Manufacturer, Retailer, Survey and Consumer Feedback - Experience with Peter White Cycles

Do you have any idea what you are talking about? What did I editorialize??? The fact that I wanted 27" wheels? Yes, clearly that matters in what wheels could be built and how, but during our phone conversation, that was not relayed to me.

I also read something earlier about wanting touring wheels...that was not correct.

The point of the original post was not whether or not Peter White could build a wheel for me, but the fact that I was treated rudely. I'm sorry if that was unclear.

What is clear is that you are making an assumption that I editorialized the conversation for my own benefit. I tried very hard not to do that.

And the title of your post was....

If the OP had named his thread something like "frustrating customer service experience" and not called out PW directly in the subject line i think it would have been otherwise acceptable. It seems ok to name PW in the post itself, but putting it in the subject just makes it impossible to ignore for people who like PW but would otherwise not care about somebody's random bad customer service experience problem. I've seen a few other threads which use subject line to take advantage of a person or shop's well-deserved respect and renown, it just unfairly draws attention to your post by taking advantage of the goodwill which the community accords that person. It is kind of the equivalent of those US Weekly celebrities w/o their makeup on photos. Otherwise it seems like the OP is being very reasonable about things, doing a pretty good job of not getting too drawn into a lot of the negativity this thread has somewhat justifiably generated.

As far as the internet being wonderful or not, it actually does seem to me as if on balance BF has done a pretty good job of defending PW, and that while his customer service took a hit his reputation as an excellent wheel builder has only improved. As long as they spell his name right.

I find it almost hard to believe that this thread has gone on for three pages already!

Firstly no one has any particular obligation to serve you as a business. Secondly, if you don't LIKE the service you receive, then take your money elsewhere.

Regards.

I find it almost hard to believe that this thread has gone on for three pages already!

Regards.

Set your preferences to 30 posts per page and it would still be two!:)

Peter White definitely has a reputation for being an excellent wheel builder, so I figure I'll call him. I tell him I need a new rear wheel for my lugged steel Nishiki. I tell him that I want it to be pretty stout and that my frame has 126mm spacing, but I can easily put a 130mm wheel on there.

He asks me if I would cold set the frame to 135mm, I say I'd rather not. So he says he can't help me!!!

I ask him why he can't build me a good wheel with 130 mm spacing, and he says he doesn't have time to explain that to me right now. WOW!!! That felt incredibly patronizing. I mean, I hate being talked down to in the first place, but especially by someone who I'm about to give my hard earned money to.

I realize that he could build me some 48 spoke tandem rear wheel with 135 or 140mm spacing, and I guess that's what he wanted to build, but surely he could build a good 36 spoke 130mm wheel that will be solid. That's all I wanted, but apparently he would not do that.

He didn't even bother to ask me how much I weigh, how much the bike weighs, what kind of tires I use, what kind of riding I do....nothing. The hole conversation didn't last 2 minutes. We didn't discuss anything else but rear spacing.

I guess my point is, I would have appreciated it if he had talked to me a little more and we could have shared a little more information before he just decided he couldn't help me. It felt like very bad customer service to me...something I am sick to death of.

You may want to try http://www.youngwheels.com/

Joe has a great reputation and MANY years of experience.

This thread cracks me up.

I have a set of wheels from peter. Go them for the single speed i built up.
He had a little trouble finding the kind of hub I requested but did find something in the end and built me a nice set of wheels. Here's a pic...
http://d2creative.smugmug.com/photos/174366106_VxhJ9-M.jpg

But having said that, if you get rid of all the crap in this thread, what you're left with is someone who called in and received poor customer service. End of story. It doesn't matter WHO he called. It doesn't matter if he did a ton of research or is a total noob. It doesn't matter if the business he called wanted the job or not. He got rushed off the phone without an explanation of why. THAT is poor customer service no matter how you slice it.

Now what the readers of BF need to do is weigh this negative response with all the other positive and negative responses and make their own determination. Lashing out at the OP for voicing his own personal experience is ridiculous. But like Peter pointed out... this is the internet after all, where everyone is fairly anonymous.

You may want to try http://www.youngwheels.com/

Joe has a great reputation and MANY years of experience.


I also had a pair of wheels built by Joe Young once that were sold to Richardson Bike Mart in Dallas. He has built wheels for former MTB world champion Thomas Frischknecht. Joe knows strong wheels. All he does is build wheels. No bike shop hassle. His website is pretty amateurish, but the wheels are great.

I would also try Peter Chisholm at Vecchio's Bicicletteria in Boulder, CO. The guy knows his stuff. He used to post on another cycling forum offering helpful advice to other cyclists. He builds his wheels using the latest instruments, tensiometer, dial gauges, etc. Do a search under his name on Google. Lots of satisfied riders using his wheels. I called their shop and ordered a pair of wheels many years ago and remember him as being incredibly helpful. Based on my lightweight wishes and intended use and weight, he gave me his recommendations of the right rim, spoke combination, as well as the final tension he was going to use to build my wheels. Give him a call. On their website, when you click on the email link, they even ask the customer to call them for more personalized service. I doubt you would get anything, but excellent customer service to go with a well-made handbuilt wheelset.

Vecchio's Bicicletteria
http://www.vecchios.com/

I have bought bike gear from Peter White cycles many times over the past several years. The selection and explanation of bike lights is fantastic. His selection of rims and other wheelbuilding gear is also quite good. I usually like to shop at my local bike shop, but for lights, Peter White has generator hubs and LED lights that my local shop can't order.

Over the course of a several years, I have received somewhat terse service when making orders, but the end products have always been excellent. Once you get used to the New England demeanor, he seems like an honorable businessman. In summary, if my LBS doesn't have the gear, I will still order from Peter White.

Whenever someone enters the gap, walmart, starbucks, jiffy lube, etc. they are greeted by a smiling face and a cheery "how are you today?" But most of the products and/or services they sell are crap, and if you actually have a question about a specific product they are clueless. The bicycle industry is certainly not exempt from this.

To me, good customer service is selling a quality product and standing behind it. I understand that it's frustrating when as a customer you are treated in a gruff fashion, but you have no idea how much other stuff someone may have had on their plate that day, and everyone is human. People seem to hold people who work in retail to higher standards than the rest of the world. It's hard to be "on" 8 hours a day, especially when one is balancing that with operating a business.

It's more important to me that a shop not try to force me into spending money with them, and that they sell quality products and stand behind those products.

And what Doconabike said about New England demeanor is true, when I first moved to Rhode Island I thought everyone hated me! You do get used to it.

I always thought the "customer is always right" idea to be stupid. It makes no sense to me.

I hate being talked down to in the first place, but especially by someone who I'm about to give my hard earned money to.
No one likes being talked down to, but what does giving money have to do with it? Any transaction is an economics decision by two parties. Just because you are giving the money doesn't make your side of the equation any greater. In this case, Peter decided that the deal was not worth it to him. I don't know his reasoning and it doesn't matter. He was not willing to build that wheel. I will assume that he didn't think the wheel he could build was up to his standards and didn't want to lower his standards or ruin a reputation of building good wheels.

He doesn't need to give an explanation. You tried to enter into an agreement, he declined. You then wanted to know why he declined. He then told to you that he didn't have time to explain, another economical decision. You wanted something from him (his explanation), he decided it wasn't worth the valuable resource (his time). He might of confused you with another caller and made a mistake about what you needed. But this was not patronizing, it is economics.

For some reason, people think that if they are willing to pay money for something then they have a right to have it and the way they want it.

Nothing against the [OP] or Mr.White, but if I had a problem [?] with someones' customer service and/or people skills, I wouldn't be telling everyone in a public forum. If it really bothered me, I would of told that person right then and there [without profanity].

The other day I walked into Walgreens to buy some ink and paper for my printer. Noticing that the ink was locked up, I turned to ask a salesperson [middle-age woman] for assistance. She looked at me and kept on walking. Not a single word. I didn't get mad, I just laughed. I myself have experience in retail and would never treat a customer like that. I just figured she was having a bad day.

"Misery loves company." And I wasn't about to let this Momma ruin my day.:D

I too have had Mr White talk down to me the two times I called there. I could have really used the help as I was refurbishing my old touring bike with plans to buy a new bicycle the following year.

My wife said to me afterwards "Why would you give your money to someone who treats you like $h!+."

Well I didnt and in fact I build my own wheels now. Its not hard to do and it gives me alot of satisfaction.

Mr White would do better to recognize his short comings and hire a person to answer questions who has good phone manners and who knows about/or is willing to learn about bicycles and bicycle wheels.

Okay folks. It's starting to get a little hot in here. This is past the point of being in the mechanic's forum. Should this be moved to Consumer feedback?

We should not be bashing each other here.

Let's have constructive criticism if anything, and fairness to Peter to give his side.

Perhaps a lot can be learned from here.

Thank you.

Siu Blue Wind
Forum Moderator

Moved

Well, this has been interesting. I'm going to have to use my blind men and the elephant reference again, as it seems that everyone has a different perception of Mr. White. Some of us want a lot of attention and hand-holding when it comes to customer service, other folks only care about the item or work being done, and the price.

Obviously, he has a great reputation for building uncompromising wheels. In order to preserve that reputation, he's only going to build/sell a product that meets his standards. So let him get off the phone and back to work. Not only was he not making a sale, but the call was costing him lost time.

He sounds just like any other self-employed person that would rather be working than doing sales/customer service. And for someone that does specialized work, it's not always possible to delegate those tasks to someone else.

Get thee to Rich Lesknik (http://www.handsonwheels.com/contact.html). He is very likely the best wheelbuilder in the world, yet you can chat on the phone with him. He's a retired aerospace engineer.

I have two sets of Rich's wheels--they are BOMBPROOF (yet refined!). :p

My wife said to me afterwards "Why would you give your money to someone who treats you like $h!+."
Your wife is a wise woman, indeed. Not only do I not give my money to someone who treats me like S, I also withhold my discretionary $$ from those who take me for granted. And then I tell others. The world is too competitive for anyone to get away with that.

That said, I also go out of my way to talk or write it up when I am treated or served well. It's karmaic.

Nothing against the [OP] or Mr.White, but if I had a problem [?] with someones' customer service and/or people skills, I wouldn't be telling everyone in a public forum. Why not? Before I read this forum, I might have purchased wheels from someone who may not deserve my business. And I wouldn't want to know that because . . . ?

Isn't the internet wonderful? You get to write whatever you like, with total impunity. You're 100% unaccountable, because you're 100% anonymous.

If this anonymous internet hero thinks I'm a snob, and the equally anonymous OP thinks I'm rude, that's their business. I couldn't care less. Why? Because anyone bothering to read what they write knows that they're anonymous and unaccountable, and lends them all the credibility they deserve.

Oh, uh, just to be clear...

Peter Jon White
Peter White Cycles
24 Hall Rd.
Hillsborough, NH 03244

Yup, it's really me. ;-)
Peter, I agree with you on PART of your point about anonymity--I don't like anonymity either, which is why I am ME whereever I may roam on the internet. But the fact that someone posts something anonymously doesn't AUTOMATICALLY mean it's bunk. Some people don't have the courage to stand behind what they write, that's all.

Well, this has been interesting. I'm going to have to use my blind men and the elephant reference again, as it seems that everyone has a different perception of Mr. White. Some of us want a lot of attention and hand-holding when it comes to customer service, other folks only care about the item or work being done, and the price.

Obviously, he has a great reputation for building uncompromising wheels. In order to preserve that reputation, he's only going to build/sell a product that meets his standards. So let him get off the phone and back to work. Not only was he not making a sale, but the call was costing him lost time.

He sounds just like any other self-employed person that would rather be working than doing sales/customer service. And for someone that does specialized work, it's not always possible to delegate those tasks to someone else. Brilliant in its truth, thank you.

other folks only care about the item or work being done, and the price.

Interesting. I have never had a client who felt this way. Is this attitude just industry specific? I agree, most customers certainly do care about the work being done and the price, but they also care to be treated courteously and professionally.



Obviously, he has a great reputation for building uncompromising wheels. In order to preserve that reputation, he's only going to build/sell a product that meets his standards. So let him get off the phone and back to work. Not only was he not making a sale, but the call was costing him lost time.

I completely agree with you about his reputation, but sometimes you can make a customer, even if you don't make a sale. This was an opportunity lost.



He sounds just like any other self-employed person that would rather be working than doing sales/customer service.

True...but sales and customer service are almost always a cost of doing business.

Interesting. I have never had a client who felt this way. Is this attitude just industry specific? I agree, most customers certainly do care about the work being done and the price, but they also care to be treated courteously and professionally.

When I did photography and video, I had customers to whom money was no object ($80k on a party) and all they wanted was for me to show up. I also had customer that wanted their hand held through a $75 sitting. Some just say they know what I do, and here's the money. Others wanted that warm and fuzzy customer service experience. You do what you can.

[QUOTE=Butterthebean;6595130]I completely agree with you about his reputation, but sometimes you can make a customer, even if you don't make a sale. This was an opportunity lost.

And he could have been having a bad day. Things happen.


True...but sales and customer service are almost always a cost of doing business.

Not true for your phone and cable company, the trash man, and the cashier where you buy your gas. On the other hand, I did sell my very expensive Honda and bought a Suzuki instead, because of the service. It appears I was wrong though.

From my own experience and reading other posts Peter White seems to have a reputation for spotty customer service, so why not get your wheel built local? Save the shipping cost and if there is a problem easy to get satisfaction. Peter is not the only game in town - there are other sources for hubs and light etc.

:eek: When making medical diagnoses of people you haven't met based on improper information that you haven't confirmed, its not an explanation, its just foolish.

I agree! It is foolish, rude and springs forth from a reprobate mind. Additionally, it offends me and others on behalf of Mr. White. If you are smart enough to quote and ascribe medical conditions to someone you don't know, have never met and certainly have not examined in a professional capacity then you are smart enough to - STAY ON TOPIC! That is if you have one lick of common sense, which is doubtful. I think that you might have been banned in the recent past for similar conduct and have resurfaced with a new name. To bad! Let's see how long you last this time.

I posted a question in Bike Mechanics regarding a SRAM i-Light Hub. Mr. White answered my question, which I appreciate greatly. If I had the resources Mr. White would be building me a set of wheels and not myself.

After all, I have zero experience and if it doesn't work I can't blame Mr. White now can I.

I once emailed Peter White about building a rear wheel around a NuVinci hub. He said no, he wouldn't do it, not something he was interested in taking on. OK, fine by me, I was surprised, but simply looked elsewhere. Certainly didn't post here complaining about it or him...

From what we've heard from both sides, sounds more like simple miscommunication between two humans than anything else. Except nowadays we get to archive stuff like this in teh intarwebz instead of just shrugging it off, for extended navel-gazing and pontificating by people who were not there and won't ever have the full story.

If you must, think of Peter White Cycles as the "Soup Nazi" of the cycling world and get on with your life. Either you'll put up with some quirks for what he offers, or you'll find some other place to spend your money. FWIW, I ordered once from PWC with no problems, and later called with an unrelated tech question about a component purchased elsewhere. Both times, I received fantastic customer service... but then again, both times I called there, I never actually spoke to Peter White.

IIf you must, think of Peter White Cycles as the "Soup Nazi" of the cycling world and get on with your life.

Was thinking the same thing when I read this thread days ago. :)

I've built one wheel with the NuVinci hub. That was more than enough for one lifetime. The spoke holes were not drilled correctly, the distances between the spoke holes, one to the next, were not consistent. So many of the spokes were either too long or too short, at random.

The wheel took ages to build, since I hadn't noticed the problem before lacing it up and the initial tensioning. Then I had to start cutting individual spokes at various lengths in order to be able to tension the wheel correctly. Add to that the weight of the hub and my arthritic back, and you might well understand why I'm pleased to let someone else make his fortune building on these hubs.

I'm pleased to let someone else make his fortune building on these hubs.

Absolutely. My point being that it's fine if you personally don't want to do that--if that's what I'm interested in, I'll just take my business elsewhere... and not get my panties in a twist and b!tch about it on an internet forum.

Thanks for the clarification.

For those chomping on pocorn for this thread, when I contacted Peter, I did not get this much of an explanation, just that he wasn't interested in buliding a wheel around that hub. I'd call his reply curt, but certainly not rude, and as much as I've received in reply to queries from others in the bike business running small, specialty companies, with limited resources to answer questions in the detail that some might prefer.

I still recommend PWC to anyone who asks...

Absolutely. My point being that it's fine if you personally don't want to do that--if that's what I'm interested in, I'll just take my business elsewhere... and not get my panties in a twist and b!tch about it on an internet forum.

Thanks for the clarification.

For those chomping on pocorn for this thread, when I contacted Peter, I did not get this much of an explanation, just that he wasn't interested in buliding a wheel around that hub. I'd call his reply curt, but certainly not rude, and as much as I've received in reply to queries from others in the bike business running small, specialty companies, with limited resources to answer questions in the detail that some might prefer.

I still recommend PWC to anyone who asks...

I concur and salute Mr. White's demeanor in responding to posts in this thread.

I'm failing to understand the disapproval of the OP's intentions.

Just as Peter has the right as a business owner to decline a customer, a customer has the right (and, in a market such as ours, the responsibility) to voice his/her impressions and experience. That's how we maintain quality control.

I understand some folks wanting to kiss a bit of behind because Peter has a respectable reputation... But if we allow immunity for reputable dealers and lambaste those who speak out against them, we're really handicapping ourselves.

The OP did nothing wrong. He relayed an experience. It came as no surprise to anyone that Peter blew this guy off with no tact. Yet several are up in arms about this thread. That's silly. The OP just did his part as an active consumer. Peter had an opportunity to respond, and did so. Then he went a bit further and appeared to be a whining brat. I'm left with the following impression:

- He's good at wheel-building.
- He sucks at customer service.

Some people value the service, especially in a day and age when there are few true masters that can't be replaced by cheaper and better service.

"grouchy with a smiley face"

Now that is funny! I just ordered some stuff from PW last week, everything was cool ! :thumb:

This thread says more about the personality of the people posting than it does about Peter or the OP.

:)

Well,

This a stale thread, but I feel the need to chime in for others considering having Peter build a wheel for their needs. I recently made the trip up to him from Boston to discuss my needs and hear his recommendation. Peter spent more than ample time with me and would not take a dollar more from me than what was needed to build a near bombproof rear wheel. He spent plenty of time going over tires and rack choices to determine what was the best for my rig. On my return trip, he even gave me a truing demo on a wheel stand so I could help a buddy back home. All newbie questions were answered without any attitude.

I know it's my experience, and I can't speak for others, but I thought the customer service and value was top notch.

Your right, don't do business with a person who is probably the foremost wheel builder in the USA; and especially don't do business with a guy who builds wheels like mine that I've never had to true in 5 years! what kind of crap is that? I mean I expect and demand my rights to true a wheel...damn Peter White!!!