope people take them with a grain of salt.

I'm sorry if you misconstrued what I said and you were insulted, for whatever reason, but let's not start a flame war over it.

In the future, if you need clarification it would be preferable if you politely ask questions rather than abrupt tones or making challenges. Sorry if I sound defensive Copper RS but I sensed a bit of "trolling" in your reply.

How do you qualify the "Dude,no"? It's a bit vague. Do you mean:

NO, don't ever buy Cannondales; and if so why?



I have read that their customer service totally blows, I have read or heard about numerous cannnondales breaking. I am actually suprised at how how hard chase rides his bikes and they dont break, but I will still never own a cannondale. (Unless its a non freeride bike and given to me). Like maelstrom said (if he wasnt being sarcastic) cannondale wouldent want such a strong large man on one of their bikes, which is pretty sad.

The Gemini is nowhere near indestructable. Seen 3 of them break out of the 5 I have seen, 2 of the 3 were 2003's and they all broke at the same place. Cannondale released a few recalls to fix this problem, which they haven't. The Gemini is definately not indestructable, it is a very bad design, the design allows too much flex in the chainstays. They have the wrong idea, they are making a lightweight DH bike. Lightweight and DH/Freeride do not mix well at all. The Chase is not an all around freeride bike, it is an Urban, Dirtjump bike. And for the price of that bike, you can build a an Evil Imperial and have a pretty nice setup on it, and it would be a better parts spec.

Who cares if you break it.. it's got a lifetime warrantee!

Who cares if you break it.. it's got a lifetime warrantee!

Very limited as in if they don't feel like going forth with the warranty, they will claim abusive riding, something Cannondale is known for doing.

Well.. the Gemini I rode was seriously beefy. You'd have to be majorly hardcore to break one. Cedric Gracia rides one, and if you've seen his pics from the Redbull competition you know that he's not exactly easy on the bike :o

http://www.kokophoto.com/2002races/Pictures/SO02MC_GraciaFlies.jpg

I am not saying that cannondale or any other brand is fragile or not. But your statement is a bit fragile with cedric here.... pro-bikes dont count as strong or whatever...just because a pro can have and will have a new frame/fork/bike the next day he needs it and he wont have to care about stress on the frame. Normal riders like us care for a bike to last more than a few days. A pro doesnt. Cannondales are sweet looking to me....good attention to detail but i strongly dislike both the lefty and the headshock. Sometimes innovation is bad ...if overdone. Other than that...this new street ht looks nice...but i dont see any reason for someone getting it unless there is company loyalty. After all, a ht is a ht...nothing more nothing less...pick your material, your geometry and your company and you are done...

I have read that their customer service totally blows, I have read or heard about numerous cannnondales breaking. I am actually suprised at how how hard chase rides his bikes and they dont break, but I will still never own a cannondale. (Unless its a non freeride bike and given to me). Like maelstrom said (if he wasnt being sarcastic) cannondale wouldent want such a strong large man on one of their bikes, which is pretty sad.

Okay. Thanks for the info and clarification. Customer service and warranty is a big reason on why I buy what I buy.

But I guess I better reserve judgement until I personally ride a Cannondale. I've already been ranted on once on this thread from someone who took my -- what I thought were -- innocuous comments too personally. :o

Also Math to continue the point, pros don't ride stock bikes. They typically have them modified. And also even if they don't, for a good pro, replacement parts are easy to find ;)

Also Math to continue the point, pros don't ride stock bikes. They typically have them modified. And also even if they don't, for a good pro, replacement parts are easy to find ;)

Agreed, the point is that whatever bikes they ride....they dont care about breakages as long as the bike lasts the race/competition event.

i would also think that because they're pros, they're skilled and talented riders. using cedric gracia as an example... i think that guy is such an amazingly skilled and graceful rider. he's going to be a heck of a lot smoother on a bike than i probably will ever be - if i were going as big as he does at my present skill level, i'd probably snap any frame, and i'm only 150lbs (except for maybe that tank of a bike posted in the other thread about bikes for bigger riders, hahaha). and of course, most likely i'd probably snap a couple of times before i snap the frame.

I am not saying that cannondale or any other brand is fragile or not. But your statement is a bit fragile with cedric here.... pro-bikes dont count as strong or whatever...just because a pro can have and will have a new frame/fork/bike the next day he needs it and he wont have to care about stress on the frame. Normal riders like us care for a bike to last more than a few days. A pro doesnt. Cannondales are sweet looking to me....good attention to detail but i strongly dislike both the lefty and the headshock. Sometimes innovation is bad ...if overdone. Other than that...this new street ht looks nice...but i dont see any reason for someone getting it unless there is company loyalty. After all, a ht is a ht...nothing more nothing less...pick your material, your geometry and your company and you are done...



It's a little more complicated than just picking any stock hardtail. Not too many of the major brands are producing bikes that are capable of taking the abuse that the freerider hardtail riders are going to give it. You can't expect to just pick up a XC frame from a major retailer and thrash on it without it breaking. It's a purpose built frame. When I ride on the street I'm pretty hard on my gear, and I ride a Cannondale XC hardtail most of the time. I've had no problems with the frame whatsoever, and if this urban hardtail is rated to be 4 times stronger I'm sure it's going to be beefy.

Why are cannondale praised for the frame manufactor then? Dont they pride themselves on saying that the frames are totally hand welded? I spose you can have a bad batch because of simple human error..... So this argument is pretty pointless as you have nothing to go on...


Please dont hurt me :P

so does anybody actually know how much the bike is going to cost? I'm looking for a urban hardtail and if the Chase is in my range it'l be my first choice. I've owed cannondale's in the past and i'd buy another if i could afford it. My hardtail has been just abused for the last 6 years and its still solid. personally i think the higher price cannondale charges is worth the money, their bikes are at least as dependable as anything i've ever ridden.

I haven't seen any price ranges on the hardtail yet, but to be honest I haven't done any other investigation other than some magazine ads and looking at their website.

Ah, I found a price. Looks like 1099 USD. Actually not a bad deal for the bike in my opinion. I wouldn't hesitate to thrash on it, either.

http://www.pinkbike.com/modules/news/?op=articleview&id=1760

They have a pretty dope singlespeed out as well.

http://www.pinkbike.com/photo/pbpic134441.jpg

1100usd is a good price.I am impressed even more now :) Don't need one but that is on par with other mid range street/djers :)

There's really not a whole lot to it if you think about it. The parts spec isn't insanely high end, which is a good thing to most people who really thrash on their bike. High dollar componentry doesn't belong on a bike like that.

For the price it is in the Uk you can get a good proven frame with a good warrenty and spec every componant yourself for not a great ammount more.

Oh, I know I could BUILD a better hardtail freerider for the money. I could probably pick up a Snipes Elemental and throw much better componentry on it, but for an out of the box bike I think it's a pretty reasonable price.

1100usd is a good price.I am impressed even more now :)

For $1200 or less you can get a 2004 P3, it absolutely blows that cannondale out of the water. I would also choose a bighit over any of those gemini's.

P3:
20mm
Doubletracks
Dirtjumper II
Holzfeller cranks
Xt rear derailleur
Lx front derailleur
Hayes Hydro's

Chase:
Quick release
Mavic rims it
Dirtjumper III
Hussefelt cranks
Lx rear derailleur
Alivio front derailleur
Avid Mech's

Plus that price is a high end price