Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - Stems with positive rise

I've always thought neg rise track stems look better, but the feel of a short positive rise stem is of better control. Its not hunched over. But... it looks funny. I'd like a new Thomson 5 degree rise stem like the one below but I feel like its possibly sacrilidge.

http://i12.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/ea/33/f13f_1.JPG

neg rise good for drops
pos rise good for risers
i say choose depending on ur bars

that's nice to know. did you have a question?

okay, okay, i know what you want to know. i think it's just fine to do that.

Get a 17 degree stem, flip it so it's parallel to the ground, and put it a little higher on the steerer tube than where you'd put the +5 stem. That's what I would do atleast. I'm a hater for rise stems as far as aesthetics go, even though I have one on my KHS (came stock, haven't had the $$$ for upgrade).

I'm also a big believer in making myself fit a more aggressive position. Stretching and core exercises go a long way to help at this. So does yoga. I remember reading awhile back how the keirin guys in Japan can tolerate a bit more aggressive aero position on the track versus their American keirin proteges due to doing things like yoga and flexibility exercises. And nothing feels better than taking a nice corner while in the drops of some B123's...

do what you want, its your bike. Who cares.

that's nice to know. did you have a question?.haha, yeah... "can i run a posi stem and not look stupid??" naw, i just wanted to see what people thought about comfort of each.

Positive rise stems look fine with risers to me. But ugly with drops and horns. I dunno, do what you want.

Get a 17 degree stem, flip it so it's parallel to the ground, and put it a little higher on the steerer tube than where you'd put the +5 stem. That's what I would do atleast. I'm a hater for rise stems as far as aesthetics go, even though I have one on my KHS (came stock, haven't had the $$$ for upgrade)...
I agree that they don't look as good. I don't have anymore steer tube to add spacers on the bike i'm talking about. so... i may have to do the unthinkable and have a stem that rises up like a *****. and yeah, its with risers, so it won't look as ******** as drops.

Just out of curiousity. . . my stem is 90 degrees from the steering tube. . . does that make it no rise or positive rise because of the angle of the tube?

the stem itself is no rise but on the bike its positive ha

as long as your comfort is achieved why should aesthetics matter? (but I know it's hard to separate the two)

Just out of curiousity. . . my stem is 90 degrees from the steering tube. . . does that make it no rise or positive rise because of the angle of the tube?

in my opinion, that looks positive. its not parallel with the ground and looks posi. but its techinally a zero rise.

Just out of curiousity. . . my stem is 90 degrees from the steering tube. . . does that make it no rise or positive rise because of the angle of the tube?

It's positive. Your headtube isn't 90 deg with respect to the ground.

as long as your comfort is achieved why should aesthetics matter? (but I know it's hard to separate the two)

well now... thats the real heart of the question, isnt it. do you look at your bike when you arent riding it and admire it? I do. If we didnt, we wouldnt bother with powdercoating, bling parts, etc. so, i wonder if some asthetics are universal... like a posi stem looking bad.

It's positive. Your headtube isn't 90 deg with respect to the ground.
Positive, I am, then. Comfy, though.

well now... thats the real heart of the question, isnt it. do you look at your bike when you arent riding it and admire it? I do. If we didnt, we wouldnt bother with powdercoating, bling parts, etc. so, i wonder if some asthetics are universal... like a posi stem looking bad.

yea you're right. It sucks but that's the nature of it. :D I think it takes a HARD effort to not care though. It's weird how on a road bike a + rise is cool, but on a track bike it NEEDS to be either level or have a drop to it:(

well now... thats the real heart of the question, isnt it. do you look at your bike when you arent riding it and admire it? I do. If we didnt, we wouldnt bother with powdercoating, bling parts, etc. so, i wonder if some asthetics are universal... like a posi stem looking bad.

Yeah but that is getting into fashion > function territory.
If it comes down to ride vs looking at, I choose ride > looking at.

yea you're right. It sucks but that's the nature of it. :D I think it takes a HARD effort to not care though. It's weird how on a road bike a + rise is cool, but on a track bike it NEEDS to be either level or have a drop to it:(

It's funny because the real big track sprinters will get a slightly smaller frame for added stiffness, then throw on a nice super positive rise stem and some deep drops. Absolutely ridiculous looking but it helps them win races.

You ride faster on something that you think looks nice.

the bianchi concept seems to be an exception to this rule. they all (a lot of them) seem to have posi stems (and they look good that way).

http://www.pedalmafia.com/bike_ch/043_tp.jpg

ugh. no it doesn't.
http://velospace.org/files/314008678_0968ef60dc.jpg
http://velospace.org/files/Picture026.jpg
flip that positive upside down and it looks like a mean fillet brazed keirin bike on steriods and HGH.

i beg to differ. for aesthetics, a deep drop looks wrong if it's not a quill stem. no rise, a slight drop, or a slight rise, all within 10 degrees or so are all superior positions for a threadless stem.

is that your bike, nickatana?^

naah. here's my bikes!:
http://www.velospace.org/node/7098 ughh nitto jag, yeah!
http://www.velospace.org/node/7099 ugh positive rise stem, no!
i'm trying to get a concept and sell off the bridgestone though.

ive got a 110mm 5deg thomson on my new rush that i built up. i think it looks fine. i may be a bit biased since its mine, but hey i like it.

yea you're right. It sucks but that's the nature of it. :D I think it takes a HARD effort to not care though. It's weird how on a road bike a + rise is cool, but on a track bike it NEEDS to be either level or have a drop to it:(

Anytime bars or grips are being dicussed a ton of people say they're riding only the tops or mostly the tops.That combined with all the pics of bikes with huge seatposts and neg stems leads me to believe that quite a few choose form over function.

Anytime bars or grips are being dicussed a ton of people say they're riding only the tops or mostly the tops.That combined with all the pics of bikes with huge seatposts and neg stems leads me to believe that quite a few choose form over function.
WORD! +1 I tried it once and never went back. It so uncomfy it's stupid

Positive rise threadless stem
http://gallery.mac.com/bbattle/100046/P1010070/web.jpg

No rise quill stem, the way things are meant to be (Cinelli)
http://gallery.mac.com/bbattle/100121/100_0782/web.jpg

Just for the record, positive rise stems are pretty much the standard on all track bikes these days, especially for anyone specializing in a sprint race. 'Though I guess we're talking about bikes with riser bars now, so maybe this information is irrelevant.

http://velospace.org/files/314008678_0968ef60dc.jpg

That looks really stupid to me. the tarck aesthetic is an easily gotten over piece of nonsense. Free your mind bfssfg

Just for the record, positive rise stems are pretty much the standard on all track bikes these days, especially for anyone specializing in a sprint race. 'Though I guess we're talking about bikes with riser bars now, so maybe this information is irrelevant.

Racing or not, it looks lame.

http://commutebybike.com/images/poprad1.jpg

look at this ugly piece of **** :rolleyes:

im still a fan of the neg rise quill

http://velospace.org/files/314008678_0968ef60dc.jpg

That looks really stupid to me. the tarck aesthetic is an easily gotten over piece of nonsense. Free your mind bfssfg

one man's trash is another man's treasure!!! give me all your 30 degree threadless stems now!

and the reason teh lemond doesn't look bad is the angle. a less flattering angle would make it look ugly as **** :D

Do what works for you.

By the way, am I the only one who thinks that a negative rise stem + riser bars makes you look like a goofball?

Do what works for you.

By the way, am I the only one who thinks that a negative rise stem + riser bars makes you look like a goofball?

ur not the only one
i am w/ u 100% on that opinion

I think positive rise stems only look alright if they are 90mm or shorter

I have a threadless stem (stock surly steamroller Kalloy) that's negative with risers...only because it fits just right and is a little better over when I flip the stem over to the positive rise side. Kinda looks goofy, but it's just right for comfortable riding.

What in the hell is going on in here? I wish I could spread the ebola virus through the internet.

looks good to me
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v689/eddiebrannan/walkersan.jpg

tl;dr

positive rise stems generally equal more comfort.
negative rise stems generally equal a more aggressive riding position.

you see positive rise stems on cross bikes, touring bikes, anything ridden for longer than 5 miles.
you see negative rise stems on track bikes, tt bikes, crit bikes, anything ridden for speed or aerodynamics.

this is all general descriptions. there are plenty of freakish gorilla people who don't mind supporting 80% of their body weight on their palms on unwrapped crmo bars for hours/days at a time.

personally, i hate it when my neck gets out of whack, so i really really really don't like negative rise stems that put my hands too far below my ass. the higher up the hands, the more upright the ride and the less strain on your neck and weight on your palms.

my stem is slightly posi, wouldn't change it though. The stem on that San Jose is so posi it is listening to Bane. Not to mention it is equally as ugly as the singer.

I've only ridden flat rise (or level w/ top tube, whatever that's called) stems, so I don't understand how changing angles differs from changing height. Let's say there's a positive rise stem sitting low in the steer tube and a flat rise stem sitting higher, so that the position of the bars is identical. Will the two feel or handle differently because of the angle? Seems like they might, but I can't picture it.

What in the hell is going on in here? I wish I could spread the ebola virus through the internet. I was hoping you would bless this thread with your infinite wisdom and helpful insight.

I was hoping you would bless this thread with your infinite wisdom and helpful insight.

What type of assistance do you require?

The original question in this thread was fine, and the answer was in the second post. Unfortunately it turned into an ridiculous fashion fest after that.

Ride a positive rise stem if you want to be more comfortable for longer distances. Ride a negative rise stem if you want to be more aerodynamic and ride shorter distances. Sooner or later, you'll realize that the general public doesn't give a **** what your bike looks like.

Stem rise is irrelevant unless discussed in the context of the size of the bike and rider.

Stem rise is irrelevant unless discussed in the context of the size of the bike and rider.

Of course there will be some oddballs with weird bodies/bikes, but what I said holds true a vast majority of the time.

The fit and body position that works on the track may or may not work on the street.

Those who race on the track and fully understand the fitting dynamics of the track choose a low drop position for aerodynamics; and, they choose a more forward riding position, in relation to the crank or bottom bracket, in order to facilitate the activation of the rectus femoris muscle in the thigh, so that it can flex the hip and pull the thigh upwards and forward.
A more forward position, while riding in the drops, stretches out the hip a little and activates the rectus femoris in flexion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectus_femoris_muscle

Of all the muscles in the quadriceps group, only the rectus femoris can both flex the hip and extend the knee; however, the rectus femoris will only do so in certain body positions.

Setting aerodynamics aside, on the street, one should consider a riding position that works on the street and which may or may not work on the track.

On the street, someone who rides with very high gearing, say 82 gear inches or above, and on relatively level terrain, might benefit from a low aerodynamic position; however, those riding with lower gearing and on hilly terrain would probably benefit from a slightly more upright and further back position.

I ride with a small frame because I have short legs for my height and the small frame gives me the standover height I need.

Given the above, I find that when I fit for proper function on the street, a straight horizontal line drawn forward from the top of my saddle passes through my hand position on bullhorn handlebars.
This puts me in a little more erect position, comparable to most roadies riding on the hoods.

I also find my self further back, with my forward knee correctly placed over the pedal and the saddle further back than on a bike fitted for the track.
This lightens up the front wheel and makes the bike much more maneuverable and agile at slow speeds.

For me, given my one size too small frame set, this means a 90mm stem with six degrees of rise and bullhorns.

This works for me with my body on my streets in my community.

Given my present riding situation, I choose my gear ratio and body position not for speed, but for acceleration and braking, quickness and agility; and I don't see speeds much above 15mph very often and so have less consideration for aerodynamics.

How I look to other people matters not a bit to me.

Some years ago I had a regular commute of 15 miles on level terrain and I rode at 82 gear inches and with a lower, more aerodynamic body position.
I averaged 19.7mph, including several stoplights.

Now I have a shorter 7.5 mile commute with significant hills, more stoplights, and much more traffic.
I ride with a more upright postion and lower gearing, and I average 15mph.

Again, how I look to other people matters not a bit.

In the winter, on ice and snow, I ride with an even shorter stem with more rise.
This puts me even more upright and further back, and makes my front wheel very light so that if I hit something because the snow hides it, or if I hit something because the rain and headlight glare hides it, my front wheel stays under control.
Also, if I take a fall, which I have, it seems to go better from the more upright, further-aft postion than when I have more body weight on the handlebars.

So, in my humble opinion, one ought not let track considerations influence the design and fit of a street fixed gear bike, unless one just wants that track look on the street.

To some people, looks matter more than function.
Different strokes for different folks.

I've only ridden flat rise (or level w/ top tube, whatever that's called) stems, so I don't understand how changing angles differs from changing height. Let's say there's a positive rise stem sitting low in the steer tube and a flat rise stem sitting higher, so that the position of the bars is identical. Will the two feel or handle differently because of the angle? Seems like they might, but I can't picture it.

Generally, it's better to get to a given height with a riser stem than with a straight stem on top of a stack of spacers. You are taking a geometric 'shortcut' straight from the steerer tube to the bar clamp, meaning weight is decreased and strength and stiffness increased; and in theory, you decrease flex at the steerer tube by eliminating spacers.

yeah that makes sense that it would be stiffer. I still prefer the look of flat stems, only now I know why that makes me feel shallow. thanks, mander.