Touring - Mudguards/fenders - why?

I notice in many threads, people ask about a bike for touring, and the immediate response is "put a rack and mudguards on it, and it will be great". Why mudguards? I don't think I've ever had a bike with them, and don't think I've ever wanted them. Although I've ridden in ridiculously heavy rain (at one point wearing full ski gear, including goggles :)) I've never had to tour in it. Yes, your gear gets muddy. Yes, you can get sprayed a bit - but is avoiding that minor inconvenience really worth the weight, cost, rattliness, reduced toe clearance etc?

I'm trying to reduce the number of accessories to buy for my bike. If I get talked back into them, so be it. :)

(I suspect I'm biased against mudguards because I always associate them with rusty old city bikes, going clang-clang every time they hit a pothole...)

Steve

IMHO
No need for them at all!!!
Unless you ride in a group and then the person behind gets a faceful. But then you can ride at the back of the group and get the draft with a clear conscious,

that you are there for the benefit of you fellow riders

clean your bike at the end of rides to remove the mud and grime. befor it dries on ( like mine is)

george

I wouldn't setup a bike [other than perhaps a racing rig or MTB] without them. If you want to be splashed with grimy/dirty water while you ride that's cool. I don't. Clearly you can ride a bike in the rain without fenders so it isn't essential - just a personal choice.

Proper fender installation [ie. full coverage w/ mudflaps] will keep your drive train cleaner and keep you more comfortable plus cleaner. So it does have benefits.

If you haven't noticed any use for them so far perhaps it isn't something you need to worry about???

Also, because it never rains in Australia anymore :( Interesting point about the dirty drivetrain - maybe a simple flap on the downtube would do the job?

Steve

The fenders I have on my commuting rig are plastic and really quite light. They don't rattle, and they keep the filthy road-water down near the road. It's true that in Melbourne there isn't often road-water in these days of drought, but nevertheless, riding behind another commuter in the morning and having to dodge their rooster-tail of yuck never fails to put me in a bad mood.

As to touring, it's really just a matter of keeping things cleaner. If for A$55 and 700g I can avoid that extra bit of mess on my bike, my jersey, my shoes, my socks, my rear lights, my panniers and my wife (who's usually right behind me), then I say it's worth it. : )

[edit: The A$55 is exactly what I paid for the fenders, the 700g was a guesstimate - before anyone asks me to prove it! :)]

Besides keeping you cleaner they do a marvelous job of preventing your front wheel from throwing crap into your drivetrain.. the lifespan of the drive and parts on my fendered bikes far exceeds that of those without them and the drivetrain tends to require much less cleaning.

My drivetrain is a Rholoff hub based, so the chain does not move up and down casettes or chain rings.

chains last over 3000 miles ( I have an ecentric BB, like on a tandem) to take up chain slack

But mudguards are lot cheaper than a Rohloff LOL

george

What about the rear mudguard? Once you have a rack mounted, does it keep stuff out of the cassette at all? I'm trying to picture it and thinking that it mainly protects people behind you?

Steve

I'm also of the opinion that fenders/mudguards are not as essential as you'd think. In some ways I think people put them on just to make the bike look more touring hard core rather than for what they offer.

However, my touring bikes have fenders....why? I really dislike cycling in the rain, and the first time I was on tour on a bike without fenders and the heavens opened up, I decided right there and then that having them was worth it for me. Sure not having them won't stop you from touring, but having them in a downpour is much, much, nicer!

Disadvantages: cost, another component, makes bike harder to transport when breaking down (e.g. if you take the front wheel off, the fender is then exposed, packing in a case, you'll probably need to take them off and then reinstall.) In a torrential or prolonged downpour, you just have to accept you're going to get wet no matter what so having them in that case is no real advantage. Probably less aerodynamic.

Advantages: will keep you drier in short periods of rain, or when there is water on the surface. Really light weight and once on you can usually forget about them. Look the business on touring bikes. May protect your drivechain a little better.

Actually looking at my list, it seems that you really shouldn't bother -but I still like the advantages they offer when there is rain, and when the surface is wet. They're huge advantages to me.


I notice in many threads, people ask about a bike for touring, and the immediate response is "put a rack and mudguards on it, and it will be great". Why mudguards?

Steve

I avoid riding in the rain as much as practical, but on tour it's not all that practical.

If the forecast projects an all day rain, I take a motel day, (if possible). In spotty weather, I will sit-out a shower under any piece of cover I can find, as soon as it stops, I'm off. Without fenders, I would get just as wet as if I just rode in the rain, but with fenders, I'll stay dry. I would not have a touring bike without them.

On days when you have to ride in the rain, fenders still help. It's one thing to just get wet, it's another to be wet and dirty. All that road grime gets flung all over you and your bike.

If you have issues with fenders rattling, put rubber washers or "O" rings between all the connecting points. Also using "Workable" Loc-tite on the bolts is a good idea.

[QUOTE=gregw;6540520]
It's one thing to just get wet, it's another to be wet and dirty. All that road grime gets flung all over you and your bike.
QUOTE]


X2 And they look good, all our bikes have them.

Not a necessity, but they can be nice if it is wet where you ride. You can stay a lot drier with them than without. Also if you ride pace line at all while touring they are a big plus for the guy drafting you. I have them on my touring bike and feel they are worth using for me and where/when I ride.

If you don't think keeping excess rain, mud and ***** off your face, chest and back is worth it, then there is no reason at all to have them.

I've found that my feet/shoes stay a lot drier with fenders/mudguards. I'm not talking torrential downpours, but having to go through unavoidable puddles and the standing water after a good rain. I'm a big fan of keeping my feet dry as much as possible. Just my .02.

Besides keeping you cleaner they do a marvelous job of preventing your front wheel from throwing crap into your drivetrain.. the lifespan of the drive and parts on my fendered bikes far exceeds that of those without them and the drivetrain tends to require much less cleaning.

http://bp0.blogger.com/_vUEhS0lU3eU/R-BXLWpBdSI/AAAAAAAAEmY/6Ev57uqarL8/s400/sherpa+PB+fenders+1.JPG

Just a point about keeping your drive train clean - you need full coverage fenders with a long mudflap on the front. The pic of my Thorn Sherpa above shows some decent fenders, but when the front mudflap wears out I'll replace it with an even longer DIY version. I put the same fenders on my new Rohloff bike - sure that drive train can handle more dirt/less maintenance, but it will also last longer if you keep it clean.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_vUEhS0lU3eU/R9lOUWpBdBI/AAAAAAAAEkM/n7O7YR1mD7U/s400/bd+front+%26+rear+fenders+sm.JPG

I spent a lot of time riding my Bike Friday Tikit (http://www.viks-tikit.com) around town this winter. Because of the fenders I could wear regular street clothes and meet up with friends and not be filthy. The other nice thing was when I got home I just let the snow/slush melt from the fenders and I could bring a clean bike into my apartment for storage.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_vUEhS0lU3eU/SAalY1GqgII/AAAAAAAAE2k/bcG5fynCUJs/s400/Fujin+Sunrise.jpg

Even my go fast bike (http://thelazyrandonneur.blogspot.com/2008/04/strathmore-200k-ride-report.html) has full fenders.

The only bike I own that doesn't have fenders is my MTB. I generally don't ride it in the rain/wet [destroys the trails] so I don't see the value. The rest of my bikes I want to be able to ride anytime and in particular I want to be able to ride them in the rain and turn up for dinner looking normal. Not to mention I hate cleaning my bikes!

Although I am a big fender fan I am not suggesting they are anything, but optional. Like a cycle computer, helmet, SPD pedals, kickstand, etc... you don't need any of these items to ride a bike, but each one offers some functionality if you want to use it.

To the OP...ride your bike in the rain next time you have the chance. If t doesn't bother you not having fenders just put the matter right out of your mind.

Fenders save the drive train, my clothes, my gear.
They also keep nasty tar blobs off the bike and my gear. I hate tar on the bike.
These Planet bike Cascadia's were $24. Took minutes to mount and I can ride to work without getting covered in road filth if it rains.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b400/fj40/DSC02385.jpg

If you don't think keeping excess rain, mud and ***** off your face, chest and back is worth it, then there is no reason at all to have them.

+1

I don't like muddy swamp butt. Nor do I like looking like I pooped my pants. I also don't like road grime in my mouth, eyes, nose, etc... We have this thing in certain areas called "winter", puffy frozen water falls from the sky and these big trucks come and put really nasty salty dirt on all the roads to melt the frozen stuff which then gets everywhere when you bike through it, unless you have fenders.

Fender fan. As someone else said, I don't ride in the rain if I can avoid it. I will ride afterwards, though. I don't like road water spitting in my face, I don't like skunk stripes on my butt and back and if there's gear on the rear rack—it stays clean. Aside from the cleaner drive-train, bike, etc.—they look way good. I'm fairly shallow like that.

Incidentally, that's a fine looking ride you have there ricohman.

I recently picked up a set of Cascadias for my Thorn--love the coverage and the look. Very sturdy too. I'll post some pictures this weekend.

:lol: @ "swamp butt"

I rode for years without fenders, and suffered the usual indignities of getting dirty and dealing with a gritty drivetrain. It wasn't the end of the world.

I have fenders now, and confess that I find them a bit of a nuisance. They are perpetually going out of alignment and rubbing up against the wheels. They are not the easiest things to adjust either, I find.

But overall, the positives outweigh the negatives. Although I do not regard fenders as essential, they are a nice luxury. They make touring much more pleasant when roads are sloppy.

Also a fender fan. One thing no one has talked about is animal dung. Most states mandate cyclists use the MUP when available. which are always covered with dung from dogs and animals. Theres nothing worse to accidentally roll through it and have it sling up on everything, especially your water bottles.

It isnt the rain that is the problem but the stuff on the road.

I have always used fenders while touring on and off road. This choice was reinforced vividly on one tour.

I was approaching Quito, Ecuador from Columbia in a heavy rain when I started hearing sharp noises from something hitting the fenders as I rode. The noise was from discarded hypodermic needles scattered along the road shoulder for mile after mile and picked up by my tires.

I really appreciated my fenders even more than for just keeping me and my drive chain clean and dry.

I have fenders now, and confess that I find them a bit of a nuisance. They are perpetually going out of alignment and rubbing up against the wheels. They are not the easiest things to adjust either, I find.

What kind of fenders are you using? I've had some SKS fenders on my LHT for 2yrs+ and haven't had to adjust or mess with them once. They are dead easy to install and adjust.

What kind of fenders are you using? I've had some SKS fenders on my LHT for 2yrs+ and haven't had to adjust or mess with them once. They are dead easy to install and adjust.

Same here.
I haven't had to adjust any of my fenders after installing them. The polycarbonate flexes so it can never get bent into the tire.

I'm in the wet PNW and for me no fenders mean either no riding or very cold, wet, and uncomfortable rides. For my tour bike I have fenders as I spend more time on this bike and require more "comfort" when riding it for long periods but for my commuter bike I don't have fenders (partly because they would be very difficult to put on my vintage Olmo) because of this I don't ride it much but in the summer and the rare dry day the rest of the year.

I'm also of the opinion that fenders/mudguards are not as essential as you'd think. In some ways I think people put them on just to make the bike look more touring hard core rather than for what they offer.

However, my touring bikes have fenders....why? I really dislike cycling in the rain, and the first time I was on tour on a bike without fenders and the heavens opened up, I decided right there and then that having them was worth it for me. Sure not having them won't stop you from touring, but having them in a downpour is much, much, nicer!

Disadvantages: cost, another component, makes bike harder to transport when breaking down (e.g. if you take the front wheel off, the fender is then exposed, packing in a case, you'll probably need to take them off and then reinstall.) In a torrential or prolonged downpour, you just have to accept you're going to get wet no matter what so having them in that case is no real advantage. Probably less aerodynamic.

Advantages: will keep you drier in short periods of rain, or when there is water on the surface. Really light weight and once on you can usually forget about them. Look the business on touring bikes. May protect your drivechain a little better.

Actually looking at my list, it seems that you really shouldn't bother -but I still like the advantages they offer when there is rain, and when the surface is wet. They're huge advantages to me.

I agree with some of the things you've said but I'll add that if I'm riding in rain, I have a rain suit on. If I'm touring, I have tent and sleeping bag mounted on the rear rack anyway so they keep the rain off my back (I wrap them in water proof stuff sacks and then put plastic bags over them in the rain). And, if you are riding in the rain, fenders will only keep the drivetrain dry and clean for a little while. Mine still ends up getting dirty anyway.

And, finally, if it gets too bad, I'll take the day off;)

Mud, dairy cattle crossings, other dung piles, and reduced brake pad dust cover especially on stuff to go in a tent. That dust mixed with water, is the eptiome of grime. If there is an under-down-tube water bottle, it will stay much cleaner. In France last year when it was wet, the mudguards were a useful defence against slug guts, too -- these very large muscly things that you couldn't avoid running over.

I usually go the full dork with longish flaps, as well. The front one helps stop stones chipping the downtube paintwork and reduced water splash on to shoes and the drivetrain. The rear one makes life slightly more comfortable for a touring partner riding close behind on wet roads.

I personally find mudgards keep me a little warmer. Sounds silly but a wet bum makes me cold quite quickly.

Fenders aren't useless.

Ride under rain with fenders => you're wet.
Ride under rain without fenders => you're twice as wet, and dirty

Fenders aren't useless.

Ride under rain with fenders => you're wet.
Ride under rain without fenders => you're twice as wet, and dirty

Actually, I wasn't done. So I'll repost:

Fenders aren't useless.

Ride while it's raining:
With mud-guards => you're wet, but clean
Without mud-guards => you're twice as wet, and dirty

Ride after it rained
With mud-guards => you're dry
Without mud-guards => you're wet, and dirty.

To say that fenders are useless is to say that you don't mind being wet and dirty. Personally, I prefer staying as dry as possible.

Also, sometimes, like for commuting, being dirty isn't an valid option. Granted, if you commute 30 miles to work, you'll probably want to take a shower before hitting the desk...

To the OP...ride your bike in the rain next time you have the chance. If t doesn't bother you not having fenders just put the matter right out of your mind.

Strangely enough I plan to do this. Last time it rained when I was about to commute, I decided to ride anyway to decide if I'm still tough enough to do it ;) That was on my MTB (no mudguards). The rain on my face and bare hands was bothering me a lot more than the spray. I'll have a go on my new bike, and probably end up saving the mudguard money for something else.

Steve

+1

We have this thing in certain areas called "winter", puffy frozen water falls from the sky and these big trucks come and put really nasty salty dirt on all the roads to melt the frozen stuff

This is probably the big difference. It just doesn't rain much here, and never snows. The chance of it raining around the time I want to commute is probably less than 1 in 20. If it does rain, it tends not to puddle for very long. So the conditions many posters describe of wet roads etc are probably much more frequent for them than me.

(yay drought)

Steve

Oh I'm with you there! One thing I really dislike is cycling in the rain -probably more so if I *know* I have to. Call me a lightweight cyclotourer, but I avoid cycling in the rain as much as possible -I don't find it enjoyable and since that's what touring is about for me, why do it?


I agree with some of the things you've said but I'll add that if I'm riding in rain, I have a rain suit on. If I'm touring, I have tent and sleeping bag mounted on the rear rack anyway so they keep the rain off my back (I wrap them in water proof stuff sacks and then put plastic bags over them in the rain). And, if you are riding in the rain, fenders will only keep the drivetrain dry and clean for a little while. Mine still ends up getting dirty anyway.

And, finally, if it gets too bad, I'll take the day off;)

Oh I'm with you there! One thing I really dislike is cycling in the rain -probably more so if I *know* I have to. Call me a lightweight cyclotourer, but I avoid cycling in the rain as much as possible -I don't find it enjoyable and since that's what touring is about for me, why do it?

On tour you may be faced with several days of rain. If you have the time and patience to sit that out I suppose you can avoid the worst of it. My touring bikes are also bikes I ride around town in aid of my lifestyle so I need to be able to ride when it is raining, has rained or the streets are wet from rain or snow.

I too prefer to ride when it is dry - preferably sunny, but limiting myself to those occasions would make my bicycles much less useful - not to mention it does rain when you went out for a ride and didn't expect it to.

I have to admit I do envy those folks who in placed where it doesn't rain for months at a time!

Why? Because many years ago I rode from Boston through sandy and rainy Vermont to Montreal on my no-fenders Raleigh. The sandy road grit was thrown up by the tires, infested my shorts, crotch and upper thighs, and by the time I hit Montreal I was quite raw. Never again. A pair of lightweight Bluemels later, I was much happier. All my bikes now have mudguards.

A couple of other reasons:

Protection of Brooks and other leather saddles from saturation on the underside.

Preventing water from the rear wheel making its way down open-topped seat posts to sit in and corrode the bottom bracket shell (unless there is a drain hole).

Toilet paper - why?

I have to agree with cyco, I do not use fenders on any of my bikes. Unless you count my rear rack. I just don't buy into the comments that I can ride in the rain and be dry. No way. Even when I put on my rain gear I end up wet, either from the rain or from sweat. I don't mind at all. Nor do I buy that I am going to be dirtier without fenders. But that is just my opinion. If I really thought my bike or my Brooks could not suffer a complete drenching, I would not have it.

Then we all agree... to disagree.

Its a personal choice.

george

Nor do I buy that I am going to be dirtier without fenders. But that is just my opinion.

Holy crap! You need to borrow some fenders and give it a try!

I put fenders on my first touring bike because people told me I should put fenders on my touring bike. I really wasn't convinced about how effective they were until I was bike commuting, and so was fairly regularly caught in the rain, or riding on recently rained on roads. I was using an old mountain bike and was just getting covered with sand and mud until I put on the fenders. The difference is pretty dramatic. The bike still gets dirty, and my feet seem to be unprotected from the road spray, but it's a much better experience with fenders on.

I would bet that the fender opinion is highly correlated with the region where you live. We are having an amazingly dry spring here in New England, but that's pretty exceptional. Usually if you aren't willing to risk getting rained on (starting a ride when the sky looks iffy) you wouldn't be doing a lot of riding. Fenders work well enough to make that choice a little easier.

If where you live, it usually dry, then I can see giving fenders a pass. But if you are thinking of traveling somewhere a bit soggier, fenders are worth having!

Speedo

Another fender fan. Both the Bianchi and Magneet have them - nice generic plastics on the former, elegant beaten aluminum Hondos on the latter. Did that one as much for looks as function.

Besides the above mentioned advantages, they hold one more for me: I ride every morning, a 10 mile loop before work while the coffee brews - unless it's raining, of course. This means, even if the road is still wet from a recently passed through rain front. At that point, either of the tourers comes out automatically. I'm on too tight a schedule for a full shower when I get back.

Oh yeah, fenders have never bothered me when trailering a bike - I use a pickup truck with a fork rack at the front of the bed. Unfortunately, I recently put a front bag rack on the Bianchi, at which point I made the truck rack useless for that bike.

A bike without fenders looks naked to me. Plus I live in Vancouver, BC where it rains ALOT! I also think a bike with fenders "looks" better -- I know a matter of personal preference. All my bikes have fenders.

Addendum to post #42:

It's been an incredibly wet, miserable weekend in the Richmond area, yesterday was a complete downpour and my riding was limited to a few incredibly boring miles on the trainer :cry:. Today was more of the same, only the rain would start and stop, the roads would almost dry off, and the rain would start again.

Late this afternoon, it seemed to finally quit. The weather radar looked hopeful, so I grabbed the Bianchi, tossed on my rain jacket, and decided to do a quick 15 mile loop. Either that, or back to the trainer :cry::cry::cry:.

All went well until I hit the turnaround point, and of course I run into this wall of water that was moving from the direction from where I'm heading. I get about a mile of downpour (the rain jacket worked just fine, I don't care if my legs get a bit dampened), and then I've still got a good six miles of soaked, messy road ahead of me.

At which point, the thought occurred to me:

Would somebody please explain the concept that mudguards are OPTIONAL on a touring bike? :eek:

I don't mind wet. I hate wet and filthy.

Nor do I buy that I am going to be dirtier without fenders. But that is just my opinion.it's not really an "opinion" thing as it's actually a "fact" thing.
properly-installed fenders keep riders cleaner & drier when riding on wet pavement.

Feathers my friend,
Good post, precise and to the point. Let’s see, “opinions” and “facts.” Sounds like the old TV detective: “Nothing but the facts Mam.” Unfortunately, facts aren’t always facts. As a current TV personality says: “I reject your reality and substitute my own.”

I also ride a motorcycle which has big, full coverage fenders, large windshield and lowers, etc. I have gotten dirtier riding that on a clear day when a passing car ran over a bloated armadillo which exploded all over me, than ever I have riding my bicycle in the rain. I do not commute so your experiences and mine are somewhat different. I am trying to understand where the ironclad fact of dirtiness comes from since I don’t find riding my bicycle in the rain so dirty. It doesn’t really matter because I certainly respect your facts and am sure that you have a cool bike which fulfills all of your requirements.

Cheers.

I also ride a motorcycle which has big, full coverage fenders, large windshield and lowers, etc. I have gotten dirtier riding that on a clear day when a passing car ran over a bloated armadillo which exploded all over me, than ever I have riding my bicycle in the rain.that makes 100% complete sense. an animal exploding beneath nearby automobile tires and splashing against your chest @ 50 m.p.h. would be VERY messy while riding a motorcycle. yuck!


I am trying to understand where the ironclad fact of dirtiness comes from since I don’t find riding my bicycle in the rain so dirty.you must have remarkably clean roads where you reside. most people who ride on rainsoaked streets without fenders will observe black/gray splotches on their riding garments and even a grimy stripe up their back. glad it's different for you. :beer:

A bike without fenders looks naked to me. Plus I live in Vancouver, BC where it rains ALOT! I also think a bike with fenders "looks" better -- I know a matter of personal preference. All my bikes have fenders.

Hmm. Not sure what to say to that. For me, a "good looking" bike is just a liability.

Steve

Why mudguards?

Even with full fenders, the front wheel throws some dirty stuff on the bottom bracket. With a front mudguard that drops to about 50 mm off ground, the bottom bracket stays clean and lasts longer, the chain stays fairly clean... and my feet stay dry unless there is a downpour.

On the other hand, there is no need for a rear mudguard, unless you ride in packs or want to protect a child on a trailercycle or in a trailer.

http://www.ravingbikefiend.com/bikepics/forrestfender.jpg

We had over a foot of snow and now it's starting to melt... those fenders will keep me cleaner and drier, keep sand and crud out of the drivetrain, and keep the back wheel from flinging crap all over me and my new saddle.

That, and they make the bike.