Student arrested during Minneapolis CM found Not Guilty

[tinydr]

This post once contained information, the author has chosen to remove it: web 2.0 is a *****.

[brotherj]

He ought to see about getting perjury charges filed against the police and sue the city for false arrest. This is totally unacceptable in America that the police can assault anyone they want, arrest them, force them to appear in court then lie about the basic facts of the case and totally get away with it.

This sounds like Nazi Germany reincarnate! I am totally outraged!

[zeytoun]

Grass roots surveillance will be the end of lying tyrants.

[Bikepacker67]

All three little piggies perjured themselves.
But of course, they'd have to sprout wings before they'd ever be charged.

[SingingSabre]

All three little piggies perjured themselves.
But of course, they'd have to sprout wings before they'd ever be charged.

While I agree the police were extremely out of line, I find it offensive that you refer to them as "piggies."

Congrats to Mr Ganely on his not guilty verdict!

[TiberiusBTkirk]

I seem to recall raw unedited video footage proved the innocence of another
CM arrest in NYC. I hope it did, it was on the NY Times website some time ago.
The police provided an edited copy of the footage to the defendant but
the defense found an original uncut copy.

[Bikepacker67]

I find it offensive that you refer to them as "piggies."


Too bad they so often live up to the moniker.

[jamesdenver]

This sounds like Nazi Germany reincarnate!

The passion is appreciated. But it's a lot different.

[genec]

Grass roots surveillance will be the end of lying tyrants.

Kinda weird eh, just the opposite of the "warnings" of the book 1984. So far "the net" (blogs) and ubiquitous surveillance, seem to have helped democratic society, vice trap it.

George Orwell failed to foresee that the cameras "look both ways."

[Daily Commute]

. . . This sounds like Nazi Germany reincarnate! I am totally outraged!
I don't remember the Gestapo giving people they arrested fair trials before fair juries. They would have figured out which cyclists were Jews, murdered them, and then murdered their families. The non-Jewish resisters might have "only" faced a slow death in a concentration camp.

The cops here were thugs, but they were not Nazis. Don't demean the evil that was the Holocaust by comparing it to such relatively petty abuses.

[Bikepacker67]

The cops here were thugs, but they were not Nazis. Don't demean the evil that was the Holocaust by comparing it to such relatively petty abuses.

While I agree that comparing the actions of these POS with the Nazis is pure hyperbole, I'd hardly call perjury by those sworn to uphold the law, in order to convict an innocent man to prison qualifies as petty abuse.


Again, WTF aren't these "officers" (using the term as loose as a $2 wh0re) being brought up on charges of lying during sworn testimony?

[wheel]

task force was created to monitor the August 31 Critical Mass ride, which included three traffic enforcement officers, three intelligence officers in unmarked cars, and two officers in a state patrol helicopter.

Wow really they need all that for a CM ride? How much did that cost?

As for the people lying on the stand I hope charges are filed at once.

[Bikepacker67]

As for the people lying on the stand I hope charges are filed at once.

Ya right.
Greased pigs have nothing on these oinkers.

(ya... that's right SingingSabre, I'm sick and tired of those tasked to "Serve and Protect" running around tasering folks for minor infractions and lying on the stand to cover their ample, donut-fed asses)

[Dchiefransom]

task force was created to monitor the August 31 Critical Mass ride, which included three traffic enforcement officers, three intelligence officers in unmarked cars, and two officers in a state patrol helicopter.

Wow really they need all that for a CM ride? How much did that cost?

As for the people lying on the stand I hope charges are filed at once.

From the article, they don't need that many resources to cover CM, which is what the article said. They were there because another group joined the ride that they felt they needed to watch. CM seemed to be doing fine with just one officer following along.

[Daily Commute]

While I agree that comparing the actions of these POS with the Nazis is pure hyperbole, I'd hardly call perjury by those sworn to uphold the law, in order to convict an innocent man to prison qualifies as petty abuse.

Compared to murdering six million Jews (and starting a war that killed 100 million others), the abuse in this case was petty. Brotherj was the one who made the Nazi analogy, not me.

[mike]

He ought to see about getting perjury charges filed against the police and sue the city for false arrest. This is totally unacceptable in America that the police can assault anyone they want, arrest them, force them to appear in court then lie about the basic facts of the case and totally get away with it.

This sounds like Nazi Germany reincarnate! I am totally outraged!

+1 For too long, police officers have been blindly applauded for being "heroes". We have definately seen a swing toward a violent police force that feels they can bully, lie, beat, abuse, and perjure themselves with impunity.

[mike]

Compared to murdering six million Jews (and starting a war that killed 100 million others), the abuse in this case was petty. Brotherj was the one who made the Nazi analogy, not me.

The Nazi didn't start out killing millions of Jews. It started with the German people too lazy or too apathetic to do anything against the nazi's small abuses while the abuses were still small.

Pretty soon, the people were too frightened to do or say anything against the Nazi.

Before long, the people were nearly powerless to do anything against the Nazi and the crimes being done were out of control. By that time, Lucifer was dancing with delight at a new level of inhumanity.

[Daily Commute]

The Nazi didn't start out killing millions of Jews. It started with the German people too lazy or too apathetic to do anything against the nazi's small abuses while the abuses were still small.

Pretty soon, the people were too frightened to do or say anything against the Nazi.

Before long, the people were nearly powerless to do anything against the Nazi and the crimes being done were out of control and Lucifer was dancing with delight at a new level of inhumanity.
This guy was acquitted after a fair trial in front of a fair jury. That ain't the start of a decent into a Nazi state.

[mike]

This guy was acquitted after a fair trial in front of a fair jury. That ain't the start of a decent into a Nazi state.

When you have the police beating innocent people and lying in the courts, THAT IS the decent into a Nazi state.

[El Julioso]

This guy was acquitted after a fair trial in front of a fair jury. That ain't the start of a decent into a Nazi state.

There's nothing "fair" about a court which won't convict police officers for perjury and assault. What you seem to be forgetting is that it shouldn't have been the CM rider on trial in the first place - it should have been the police officers on trial. They had NOTHING on him but lies, while he had nearly a dozen eye witnesses and video evidence on them.

If I were to, for no good reason, mace you, beat the crap out of you, take you to court, claim under oath that you assaulted me, then subsequently be shown to be a liar due to video evidence, would you not want me brought up on charges? Would you not be able to successfully sue me?

I think people need to divorce the definitions of "Nazism" and "Fascism" in their minds. Nazis are fascists, but fascists aren't necessarily Nazis. A nation with a legal system which allows certain people to be above the law does indeed exhibit one of the markings of fascism. (other markings of fascism include enormous military spending, repression of civil liberties, and rampant nationalism, by the way).

[Daily Commute]

I don't know if you realize how much harm you do to cyclist advocacy when you make specious Nazi analogies. Do you know if the victim sued the cops? I don't. People sue cops all the time, and they win those suits whenever they can convince a jury of non-cops that the cops acted illegally. That's far, far, far away from being a Nazi (or even a pre-Nazi) state.

[tinydr]

edited

[Daily Commute]

the idea that the criminal justice system is fair is a nice thought, but shortsighted.
Remember, this guy won his case. The US system clearly isn't perfect, but we do as good a job of holding the powerful accountable as anyone.

[tinydr]

edited.......

[mconlonx]

Remember, this guy won his case. The US system clearly isn't perfect, but we do as good a job of holding the powerful accountable as anyone.

Wrong. The powerful were not being held accountable here, the person whose rights they violated was. If they are ever held accountable, chances are they will get away with it. A friend of mine has been fighting for his rights, trying to get the "Justice" System to hold those in power accountable for their illegal actions. So far it's taken him 6 years and he's nowhere near done yet. Yes, he got off of the false charges leveled against him (with predjudice the second time around...) but all efforts to hold those in power accountable for their actions have met with legal barriers every step of the way.

www.checkpointusa.org (Check the "TOPD Roadblock" link in the menu on the left for details)

Now what was that again, about how the system holds those in power accountable for their illegal actions?

[Daily Commute]

Wrong. The powerful were not being held accountable here, the person whose rights they violated was. If they are ever held accountable, chances are they will get away with it. A friend of mine has been fighting for his rights, trying to get the "Justice" System to hold those in power accountable for their illegal actions. So far it's taken him 6 years and he's nowhere near done yet. Yes, he got off of the false charges leveled against him (with predjudice the second time around...) but all efforts to hold those in power accountable for their actions have met with legal barriers every step of the way.

www.checkpointusa.org (Check the "TOPD Roadblock" link in the menu on the left for details)

Now what was that again, about how the system holds those in power accountable for their illegal actions?

OK, name a country with a better (or less bad) system of holding the powerful accountable. We aren't perfect, but people do sue the police and win. Part of the problem is that some of the claims against cops are lies, so the system has to try to sort the truthful claims from the dishonest or mistaken ones. Some truthful claims get rejected in the process.

Another part of the problem is people who assume that an innocent person winning at trial is a sign of an impending Nazi state. That makes it hard to take them seriously.

We have a civilian jury trial in both civil and criminal cases, so what other specific solutions to the system do you propose?

[goldfishin]

he only won it because he was lucky enough to have that video.

[Bikepacker67]

This guy was acquitted after a fair trial in front of a fair jury.

With three officers perjuring themselves in the process.
If this poor bastahd hadn't had video documentation (unlike 99.99% of arrests) to refute the lies told by those responsible for upholding the law, he very well could be serving a year or so in county jail.

That is truly 4cked up.

[slagjumper]

Sounds like perjury, and assault, with a bit of conspiracy, thrown in after the fact. For law enforcement to stoop to this level, over a bunch of punks is sad. This is much worse than the reasonably well deserved verbal jibes likening their behavior to leather boot-loving, Lugar cleaning, closeted, fascists or domesticated swine.

Next time the cops will be more careful before beating the crap out of a teenaged rabble-rouser. Note that they broke the young hero's glasses. Surely is a case where calmness on the part of the cops would have been the best. Perhaps they should use female officers when monitoring CM. They handle situations like these, much better. While there is no talk of 'roids, I think that a drug test would be in order. I'd suggest that captains of our proud country’s municipal police forces insist on surveillance from one of those cool new Homeland Security vehicles, whenever they "monitor" other CMs this summer. Surly that surveillance would help keep their officers in line and help to avoid embarrassing press conferences and costly litigation.

--
Officer Craig Williams, the final prosecution witness, was one of the officers who responded to the call for help. He testified that after eluding Officer Lillard, Ganley “squared up with me and swung at my left shoulder, then attempted to flee before being placed under arrest.”
…
When asked if he grabbed anyone during the incident or used mace on anyone, Lillard denied it.
…
Video evidence showed that Williams was one of the officers who wrestled Ganley to the ground, but that the assault that he described did not occur. About ten seconds elapsed between the moment Ganley was grabbed and maced by Lillard, and the time he was tackled by three officers. Williams is not visible in the video until Ganley is being taken to the ground. Photographs show Ganley being grabbed and later lying on his back holding his glasses, which broke during the encounter.

[jamesdenver]

I don't know if you realize how much harm you do to cyclist advocacy when you make specious Nazi analogies. Do you know if the victim sued the cops? I don't. People sue cops all the time, and they win those suits whenever they can convince a jury of non-cops that the cops acted illegally. That's far, far, far away from being a Nazi (or even a pre-Nazi) state.

I can't stand it when people throw around the term "Nazi" left and right. "My building manager is such a Nazi!" or "That nazi b-tch clerk at 7-11 won't give me change"

I'd love it if people would stop using the word Nazi to describe anyone who's a bit of a hard ass or dick - unless they happen to be past or present day true Nazis.

danke.

[jamesdenver]

I don't know if you realize how much harm you do to cyclist advocacy when you make specious Nazi analogies. Do you know if the victim sued the cops? I don't. People sue cops all the time, and they win those suits whenever they can convince a jury of non-cops that the cops acted illegally. That's far, far, far away from being a Nazi (or even a pre-Nazi) state.

I can't stand it when people throw around the term "Nazi" left and right. "My building manager is such a Nazi!" or "That nazi b-tch clerk at 7-11 won't give me change"

I'd love it if people would stop using the word Nazi to describe anyone who's a bit of a hard ass or dick - unless they happen to be past or present day true Nazis. It's offensive to our world history and dilutes what a true Nazi really is/was.

danke.

[jamesdenver]

as you can see I'm so bothered by that I posted it twice.

[murphstahoe]

They aren't Nazi's, they are COPS. Say what you want about the tenets of national socialism, but at least it's an ethos.

[mconlonx]

Another part of the problem is people who assume that an innocent person winning at trial is a sign of an impending Nazi state. That makes it hard to take them seriously.

We have a civilian jury trial in both civil and criminal cases, so what other specific solutions to the system do you propose?

Yet another part of the problem is people who assume that an innocent person winning at trial isn't a sign of an impending Nazi state. When we have cause to celebrate a victory in a case that is so cut and dry, something is already seriously wrong.

If you followed the referenced case link at all, you will see that the "justice" system, in collusion with Law Enforcement, has so far managed to keep the civil case from going to trial before a jury of anyone's peers through various legal manipulations. The evidence in this case is at least as clear as that presented in the case at hand, and he likewise won his initial criminal case. If civil suits are initiated by those who think they have been wronged, expect the first salvo of legal barriers from the other side--a whole slew of renewed or different criminal charges stemming from the initial incident, followed by enough legal obfuscation that unless they can fund the suit through charitable or activist means, they are bound to allow Law Enforcement to get away with trampling their rights simply because they can't afford to play the legal game.

You have a limited budget; the Law has you paying for their defense...

[Allister]

I can't stand it when people throw around the term "Nazi" left and right. "My building manager is such a Nazi!" or "That nazi b-tch clerk at 7-11 won't give me change"

I'd love it if people would stop using the word Nazi to describe anyone who's a bit of a hard ass or dick - unless they happen to be past or present day true Nazis. It's offensive to our world history and dilutes what a true Nazi really is/was.

danke.

Don't be such a Nazi Nazi. :p

[Daily Commute]

Don't be such a Nazi Nazi. :p

Doesn't that make you a Nazi Nazi Nazi?

[Lebowski]

They aren't Nazi's, they are COPS. Say what you want about the tenets of national socialism, but at least it's an ethos.

/\
the dude acknowledges :D


as for the Nazi thing i think its kinda pointless. many terms evolve and change meaning. with time the definition of words can be narrowed or widened.

when calling someone a d-bag do you mean that they are an appliance for cleaning female genetalia?

when referring to a police officer as a pig do you really mean he is biologically a hog?

when you call someone a SOB do you really know his mother and calling her a b-tch?

When you say someone is a nazi do you mean he is a follower of Adolph Hitler and bent on world domination of the Aryan race? Nazi's were a-holes and when someone or something is completley extreme the nomenclature used to describe them takes on new meanings. It really depends if you are loosely using the term nazi as an insult or truly comparing the nazi party to something.

etymology, its just words meaning is what matters whether it be literal or analogous. so i will continue to call figures of authority Nazis because its a nice compact word that packs a punch and gets my point across quickly.

In my opinion if things don't change and people don't start doing something, the Nazi analogy will be pretty hard to argue.. not because its false but because you wont be able to say what you want to say due to fear of persecution.

As for the American police force, i believe you have to give respect to get respect. one bad apple can spoil the bushel etc etc cliche cliche etc.. they aren't all bad guys but when you jump in a pile of crap don't expect to come out clean. We need to do some serious house cleaning on the force. They have to crack down on officers and be more selective who they hire onto the force. sounds like a bunch of highschool bullies to me. No matter who you are you can't argue that the officer's behavior is acceptable.

[Sandwarrior]

When you say someone is a nazi do you mean he is a follower of Adolph Hitler and bent on world domination of the Aryan race? Nazi's were a-holes and when someone or something is completley extreme the nomenclature used to describe them takes on new meanings. It really depends if you are loosely using the term nazi as an insult or truly comparing the nazi party to something.



My grandmother was a NAZI and so was my mother. They were members of the National Socialist party and they weren't A-holes. My mother was 12 at the time Hitler came to power and my grandparents hated him, but in order to survive, my mother (and the rest of her siblings) had to join the "party" just to be able to go to school. All my Uncles were Boy Scouts, until Hitler abolished that program and forced them to join the Hitler youth. My Grandfather refused to join the party and was fired from his job, conscripted into the army and sent to the russian front where he was listed as "missing in action". Granted, that the general image of the NAZIs is a bunch of jack booted thugs (and many were, that I concede) but please do not use such a broad paintbrush to label all the Germans forced into the party as A-holes.

[genec]

So is thread going to continue focus on Nazis or is it going to go back on track with the issues of the OP and deal with false accusations and imprisonment and CM?

[Bikepacker67]

So is thread going to continue focus on Nazis or is it going to go back on track with the issues of the OP and deal with false accusations and imprisonment and CM?

Ya, let's get this back on topic,
For instance, here's some porcine info:

David Stichter: Sgt. Stichter started with the MPD in 1996. Most recently, he has been assigned to patrol in the 4th Precinct. He will now be assigned to a supervisory position in the Traffic Enforcement Unit. Sgt. Stichter is also a member of the MPD SWAT Team. (http://mplscrimewatch.blogspot.com/2007/03/5-new-lieutenants-12-sergeants-for-mpd.html)

Doesn't that make you feel all warm and fuzy?

[mjoemoon]

Remember, this guy won his case. The US system clearly isn't perfect, but we do as good a job of holding the powerful accountable as anyone.

This guy won his case because of video shot by demonstrators -NOT- because of the US system of justice.

I have a friend that was arrested at a demonstration in Philly and, if not for the video evidence, could have and most likely would have been tied in with the death of a cop simply because he was in the vicinity of a cop who had a heart attack. The way he was treated by police after being arrested was truly horrifying. I'm not going to bother with more details than that...google it if you're curious.

Everyone here probably already knows this but I'll say it anyway:
Always, always, ALWAYS bring a video camera to Critical Mass rides...really any demonstration of any kind. Even if a buddy says she/he has the video covered bring your own. More cameras are always good...you never know when or where in the crowd you'll need them.

Try to be inconspicuous while shooting. Cops hate cameras at demonstrations and sometimes will go for camera operators first. I know this first hand and have seen video of it many times.

[mjoemoon]

I doubt any case brought against the officers would get very far... while it usually applies to unreasonable searches and seizures, I'd imagine the good faith doctrine might be applied...

http://www.policemag.com/Channels/Legal-Matters/2007/06/25/The-Good-Faith-Doctrine.aspx

I can't imagine it. Is it possible to use the good faith doctrine in that way? "I maced and then threw that man to the ground in good faith." seems like it would never fly if there's good video evidence to the contrary.

[Dchiefransom]

I think the argument would be along the lines of "in the confusion of the situation we reasonably believed the individual in question was obstructing the course of justice" et cetera, et cetera...

For everytime something similar to this happens, how often do the police get held to account?

Some kind of mechanism is allowing the police to continue to get away with similar actions, and I suspect it might be related...


The issue isn't whether, or not, the person arrested obstructed justice, it about the officers intentionally lying in court under oath to abtain a conviction. Your link covered officers making the wrong assumptions about a situation, but performing their actions physically in the proper way, then not covering up what they did with lies.
If it were me that had just been found not guilty, I'd be down at the D.A.'s office filing a criminal complaint against the officers, based on the video evidence.

[Allister]

Obviously the officers would claim they hadn't lied intentionally, they were just confused about what had happened.


Surely the last thing you want in those situations is a confused cop. If they argue that point, they should at least be taken off the street and given more training. Either way, piling lies upon lies probably isn't going to help their case. Given the outright audacity of the lies they presented in the case and the stark contrast with the video evidence, I would hope that any judge worth their salt would see right through that anyway.

[mjoemoon]

It's all well and good to recognize that, but I'd imagine confusion over a string of events that happened in the past wouldn't be that surprising... impeaching an officer's testimony is a good deal different from proving that the officer intentionally lied. And that's where I'd imagine any lawyer worth their salt would point out that a reasonable person in the officer's situation could become confused about the exact sequence of events.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the officer's actions... simply pointing out that a suit against the officer or the city isn't likely to get very far... but hey, I wish anyone attempting such a suit the best.

Well tiny, I hate to say it but given the NYPD acquittal in the case of Sean Bell (http://www.democracynow.org/) this morning it seems like you've hit it on the head. Many times cops can be guilty of the worst crimes and no one will hold them accountable.

[mconlonx]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the officer's actions... simply pointing out that a suit against the officer or the city isn't likely to get very far... but hey, I wish anyone attempting such a suit the best.

My friend is 6 years into civil suits against LEO for their illegal actions against him at an illegal roadblock, with no end in sight. And his situation is actually stronger than what we know about this case. The problem is that the "justice" system is way more predjudicial in favor of law enforcement than anyone else off the street. Also that when defending against suits like this, they have unlimited financial resources--your tax dollars--while you have to take this on as a personal out-of-pocket jihad or find some advocacy group willing to finance it.

[TRaffic Jammer]

just to toss the other side around, imagine if all ends of law enforcement COULD be dragged into court easily. a Private citizen could tie up/bankrupt a police dept just because they wanted to. It's supposed to be hard or else a crim organization could cripple a city's police force in court. Yes it's abused, but one can't swing the pendulum entirely the other way either.

[Dchiefransom]

Obviously the officers would claim they hadn't lied intentionally, they were just confused about what had happened.

Enjoy filing your criminal complaint, you'd find out quickly enough whether it would go anywhere.

Which is exactly what the previous poster's point was, that the cops and the system they work in is very crooked. I think it's past those ten years that Jefferson mentioned.

[tinydr]

This post once contained information, the author has chosen to remove his intellectual property: web 2.0 is a *****.

[Bikepacker67]

I've thought of a simple way to solve this crap.

We've all seen dash cam vids from the police.

Well let's have them wear a camera (downloading to a tamper proofed flash card type memory (we only need B/W with good audio).

And with every arrest, two copies are burned... the defense get's theirs 24 hours before the prosecution.