Classic & Vintage - In praise of the steel race bike.

Today I rode the training ride/race, where most people ride full carbon bikes, extremely deep dish carbon aero wheels and very expensive color matched helmets, shoes and kits for teams they don't ride for. Entry into this club is at least $5000 and there are some that have paid well over $10k for a premium membership. This is a serious group with many very fast racers, although they weren't going all out this morning.

There was a guy, probably in his early 30's, riding a vintage, downtube shifter, full Campy Cinelli, probably from the late 70's, early 80's. He had the whole retro kit, a leather hairnet over a campy cap, mesh back leather palm gloves, he even had a spare tube around his waist! Well this guy easily kept up with the group, in fact he could easily move up and through the pack at will. Many guys with the latest, most expensive gear fell off the back, but this guy held on for the whole ride.

You talk with most wannabee racers these days and all they talk about is the number of watts this unobtanium/carbon part will give you, but the proof is in the legs. The fact that this guy could easily keep up demonstrates that there has been very little functional improvement since the golden age of race bikes, the late 70's-early 80's, despite the new, expensive materials that bikes are made of today.

A full Campy 70's Cinelli and all that retro kit bought today is probably not much cheaper than a full blown modern carbon bike.

As for performance, motor is motor.

A full Campy 70's Cinelli and all that retro kit bought today is probably not much cheaper than a full blown modern carbon bike.



That's what I was thinking! But still it's probably a bit cheaper. A full blown carbon can easily cost $10,000.

The message I get from San Rensho's post is that it needn't necessarily have been a megabuck Cinelli, but that any quality vintage steel racing bike can still be competitive (with the right engine, of course).

The message I get from San Rensho's post is that it needn't necessarily have been a megabuck Cinelli, but that any quality vintage steel racing bike can still be competitive (with the right engine, of course).

Precisely, but it was actually a sweet, pretty high end Cinelli.

The message I get from San Rensho's post is that it needn't necessarily have been a megabuck Cinelli, but that any quality vintage steel racing bike can still be competitive (with the right engine, of course).

of course.

But put a pro on a vintage where the engines are all near their peak performance and I think they would be at a huge disadvantage.

There is a saying in both motorcycling & bicycling: "The slowest part of the bike is the rider."

Except in my case. All that's holding me back is my non-aerodynamic overweight water bottle.

Damn, now I feel bad. It's only $35 a year for a family membership in my club :o

But I agree with cyclotoine, apples to apples, a modern bike gives a huge advantage. I'll grant you though, Lance Armstrong, even retired, could probably kick my butt riding a 1900 shaft-drive Columbia :)

I've always been a recreational cyclist but I decided to try racing a couple of years ago. I figured if my running freinds could go out and run in 5K and 10K races and even marathons then I could do it on a bike. So I joined a racing club (not the club I'm in now) and trained and started out with a time trial series. The young CAT P-1-2 guys were finishing the course close to 21:00. The middle aged CAT 45 leaders were finishing around 21:30. I think the CAT 55 leaders were still well under 22:00. I figured the CAT 4 35+ guys would be slow pokes like me but nyoooo...the leaders were still under 22:00 ('cause they were all sorry ***** sand bagging expert mountain bikers or tri racers who didn't have a road rating :mad: ). My freind and I decided that the only way we could be competative was to enter as 10-12yo girls or over 65 women (and no, we aren't female :) ) so we gave up. The point being, any of those guys (or gals) could kick our butts on vintage bikes even if we were riding the latest and greatest (actually my freind was riding a full on modern aero time trial bike) but the difference between winning and loosing was a matter of seconds even across a wide variety of catagories so a modern bike would make all the difference if you were in that position.

Now even after I said all that, I still take my vintage bike on club rides - sometimes I keep up, sometimes I get dropped but it ain't the bike's fault either way so you're right in so far as for normal riders riding at a sub-racing pace, the technology hasn't changed so much as to prevent you from riding a vintage bike with a group on modern bikes.

This morning on the club ride a couple of people noticed I was on my "old" and "heavy" Serotta (86 Nova, but with modern Campagnolo). So 50 miles into the 60 mile route, I decided to show them what old and heavy could do by being the first person over the top of Windhaven hill (toughest climb in the Plano, tx area - but that isn't saying too much), by about a dozen bike lengths or more. This in a small group which included a Pinarello F4:13, a couple of titanium frames, a Griffin TT bike, etc. Tomorrow I'll be taking the Gazelle to the Tempo/Recovery ride. See if I can hold their "tempo" with the super record group. ;)

One of my pleasures is dropping the Ti and carbon full kit club boys riding my pink De Rosa, with down tube shifters and toe clip pedals, and I'm an overweight old man.

The last time I rode with a racer, he just kept saying, today is my rest day, and how uncompetitive steel was in the peloton. For a racer, he sure wasn't competitive.

Not saying I can keep up with a Cat 4 even, but it sure isn't the bike holding me back.

This morning on the club ride a couple of people noticed I was on my "old" and "heavy" Serotta (86 Nova, but with modern Campagnolo). So 50 miles into the 60 mile route, I decided to show them what old and heavy could do by being the first person over the top of Windhaven hill (toughest climb in the Plano, tx area - but that isn't saying too much), by about a dozen bike lengths or more. This in a small group which included a Pinarello F4:13, a couple of titanium frames, a Griffin TT bike, etc. Tomorrow I'll be taking the Gazelle to the Tempo/Recovery ride. See if I can hold their "tempo" with the super record group. ;)

I'll loan you my Raleigh Ltd.-3. It was made by Gazelle. ;)


If you are racing, a new bike will make a difference. If you are club riding, no need to drop huge amounts of money. No need, but there may be plenty of desire to do so, if only because that's human nature. So don't worry about it.

I've ridden with plenty of people with 8-speed downtube shifters, barends, Nashbar frames, you name it. My first road bike was a 2005 Orbea with carbon fork, seatpost, seatstays, and full Ultegra so I know full well it's not the bike, it's the rider.

I sometimes take the Fixed gear bike on road rides. Not with the fast group, but then they often jack up the pace and leave me behind anyways. :(

as some of you have surely noted, the Furnace 508 is offering a pre-'83 class this year. No brifters, no clipless pedals, no nothing post-83. And, nothing but steel allowed. hombre-up. they leveled the playing field.

http://www.the508.com/divisions/classic.html

of course.

But put a pro on a vintage where the engines are all near their peak performance and I think they would be at a huge disadvantage.
Absolutely.

Not near enough room for SPONSORS LOGOS SPONSORS LOGOS SPONSORS LOGOS SPONSORS LOGOS

And without the SPONSORS LOGOS SPONSORS LOGOS there are other things you can't afford.

A full Campy 70's Cinelli and all that retro kit bought today is probably not much cheaper than a full blown modern carbon bike.


Well it's still an expensive bike in an expensive club.
If someone had kicked everyone else's ass in an old mid-level fuji then I'd be impressed.

.....there has been very little functional improvement since the golden age of race bikes.....

Yeah - if you don't count STI shifting, dual pivot brakes, and free hubs. :D

Yeah - if you don't count STI shifting, dual pivot brakes, and free hubs. :D
Pretty sure that while riding, the freehub is not a functional improvement. It's easier to change cassettes than freewheels, but that's about it. OK, a theoretical strength advantage.

Dual pivot brakes? Maybe.

STI: depends on the rider, I think. And the venue.

Probably wheels. Wheels are probably quicker.

But mostly, there's extra space for SPONSORS LOGOS SPONSORS LOGOS :D

Yeah - if you don't count STI shifting, dual pivot brakes, and free hubs. :DBBM, I have freehubs on all of my mid 80's Shimano DA. Campy of the same era, not so much.

As far as the rest...brakes, try not to slow down, Brifters, try to pick a gear and stick with it. Knowing the road is important.

Seriously, I think brifters are a great step forward, safety wise, but I think new steel technology is even more important, performance wise.

I can't tell you how much I want a 54cm De Rosa Primato in EL/OS with diamente chain stays and a flat, steel fork crown.

Anyone?

Pretty sure that while riding, the freehub is not a functional improvement. It's easier to change cassettes than freewheels, but that's about it. OK, a theoretical strength advantage.

Dual pivot brakes? Maybe.

STI: depends on the rider, I think. And the venue.

Probably wheels. Wheels are probably quicker.

But mostly, there's extra space for SPONSORS LOGOS SPONSORS LOGOS :D

There are some races around here where you might be able to get away with DT shifters, but most crits, especially if there's a hill or two, you would be at a decided disadvantage without STI.

There are some races around here where you might be able to get away with DT shifters, but most crits, especially if there's a hill or two, you would be at a decided disadvantage without STI.

If one were racing, I can see brifters being an advantage. In fast group/club/rec rides, not so much.

I'm pushing 60, and I tend to pick a gear and stick with it. On climbs, I time my shifts. I think most folks would agree that you are actually a bit faster with DT shifters, because you tend to muscle through, instead of wimping out.

I'm pushing 60, and I tend to pick a gear and stick with it. On climbs, I time my shifts. I think most folks would agree that you are actually a bit faster with DT shifters, because you tend to muscle through, instead of wimping out.

That's ridiculous. Maximising your effort through proper gear ratio is not "wimping out", and it's going to be faster and more efficient than building up lactic acid by pushing too large a gear or redlining by spinning one too small. That's why a close ratio 10 speed cluster operated from the bars is such an ideal tool for racing or hard riding.

You know it's ok to like and ride old bikes for what they are. Comparing them to modern race bikes is a complete waste of time. If you do not appreciate modern technology you are probably not riding hard enough for it to matter. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Feeling superior to "dumb rich guys on carbon Nagos that you pass on your Varsity", is starting to sound like a classic & vintage urban legend and should be filed under, "guys who race guys who don't know they are racing".

That's ridiculous. Maximising your effort through proper gear ratio is not "wimping out", and it's going to be faster and more efficient than building up lactic acid by pushing too large a gear or redlining by spinning one too small. That's why a close ratio 10 speed cluster operated from the bars is such an ideal tool for racing or hard riding.

You know it's ok to like and ride old bikes for what they are. Comparing them to modern race bikes is a complete waste of time. If you do not appreciate modern technology you are probably not riding hard enough for it to matter. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Feeling superior to "dumb rich guys on carbon Nagos that you pass on your Varsity", is starting to sound like a classic & vintage urban legend and should be filed under, "guys who race guys who don't know they are racing".

If you want an argument from me, you'll have to change the subject.

:D

I just rode 40 miles today on my vintage 6 speed Mondia. While my overall average speed wasn't really affected and I had a great time, all day long I was either pushing in too hard a gear or spinning out of not enough a gear. With 10 speeds, as you mentioned, you can match almost exactly the proper gear to your terrain. If you put identical motors on vintage and modern, it is silly to suggest the vintage is "just as good" or that modern "has no significant technical advantage". Apples and oranges.

Close ratio 10 speed with fingertip control on the drops and hoods is where it's at, and up until 2 years ago I spent a lifetime on DT shifters.

Maximising your effort through proper gear ratio is not "wimping out", and it's going to be faster and more efficient than building up lactic acid by pushing too large a gear or redlining by spinning one too small. That's why a close ratio 10 speed cluster operated from the bars is such an ideal tool for racing or hard riding.

I have not ridden modern but I don't doubt this is true. I see it on rides from the wrong side of the deal.


Feeling superior to "dumb rich guys on carbon Nagos that you pass on your Varsity", is starting to sound like a classic & vintage urban legend and should be filed under, "guys who race guys who don't know they are racing".

They feel superior when they pass me, so I might as well enjoy it when I pass them.

And if you can't afford a good modern bike, you make a virtue out of necessity.

And if you're obsessed with classic & vintage, you make a virtue out of irrationality. :) ;)

on a fast club ride, i somewhat agree with the op's premise- a guy with classic gear that's fit, motivated, tactically saavy & cunning is never to be counted out regardless of his equipment.
the differences between the latest/greatest and the best of the traditional gear is measured in increments-increments which can be minimised,& sometimes even erased by skill and desire but racing is a completely different story... all those increments begin to add up over the course of an event.
a major part of any form of racing is being able to respond immediately and directly to attacks and changing conditions.
even the smallest of dissimilarities can mean falling off and not being able to ride your own race and make the most of your strengths.
when your competition is all roughly equal in fitness and skill, having the perfect gear to select from is the only way to stay with the pack over any sort of distance and the ability to almost instantaneously shift from the hoods & jump in a bunch sprint is the difference between a high placing and getting snookered & shut out cold.

One of my pleasures is dropping the Ti and carbon full kit club boys riding my pink De Rosa, with down tube shifters and toe clip pedals, and I'm an overweight old man.

The last time I rode with a racer, he just kept saying, today is my rest day, and how uncompetitive steel was in the peloton. For a racer, he sure wasn't competitive.

Not saying I can keep up with a Cat 4 even, but it sure isn't the bike holding me back.

Any of you SEEN OFG? Fat old guy, my ass! Has great bikes, tho.

There are some races around here where you might be able to get away with DT shifters, but most crits, especially if there's a hill or two, you would be at a decided disadvantage without STI.


STI: depends on the rider, I think. And the venue.

I think we said the same thing.

And on the subject of bike/rider relationship... I've seen a fairly fit 40 something on a recumbent do a club ride and drop younger, thinner guys ... going uphill. I suspect there was a big difference in quality saddle hours between them, however.

I have heard, however, that brand name placebos are 20% more effective than generic, so I can totally see the point about everybody riding the exact same stuff ;)

Bumping this thread for a few pictures from Sunday's Cherry Pie Crit. I did the Cat 4 race on my 86 Gazelle. This isn't the race I would have chosen for steel, but a broken cable boss on my CF Trek forced me to press the Dutch Rocket into service.

I'm in the white and black kit trying to make a move on the outside:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/CalOso/cherrypieoutside.jpg

And here's a better shot of the bike:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/CalOso/cherrypiegazelle.jpg

I finished out of the money but I did manage to take a prime ($15 gift certificate from the LBS). But what's best is the fact that my bike is older than some of the other riders, judging from the college bike team kits I saw.

A full Campy 70's Cinelli and all that retro kit bought today is probably not much cheaper than a full blown modern carbon bike.

As for performance, motor is motor.

not to mention on other days he probably rides his Cervelo R3 full sram red with Zipp wheels.

I love posts like this. I ride my steel Lemond with downtube shifters on all my training rides down here in Socal. Everyone has 4K bikes and up. I love it when young guys are looking at me and wondering where that "snap" "snap" sound is coming from (STI downtube shifters).
I was on the Como ride once and I swear Flandis was looking at the shifters while I rode next to him. Funny.
(p.s., I have nothing against Landis, he's a good rider, people are nice to him, he's nice to everyone and keeps the pack from going nuts).

I raced an old steel frame with updated STI 9 speed for my first few races. It sure wasn't the bike that was holding me back. As far as racing with DT shifters, I don't think I'd want to do crits, as somebody else mentioned, but a RR would probably be fine.

After reading some of CDR's posts in the racing forum, I set up one of my old steel frames with bar end shifters and cut the drops short so that I could reach them while holding on in the drops. I can shift this bike while standing and sprinting; it'd probably be fine for crits, other than being sort of a heavy POS to begin with. :)

http://www.secondhandsix.com/temp/bikes/Fuji_S12_race_001.jpg

I took this pic with the spare race wheels as sort of a joke; the bike's actually set up currently with rack and fenders as my commuter.

I rode my first triathlon on a Schwinn Varsity I bought for $10 from a guy I'm pretty sure stole it.
I've seen that same triathlon won by a guy on a Cannondale touring bike that had a big basket on the front. 20 years later, the same triathlon is being won twice in a row by a guy on a Brew steel frame bike with Shimano 600 tricolor stuff. And there are folks in there whose rack costs a lot more than the winner's bike.

I think it's like bass fishing. Some folks do it for the boat.

'tis the engine, to be sure.

I think that any rider who feels good/comfortable throughout the duration of a race has a mental and physical advantage. My body feels better on steel, but I wouldn't want to compete with downtube shifters.

On descents, flats, sprints and particularly switchback corners my "old heavy" steel Waterford Paramount and my "old heavy" steel Serotta have never let me down when challenged by riders who weigh less than me, on new machines that cost thousands of dollars more.

I do get dropped on mountain climbs without a triple up front, but I'm working on resolving that issue on a couple of my race-worthy machines....

My steel MTB's can easily hang w/ the new-techs on technical, gnarly courses...

I've been messing with power metering this winter. I have trained for a couple of months, and my threshold (C60) power is up to 270 watts. Pretty good, I think, for an old fat guy in the winter. But I saw Thor Hushvold's power profile from a mountain stage a little while ago. He averaged 370 watts for almost 4 hours, and he is not a particularly good climber!

When you talk the difference between deep dish carbon wheels and open 4CD's you're down in the 20-30 watt range. As Lance pointed out...it ain't about the bike.

I rode my first triathlon on a Schwinn Varsity I bought for $10 from a guy I'm pretty sure stole it.
I've seen that same triathlon won by a guy on a Cannondale touring bike that had a big basket on the front. 20 years later, the same triathlon is being won twice in a row by a guy on a Brew steel frame bike with Shimano 600 tricolor stuff. And there are folks in there whose rack costs a lot more than the winner's bike.

I think it's like bass fishing. Some folks do it for the boat.

'tis the engine, to be sure.

Damn, I need to race where you live! When I raced the time trail series here the leaders were on full carbon aero TT rigs with disk wheels and all the goodies. I was 9 minutes off the pace on a 10 mile course. Not that the bike would have helped :o

Damn, I need to race where you live! When I raced the time trail series here the leaders were on full carbon aero TT rigs with disk wheels and all the goodies. I was 9 minutes off the pace on a 10 mile course. Not that the bike would have helped :oIn my last 10 mile time trial, I was 10 minutes off the fastest pace. I blew up early and everyone passed me, but I had a lot of fun anyway. I noticed the guy that got next to last was looking at my totally worn out bike with what appeared to be concern that I might beat him. I probably will this spring.

In my last 10 mile time trial, I was 10 minutes off the fastest pace. I blew up early and everyone passed me, but I had a lot of fun anyway. I noticed the guy that got next to last was looking at my totally worn out bike with what appeared to be concern that I might beat him. I probably will this spring.

Well good luck my friend, I hope you do well. Due to my slacking this winter I doubt I'll be competing this spring. At any rate I grew frustrated with the fact that while the Pro-Cat 1-2 guys were running close to 21:00 the Cat 4 35+ and Cat 45 guys were running 21:30 so there was no room for guys like me. I did beat my friend by .1 seconds for our best time of the series which was fun but overall it just wasn't worth it.

Damn, I need to race where you live! When I raced the time trail series here the leaders were on full carbon aero TT rigs with disk wheels and all the goodies. I was 9 minutes off the pace on a 10 mile course. Not that the bike would have helped :o
We have a lot of those guys, too. Full kit, Fisher-Price rolling ads for conspicuous consumption. They're nice, but not as fun as the old guys on steel, or even the young guys on steel, for that matter.

of course.

But put a pro on a vintage where the engines are all near their peak performance and I think they would be at a huge disadvantage.

There's this guy who used to race back in the seventies on steel bikes. He set a lot of records that still stand today. Let me see, oh yeah I think his name was Eddy Merckx. Yeah that's it Eddy Merckx. He didn't need CF and Ti on his bikes to beat the other pros. He rode bikes like a lot of the high end bikes we lust after here. I guess they forgot to tell him you can't go fast on a steel ride.

There's this guy who used to race back in the seventies on steel bikes. He set a lot of records that still stand today. Let me see, oh yeah I think his name was Eddy Merckx. Yeah that's it Eddy Merckx. He didn't need CF and Ti on his bikes to beat the other pros. He rode bikes like a lot of the high end bikes we lust after here. I guess they forgot to tell him you can't go fast on a steel ride.

When Eddy rode, everything in the peloton was steel.

Eddy rides carbon today.


Just sayin'

as some of you have surely noted, the Furnace 508 is offering a pre-'83 class this year. No brifters, no clipless pedals, no nothing post-83. And, nothing but steel allowed. hombre-up. they leveled the playing field.

And just where are we supposed to find the leather shoes with slotted cleats to wear with those toeclips?

One of the reasons I bought my rather mundane CF-framed Felt was because it was becoming too difficult to find brake lever hoods and freewheels for my old Gios.

I don't get hung up on equipment. Steel with 7-speed freewheels and friction shifters is fun for the hell of it, but I'll go with carbon and dual control levers now that they're available.

Showing up a a casual group ride with sub-1300 gram wheels is ******ism, but riding a 30-year old bike well is a history lesson.

And just where are we supposed to find the leather shoes with slotted cleats to wear with those toeclips?

One of the reasons I bought my rather mundane CF-framed Felt was because it was becoming too difficult to find brake lever hoods and freewheels for my old Gios.

LOL...I'd bet that'd be the least of your problems on that ride! But the shoes are out there and Yellow Jersey has slotted cleats with a Look three bolt pattern that fit modern shoes so you don't have any excuses. ;) :D

The brake hood thing is annoying. Campy could AND SHOULD release a new supply. I mean it's not like they have to tool up and do it themselves. Just license the danged logo to a third party to whip up a batch of a few thousand and we'd be good to go for years to comes. Some of the others might be more problematic as they are out of business and it might be hard to find out who owns the rights to the logos. Universals would be great.

Freewheels are plentiful these days but the aesthetics are an issue for pre-80's bikes since they tend to come in shiny chrome silver instead of the old gold ones. I've thought of taking one apart and bringing it to a metal plater to have it plated in the right color but maybe that getting a bit too anal. :o

And just where are we supposed to find the leather shoes with slotted cleats to wear with those toeclips?



Bobcat is right...nobody but those ultra rich Keirin racers have those. The rules need to change just that part. I wonder if you need freewheels and not cassettes also. I wonder if they will check for cartridge bearings too....there's a lot to think about....

And if it is a pre-83 race, surely it has to be sew ups. Nobody, nobody raced in clinchers back then. The technology was not even close.

There's this guy who used to race back in the seventies on steel bikes. He set a lot of records that still stand today. Let me see, oh yeah I think his name was Eddy Merckx. Yeah that's it Eddy Merckx. He didn't need CF and Ti on his bikes to beat the other pros. He rode bikes like a lot of the high end bikes we lust after here. I guess they forgot to tell him you can't go fast on a steel ride.

Don't kid yourself about Eddy - he rode on the very best of everything that was then available. Eddy was and remains a God. No question is the best there has yet been on the road, and by a pretty wide margin. But he got all the highest-zoot steel built by only the very best builders, the most drilled-out-for-lightness components (hey, his sponsors and he could afford to replace everything as many times as necessary), and whatever else was new and great at the time. That's not why he won -- his incredible physical ability mated to a primal need to win every single time were the real reasons for his success -- but he certainly wasn't about to leave the tech side to chance, either.

In his successful 1972 Hour Record attempt, Eddy had what was considered at the time to be the most outrageously lightweight purpose-built bike ever (Colnago built it - ignore the Windsor strickers), and many at the time claimed that it gave him an unfair advantage over prior record holders Coppi and Anquetil.

The point is that technology will always march forward, and some will embrace it, some won't, and some will pick and choose what they take and what they leave. Even so top-drawer a racer as Sean Kelly raced in the Monuments in toe clips and straps years after every other pro had gone clipless.

I'm not sure anyone should be feeling "superior" to anyone else based solely on gear or kit. Ride what you like and what you can afford in the way you like. If you like to race, race. If you like to smell the roses along the way, go for it. Carbon fiber everything on your bike is your goal? Have at it. If Cambio Corsas float your boat, ride 'em, cowboy. But perhaps we should all be a little more concerned about our own selves and a little less concerned about what anyone else rides or how fast they ride it.

We have a lot of those guys, too. Full kit, Fisher-Price rolling ads for conspicuous consumption. They're nice, but not as fun as the old guys on steel, or even the young guys on steel, for that matter.

I don't mind their bikes and equipment as much as the sand baggers - there is no legitimate catagory structure here. Cat 4 is filled with middle aged expert class mountain bikers and elite triathletes who don't have official road category ratings, Cat 4 35+ is the same with the 30-something set, and Cat 45, etc is filled with older Pro and Cat 1-2 guys who are only seconds slower than they were back in the day. There's no place for beginners or the cycling enthusiast who just wants to get out and get his blood pumping on occasion.

If there was a catagory for the cycling equivalent of those moms running 10k's with the baby strollers and fat guys smoking cigars as they jog through the 5k I'd ride a steel bike and race there :) That'd be like Cat 6 or 7 :D

At least 85% of a cruising cyclist's energy goes into overcoming his/her own air resistance. A comparable percentage of a climbing cyclist's effort goes into overcoming gravity from his/her own mass. Tire rolling resistance is a much smaller, but significant factor. The bicycle itself can make only about a 1% difference in performance, at best. If one is racing, tha 1% is everything. For everyone else, it is inconsequential.

And just where are we supposed to find the leather shoes with slotted cleats to wear with those toeclips?


Bobcat is right...nobody but those ultra rich Keirin racers have those. The rules need to change just that part.

What about just wearing Adidas Sambas? Pre-'83 technology, safer than slotted cleats, classic look and easy to hop off the bike and walk around.

One of my pleasures is dropping the Ti and carbon full kit club boys riding my pink De Rosa, with down tube shifters and toe clip pedals ...

+1 ... this is a big part of what motivates me to stay/get in shape, so I can go fast with the modern pack on those early spring fast club rides.

PS - caloso, you and the Gazelle look great in the racing pics. I would not have picked it out as an old steel bike in the first pic.

I've showed this picture here before but what the hell I'll show it off again :D

I did this race last year on my '83 Guerciotti full Campy NR. IT's a local classic race that goes way back to the seventies and I like riding the old bike just for the fun of it. And actually she handles it just fine.

http://ww2.hereweare.us:8080/images/bikes/races/Carolina%20Cup%2007/ccup.png

PS - caloso, you and the Gazelle look great in the racing pics. I would not have picked it out as an old steel bike in the first pic.

Thanks! There's a road race in August that I think may perfectly suit the Gazelle. Rollers, lots of crosswinds, and then a flat, fast finish.

If there was a catagory for the cycling equivalent of those moms running 10k's with the baby strollers and fat guys smoking cigars as they jog through the 5k I'd ride a steel bike and race there :) That'd be like Cat 6 or 7

cat 7 is the alleycat. I know I'm gonna catch S**it for comparing Alleycats to road racing but I feel like nothing approximates the environment you're looking for more. Ours get a lot of drews and 'fixie' kids but some very serious racers, fast guys, messengers, and all around cycling buffs show up too. They offer an opportunity to ride as fast as you want, with whatever group you want on any type of gear. Traffic and geography are a pretty great equalizer real world skills are rewarded, and there's usually a party afterward! Last year's course desmorts had a $10 entry fee and offered best lady a hand made track frame, and best man a set of ksyriums. Not bad.