Road Bike Racing - So do you guys inflate your power numbers...?

I'm curious...

I read lots of posts here with absurd power outputs (even if we put it in w/kg). Like, they absolutely blow anything I can do out of the water. Yet, I'm throwing down just fine in the 1/2/3/4 weekly crit, have played with (and even beaten) some 1/2's in recent TT's, and am doing just fine against some other strong Cat 3's right now in my races.

So, the obvious question is... Are you all underperforming, and I overperforming, or is it sort of like a which **** is bigger contest, and everyone kind of fudges it?

I don't fudge power numbers. I post screen shots from Power Agent. If anyone has the incentive to inflate his laughable watts, it's Pcad. I'm actually a bit surprised, they're a little better than I expected them to be.

I'm not accusing anyone, haha! I just see lots of things like 5 w/Kg FTP thrown out there and stuff like that.

Racing has more to it than power numbers as you know. I know a few guys that have tons of watts but no brains. That being said, I have a miserable FTP, 315w at 89 kilos and I do fine in the Cat 3 races, but no I don't fudge it(very much a sprinter profile). It is finally starting to rise though. I beat a few guys in the TT today that I've never beaten before.

I'd be happy at over 4w/kg. I graduated in the best shape of my life at 84 kg(hockey player). To hit 5w/kg would be 420w! I can't imagine that. My goal right now is 350w at 86-87kg.

Absolutely. We have nothing better to do than manipulate WKO+ screens in graphics programs. Power and power/wt. don't determine the outcome of races. If so, Tom Danielson would be one of the world's most dominant riders rather than a glass figurine.

I know a few guys that have tons of watts but no brains.

Dude, if I had the watts some of my pals have I'd be a Cat 1.5. I'm like a great marksman with no ammunition.

it's sorta like asking someone their SAT score. easy to inflate and hard\impossible to verify.

Eh... Again, I'm not saying anything about the people that post their WKO+ screens, but I mean, my numbers are dwarfed by a lot of what gets thrown around here and I still managed to attack a field 5-7x today before finally getting into the break that won.

Eh... Again, I'm not saying anything about the people that post their WKO+ screens, but I mean, my numbers are dwarfed by a lot of what gets thrown around here and I still managed to attack a field 5-7x today before finally getting into the break that won.

I'm just being a smart a**, but seriously, the raw numbers don't mean much. I was beaten in a 5k TT by two seconds yesterday and averaged 378 watts/382 normalized. I was talking to the guy that beat me after the race and he probably did not even put out 300. He was just more aero when it counted and managed the course and conditions better than I did. Oh and a lot lighter. He just rode a smarter race.

So this is just a look at me thread without WKO screen shots?

:p

J/K

I may never know. On one hand I want a Ptap to see exactly where I am compared to others here. On the other hand I don't want to know because I may be very, very sad.

I may never know. On one hand I want a Ptap to see exactly where I am compared to others here. On the other hand I don't want to know because I may be very, very sad.

You will own one. As stated before, the dark side is very patient.

You will own one. As stated before, the dark side is very patient.

I loathe you ;)

edit: Anyhoo, it ain't going to be anytime soon. I just spent 500 clams on plumbing repair. Bike schwag cash down the drain - literally.

no inflations, but at 3.84 w/kg my numberz arent really too impressive. that said, I enter every race knowing I can win, just as it seems you do, UTdude.

This is what makes bike racing so much fun for me, and what makes TT's and triathlons seem much less fun (although I respect the hell out of TTers and triathletes).

Knowing and utilizing YOUR strengths and downplaying your weaknesses is tremendously important and tons of fun for me. And on top of that, we get to manipulate our training to try and improve weaknesses while maintaining and honing strengths.

having great numbers is nice, winning races is nicer.

-L

i dont think people are inflating numbers i think its just being proved that you need more than brute strength to win most races.

If I did inflate my numbers I'd at least make them respectable....

I'm not accusing anyone, haha! I just see lots of things like 5 w/Kg FTP thrown out there and stuff like that.

I'll bet you can count on one hand the number of regular posters in the race forum who have ridden an hour at 5w/kg, and still have fingers to spare. Several more have done a 20-minute effort at that power output I'd bet, but the number is still pretty small.

Of course, there's more to racing than just power output from what I understand. Take CDR for example. That guy is my hero.

--Steve

No. I'm proud of my 264 watt threshold.

I'll bet you can count on one hand the number of regular posters in the race forum who have ridden an hour at 5w/kg, and still have fingers to spare.

Haha, I can only imagine holding 420w for an hour. That would be the best TT of my life.

Personally I'm amazed at some of the power people can put out too. And it's not just internet stuff, I'm talking the power the guys around me in a race are doing, i.e. I know the numbers are for real.

My 20 min power is 2.95w/kg based on my current weight and current fitness. I can't find a chart of category to w/kg but I think it's pretty low. This was on a training ride. I haven't hit this in a race.

My sprint power is debatable but it's about 17.5 w/kg peak, 16.3 w/kg for 5 second, based on a ride in California in early Feb. I haven't come even close to that in the cold Northeast, including three field sprints where I got second, second, and first (for the field, one won the race, the other two netted me 4th and 7th in the race). Nevertheless I'm pretty sure that this is a decent sprint based on that same chart.

I haven't done a real sprint recently so I'm looking forward to doing a few sprints to try and peg the tach, so to speak. For me a real sprint is on a flat road - all my sprints in races have been going up hill and I haven't finished a sprint thinking "Man, I rocked on that one".

My 1 min and 5 min w/kg are pretty poor if I recall. Recently my highest numbers are 6.36 w/kg for a min and 3.41 w/kg for 5 minutes (at a very hard race where I ended up winning).

The only place where I saw empirical proof of wattage lying is where a guy posted some data backing up his "fast climb power chart". After a lot of debate and hemming and hawing the guy posted his raw data. He got slammed as people pointed out his heart rate was bouncing around in a nice pattern (like 40-60-90bpm, every second, or something like that) and his power was doing the same thing. It was basically a lot of copy/pasting type patterns, sort of a spreadsheet version of photochopping pictures. Anyway, I think I saw it in cyclingforums and I'm pretty sure the thread got deleted. Anyone recall this or have a link?

cdr

Of course, there's more to racing than just power output from what I understand. Take CDR for example. That guy is my hero.

lol. I told the missus that someone posted something about sheltering in races and that someone said something along the lines of "to really know how to do it, 'you need to ask someone with an absurdly low FTP like CDR' "

She looked at me, wondering if I was hurt by this or if I thought this was funny.

My big grin told her everything.

cdr

I was skeptical about the Ptap, but after having one for 5 months, I really like it. The more I use it, the more I want to learn how to use it more effectively. Amazing training tool.

In addition, and more importantly, the inherent OCP Schwag Factor can not be overstated.

The only place where I saw empirical proof of wattage lying is where a guy posted some data backing up his "fast climb power chart". After a lot of debate and hemming and hawing the guy posted his raw data. He got slammed as people pointed out his heart rate was bouncing around in a nice pattern (like 40-60-90bpm, every second, or something like that) and his power was doing the same thing. It was basically a lot of copy/pasting type patterns, sort of a spreadsheet version of photochopping pictures. Anyway, I think I saw it in cyclingforums and I'm pretty sure the thread got deleted. Anyone recall this or have a link?
You may be thinking of this from Slowtwitch. Warning: the thread is long, the link is to the middle of it (but it's around what you're talking about).

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/gforum.cgi?post=1576059;search_string=joaquin;#1576059

Are you all underperforming

Some people, myself included, have good FTP but don't jump/accelerate/sprint well.

My 1 min and 5 min w/kg are pretty poor if I recall. Recently my highest numbers are 6.36 w/kg for a min and 3.41 w/kg for 5 minutes (at a very hard race where I ended up winning).

CDR - you've GOT to have some more than that. Srsslsly. I've seen the videos.

Power numbers?

What power numbers?

I weigh 170........ got to put out more power to keep up with you light weights!

Absolutely. We have nothing better to do than manipulate WKO+ screens in graphics programs. Power and power/wt. don't determine the outcome of races. If so, Tom Danielson would be one of the world's most dominant riders rather than a glass figurine.


1. Open up WKO
2. Click raw data
3. Edit
4. Save

1. Open up WKO
2. Click raw data
3. Edit
4. Save

Not if Robert Chung is watching.

My guess is that the power numbers are real. Races aren't made up of 60 minute efforts, 20 minute efforts, or 10 minute efforts (unless a time trial). Racing is about the variablity (which is why I only do well with TT's). CDR has a paltry threshold W/kg compared to many of you, but his intelligence, and ability to react tu surges is what sets his results apart. In fact, I would guess that the people who have the most results have the best ability to react to surges, and cyclingpeaks has no "reacts-to-surges" mensuration that I know of.

I weigh 170........ got to put out more power to keep up with you light weights!

I haven't weighed myself in a bit, but I weighed like 145 when I checked before season.

I've probably gained some weight from stress eating (eat lots of chocolate and drink tons of sweet coffee when stressed for work), and from lack of being able to put in the bigger miles (40-50 for me haha).

Ugh, now I want to weigh myself tomorrow morning. This could be ugly.

There are MFA (More Friggin Acronyms) in this friggin Power Meter Crap (PMC) than you can Shake a Stick At (SSA).

Today I set a new PR for 5 min SSA.

I've been honest with my numbers. I think I've got a really strong 5s - 1m power range, but that turns out not to be the most important value. Still, I have backed it up with a road race win against one of the strongest time-trialists in Austin.

If you look at my FTP though, I don't think it's high enough that anyone would lie to get there :)

You got me in the long TTs -- very strong, but if you wanna try a kilo or Jester or something... ;)

I am in the middle of calibrating my Ergomo. I have 1 ride worth of raw data and data from part of another ride. If these numbers are accurate (I'll know after a few more rides) then this unfit, 44 year old has some pretty average numbers right now!

Even so, I can use my smarts to finish top 3 in our local weekly training race.

When I first started riding, my mentor was a guy who was 2 time Canadian Junior RR champion. He hadn't raced in years, at this point, but could still hang with us just by knowing when to work and when not to. I can't overstate how important this is in terms of placing in real races.

At about this same time, there was a guy who worked in the shop with us who was an insanely strong cat2 (not a memory trick, this was the consensus with other local guys) but could never podium. The guy was as smart as a sack of hammers. He just couldn't read a race. I bet he had great numbers.

IMHO, to do well you need smarts and numbers - in that order. You can work on the numbers but the smarts...

I wish. My Polar reports really impressive numbers, but after WKO gets a hold of those files, those power numbers go down quite a bit. I've checked things with the Kroettzer site and the power meter is working fine. The WKO numbers are spot on.

Todays race for instance. Check this out

Race Before Stoppage - 8 laps:
Duration: 36:30
Work: 426 kJ
TSS: 64.6 (intensity factor 1.03)
Norm Power: 273
VI: 1.4
Pw:HR: -4.47%
Pa:HR: 1.15%
Distance: 16.012 mi
Elevation Gain: 710 ft
Elevation Loss: 730 ft
Grade: -0.0 % (-20 ft)
Min Max Avg
Power: 0 928 195 watts
Heart Rate: 101 178 160 bpm
Cadence: 41 118 99 rpm
Speed: 0 37.9 26.3 mph
Pace 1:35 0:00 2:17 min/mi
Altitude: 215 295 264 ft
Crank Torque: 0 862 165 lb-in

I get better power numbers from my solo workouts. After a 40min stoppage they restarted the race with 4 to go. I did one laps and pulled off. I had burned all my matches. I had zero left to go 3 more. The power numbers on the face offer no clues, but i did some fast find and I did a lot of 400+ watt efforts that sucked it out of me. 30% of the race I did no pedalling at all. So that explains the low avg power. Unfortuantely I think the Normalized power is not reflective of my effort either. What i have noticed about the Polar avg power readouts is that they coorelate real well with WKO normalized power numbers. Except for this race. The Polar had the race as 340 watts avg. When i was done, it felt like it too. My FTP is about 265 right now.

Doesn't seem much sense to inflate the power numbers, but most of us that post power data also post the graphs, etc... Inflated power data doesn't take much work to see if you see the graph - or better yet the file.

Power != results, as I can attest to.

no, I dont inflate any #s. Mine are always quite a bit less than those posted on here, but I weigh like 67 kg so it doesnt worry me much. I managed to finish 7th in a stacked 30+/40+ race today, so I'm doing OK.

I also managed to get caught up in a crash in a 3/4 race and broke my shifters, helmet, and get a bunch of road rash on my hip, elbow, and tire marks on my back.

you got off easy

^understood

no, I dont inflate any #s. Mine are always quite a bit less than those posted on here, but I weigh like 67 kg so it doesnt worry me much. I managed to finish 7th in a stacked 30+/40+ race today, so I'm doing OK.

I also managed to get caught up in a crash in a 3/4 race and broke my shifters, helmet, and get a bunch of road rash on my hip, elbow, and tire marks on my back.

Congrats and sorry. I was right behind that crash and thru some miracle i managed not to go down or run anyone over laying on the ground. I've never done a stoppie on a bicycle before. :eek:

i was behind that crash too and i thought i was going to get around but people were crashing on either side of my trying to avoid it so i had to slow down almost to a stop right before it and i got plowed into from behind.

i was behind that crash too and i thought i was going to get around but people were crashing on either side of my trying to avoid it so i had to slow down almost to a stop right before it and i got plowed into from behind.

that's bad luck. plus, you got a really crappy leadout for a prime, that dude must have been cooked from the earlier race and didnt realize it until about 400M.

that leadout started a nice little break for a while

Moral of my thread....

Maybe Brains > Braun. I still don't know how I'm doing what I'm doing right now with my numbers, though. In yesterday's hill climb TT, which is almost pure W/Kg, I held my own just fine.

WKO+ has me as a 5 on my 5s power, untrained on my 1m power, a solid 3 on my 5 min power, and a strong 4 on my FTP. I know the WKO+ stuff is total BS, but if you compare my numbers to....say....well, I dunno, and it doesn't matter, but mine seem waaaaaaay low to me, like, people should be able to ride me off their wheel low.

Why is this so confusing to me?

Why is this so confusing to me?

Because you are a longhorn, its not your fault. :D;)

maybe you don't test well?

My numbers are not inflated, and can be verified by others. I would keep in mind that most of the people who would bother to post up numbers would be proud of them. I've worked very hard for my results, both racing and testing. As to why some people with ridiculous numbers are cat 4's and such, I don't know. I'm a 1 or a 2 on the power profile chart thingies, and I'm a 2 in real life. I see people with higher numbers than me who can't win a 3 race... whaaa?

You're racing a lot better than this time last year. Remember the ATT Crit? Do your power numbers reflect this improvement?

You and I haven't ridden in the same event other than RunFar, but you're clearly MUCH stronger in that event than last year. Seems like the power improvements should be showing up for this.

I'll hopefully be at a 3/4 crit in the next few weeks, so we can compare notes a bit there :D

EDIT: a big +1 to possibly not testing well. I think I test so well that after each one, I worry that I'll never be able to produce another effort like that one.

Where exactly is that chart that people keep talking about? I want to save it but I can never find it.

Where exactly is that chart that people keep talking about? I want to save it but I can never find it.

Do a google search for Coggan Power Profile.