Da Vinci Tandems, anyone ride one?

[rumbutter]

My wife and myself have been thinking about getting a tandem and we saw a Da Vinci Tandem in a LBS the other day and was very impressed by the drive train. I see lots of tandems taking in part in centuries and double centuries (many thanks to the couple on the Solvang double on the gorgeous green and white Comotion tandem that I rode with for the last 60 miles...awesome pace guys) of all types but I have never seen a Da Vinci. I wonder why that is.
Anyone here ride one and what do you think of it ?

[masiman]

I am not giving short shrift to your question but I think you can find out more and faster from past posts than trying to rewrite it all :).

DaVinci vs. CoMotion (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=61183)
Custom Tandem (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=61183)
Calfee or DaVinci (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=389987)
DaVinci ICS (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=65551)

I hope these help.

[brewer45]

Our LBS mechanic described the DaVinci independent pedaling as if the stoker were simply waving her/his arms. We started on a Diamondback, upgraded to a Burley Duet, and are currently riding a Co-Mo Speedster. The lack of specific pedaling/cadence connection betw. captain and stoker would significantly diminish our enjoyment.

Cheers!

[rumbutter]

I am not giving short shrift to your question but I think you can find out more and faster from past posts than trying to rewrite it all :).

DaVinci vs. CoMotion (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=61183)
Custom Tandem (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=61183)
Calfee or DaVinci (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=389987)
DaVinci ICS (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=65551)

I hope these help.

That is a tremendous help. Thanks.

[TandemGeek]

I see lots of tandems taking in part in centuries and double centuries... I have never seen a Da Vinci. I wonder why that is.?

This is a good question... and not one that's easy to sum up in a short sound bite. However, these are what I'd characterize as the biggest barriers:

1. Consumers tend to follow the herd: Tandems are unconventional to begin with, which is a barrier to tandem riding in and of itself. The daVinci tandems with their Independent Coasting are easily the least conventional of the upright contemporary tandems so it takes a really self-confident consumer who's not worried about being a bit different to embrace the daVinci tandems.

2. But don't REAL road tandems have 700c wheels? Up and until just a year or so ago, daVinci produced all of their tandems using 26" wheels. It's been a part of their philosophy since the beginning and the rationale for going with 26" is actually quite sound, practical, and really doesn't impact performance vs. 700c wheels. However, as already noted, consumers tend to follow the herd and 'serious roadies' and the folks who emulate them have preferred 700c wheels. daVinci finally gave in to customer demand and began offering the 700c models just a short while ago, as noted.

3. It costs how much? Hey, low-volume hand-crafted and high-tech don't come cheap and for the longest time even the least expensive daVinci was priced close to the more well-known brand's premium-grade (e.g., Santana Arriva / Sovereign, Co-Motion Speedster / Roadster, C'Dale RT3000, etc...) tandems. In other words, there really wasn't an entry-level daVinci... you had to jump in at the mid-range. Again, consumers are generally risk-adverse and to get into a daVinci you're being asked to take a leap of faith with the drive-train, to embrace 26" wheels, and the cost of doing so isn't insignificant. We strongly considered a daVinci Symbiosis as a replacement for our last Ventana off-road tandem; however, it was just too cost prohibitive: cost matters. However, I would note that daVinci has been working very hard to introduce a lower-cost, entry-level tandem and that lower price-point MAY spark a bigger share of the market: time will tell.

Anyway, I believe those three things are probably biggest barrier to greater market penetration. However, that said, they have a very loyal following and purportedly while they can convert any of their ICS bikes into a 'fixed drive' system that works just like a conventional tandem, only one customer has ever had them do that.

As a final note, and because I'm feeling frisky, let also note that there are A LOT of different tandem brands that you've probably never seen.... and here's a somewhat dated and partial list from our Web site (http://www.thetandemlink.com/tandems.html#anchor1145574):


3G Bicycles - Cruiser Tandems & Bicycle Choppers
Angle Tech - Recumbents & Harmony 1/2 Bent & 1/2 Upright
AriZona - (Carbon tandems but no Longer building)
Barcroft Cycles - Compact Recumbent
Bike Friday (aka, Green Gear Cycling / Tandem Tuesday)
Bilenky Cycle Works - Production Models in all price ranges.
Bike-E - Recumbent Bikes & Tandems (Closed doors in 9/02)
Bob Brown Cycles - Custom builder in Minnesota, USA
Bob Jackson Cycles - Custom builder in UK
Bohemian Cycles - Custom builder in Arizona, USA
Bothwork - Custom builder in Iowa (Not building at the moment)
Boulder Bicycles - Production tandems in all price ranges.
Brew - Custom builder in West Jefferson, North Carolina
Bruni - Custom builder Tom Bruni was lost to us on July 9, 2005
Burley - Former Production Builder (Ceased bike production 9/06)
Bushnell - (Brand now owned by R&E Cycles)
Calfee Designs - Composite Custom Tandems
Cannondale - Production Models in all price ranges.
Co-Motion Cycles - Production Models in all price ranges.
Composite Arts and Science (CAS)
Concept Technology - Custom builder in California, USA
Davidson Handbuilt - Custom builder in Pacific, WA
da Vinci Designs - Custom tandems from Denver, Colorado
Dawes - (UK) Production Models in all price ranges.
Diamond Back - Wildwood Tandem 24spd Comfort/Cruiser bike
Ellsworth Witness - MTB Tandem Frame
Erickson Cycles - Custom & Signature Tandems
Fandango Tandems - Affordable Off-Road Tandems by MTBTandems.com
Follis - (France) Tel. : 04.78.60.75.34
Franklin - Custom Builder near Columbus, Ohio
Gitane (France)
Griffen - Aero-frame fabricated from 6092 aluminum Metal Matrix
Hase-Spezialraeder - Tandems, Recumbents, recumbent trikes,
Holland Cycles - Custom builder in California, USA
Huber Bikes - Custom builder in Kailua-Kona, Hawaii
Hujsak Bicycles - Custom Builder in Texas, USA
Ibis Cycles (The "Old" Ibis Cycles made tandems)
Inspired Cycle Engineering - Trice Tricycle Tandem
Kelly - Custom builder in California, USA
KHS - Production Models in all price ranges.
Koga-Miyata - TwinTraveller Trekking Bike from the Netherlands
Landshark - Custom builder in Medford, Oregon
Lippy (OR (503) 389-2503 - (No Longer Building)
Litespeed Talani - Tandem's Are Now Custom Orders / Not in Catalog
Longbike - Standard & Custom tandems from Colorado
Longstaff (UK)
Look (France - Mtn Tandems)
Love Bike
LUST - Custom carbon racing bikes and tandems.
Lynsky - Founders of Litespeed / High-End Titanium. Cycology is POC
Mercian (UK)
Meridian Tandems (No longer a going concern)
Mikkleson Frames
Mrazek (Tandem MTB & Singles - Czech Republic)
Nicolai - Insane Off-Road FreeRide Tandem from Germany
Orbit Cycles (UK)
Organic Engines - Recumbent Bikes & Tandems
Paketa Cycles - Magnesium bikes & tandems, Boulder, CO
Pederson Bikes - Hammock-saddle equipped tandems
Phat Cycles, - So. Cal. Cruiser / Comfort Tandem
Poulsen Cycles - Custom builder in California, USA
Raleigh - Comfort & affordable performance tandems (No longer marketing tandems)
Rans Recumbent - Bikes & Tandems
Ravello Tandems - So Cal.
Rex Cycles - Custom builder in California, USA
Rodriquez - Custom builder in Seattle, WA
Ryan Recumbents (Now owned by Longbike)
Rosenthal Tandems - Custom builder in Minnesota
Rue Sports - Custom carbon racing tandems.
Sano Cycle Works - Custom builder in Alabama
Santana Inc - Production Models in all price ranges.
Schauff - Germany, featuring the Soil Off-Road & Rolhoff equipped bikes.
Seven Cycles - Custom Steel & Ti Tandems
Serotta - Custom Ti Tandem (But you have to beg for it)
Sun Cycles - Retro-look Tandem Cruisers
SyCip Designs - Custom builder in California
Talisman Metal Craft - Custom builder in Washington, USA
Tandem Technology (Germany - No Longer A Going Concern)
T.E.T. Cycles - Custom builder in Iowa, USA
Ted Wojcik - Custom Bicycles Custom builder in New Hampshire, USA
Thorn Tandems - St John's Street Cycles, Summerset, England
Ti Cycles - Custom titanium road & off-raod tandems
Trek USA - Production Models in two price ranges.
Univega - A comfort tandem (same as Raleigh model)
Varna - Hybrid handcycle tandem
VentanaMountainBikes USA - Full-Suspension Off-Road Tandems
Vision Recumbent- Bikes & Tandems (Closed doors in 2/04)
Willit's Brand 29" Road Tandem (Status Unknown / Web site gone)
VooDoo Cycles - Off-road 26" and 29" tandems

[TandemGeek]

Our LBS mechanic described the DaVinci independent pedaling as if the stoker were simply waving her/his arms.

Here's another barrier to the daVinci concept; although, it's really captured by #1 and most likely lack of experience with the product. The daVinci ICS design isn't for everyone, but neither is riding in-phase, never mind riding tandems at all.

[zonatandem]

A few more brands/makes you may/may not have on your website, Mark:

Assenmacher*
Atala
Benotto
Berry*
Borthwick*
Colin Laing/Colian*
Counter Point*
Fastab*
Fuji*
Flandria
Gilmour*
Gottfried*
GT*
Hanoovian
Kuwahara*
Herse
Jack Taylor+
LeJeune+
Montague*
Motobecane*
Micargi*
Nishiki
Nashbar+
Osell*
Pogliaghi+
Peugeot*
Roberts+
Roland*
Specialized*
Schwinn*
Southern Cross

* = have ridden
+ = have seen

Pedal on TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

[Trevdaremom]

We love our DaVinci...We rode a standard tandem last year and the independent crank this year and we love this one much more. We still have to pedal the same or the bike wobbles a bit but the stoker can stop pedaling during important maneuvers and just hang on. I highly recommend one. Trevdaremom

[zonatandem]

Have seen several daVinci's on the El Tour de Tucson (100+ miles) over the past 13 years . . .
also scads of other brands from Co-Motion, Calfee, Zona, KHS, Raleigh, Burley, 'tana, C'dale, Rans, Laing, Gilmour, Gitane, Greengear, Meridian etc.
daVinci tends to fill a niche market within a niche market.

[s2cycle]

We love our da Vinci for many reasons. The independent coasting allows either of us to take a butt break at any time during a long ride without having to coast. Crossing tracks and approaching stops is simplified - the stoker's knees never get jarred to a halt. But what I really love is having that HUGE range of gears. We've got a 60-11 for flying downhills and a 24-28 for climbing walls.

In phase, out of phase, who cares? It doesn't matter unless you are 180 degrees off and pounding hard up a hill. Mostly you automatically get in phase. Nearly every picture of us riding shows us in phase.

We rode a standard tandem for a couple of years before switching. We'll never go back.

[kendux]

I bought a DaVinci 4 years ago but my wife never felt comfortable riding it, therefore it has less than30 miles on it. It is in great shape, green , original cost $3850, I would sell it for $2850. If interested respond to Ken

[barry.cohen]

We've ridden in-phase and out of phase. Both work, but getting used to one or the other is not all that easy. I can't imagine changing in the middle of a ride without an unpleasant adjustment period.

[Xanti Andia]

What is really neat about the DaVinci drive train is that it resolves two other problems in a tandem, ground clearance and broad range o gears, as well as idependent coasting, never ridden it though.

[JC da Vinci]

My wife & I have a new da Vinci and love it. The tandem is fabulous and represents first class attention to detail. The independent coasting is a must have on any tandem. We ride our tandem almost daily. The new lat-less frame is very responsive and yet very stable. We have talked to many other riders who have tried out tandeming but have decided jointly that tandems are just not for them. I think they would change their minds if the rode our da Vinci. The independent coasting allows easy starts, promotes clipping in (which we just started on this tandem) and allows you to pause and adjust any time you want.

We bought ours after test riding a used one for a week. The couple that had the test bicycle have just returned from Italy and love the bicycle tour they went on with their da Vinci. They too ride theirs all the time.

The gear range is great and the two to one left side reduction allows smaller front derailer cogs (nice for ground clearance).

I think you should test ride one and you'll be hooked.

J&C

[rumbutter]

We have had one for about a month now and both my wife and myself love it. Although not for everyone it was the Independant drive that sold it for us. Great fun and a very nice finish.

Some pictures here:

http://www.zensurweb.com/bikes/davinci/2008_da_vinci_joint_venture_700.htm

[zonatandem]

Enjoy the ride TWOgether!
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem