Training & Nutrition - Ugh I feel like I'm losing control...

I've been keeping up a strict diet that is pretty much high protein high carb and low fat and i've lost about 60 pounds and made a huge life change. I've gone from a beer belly at 21 to almost a 6 pack at 23, i have a bit of a muffin top that i'm trying to lose but for the most part i'm in the best shape of my life.

This huge change though has left me with this border line obsession with my body and eating. Every time i have a few weeks where i snack on granola before i go to bed or take in an extra 2 or 3 hundred calories (never junk food) i panic, as if i'm going to revert back to my old self. I'm typically hungry all day even though I take in about 400-500 calories for breakfast and about 600-800 in the afternoon and then around 700-900 for dinner. I'm 5'11 156 pounds and 23 yrs old, i typically ride on the weekends and run 2-4 times a week for 50 minutes and do core training so I think if anything I'm probably not taking in enough.

My question in all of this is do you think i'm becoming mentally unhealthy about this? Also should I tailor my calories down on days i don't work out or just keep it at around 2200 all week, I just feel like after about 2 yrs of this food has become a huge part of my life and i don't like, any advice?

Yeah, it might well be a problem now.

Can you have a dietary splurge and not worry about making it up?

By splurge, I mean 1 sitting where you eat a whole pizza and a pitcher of beer or big steak dinner?

Further, you're hungry all day. Something isn't right.

It's important to be careful as it can lead to orthorexia. I guess if I know I'm going out to eat or going to a party, I mentally eat less during the day so I don't feel as bad picking up the dessert.

well for me splurging isn't eating junk as much as it is me eating extra complex carbs or sometimes simple carbs. Maybe 2k calories isn't enough for my activity level I just have this urge for breads all the time. Initialey I thought it was just cravings from my old lack of habbits but maybe I need to force my self to just think less bout food

You're an athlete now, start thinking and eating like one! Maybe go over to the velodrome in Encino and check out one of the clinics.

I think its all mental because my bmr is 1800 which means i'd need to be taking in 1900-2000 calories if i was sedentary. Another thing I realized yesterday was that I create food related goals, during the day i work to eat if that makes sense. I organize all my schedule around eating so I think that puts alot of emphasis on food. Maybe I should try to start fitting food in my schedule and not vise versa and the emphasis on it in my life would become less intense and neurotic.

Well I doubt that you have a measured BMR of 1900-2000 calories. I think you have estimated your BMR from some sort of formula. Estimates are merely estimates and they can be off oh 10%-20% very easily. I have measured caloric consumptions but that has been on things like lab animals.

My point is that you might want to listen to your body some. The estimates you are using just are not that reliable.

Whats the most accurate way to calculate your BMR, i used several equations i found online and a automatic calculator and it varied from 1700-1850, how should I go about it?

Whats the most accurate way to calculate your BMR, i used several equations i found online and a automatic calculator and it varied from 1700-1850, how should I go about it?

You could just use the lowest estimate, to be conservative.

Your body tells you this stuff. If you're hungry you need to eat. You can tell the difference between being hungry and being bored or wanting something that tastes good, right? I went through the same thing when I joined the military and started working out lots. I got in great shape, but then I watched my food ridiculously. I would feel really guilty if I ate any cookies or anything like that. It was stupid. I eat when I am hungry now. If I want to drink a couple beers, I do. If you keep working out like you are and eating when your body tells you to, only one thing will happen: your body will go to its healthiest shape. For some thats a 6 pack, for others its a huge chest and matching waist. For me, I can enjoy myself and relax and have a 4 pack or I can count every calorie everyday and spend tons of time in the gym and have a 6 pack. Its not worth it, enjoy yourself.

You may have an eating disorder. Sounds like you already know this.

I guess if you worry too much and are getting less out of life, you might have some kind of disorder. It's complicated because many of us have physical (genetic) conditions where our body is always telling our brain that we're hungry, even when we're eating enough or too much.

I wonder if a consultation with a dietician would help. He/she could determine if your eating habits are normal or not and suggest interventions. You might find a good one at a local university or medical school. Insurance might pay for it if your family doctor advises it.

The problem is i can't decide wether i'm, eating because i'm truly hungry or because i just want to eat because i can.

The problem is i can't decide wether i'm, eating because i'm truly hungry or because i just want to eat because i can.

Well, then maybe it's time to have some professional help deciding. Now that your weight is down, you probably need to rethink your food inputs. It may just be the mix of foods that you eat. Good luck and Bon Appetit.

Eat if you are hungry. Make it a healthy snack, and enjoy it. You are in shape and active, a snack here and there will not make you gain fat. I know what you are going through...just eat healthy and stop worrying. It is also ok to cheat once every week (one ****ty meal a week wont kill you).

Everything I eat is healthy the only downside is that i take in alot of carbs, and some would even argue if thats a downside, i'm not worried about sugar intake or fat as much as im concerned about taking in too many calories and putting on pounds. Today i just relaxed and thought about food less and ate a bit more and felt better.

Several things (I've dealt with (and am constantly dealing with) the same problem)

1. Remember 2000 calories of good nutritious whole food is A LOT more food than "empty calories"
2. Make sure you're getting 25-30 grams of fiber a day...more fiber = fuller belly. Vita Splash and Crystal Lite make some of the little packets that you can put in a water bottle that have 5 grams of fiber which work wonders at filling you up and helping to get fiber with very little calories and you're getting your water!
3. Change around where you eat more calories for breakfast and less for dinner. The saying is "Eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince, and dinner like a pauper."
4. Be sure to include some snacks during the day. If you start to feel hungry EAT...if not you WILL binge
5. Depending on how anal you are about it, you can figure out your calorie intake for a week then vary your days so that your metabolism is constantly being shocked. Jillian Michaels first book (the red one) has great information on it. You don't have to buy it...just go to Barnes and Noble with a notebook and write down the information.
6. You may find (like I did) that you really are too obessive about it. Then you really have to back off. I'm using the Weight Watchers website now as a way to help monitor. With it I don't have to obsess about every single fat gram, calorie, sugar, sodium, etc. If you like obsessing and have time to do the work, try out www.physiquetransformation.com It's a GREAT site, but I spent more time trying to get my meal plan perfect that I didn't have time to eat!

Good Luck...I know how hard it is!

I've been keeping up a strict diet that is pretty much high protein high carb and low fat and i've lost about 60 pounds and made a huge life change. I've gone from a beer belly at 21 to almost a 6 pack at 23, i have a bit of a muffin top that i'm trying to lose but for the most part i'm in the best shape of my life.

This huge change though has left me with this border line obsession with my body and eating. Every time i have a few weeks where i snack on granola before i go to bed or take in an extra 2 or 3 hundred calories (never junk food) i panic, as if i'm going to revert back to my old self. I'm typically hungry all day even though I take in about 400-500 calories for breakfast and about 600-800 in the afternoon and then around 700-900 for dinner. I'm 5'11 156 pounds and 23 yrs old, i typically ride on the weekends and run 2-4 times a week for 50 minutes and do core training so I think if anything I'm probably not taking in enough.

My question in all of this is do you think i'm becoming mentally unhealthy about this? Also should I tailor my calories down on days i don't work out or just keep it at around 2200 all week, I just feel like after about 2 yrs of this food has become a huge part of my life and i don't like, any advice?

Diet isn't about loosing weight, diet is about figuring out how you can eat for the rest of your life. Given that you are hungry all the time, I don't think what you're currently eating is a good idea.

You don't mention what kind of food your eating, but generally, if you eat a good quality diet (vegetables, fruits, whole grains, not too much fat, limit the processed food/sugar) you won't be hungry all the time. I think that most people can figure out how to eat this way without doing a lot of calorie counting.

Note that around training, your diet needs to be different - you need simple carbs and perhaps a little protein.

If you're looking for books, carmichael's "food for fitness" is good, I've heard some good things about the paleo diet books, and south beach is decent if you ignore the advice around your workout times. Cyclo-fuel has also gotten some good review.

Typically i heat whole grain cereal in the morning with non fat milk (kashi cereals im huge on) then with that i'll have fruit with fage 0% fat yogurt or other plain fat free yogurt or cottage cheese, if i run in the morning i might have a whey shake mixed with water on top of that. For lunch i almost always have a turkey or roast beef or chicken sandwich on whole grain bread with low fat cheese and lots of veggies with a low calorie sweet mustard then for dinner alot of veggies and chicken usually sometimes i'll have red meat and then mid day i'll have about 300 calories of cashews and other nuts with some dried banana chips.

You know that idea of eating more in the morning might be a good idea, typically i eat 400-500 in the morning and then 900 in the afternoon including the snack and then 800 for dinner.

Typically i heat whole grain cereal in the morning with non fat milk (kashi cereals im huge on) then with that i'll have fruit with fage 0% fat yogurt or other plain fat free yogurt or cottage cheese, if i run in the morning i might have a whey shake mixed with water on top of that. For lunch i almost always have a turkey or roast beef or chicken sandwich on whole grain bread with low fat cheese and lots of veggies with a low calorie sweet mustard then for dinner alot of veggies and chicken usually sometimes i'll have red meat and then mid day i'll have about 300 calories of cashews and other nuts with some dried banana chips.

You know that idea of eating more in the morning might be a good idea, typically i eat 400-500 in the morning and then 900 in the afternoon including the snack and then 800 for dinner.

I think a lot of formerly overweight people feel hungry much of the time. I know I do. I think the reason for this is that our bodies are always telling our brains that we're hungry, even if we've already eaten enough to maintain a good body weight. In other words, the reason that many people feel hungry all the time is that they ARE hungry all the time.

If this is the case, it's very hard to keep the weight off. You really might have to get used to the idea of feeling hungry most of the time, and learn to ignore or live with those feelings. That's what I have to do. Exercise helps a lot because I can eat a little more without gaining. It also helps me to keep busy so I don't think about being hungry.

I'm not making this stuff up. A lot of recent laboratory science supports these ideas. A good book to read is Rethinking Thin (http://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Thin-Science-Loss-Realities/dp/0374103984) by Gina Kolata.

Oh man, I just realized something, maybe this messed up appetite is the result of my increased coffee intake. Coffee is a huge passion for me but at my last job i had it limited to two cofffee drinks a day, now at my new job where i'm provided with free starbucks all day i'm having 2-3 sometimes 4 12oz cups of brewed coffee at work and sometimes a pot of french press with good beans at home.

I did some research and found that coffee can severely mess up your cravings, I think I'm going to have to cut back, and for other reasons. I hate to do it because coffee makes me so happy but i think i'm taking in near 700mg of caffeine on an average day. It sucks because I don't drink it for the caffeine, not to say that i'm not terribly addicted to caffeine but i drink it for the flavor and man it's going to be hard to cut back.

Dude, you need a professional consultation. Get one.

It's not that dire, all I have noticed is hat in the past month and a half I have had more erratic food cravings and the only change i've made other than a new job is increased coffee intake so i'm going to give that a shot. I don't have the time or money to go to a nutritional doctor.

have you had your bodyfat % measured? the leaner I get, the nuttier my cravings are... to the extent that I'll be midway through a meal and already be thinking about what I'll be eating next. just a thought.

I haven't had it measured but i'm kinda that way, i want to give it a shot with the coffee and see how it affects my cravings. I should cut back anyway i think its messing up my moods and productivity.

Getting good quality sleep can be a problem with that much caffeine, too. Alot of the premium decafs can taste pretty good, FWIW.

+1 on paleo for athletes.

I guess I'm going to have to buy some decaf...i'm a coffee snob so its a bit hard for me. I was just about to start roasting my own beans too.

You'll have to pardon the way I quoted your first post. I did so in order to better address your questions.


I've been keeping up a strict diet that is pretty much high protein high carb and low fat and i've lost about 60 pounds and made a huge life change...I'm typically hungry all day...

For me, eating fats gets rid of the constant hunger. Most of my fats comes from olive oil (cooking and salad dressing), fish oil (either from supplements or fish), nuts (almonds, cashews, etc.). I'll eat some saturated fats such as dairy products and red meat. However, I keep this moderate. The net result is I walk away from meals satiated and guilt free.

There is the possibility that you may have a high sensitivity to carbs. I'm one of those people. I have to eat only enough carbs to become a stronger and faster athlete; any beyond that and my body has a tendency to gain unwanted weight. The amount of carbs and the type (complex isn't always beneficial to the task at hand and simple isn't always bad) of carbs I consume depends on the activity and the timing involved.

(Try this experiment. For breakfast, eat a high-carb meal. If, after 30-60 minutes, you feel drowsy, you may need to keep a close eye on your carb intake. If, however, you feel like superman, you may be one of the lucky few that responds well to carbs.)

Absolutely, positively stay away from diets like Atkins. To try and eliminate all carbs from a diet is a battle no one can win.




...I've gone from a beer belly at 21 to almost a 6 pack at 23, i have a bit of a muffin top that i'm trying to lose but for the most part i'm in the best shape of my life...My question in all of this is do you think i'm becoming mentally unhealthy about this?

Yes. Your self-worth is now linked to how you look with your shirt off.

Many people don't believe this; however, a six-pack is not always the best indicator of athletic ability.

It certainly wouldn't surprise me if more than a few owners of these coveted mid-sections suffer from bad joints (excessive and repetitive cardio) and possible deficiencies in their diet. And for athletes interested in increasing their maximum strength, cutting weight is generally counterproductive (I realize cycling is the sport of discussion here; however, I think people should know this).

I can follow a body-building protocol and get huge and cut legs. The reality is, I'll be a much better athlete by performing heavy Olympic style lifts coupled with proper neuro-adaptive and lactate threshold work on the bike; my appearance won't be as impressive, but I'll be stronger, more powerful, and faster.

Google Tom Boonen and see how relatively un-six packed his abs are (granted, he's lean, but his torso is not exactly awe-inspiring). And note how he crushed Fabian in the final sprint at this year's Paris-Roubaix (which, in my opinion, is MORE difficult to win than Tour de France).

At this point, I'm somewhat reticent to give more information. Sure, I can get you to look like a Calvin Kline underwear model. Unfortunately, it's the body-image issues you'll need to resolve first. Food is one of the great pleasures in life. You need a paradigm shift so that food is a no longer a source of loathing.

Call me an a-hole, if you want. Someday, you just might thank me. Today won't be it.

I agree with you about having a six pack not speaking much for athletic ability, in rock climbing training at the gym we'd see meat heads come in all the time absolutely juiced up and ripped and they could barley pick them selves up well all of the elite climbers in the gym...were all skinny haha its great.

My father also warned me that when you lower your body fat too much to where your all just cut muscle you are more susceptible to sicknesses, and i've learned not to turn a cheek to his medical advice.

As far as carbs go, i never used to love them, i didn't like bread but now I'm obsessed with carbs its all i want, i eat about 250-400 grams on a given day. Like I can eat a steak for dinner but if i don't have some sort of carb with it i'm still hungry, is that bad?

Pregnancy test?





Dude, chill the f- out. I was a fat kid, now I'm an extremely fit 25 year old. Eat plenty, eat often, stay super active. Make sure to eat enough fat - you probably need it; its not bad for you in healthy quantities. Low fat and fat free products often make up for the flavor loss in high fructose corn syrup and artificial flavors. If you're hungry, and its not cause you're stoned, you need fuel. Just make it the good stuff.

I'm going to make some alterations this week, lower my caffeine intake and keep the carbs reasonable because i also was reading information that eating high carb diets can create a vicious cycle because the insulin spike you get causes you to crave more carbs, this sounds spot on with whats been going on with me. I tried just eating more and i ended up craving even more, i need to avoid feeding these cravings with carbs and have a whey protein shake or something.

Well I feel alot better, I'm on my second day cutting back on the carbs and other things that give me insulin spikes. Yesterday I started and ended the day with a whey shake mixed with water and for the 200 calories it REALLY helped me so I'm going to try and work 1-2 whey shakes into my diet a day to balance my hunger. I'm noticing that with the less carbs i eat the less i crave carbs...like usually i don't even want to eat if there aren't carbs but today i woke up and wasn't so eager to eat carbs.

I agree with you about having a six pack not speaking much for athletic ability, in rock climbing training at the gym we'd see meat heads come in all the time absolutely juiced up and ripped and they could barley pick them selves up well all of the elite climbers in the gym...were all skinny haha its great.

Rock climbing is a good example of a sport that requires:

power - to make dynamic moves

isometric strength - for static moves; to hold on while chalking, scanning the next moves, clipping 'biners or placing pro (for routes)

power endurance - to finish the climb

general endurance - a base for power endurance

The mix of the four criteria determines the type of climbing someone will specialize in. Indeed, each climber tends to be drawn to the type of climbing his/her body type favors (the power oriented will favor bouldering; the power endurance oriented will favor on sighting or red pointing).

As you mentioned, there are guys who adhere to bodybuilding protocols. Generally, those guys tend to use methods that promote mostly slow-twitch fibers (some fast twitch but not as much as that of power lifters). And I sincerely doubt if most of them actually perform isometric or endurance work.

So it's no surprise these guys with their beach bods are at a disadvantage; they are carrying more bulk (thereby decreasing strength to weight ratio) AND the type of bulk (predominantly slow twitch trained to shut off after about 12 reps) does little to help the task at hand.

What's the lesson here? Looking strong is not always an indicator of performing well.




My father also warned me that when you lower your body fat too much to where your all just cut muscle you are more susceptible to sicknesses, and i've learned not to turn a cheek to his medical advice.



There is a certain tangential logic to what he said. However, very few people are that lean. Take a 170-pound male athlete, for example. If he is at 6-8% body fat, he will be very very toned. However, he will still be carrying about 10-13 pounds of fat! Granted, some of this will be in his organs which may or may not be accessible (I haven't studied the subject to this extent).

My best guess is the reasoning your father is using is this. These people, in their obsession to lower their body fat percentage, begin to deprive themselves of proper caloric intake. The body, now in survival mode, can break down protein.

Like any other pursuit, if you try to cut fat long enough, you will plateau. Now, rather than trying to approach the problem from another angle, these people mistakenly think that they should be doing more of the same (ie if moderate calories and moderate exercise garnered nice results, less calories and more exercise will garner better results).

And the bottom floor of this downward spiral...? Performance suffers. More susceptible to colds, injuries, etc. Appearance of being slender but also frail and not-quite-right.




As far as carbs go, i never used to love them, i didn't like bread but now I'm obsessed with carbs its all i want, i eat about 250-400 grams on a given day. Like I can eat a steak for dinner but if i don't have some sort of carb with it i'm still hungry, is that bad?

Your increased cycling (ie your recent successful century) may have triggered the cravings for more carbs. This is not necessarily bad. You will be hard pressed to find any endurance athlete who performs well on a low-carb diet.

Another possible theory is the forbidden fruit effect. Convince anyone that he cannot have something and I promise you he will want it that much more. (Why do you think beautiful women find you much more interesting when they see you in the company of another beautiful woman? Why do you think Louis Vuitton can charge such exorbitant prices for what is an above-average handbag?)

Again, it comes down to eating clean, eat what you need to improve your athletic abilities and health, and proper timing. I'll let you research this on your own. As you delve more into the subject, you will educate yourself to a much higher level than what can be discussed in the limited space here.

You may want to keep a journal. Note the types of carbs you crave and when you crave them. Note how certain types of carbs make you feel. Did a particular stressor trigger certain cravings...? Did a particular type of carb improve (or decrease) performance...? Did a particular carb improve mood and outlook...? You will find a pattern that you can apply in the future to be a healthier person and a better athlete.

Ignore the jack-offs that give empty advice such as "get over it" or "mistakes are for idiots." They can wallow in that special circle of hell reserved for those who will never reach their potential.

Like I said in my first response to this thread: There must be a paradigm shift in how food is perceived. Eventually, you will reach a stage where the foods you need are similar, if not identical, to the foods you want. And if you should deviate on occasion, you will NOT feel the need to whip yourself.

I'm typically hungry all day even though I take in about 400-500 calories for breakfast and about 600-800 in the afternoon and then around 700-900 for dinner.

I haven't read the other posts so if this has already been stated, then please forgive me. :)

Try spreading out your calories across 4-6 meals a day instead of 3. It's often recommended to athlete to do this because it keeps your blood sugar and hunger in check.