OK, so I am rather new to cycling, and I've never owned a folding bike, but I do a lot of traveling and I like to travel under my own power. I am headed for sunny sydney australia and was wondering if perhaps instead of breaking down my bike for some Ausy touring, perhaps I should invest in a folding bike that can accept a rack and pans. Is this a good idea? I'll be doing alot of travel by train plane and bus as well, so breaking down and then rebuilding my bike will become tiresome.

Its a great idea.

Sydney is very spread out but has a good train system. It would be great to take a folder across town on the train then cycle from there. I can't recall seeing full size bikes on the suburban trains.

David

This will be my first trip to Australia and I'm going to visit family in Sydney and Melbourne. How bike friendly is it there?

Melbourne is pretty good in my experience, but Sydney is ugly, going by others' opinions.

FWIW, I've done some short tours with varying amounts of gear on folders, but none of those folders had a real touring geometry.

My results were a bit mixed. I found that my Dahon handled light loads pretty well (albeit a bit too low) and packed OK, but component-wise left much to be desired. It was also pretty easy to take on trains. The Swift was a little harder to pack and handled very poorly when loaded. I also never found a 20" tire that I really liked for touring, since for whatever reason the lower PSI tires feel kind of bouncy to me. The single chainring also turned out to be insufficient for really hilly rides.

Further, if you use a hard-shell suitcase for your bike (which I highly recommend), you have to do something with the case while you're traveling. Not a big deal, but it pretty much limits you to loops or esoteric solutions for carting the case around.

That said: if you're going to tour a lot, and fly several times, and can take care of the luggage, a folding bike may well be worth these disadvantages. I'd highly recommend a Bike Friday New World Tourist so you can get a custom fit, a good gearing range, and also for the more tour-oriented setup/geometry.

"Further, if you use a hard-shell suitcase for your bike (which I highly recommend), you have to do something with the case while you're traveling. Not a big deal, but it pretty much limits you to loops or esoteric solutions for carting the case around."

I beleive that there are Bike Friday models that use their hard cases as trailers that you can pull your gear in while touring.http://www.bikefriday.com/newworldtourist?sub=info

First class travel: With a New World Tourist, you'll never need to leave home without your "trusty companion!" It's sturdy enough to carry you across a continent, yet light enough for you to carry it without wasted effort. In less than thirty seconds, it folds compactly for easy transport by car, taxi, bus, train, boat or even light plane. And in just minutes, it packs into an optional suitcase which can be checked on most any airline as standard luggage without extra fees (and the suitcase can even be converted into a trailer to haul your gear). The New World Tourist is the ultimate in round-the-world travel convenience!

What do you guys think of the Dahon tournado? I was doing some reading about it on the Dahon site, it also seemed like a viable option. Anyone used it in the field?

Not a Tournado but I've travelled and ridden my S&S-coupled Frezoni quite a bit. There should be much difference with a Tournado in practice. Personally, I use the soft case, a hard case is a real pain.

I've toured fairly extensively on a Birdy and find it to be more comfy than a full sized bike. It can take front and rear panniers. There is no need for a lock, as the panniers can be taken off and the bike folded and brought inside when you go in to eat or sleep. Bike Friday is an other good option. Make sure to bring a simple nylon cover with you, as it will allow you to get into just about anywhere. (No one cares if you have luggage with you, but they occasionally care if the luggage is an uncovered bike.)

The other great thing about taking a folder with you to Australia is that you can sell it used for (possibly more than) what you would pay for it new in the US. This is especially true as the Aussie dollar approaches the US dollar in value.

http://www.pceo.org/S6300758.JPG

Here is me with the suitcase used to carry the bike:

http://www.pceo.org/S6300238.JPG

By the way, you'll need to disassemble the bike a bit unless you get a really big suitcase. There are suitcases for both the Birdy and Brompton that allow you to pack the bike completely assembled but folded. That takes about 30 seconds to pack!

I've just done my first load test with my Dahon Mu P8 tonight, and it works very well with 55lbs of cargo: I've put 10lbs in each pannier, 5 in a seatpost bag, and 10 in a small sling pack. The only major change to the bike itself was the change from the biologic saddle to a Brooks Imperial B17.

I'm getting the impression that its not that hard at all to do on a folding bike, and the Mu P8 isn't even close to being made for touring.

^ I count 35lbs, not 55...?

^ I count 35lbs, not 55...?

If he has 4 panniers it adds up to 55lbs....;)

If he has 4 panniers it adds up to 55lbs....;)

Vik has it, I have 4 panniers on the bike :)

I would also highly recommend a Bike Friday for the type of touring you are proposing. The key thing you want to consider in a folding bike for extended touring is that it must meet thesame requirements of a "full sized " bicycle in both performance, comfort and reliability. I have a NWT and an AirGlide and they are the best IMHO.

I would recommend a Birdy for the following reasons.
- I believe that they offer the best all round combination of comfort, speed, light weight, compact fold, durability and fun.
- There is an established high priced market for them in Australia and if you decide to leave it there you have a good chance of sellingf it at a profit (at least if you bought it in North America or Japan rather than in the UK).
David

Abneycat, be careful with the ground clearance on your bags. I used some small panniers on my Dahon, and within a week had scraped a couple of small holes in the bottom. Check with Gaerlan for racks that are higher off the ground than the stock rack.

Also, I highly recommend you have the wheels checked / trued / tuned up. IIRC Dahon's wheels are all machined, not hand-built.


I beleive that there are Bike Friday models that use their hard cases as trailers that you can pull your gear in while touring....
Yes, that's exactly what I mean by the term "esoteric solution." :D

What do you guys think of the Dahon tournado? I was doing some reading about it on the Dahon site, it also seemed like a viable option. Anyone used it in the field?

S&S Coupler and Ritchey Breakway bikes are fine machines. Obviously they have an advantage that they have full size wheels such that you avoid the gearing and load carrying issues that small wheel bikes experience.

IMO, the advantage of a folding bike -- I have a Bike Friday NWT -- is that it packs/unpacks considerably faster than the S&S coupler and Breakaway bikes. Moreover, the "quickfold" is useful during trips with a rental car or cab. My wife and I can fit both of our bikes in the trunk of our Echo with minimal effort. Bike Fridays work well for touring since (1) they are custom fit, (2) have a slew of accessories for touring including special racks for the small wheels, and (3) they provide excellent customer support for their bikes that includes a 24-hour emergency line. Note that the small wheel is stronger than the full size wheel. This would be a considerable advantage for loaded touring.

I've done loaded touring on my Bike Friday NWT and Tandem Twos'day and credit card touring on my Swift Folder and Tikit (no, I didn't own all of these folders at the same time). I expect that I'll do a loaded tour on the Tikit one day.

I prefer loaded touring with a fullsize bicycle, but the folders have big advantages when travelling. If I were planning on touring for 80-90% of a trip then I'd bring my full size bicycle and deal with the hassles of travelling with it. If I were planning on bicycle touring for a few days in a few week long trip then I'd bring the folder.

I also owned a S&S bike, but didn't do any touring with it. The folders pack much more quickly.

Ok, so my LBS has a couple of bike styles for me to test out--dahons--I haven't been able to get over to the local Bike Friday dealer yet. The Mu p8 was mentioned as a good ride, anyone have any experience with it that they'd like to share?--I can't afford to spend too much on my bike, I checked out the Ritchy breakaway today, it's 2700$ at the best price I can get it. I'm more in the 300-600$ braket. The LBS has 3 dahons, doesn't say what they are, but they're 20inchers and 1 mtbike. The MU 24 also looked pretty cool since it's got a wide range of gears. Variety is just so limited where I am.

Ok, so my LBS has a couple of bike styles for me to test out--dahons--I haven't been able to get over to the local Bike Friday dealer yet. The Mu p8 was mentioned as a good ride, anyone have any experience with it that they'd like to share?--I can't afford to spend too much on my bike, I checked out the Ritchy breakaway today, it's 2700$ at the best price I can get it. I'm more in the 300-600$ braket. The LBS has 3 dahons, doesn't say what they are, but they're 20inchers and 1 mtbike. The MU 24 also looked pretty cool since it's got a wide range of gears. Variety is just so limited where I am.

I just bought the 2008 Mu P8 quite recently. All I can say is, the bike is fairly decent, but Dahon has some serious quality control issues! The hinge was too loose, the Zorin pump did not work at all (and still doesn't. the distributor is just getting a suspension seatpost for me instead), and the rack which I ordered was seriously misshapen.

Look the bike over before you buy it. But the Mu P8 has been a good ride so far, those issues aside.

Disregard anything I just said above. After coming home today from my second test run, the hinge has a huge amount of play in it. I haven't overloaded it, nor used it abusively. Between the outright defective post pump, the misshapen rack, the poorly adjusted hinge - and now the dead hinge, I simply cannot recommend this bike at all. Its going back to the shop tomorrow, and hopefully they'll be able to work something out. My experience with Dahon has as such been nothing but a disappointment.

The only upside is that so far, Ridley's cycle has been really good about the problems - I just hope they'll be good about this one too.

Ok, so my LBS has a couple of bike styles for me to test out--dahons--I haven't been able to get over to the local Bike Friday dealer yet. The Mu p8 was mentioned as a good ride, anyone have any experience with it that they'd like to share?--I can't afford to spend too much on my bike, I checked out the Ritchy breakaway today, it's 2700$ at the best price I can get it. I'm more in the 300-600$ braket. The LBS has 3 dahons, doesn't say what they are, but they're 20inchers and 1 mtbike. The MU 24 also looked pretty cool since it's got a wide range of gears. Variety is just so limited where I am.

My local Dahon dealer recommended going with something other than a Dahon for my needs (step through frame with at least 50lbs cargo capacity). He felt that Dahon's racks were likely to be problematic with that amount of load. Both racks are rated for about 25lbs, but the designs have few struts. Since there don't seem to be many after market racks that would work as a replacement, I decided a Dahon would not be the best choice as my primary bike.

I don't think you're likely to find a new bike that's good for touring loads in the $300-600 price range. Most full sized touring bikes start at about $900 new. You often pay a premium for folding capacity, so it's not surprising that a Bike Friday tourer runs over $1000.

I just bought the 2008 Mu P8 quite recently. All I can say is, the bike is fairly decent, but Dahon has some serious quality control issues! The hinge was too loose, the Zorin pump did not work at all (and still doesn't. the distributor is just getting a suspension seatpost for me instead), and the rack which I ordered was seriously misshapen.

Look the bike over before you buy it. But the Mu P8 has been a good ride so far, those issues aside.

Disregard anything I just said above. After coming home today from my second test run, the hinge has a huge amount of play in it. I haven't overloaded it, nor used it abusively. Between the outright defective post pump, the misshapen rack, the poorly adjusted hinge - and now the dead hinge, I simply cannot recommend this bike at all. Its going back to the shop tomorrow, and hopefully they'll be able to work something out. My experience with Dahon has as such been nothing but a disappointment.

The only upside is that so far, Ridley's cycle has been really good about the problems - I just hope they'll be good about this one too.

Isn't it a case of adjusting the hinge latch to fix the play? Alternatively, the hinge pin might have come out partly. It is supposed to be fixed with a grub screw. Personally I think Dahon's hinge designs are terrible, but once you understand how they are supposed to work, you can get - and keep - them going.

Isn't it a case of adjusting the hinge latch to fix the play? Alternatively, the hinge pin might have come out partly. It is supposed to be fixed with a grub screw. Personally I think Dahon's hinge designs are terrible, but once you understand how they are supposed to work, you can get - and keep - them going.

They adjusted it the first time. The first time, it had chewed through the paint on the side of the hinge that the V-clamp snaps down on, but now its chewing through the aluminum leaving nothing but a fine grey powder where the insides of the hinge used to be.

Its either a case of the hinge being damaged from the first time (and adjusted correctly but too late now) or a case of the hinge on the bike just being broken in general.

They adjusted it the first time. The first time, it had chewed through the paint on the side of the hinge that the V-clamp snaps down on, but now its chewing through the aluminum leaving nothing but a fine grey powder where the insides of the hinge used to be.

Its either a case of the hinge being damaged from the first time (and adjusted correctly but too late now) or a case of the hinge on the bike just being broken in general.

Hmmmm, either way ... it is a bit scary. Good thing you took it back.

Yes, as we said, Birdy or Bike Friday. ;-)

They adjusted it the first time. The first time, it had chewed through the paint on the side of the hinge that the V-clamp snaps down on, but now its chewing through the aluminum leaving nothing but a fine grey powder where the insides of the hinge used to be.

Its either a case of the hinge being damaged from the first time (and adjusted correctly but too late now) or a case of the hinge on the bike just being broken in general.

I think one of the problems with Dahon in general, they come up with a snazzy design, give bikes with said snazzy design to staff to beta-test (said staff are knowledgable and can keep things optimally adjusted) and think they have a fool-proof design. (All this is pure speculation.)

The problem then comes when shipping bikes with said beta-tested snazzy designs around the world to LBSs who don't have the next clue how these things are supposed to be optimally adjusted, or even if they are, they come out of adjustment pretty easily, and riders don't have a good grasp either, so said snazzy designs being not thoroughly foolproof, start falling apart very rapidly.

That's why the Downtube hinge designs are literally foolproof: They cannot be locked before the safety backup is engaged, and the design is very simple, therefore easy to understand and not easy to fall apart. (They do suffer sometimes from manufacturing tolerances which is annoying but not fatal.)

Well, got frustrated with the Dahon and don't have much faith in it anymore. Expensive, as there was a restocking fee and i'm stuck with these little bike racks - but at least its a lesson learned.

May give a Speed D7 a try down the road just as a convenience bike for the city, but I haven't got the budget to be looking at a Bike Friday in school otherwise the Llama would probably be a dream!

Well, got frustrated with the Dahon and don't have much faith in it anymore. Expensive, as there was a restocking fee and i'm stuck with these little bike racks - but at least its a lesson learned.

May give a Speed D7 a try down the road just as a convenience bike for the city, but I haven't got the budget to be looking at a Bike Friday in school otherwise the Llama would probably be a dream!

Look at the used bike market. Or perhaps you should consider a Swift folder. You apparently only need a single chainring up front.

With some good karma, maybe the racks will fit the new bike. :)

Just want to add. My new Mu p8 so far has been great. The hinge is tight and works great (I think it's an excellent new design). Everything is easy to adjust and solid. I ride it hard and it is fast.

For the most part a folding bike would not be ideal for loaded touring. But for lightweight multi mode touring they are excellent. Spent 21 days touring Ireland in 1999 on some pretty primitive dahons, it was a trip of a lifetime. Being able to do it again on some newer bikes, would be even better.

I just finished my first folder tour with my downtube 2007 NS. 2 weeks in South Carolina. Nice trip but real heavy traffic. Bike did great but I did cover a fair bit less mileage per day. I couldn't resist the guitar picture being a guitarist myself.

cmcanulty:
Off topic for just a second: the dog is a riot! He almost looks as if he came with the bike. Took looking at the pics for a bit to even notice.

Ok, back on: What kind of mileage did you do per day? Why was it less than it might otherwise have been?

I was bicycling about 6 hours a day and when I added up my average mileage was shocked it was below 30, on full size bike it would have been at least 50. But I am older and stop frequently for pictures, sightseeing, dog etc. Was still fun though. Just for a comparison I juimped on my full size bike as soon as I got home and was shocked that it didn't feel any different than the downtube but again I was up to my normal speed. The weird thing is the folder didn't feel slower just was, but who cares. It carried all the gear and worked great.