Are you able to ride your folder w/o hands?

[v6v6v6]

Captain Spaulding brought this up during our LA ride... I'm not able to and I certainly miss it. :(

[rhm]

Captain Spaulding brought this up during our LA ride... I'm not able to and I certainly miss it. :(

Thanks for mentioning this; I've been meaning to start a thread about this myself. But to v6v6v6 and anyone else who replies: Please tell us, for the sake of comparison, what folder you CAN'T ride hands-free, versus what other bike(s) you CAN ride hands-free.

I used to commute on a Nashbar MTB frame with a non-suspension fork that I modified with a piece of machined brass that raised the front of the frame about 1.5" up the fork steerer tube -- in other words, effectively making the fork blades longer, or effectively relaxing the frame angles. On that bike I could do my whole 5 mile ride to the train station without touching the handlebars except to change gears, brake, etc.

On my Strida, I cannot ride no-hands; haven't even tried very hard, it's too twitchy.

On my Downtube Mini, I could ride no-hands marginally as originally set up; I improved that by changing the front tire to to a Schwalbe big apple (fattest tire available) and the rear to a Primo comet (thinnest available); now I can ride no hands pretty well but not as well as on my old commuter bike.

Raleigh Twenty, could not ride no-hands as originally set up, but I straightened the fork (reduced the trail a little) (as recommended by Jur, I think) and this made it possible to ride no-hands as well; but again, not as well as on my old commuter bike.

[Bacciagalupe]

I can't ride hands-free on either my Swift or Dahon.

I don't "miss it," but it's an indicator of the excessive responsiveness of those (particular?) bikes, which IMO makes them unsuitable for three specific purposes: fast group rides, long distance rides, and some types of touring.

[werewolf]

"Are you able to ride your folder w/o hands?"

I've never been good at riding ANY bike no hands. I attribute that to being top heavy - short legs, big upper body (not to mention being naturally clumsy). I couldn't even think about riding my skittish small-wheeler no handed.

[Foldable Two]

Yes and No.

I can ride my Bike Friday NWT hands-free, but not my Dahon Boardwalk S1.

However, since we ride in crowded city situations, or on questionable pavement much of the time, I do not find it practical or safe to do so.

[jur]

Swift - no, too little trail I suspect.
R20 - Y, as mentioned above
Mini - Y, suprisingly well on original tyres, but haven't tried with the new Big Apples yet. From a pure geometry POV, the trail should increase with bigger tyres, so I expect it to be easier still. Then with wider tyres, there is also an improvement.

Don't know about Connie's Reach and Yeah.

Over here it is against the law to ride no-hands. Dunno why, over-protective law-givers? :mad:

[gazer]

My NWT: Currently ride no-hands for pretty short distances. With more practice, maybe a bit longer and more confidently.

Not great compared to my old Schwinn Sierra (circa '89), on which I'd see how few times I could touch my handlebars on a former 5-mile commute route. (Typically late at night with no traffic... including obeying stop lights and such). It was in the low single digits.

[Herb]

With adequate speed I can go no hands on my Dahon MuP8. I just tried it today!

[4cmd3]

I cannot ride my Dahon Helios P8 no-handed.
Then again I haven't ridden anything no-handed, except my fixed indoor cycle.

[vik]

I can ride my Tikit hands free. It isn't as stable hands free as my touring bike, but then that's no surprise.

[DLBroox]

Can't ride the Dahon Curve no hands. What about standing? I've wanted to try but when I have, it feels like either I'll pitch forward or the bike will come apart.

Hope I'm not hijacking the thread...

[LittlePixel]

Can't ride my Raleigh Twenty or Brompton no-hands - both a bit too responsive though some of it is likely fear having not done it for about 20 years...
http://members.optusnet.com.au/enchilada/nohands/nohands-original.jpg

[sahadev]

DT IX - Sort of, if I really need to and really pay attention
R20 - No, with RST suspension fork. Yes, with fixed recumbent fork, but wobbly.
Bridgestone MB - Yes.

Every bike I have ever owned has wanted to veer to the left when I ride w/o hands. Why on earth would that be? The frames were fine(string tested them), so it has to be me.

How can I weigh myself one side at a time? That has to be it, one of my legs (and arms?) is probably much heavier than the other!! I'll try standing on the scale one leg at a time. :rolleyes: ;)

[stevegor]

I can ride my R20..The Wasp, no hands no problem, but I'm better at riding...NO BRAINS


....fair dinkum, what a strange question to post...I can see folder people all over the globe going over the handle bars in doomed attempts trying to achieve this....why not something more sane like "Who can pace the fastest behind a truck"? :eek:

[charles vail]

Now I know why cyclists these days feel the overwhelming need to wear a Styrofoam cushion on their head!:eek: Keep your hands on the bars.:rolleyes:

[jur]

Now I know why cyclists these days feel the overwhelming need to wear a Styrofoam cushion on their head!:eek: Keep your hands on the bars.:rolleyes:
I must say, I don't see the danger in riding no-hands as long as the road is smooth and the bike is stable.

[nigelme]

For some unfathomable reason I sometimes try to put gloves on whilst still peddling - I think it would waste time to stop - It always turns out to be dangerous rigmarole where both hands come off the bars.

Generally though, I don't see any advantage in losing steering control, even if it does look cool.

My brief test results for 'no hands' :-
Downtube IX and Moulton - Can
Brompton and Dahon - Can't

[James H Haury]

Yes I can it requires a smooth road and a wide saddle. Fat tires help too.

[rhm]

Now I know why cyclists these days feel the overwhelming need to wear a Styrofoam cushion on their head!:eek: Keep your hands on the bars.:rolleyes:

Yeah, yeah. The question was are you able to do something, not whether you make a habit of it.;)

I asked the same question in the Recumbent forum and there, too, was advised never to ride any bicycle no-hands. Yeah, yeah. The question I have, before I try out a new type of bike is: is it a safe design? Is it a good design? Is it stable? Whether or not you can ride it no-hands is a good gauge of stability.

In my opinion a bicycle should be stable enough that it can be steered by balance alone. This should be a basic requirement for any bicycle design. In the case of the Strida I'm willing to make an allowance because it's such a radical design and it folds up so well; in the case of the others, I take it as evidence that the designers didn't know what they were doing.

[Nachoman]

Yes for short distances on a Bike Friday Pocket Rocket.

[EastBiker]

.......in the case of the others, I take it as evidence that the designers didn't know what they were doing.

LOL

[Jagee]

I can ride briefly w/no hands on my R20. Not enough to look around too much or have a drink.

The real question, though, is one posed by Littlepixel: Can anyone go no-paws on a window sill while remaining in attack mode for an extended amount of time?

What a great shot!

[charles vail]

Yeah, yeah. The question was are you able to do something, not whether you make a habit of it.;)

I asked the same question in the Recumbent forum and there, too, was advised never to ride any bicycle no-hands. Yeah, yeah. The question I have, before I try out a new type of bike is: is it a safe design? Is it a good design? Is it stable? Whether or not you can ride it no-hands is a good gauge of stability.

In my opinion a bicycle should be stable enough that it can be steered by balance alone. This should be a basic requirement for any bicycle design. In the case of the Strida I'm willing to make an allowance because it's such a radical design and it folds up so well; in the case of the others, I take it as evidence that the designers didn't know what they were doing.


The fact that you can't ride some bicycles no hands has nothing to do with the qualifications of the designer and has more to do with rake and trail or alignment, not to mention, rider weight distribution and skill. Even tire size can affect the ability to ride no hands. My recumbent is very stable at speed but I can't take my hands off the bars and I don't bother trying.:rolleyes:

[SesameCrunch]

Downtube Mini - Yes, pretty comfortably now, especially with the Big Apples.

Merc - No, maybe for 5 ft before I have to grab on again.

Dahon Helios - Yes.

Strida - Wouldn't dream of trying :eek:

Downtube/Cruzbike recumbent - Starting to experiment with hands-free. The issue here is the Front Wheel Drive design, and not the trail of the bike, which is stable. With the FWD, when I pedal, the legs affect steering. I'm just starting to get a feel for hands-free, though.

[SesameCrunch]

Now I know why cyclists these days feel the overwhelming need to wear a Styrofoam cushion on their head!:eek: Keep your hands on the bars.:rolleyes:

Lighten up, Frances! :rolleyes:



(Obscure movie reference - two points to the first person who can identify the movie that made this line famous.)

[Lake_Tom]

^ Was that Harold Ramis or Bill Murray?

[Fat Boy]

Stripes

[Fat Boy]

Sgt. Hulka

[SesameCrunch]

Sgt. Hulka

Ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!!!

:beer::beer::beer:

[v6v6v6]

Plenty of reasons to ride no-hands: take a drink, stretch out a little, munch on snacks, etc. I don't think we're talking about riding across town or anything (at least I'm not).

It's probably been about 20 years since I tried this, although I thought it'd be easy to pick up again like... well, like riding a bike! :)

[rhm]

The fact that you can't ride some bicycles no hands has nothing to do with the qualifications of the designer and has more to do with rake and trail or alignment, not to mention, rider weight distribution and skill. Even tire size can affect the ability to ride no hands. My recumbent is very stable at speed but I can't take my hands off the bars and I don't bother trying.:rolleyes:

I assume rake, trail (and to a lesser extent tire size) are the responsibility of the designer, whatever his/her qualifications.

[CaptainSpalding]

I assume rake, trail (and to a lesser extent tire size) are the responsibility of the designer, whatever his/her qualifications.
Yes they are the designer's responsibility. And don't think there's anything accidental about the angles of any bike frame. I agree with your general assertion that whether or not a bike can be ridden with no hands is a good gauge of stability. Where we part ways is where you say that it should be a basic requirement of any bike that it can be steered by balance alone. As with anything, designing and building a bike involves compromises. The designer will have in mind a purpose for the bike. Sometimes the designer will want the bike to be quick steering. For bikes that are meant to be good climbers (personally, I prefer a bike whose design is biased toward climbing. I've often used my brakes on a decent because I felt I was going too fast. I've never felt I was going to fast on the climb. ;) ) To have quick steering, one must sacrifice stability. In the case of our folding bikes, probably the head tube angle is a little steeper to make the folded size smaller, rather than to make the steering quicker. I'm just sayin'. . .

[stevegor]

This question reminds me of a story.........

Little Johnny gets a shiny new bike for his birthday and after a few little spills he masters the art of staying upright, then in gleeful boyish delight he gets Mum to watch him as he rides around the block,
showing off his new-found skills:

1st lap: "Look Mum...NO HANDS"
2nd lap: "Look Mum...NO FEET"
3rd lap: "Look Mum...NO HANDS 'n NO FEET"
4th lap: "Look Mum...NO TEEFF"

[EastBiker]

I assume rake, trail (and to a lesser extent tire size) are the responsibility of the designer, whatever his/her qualifications.

And your qualifications for judging whether a bike designer knows what he's doing is your ability to ride the bike with no hands? Hilarious.

[ZoneRanger]

I can ride my Dahon Mu P24 no-handed, but it's not easy, and I don't think I can turn. I'll have to try it a little more, to see what my final word is regarding this issue.

[Pine Cone]

This question reminds me of a story.........

Little Johnny gets a shiny new bike for his birthday and after a few little spills he masters the art of staying upright, then in gleeful boyish delight he gets Mum to watch him as he rides around the block,
showing off his new-found skills:

1st lap: "Look Mum...NO HANDS"
2nd lap: "Look Mum...NO FEET"
3rd lap: "Look Mum...NO HANDS 'n NO FEET"
4th lap: "Look Mum...NO TEEFF"

Had to laugh:D

Reminds me of how I discovered how I could stop without brakes by putting my foot on the front wheel when I was about 9 years old. Quickly discovered how this method can cause the bike to flip over a day later:eek:

A year later I broke my leg while riding on my day-old Christmas bike as I explored how the bike worked while coasting when standing on one pedal... It didn't work so well when I ran into a huge hedge:D

Lucky for me it was a Schwinn Varsity so the bike wasn't damaged at all!

I'm sure an objective observer would wonder why I still like to ride...

[Torrilin]

And your qualifications for judging whether a bike designer knows what he's doing is your ability to ride the bike with no hands? Hilarious.

I know I wouldn't send a novice to my dad if they wanted a nice stable and easy to fly model airplane... his specialty as an airplane designer is very agile designs that can do acrobatics at high speeds. For me, such airplanes are easy to manage. I'm sure there are similarly specialized bike designers and bike designs. That doesn't mean they're *bad* but it does mean their work might not suit some riders' needs. In some cases, a design can be dangerous if it's far enough from the user's needs... not good. And if there are few users who can get a design to work for the intended purpose, I think it's fair to say the design is bad.

Since many folders are sold as commuter/city bikes, I'd think stability (so the rider can signal turns) would be of some concern to the designer. IME, a bike that leaves the rider terrified about the idea of riding no hands tends to be a bike where signaling turns is hard. Since states tend to require a continuous signal for at least 100 feet, having turn signals be hard to give is bad. So... some of these designs may well be bad.

(and yes, often law enforcement gives cyclists a pass on signaling requirements. that doesn't mean we should avoid signaling, and that doesn't mean we should buy bikes for road use where we can't signal.)

[energyandair]

I know I wouldn't send a novice to my dad if they wanted a nice stable and easy to fly model airplane... his specialty as an airplane designer is very agile designs that can do acrobatics at high speeds. For me, such airplanes are easy to manage. I'm sure there are similarly specialized bike designers and bike designs. That doesn't mean they're *bad* but it does mean their work might not suit some riders' needs. In some cases, a design can be dangerous if it's far enough from the user's needs... not good. And if there are few users who can get a design to work for the intended purpose, I think it's fair to say the design is bad.

Since many folders are sold as commuter/city bikes, I'd think stability (so the rider can signal turns) would be of some concern to the designer. IME, a bike that leaves the rider terrified about the idea of riding no Additionallyhands tends to be a bike where signaling turns is hard. Since states tend to require a continuous signal for at least 100 feet, having turn signals be hard to give is bad. So... some of these designs may well be bad.

(and yes, often law enforcement gives cyclists a pass on signaling requirements. that doesn't mean we should avoid signaling, and that doesn't mean we should buy bikes for road use where we can't signal.)There is a big difference in stability between no hands and one hand .

Additionally, I've almost never seen a cyclist signal for 100 ft. On a steep uphill, it is likely to be impossible for most riders. Without two hands on the bars, you are always slower in making a controlled change in direction in response to an emergency. In my view, a general practice of signalling for 100 ft on a bike is not safe riding practice.

David

[Simple Simon]

Good point Torrin, many levels of rider experience, fitness, natural balance, many bike types .. so its hard to generalise.

In my limited experience...
700c Road bike - easy
26" Whyte MTB - OK
Old 20" shopper ... just about
Strida - Only just ... on a smooth road - downhill
Brompton - hardly
Recombent - hardly .. even with both hands on bars :D

[-patrick]

... but smaller wheels inherently have less trail.

A designer can compensate for the smaller wheels by increasing rake or slackening the headtube, but that may not always be what is wanted.

Personally, the ability to be ridden no-hands is not a selection criterion for me.

Squirrelly isn't bad; just different.

Think of the road as a lever trying to push your wheel around, and you and your handlebars as a lever trying to push it the other way: HIGH mechanical trail, the road has a SHORT lever and you can steer quite easily, no-handed even. LOW mechanical trail, the road has a LONG lever and you have to put more effort into overcoming it.

Another way of thinking about it: Your steering system is the lever,and when you have HIGH trail, the fulcrum is far away from you; when you have LOW trail, the fulcrum is far away from the road.

[Mr. Smith]

Captain Spaulding brought this up during our LA ride... I'm not able to and I certainly miss it. :(

Nope.

[ZoneRanger]

I can ride my Dahon Mu P24 no-handed, but it's not easy, and I don't think I can turn. I'll have to try it a little more, to see what my final word is regarding this issue.

I still didn't try to turn, but riding no-handed was pretty easy today. It seemed as if I could ride like that forever. I may have had a slight head wind and I wondered if that made it easier than I remembered it being.

[Rob_E]

Great question. I've been thinking about this lately. I rode an old Schwinn growing up. I wish I could remember the model, and riding hands free was never a problem. Now I'm riding a Marin hybrid, and if I move my hand more than an inch away from the handle bars, I'm asking for trouble. I wasn't sure if years of biking sporadically and/or on poorly fitting bikes or my decreased level of fitness had caused my inability to ride hands-free. But my Tote-Cycle feels much more stable. I still don't know that I can ride hands-free, especially not now that it only has one wheel, but I suspect that once I get some straight wheels on there, it will be much easier to ride hands-free than my current commuter, in spite of the Tote-Cycle being a folder, of sorts, or at least collapsable.

What aspect of the geometry makes the bike stable, or not stable, enough for hands-free riding? I feel like the wheel base must be a factor. And one thing that makes the ToteCycle feel more stable is, I think, the fact that I'm sitting closer to the middle of the bike, distributing my weight more evenly, whereas on the Marin I feel like I'm sitting on the back tire at times. But that's all conjecture on my part. I'd like to get that figured out before I buy my next bike though. Not that I have a huge desire to ride without touching the handle bars, but that sense of stability and balance is really nice and is currently missing from my daily rider.

[-patrick]

What aspect of the geometry makes the bike stable, or not stable, enough for hands-free riding?

MECHANICAL TRAIL.

[jur]

^ +1

Think of a shopping trolley's front wheels/castors. The ground contact point is behind the steering axis so pushing it forwards always results in the wheel aligning with travel direction. Exactly the same with a bike. But fork rake cancels out trail and with small wheels you can end up with very little trail, making riding no-hands difficult. Google/wiki it.

[silverodt]

I ride my BF Crusoe with no hands frequently. Of course the bike is more responsive than my 700cc road bike, but the balance on it isn't bad at all.

[rhm]

Anyone see this post?
Today's episode: A guy riding downhill, no hands....


... while playing bagpipes. No joke.


...
Only in NYC!!! :D

He does not mention whether it was a folding bike.

As I recall, someone posted a Youtube on this forum a while back, which was a music video showing a guy playing a guitar while riding what appeared to be a Dahon or other folder with 20" wheels. The video showed him doing this for pretty much the duration of the song, going around corners, through traffic, etc. with no problem. I presume it had been edited, but at any rate this guy could ride his folding bike no-hands better than I can ride mine.

When I was in Berlin about a month ago I saw a guy riding back from the store on his bike. He was carrying a case of beer (a big plastic box holding twenty half-liter bottles). He was using both hands to hold it when I saw him; no hands on the bars. I believe he could rest the case on one theigh if necessary and reach the handlebar with the other, if necessary... but I didn't see him do this. He was not riding a folding bike.

Some people seem to regard the whole "no-hands" thing as a crazy stunt. And on many folding bikes, it would be. Mark Sanders, designer of the Strida, claims he can ride his no-hands; I cannot. But many bicycles are wonderfully stable without hands on the bars. And when I recommend folding bikes to people who are not familiar with them, they often ask questions such as: is it as stable as a real bike? Can you ride it no-hand? To which I invariably have to answer: it IS a real bike but no, and yes, you can, but ... well, uh, no, not really.

So... would it be possible to design a folding bike, with 16" wheels, so stable that one could ride no-hands long enough to unzip a jacket, take a photograph, or... play the bagpipes?