Classic & Vintage - Classic Single Speed Cranks

Hi,

I am building a fixed gear porteur style bike up currently. I am interested in using a vintage crankset for the aesthetics. Would I run into any issues running older cranks on a modern frame? It will be a 68mm English BB shell.

Also, I'd love some pointers on where to look for NOS stuff.

thanks.
-min

Well most classic era single speed bike were coasters and then there are 3 speeds. These would all use steel cottered cranks. You know raleigh heron, CCM, BSA, Rudge Hand etc... When VLWs had single rings that was in the era of steel cottered cranks as well, magistroni, stronglight etc... if you want alloy then you are looking at track cranks. The really great looking classic single speed cranks are usually 3 speed, 5 speed and coater brake city and touring bikes, but those are a bit heavy. That said something like a TA pro-5-Vis would be a nice option too and you can polish the aluminum to your hearts content but they don't have quite as much pizzaz as a cottered steel crank with a nice chromed chainring IMHO.

Check veloorange for NOS stuff and contemporary/retro offeringe. They just got a bunch of beautiful cottered three pin cranks that would look great, and they also stock TA cranks (that can be sued as single speed) though they are very expensive.

http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/

Check VeloOrange they have vintage, NOS, and new but retro stuff for that kind of build. They just got some cool 2-pin cottered cranks. They also stock TA cranks ($$$!) which are beautiful.

http://velo-orange.blogspot.com/

Those are nice and I have a set of very similar stronglights with the same BCD. Unfortunately mine also are french thread.

And what sucks about these is that you have to use a 48 tooth ring, no other option. That's a pretty tall order for an upright bike, I mean I know Raleigh used 46 on most 3 speeds it's pretty big. My girlfriend's cruise is 40/18 and I think that it a good SS gear for an upright bike or else you are bobbing like a turkey when ever you hit an incline. However! You can find smaller rings for these, in particular there were some cheep SR cranksets and stuff from the 70s which used this bolt pattern for the inner ring which would alloy it to be used for SS.

They are 170mm with 48/40 rings. The British thread BB is included and they take French thread pedals, though they can be tapped to British. If you want a set to restore an old bike or just to be different, they cost $55.

http://bp0.blogger.com/_C1XrRVl3W8k/SA4U1NicKfI/AAAAAAAAEbc/eEyvIhG0J1Q/s320/Universal+crank.jpg



Two issues -

(1) pedals french threaded. What does that mean?
(2) Assuming, I want the 48T and remove the 40t ring, that would give me a funky chainline. And it uses (what I assume is) a proprietary BB.

I like that crank, BTW.

It's easier and usually cheaper to increase the size of the cog than to decrease the size of the chainring. Big gears are more efficient, too. My three speed has a 52 ring and a 22 cog.

http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/16671/2736003250068014369S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2736003250068014369MsDalJ)

Wow, is that TA intended to be a single ring crankset? Where would I get something like that.

Sidenote, I plan to run about 70" or 49x18T.

Wow, is that TA intended to be a single ring crankset? Where would I get something like that.

Sidenote, I plan to run about 70" or 49x18T.


TA Pro Vis 5 cranks can all be used as single, double, or triple but get ready for sticker shock (about $300 with one ring):
http://www.velo-orange.com/pro5viscr.html

TA Tevano sets for sale on Veloorange can also be triple:
http://www.velo-orange.com/tatecrar.html

I don't know if they were meant for single but if the chain line works who cares, they are beautiful!!

Also crazy $, but some day I'll save up and get a set.

That crank was on a POS Raleigh mixte that I bought. I spent about a week sanding out the scratches and gouges and then polishing it on a wheel. I gave it new caps and decals. It was a double, but they're easily converted to a single. It's my favorite crank. I'll put one on the Peugeot I'm building for my daughter if the cottered Simplex it has on it now doesn't work out. They're on eBay all the time. I'm watching one now. I wouldn't pay more than $35 for a used one. Rings are still available.

http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/42963/2878814320068014369S500x500Q85.jpg (http://sports.webshots.com/photo/2878814320068014369WZYNih)

Dirt drop, what width BB are you using on the 3-speed and what is your chainline?

I'm using a 115mm Miche Primato cartridge BB. It mounts with adapter rings like a Phil Wood BB, so the chailine is adjustable within a few millimeters. Mine is just about centered. I don't know what the chainline is because I've never measured it. I use a straightedge across the chainring to the side of the cog. My cog is mounted with the convex side out.

I only paid $20 for the BB and I like it. I just wish I could get them in French thread.

http://inlinethumb50.webshots.com/6001/2692098340068014369S500x500Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2692098340068014369LGCYtu)

Sidenote, I plan to run about 70" or 49x18T.


When you're working out your gearing, you might also want to consider Sheldon's advice (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chain-life.html)on even-toothed chainrings and sprockets.

Here's a lousy shot of a Stronglight 49D w/ a 45-tooth ring (and a Nexus-8 rear hub) on my Raleigh Int'l:

http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/International8_5.jpg

And a Stronglight mod 93 w/ a 42-tooth ring mounted on the inside:

http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/StEtiennePorteur5.jpg

Neal

When you're working out your gearing, you might also want to consider Sheldon's advice (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/chain-life.html)on even-toothed chainrings and sprockets.

Thanks... that's something I had not considered before. :)

Here's a lousy shot of a Stronglight 49D w/ a 45-tooth ring (and a Nexus-8 rear hub) on my Raleigh Int'l:

h ttp://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/International8_5.jpg

And a Stronglight mod 93 w/ a 42-tooth ring mounted on the inside:

h ttp://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/StEtiennePorteur5.jpg

Neal

Wow, I have a better appreciation for my current-gen stronglights after seeing yours.

Here's a my Stronglight Pulsions.

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e211/gbae007/IMG_0184.jpg

Here's a lousy shot of a Stronglight 49D w/ a 45-tooth ring (and a Nexus-8 rear hub) on my Raleigh Int'l:

http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/International8_5.jpg

And a Stronglight mod 93 w/ a 42-tooth ring mounted on the inside:

http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/StEtiennePorteur5.jpg

Neal

That is one crazy cool chainguard!

That is one crazy cool chainguard!

That Belgian seller has a couple of other listed on eBay right now. He always has reasonable shipping charges, too:

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZkia4000QQssPageNameZADMEQ3aBQ3aFSELQ3aUSQ3a1124

Neal

And a Stronglight mod 93 w/ a 42-tooth ring mounted on the inside:

http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/StEtiennePorteur5.jpg

Neal

That dustcap looks like it's crossthreaded. :eek:

That dustcap looks like it's crossthreaded. :eek:

An optical illusion, I hope.

Neal

Sheldon Brown says to use a road double to make a single ring crankset. Remove the small ring, move the big to the inside. Use short bolts to hold the ring. Cheaper than using a track crankset; the hipsters go bonkers for any track crankset that shows up on eBay.

Harriscyclery.net has these Suntour Cyclones on closeout. Easy enough to convert to single ring.
http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/images/cyclone-7000-160mm.jpg

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/cranks/130-single.html

They are 160mm crankarm length which really is a good thing for fixed gear. $80

Stronglight Pulsions

Yech. Looks like someone tried to reinvent Campagnolo Victory.

-Kurt

Sheldon Brown says to use a road double to make a single ring crankset. Remove the small ring, move the big to the inside. Use short bolts to hold the ring.

It works, but it's very ugly IMHO. Sorry Neal. It's not necessary if you use the right BB length and are willing to make some modifications.

I don't think that anybody suggested using a track crank. I won't use one because it would require using a 1/8" chain, which makes no sense to me since they're heavier and no stronger.

It works, but it's very ugly IMHO. Sorry Neal. It's not necessary if you use the right BB length and are willing to make some modifications.

I don't think that anybody suggested using a track crank. I won't use one because it would require using a 1/8" chain, which makes no sense to me since they're heavier and no stronger.

My main need on that bike was to have enough clearance for the chainguard. It's just too tight with the ring on the outside.

Neal

It works, but it's very ugly IMHO. Sorry Neal. It's not necessary if you use the right BB length and are willing to make some modifications.

Indeed - I can't see the logic in placing the larger of the two rings on the inside of the crank either. Clearing the chainstay with such a setup would require such a large offset of the BB that the crankset would look ridiculous.

If one must use the large ring, it should be put on the outside, such as the TA crank on Dirtdrop's Carlton.

Incidentally, on this note, I never could figure out the fascination with the mounting of a single ring - regardless of size - on the inside. Besides the fact that it looks ugly, one could just as well mount the ring on the outside with a short enough BB to compensate for the chainline.

Neither should there be any negative results in terms of clearance - after all, the crankset itself isn't as much the limiting factor against the chainstay as much as the chainring, which would be mounted in roughly the same place as before.

All this, is, of course, excluding cranksets that, by design, sit quite close to the BB edge, and cannot be brought in any further whether one wishes to do so or not. (Not to mention less common chainguard issues such as Neal's machine).

Take care,

-Kurt

My main need on that bike was to have enough clearance for the chainguard. It's just too tight with the ring on the outside.

I assume then, that the Stronglight cannot be mounted on a shorter BB without there being clearance problems against the cup edges themselves, correct?

-Kurt

It works, but it's very ugly IMHO.
Bike messengers are mainly very practical people, and this doesn't bother most of them at all.

Chainline is important, though, with a singlespeed/fixed, and some double cranks have a large enough land on the inside of crank arms that if you get the chainline right with a ring on the outside, you could have interference with the chainstay, either unloaded, or under load. Some double cranks have a land on the small ring side that's not as thick as a chainring -- I'm thinking of some Suginos I have or have seen, but my Campagnolo crank has full-thickness lands. Of course, (de)filing the crank is always an option.

If you're just going singlespeed, then you could adjust the rear sprocket offset to match whatever your crank offers with the BB spindle and crankarms that you have: with a freehub and one of those spacer kits, you can put the sprocket wherever you like. Harder with a track hub, because you'd have to use freewheel spacers between sprocket and the seat on the hub, and you might run out of thread before you got it wide enough. Has anybody redished a rear wheel the "wrong way" to move the rear cog out to match an outer ring on a double crankset?

There are protrusions on the back of a double crank spider that will hit the chainstay before there is contact with the cups. They can be ground off or you can set it up so there is less than a millimeter of clearance. That's how mine is set up. The only modification I had to make was to shorten the chainring nuts and bolts. That's why I like the Miche BB. It allows you adjust the clearance. It also has an ISO taper, so I can use European cranks.

There are protrusions on the back of a double crank spider that will hit the chainstay before there is contact with the cups.

Depends on the BCD and the particular crankset being used, not to mention how much crimping there is on the chainstay of the bike in question. All depends on the particular combination at hand.

Case in point, this Raleigh Gran Sport fixie (Painted it black only as the original blue/white was too far gone to even attempt to save. I had intended to build it up as a 531 3-speed tourer and painted it for the occasion long before losing interest in the project and ultimately selling it):

http://www.jaysmarine.com/BDC_bikes_raleigh_gs_lg.jpg

I can't recall what BCD this SR crankset was, but the thick crimping on the frame allowed me to mount the large ring on the outside with no problems. It all depends on the parts one is working with. Sometimes it is possible, other times not.

-Kurt

This one was a double surgino and I used the inter ring,I also filed off the ridge on the spider for the inter ring---the arms are steel and the spider in alum.Some how bradded together--these were cheep 10speed 70s fodder.Not near as nice as TA cranks,but just shows what you can do
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l283/frameteam2003/lingofixedgear.jpg

On my Stronglights (the one that elicits the 'yech' response) I couldn't move it to the inside position because my 44T chainring hit the chainstay since it is not crimped. Idiosyncrasies of the frame and component selection has to be considered.

On my Stronglights (the one that elicits the 'yech' response) I couldn't move it to the inside position because my 44T chainring hit the chainstay since it is not crimped. Idiosyncrasies of the frame and component selection has to be considered.

Proves my point, although I find it interesting that the 44 wouldn't fit on the inside - did you change the BB length, or was there a 42t installed there originally?

-Kurt

Proves my point, although I find it interesting that the 44 wouldn't fit on the inside - did you change the BB length, or was there a 42t installed there originally?

-Kurt

The Pulsion comes with an integrated spindle/bb and was originally equipped with a 53/39t combo.