Living Car Free - Car-less society

Is our North American society ready for cycling as an alternate to using a car?
In Europe, bicycles are everywhere. Cars are used only for long distances or by those few who want to use them (or by tourists and taxis).
Bicycles, motorcycles, scooters, and cars get along quite well on the streets of Paris.
But why is this not true on the streets of North American cities?
Various levels of government laud the idea of making our society greener by reducing the use of cars.
They suggest using bicycles or walking or using public transportation.
That sounds great, but are bicycles a practical alternative in your city?
If you ride your cycle to work, or to college, or shopping, you need to find a safe place to park it or it will be stolen.
If you lock your bike into the rack that secures the front wheel, you may come back to find that some or all of your cycle is missing.
I don't think we are going to stop thieves even if we use the biggest and best bike locks.
At the very least, they will steal your computer.
They will even steal that $10 bike that you picked up at the thrift store.
Currently, the only solution is to ride with a partner who will guard the cycle while you do your business.
What do you do if your partner is not available or wants to shop with you? You drive your 15 mpg car at $5 a gallon or you make many trips for groceries using public transportation (i.e., a bus with 3 or 4 passengers but uses more fuel than your car ever did).
My suggestion: throughout the city we need metal bicycle lockers with a hook to hang the front wheel and those zero-clearance locks that are next to impossible to cut with bolt cutters.
Make the lockers coin operated to recover the cost.
Will this happen in our life-time? I doubt it.
What is your suggestion to make cycling viable in your city?

I would LOVE to see any bicycle infrastructure...even the wheel bender racks! There is a mall very near the hotel I am staying in, NO BIKE RACKS or even light poles you could lock up to.:( If the friggin' politicians want to do something useful (instead of bangin' their chops about "lowering" gas prices) they need to mandate bicycle lockers at all public transit terminals (planes, trains and bus) Good bicycle racks at any retail area and any other infrastructure that they can produce ASAP. I have been using Amtrak to travel back and forth from my home to my jobsite vs driving a truck (430 mile round trip) Amtrak on both ends has no secure parking for cars or bikes. I am going to get a folder (Brommie) for at least some of my traveling trips.

Aaron:)

http://z.about.com/d/cruises/1/0/M/R/3/arc_de_triomphe02.jpg
http://photos.igougo.com/images/p166387-London-Traffic.jpg
http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/86/61/22856186.jpg

These freeways in European cities are all full of taxis. They're just unmarked taxis. And tourists.

And cars get stolen all the time, too. Doesn't stop people from driving them.

I think all this infrastructure would happen if a) there were more cyclists using their bicycle for transportation and b) if these same cyclists were somewhat vocal about their needs and rights. My thought is how to get more people out on bikes.

For this I think you need to develop some equanimity. It will happen when it happens. Till then, lock up you bike to whatever is solid, don't ride you best bike to the grocery store... and then have fun biking. Perhaps if people get to see the fun factor, they might join you. At least... some of them will.

I agree whole heartedly with Gerv. There needs to be more demand for such things. Here in Ohio we are just making head way getting extra wide shoulders and bike paths.

Maybe we should develop a gps chip to be built into the frame of the bicycles and when it's stolen, the police can nail the SOBS. As of right now, there is no crack down on bicycle theft, basically it comes down to lack of resources and the inability to track something like that. Of course, if we all started insuring our bikes (I'm not sure there is such a thing) the insurance companies would push for something to be done.

I agree whole heartedly with Gerv. There needs to be more demand for such things. Here in Ohio we are just making head way getting extra wide shoulders and bike paths.

Maybe we should develop a gps chip to be built into the frame of the bicycles and when it's stolen, the police can nail the SOBS. As of right now, there is no crack down on bicycle theft, basically it comes down to lack of resources and the inability to track something like that. Of course, if we all started insuring our bikes (I'm not sure there is such a thing) the insurance companies would push for something to be done.

Until a couple of things happen there is not going to be much overall improvement in the infrastructure. One: it isn't politically advantageous to support wide spread cycling transportation based specific infrastructure. Two: we have too many groups claiming to support/speak for cyclists, you have the VC crowd, the CM crowd, the separate facilities crowd, the bike lane crowd, the MUP crowd....etc. Personally I like what they did in Denmark, separate but equal facilities. Then we have the issue of complete lack of training for cyclists and minimal/poor training for drivers, as well as the lack of personal responsibility of just about everybody.

Aaron:)

What couple of things do you feel need to happen?

Is our North American society ready for cycling as an alternate to using a car?

What is your suggestion to make cycling viable in your city?

Make it stop raining. :)

bragi - you live in the wrong part of the country to ask for it to stop raining. That's like me asking for a clear day. I think we get 3 clear days a year.

What couple of things do you feel need to happen?

We need ONE group to work on infrastructure design parameters, we need ONE group to lobby for the necessary improvements. Something along the lines of the ADA that provides for handicap access.Or the whatever the national design standard is for various class of roadways. Currently the laws are so fractured from state to state, as well as the design standards for bike lanes, parking, etc. Provide the necessary funding.

We also need to get cycling education BACK into the elementary schools, we need to greatly improve driver education to something more than the minmal > 40 hours that it currently is required in most states. In NC it is 30 hours of classroom and 6 hours of practical. Graduated licensing is a step in the right direction, but needs to be more heavily enforced. And speaking of enforcement, ENFORCE TRAFFIC LAWS! on everybody including cyclists. If we started TODAY it would probably take at least a generation to get where we need to be. FWIW Denmark has been at it since the '50s.

Aaron:)

Make it stop raining. :)

Go to La Quinta, CA. I remember one 15 month period without a drop of rain. And the roads were flat, had wide curbs and the streets were pretty fresh so very few potholes. Of course there are 120 degree temps in summer and plenty of goathead thorns.

I remember being stuck in traffic crawling along at about 5-10 mph on the ring road when i was traveling from paris to a suburb about 40 Km away. You are a bit disillusioned when you say that people only use cars in europe for long trips. Have you actually experienced traffic in europe? When i was in budapest for a year i noticed that the traffic on the roads was comparable with the good old USofA, with most cars carrying only one person. When you consider the center of the city, often with very narrow street, of course you do not have the same traffic. Horrible traffic exists, it is just pushed back and hidden from the center-city (which is not a bad thing IMO).

I remember being stuck in traffic crawling along at about 5-10 mph on the ring road when i was traveling from paris to a suburb about 40 Km away. You are a bit disillusioned when you say that people only use cars in europe for long trips. Have you actually experienced traffic in europe? When i was in budapest for a year i noticed that the traffic on the roads was comparable with the good old USofA, with most cars carrying only one person. When you consider the center of the city, often with very narrow street, of course you do not have the same traffic. Horrible traffic exists, it is just pushed back and hidden from the center-city (which is not a bad thing IMO).

hahaaa

I would love to ride my bicycle through that traffic jam and just laugh while I do it !!1

The thinig that people do not realize here is that bicycle infrastructure is not only some striping on the road to create bike lanes. We need to think about bicycle specific signage and signaling. That will create more accountability for cyclists to follow the rules and not force cyclists to follow rules that are in place to control motor vehicle traffic. Why do cyclists not follow rules of the road? Because those rules are for motor vehicle and cyclists don’t like having to follow rules that should not apply to them. Make the bicycle signage and signaling and I would follow the rules more closely.

In Europe they enforce the rules of the road because it makes sense when you have rules that are applicable to bicycles. Here we stripe some bike lanes and say “well, there’s you bike lane, but you’re a vehicle so follow the rules for motor vehicle traffic”, and that is stupid in my opinion.

The thing that people do not realize here is that bicycle infrastructure is not only some striping on the road to create bike lanes.

Count yourself lucky that your streets are even wide enough to take that small step. Around here most of the lanes were designed for closely packed Model-Ts, not SUVs and bicycles trying to share a lane. On second thought, maybe we do have bike lanes... but they are 3" wide. ;)

The thinig that people do not realize here is that bicycle infrastructure is not only some striping on the road to create bike lanes. We need to think about bicycle specific signage and signaling. That will create more accountability for cyclists to follow the rules and not force cyclists to follow rules that are in place to control motor vehicle traffic. Why do cyclists not follow rules of the road? Because those rules are for motor vehicle and cyclists don’t like having to follow rules that should not apply to them. Make the bicycle signage and signaling and I would follow the rules more closely.

In Europe they enforce the rules of the road because it makes sense when you have rules that are applicable to bicycles. Here we stripe some bike lanes and say “well, there’s you bike lane, but you’re a vehicle so follow the rules for motor vehicle traffic”, and that is stupid in my opinion.

I'm kind of confused with what you're looking for. What kind of signage do you want? As far as signaling I always signal and 95% of the time I come to a complete stop at stop signs. I tend to be more safety conscience on my bike than I am in my car.
I agree with the previous posts when someone said more education. What gets me is 80% of traffic will move far to the left of me when I am riding; however, motorcycles, those that advocate "share the road" tend to fly right past me. That is just a pet peeve of mine.

I'm kind of confused with what you're looking for. What kind of signage do you want? As far as signaling I always signal and 95% of the time I come to a complete stop at stop signs. I tend to be more safety conscience on my bike than I am in my car.
I agree with the previous posts when someone said more education. What gets me is 80% of traffic will move far to the left of me when I am riding; however, motorcycles, those that advocate "share the road" tend to fly right past me. That is just a pet peeve of mine.


I mean traffic signals and signage that are there for the control of bicycle traffic, such as stop lights only for bikes that turns green 5-10 sec before the motor vehicle traffic stop lights, allowing some separation of traffic flow. Also, i believe that stop signs should have a sign below that is basically a bike within a yield sign letting bikes know that they can treat the stop as a yield sign and letting cars know that they should yield to bikes.

example
http://www.idea-sandbox.com/blog/blog_images/bike_traffic_light.jpg

http://www.derekhardwick.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/DSCN0350.JPG

http://www.raisethehammer.org/images/stop_sign_with_bicycle_yield.jpg

example
http://www.idea-sandbox.com/blog/blog_images/bike_traffic_light.jpg

I've never seen anything like that, what about a traffic light, doesn't that necessarily do that same thing. Forgive me I didn't see your post before the pic.

The timing is different to allow bikes a "head start" to separate traffic flow better.

I mean traffic signals and signage that are there for the control of bicycle traffic, such as stop lights only for bikes that turns green 5-10 sec before the motor vehicle traffic stop lights, allowing some separation of traffic flow. Also, i believe that stop signs should have a sign below that is basically a bike within a yield sign letting bikes know that they can treat the stop as a yield sign and letting cars know that they should yield to bikes.

I really like that idea.

The timing is different to allow bikes a "head start" to separate traffic flow better.

What if one prefers to be behind the faster vehicles to avoid being passed again?

Al

I've never seen anything like that, what about a traffic light, doesn't that necessarily do that same thing. Forgive me I didn't see your post before the pic.

Those are in Europe, primarily Denmark and the Netherlands. We would do well to follow their example, IMHO. They have done a lot right. In Copenhagen around 1/3 of the population commutes by bicycle year round, with the number swelling to over half in the nicer months. We are also talking about a city of around 1.7 million! It can be done. I like the fact they are actually closing down traffic lanes to cars to allow for additional bikes. There is one stretch in the city that was getting about 11,000-15,000 cars a day, vs 25,000+ bicycles past a given point, the cars lost...the road is now bicycles only and they expect the count to soon exceed 35,000 a day.

I realize that not all American cities are as compact as Copenhagen or Amsterdam, but we HAVE to start somewhere.

Aaron:)

What if one prefers to be behind the faster vehicles to avoid being passed again?

Al

Ride faster?

Is our North American society ready for cycling as an alternate to using a car?

Nope.

I went to college in a small town out on the Great Plains. It was certainly possible to bike everywhere in town that was important, but biking to neighboring towns that were anywhere from 30 to 150 miles away would be a pretty bad idea.

Of course, there would be the issue of carrying my tuba, or a couple hundred pounds of sound equipment, etc., but that's unusual; most people don't have that kind of junk that needs regular hauling.

People keep bringing up Europe as a good example, but they keep forgetting how different it really is. Over there, everything is close -- if you drive for three hours, you're in another country. If it's too far to bike in an hour, you can find a train that'll take you there.

That's just not true in most of the U.S.

I'm not even going to get into anti-theft protection, bike lanes, and all that stuff because plenty of people don't even ride bikes often enough for that to matter.

My other half and I went to a concert last night in Denver. (Kraftwerk (http://www.kraftwerk.com/).) Of course it was a beautiful spring night but outside of the auditorium the entire front was filled with bikes. And many bikes locked together.

The fact that so many friends couples rode there and back made me happy - and seeing all the different cyclists ride off in different directions when the show was done.

I've never seen anything like that, what about a traffic light, doesn't that necessarily do that same thing. Forgive me I didn't see your post before the pic.

Here's some signals/signage from Munich (http://www.futuregringo.com/index.php/2007/05/18/biking-in-munich/)and Amsterdam (http://www.futuregringo.com/index.php/2008/04/03/biking-in-amsterdam/)too.

I'm not even going to get into anti-theft protection, bike lanes, and all that stuff because plenty of people don't even ride bikes often enough for that to matter.

But would they ride if those facilities were in place?

But would they ride if those facilities were in place?

The facilities wouldn't matter if they don't want to ride a hundred miles every day.

The facilities wouldn't matter if they don't want to ride a hundred miles every day.

Who rides 100 miles everyday? What are you talking about? Going from city to city or within the city?

Realize that I'm living in a part of the city that's very livable without a car or a motor scooter. I've also traveled to places where I got around just fine even without a bike. However, I have lived other places where owning a car was a necessity if you wanted to get anything done during the day.

My own mother has put on over a hundred miles in her car per day fairly often, and she wasn't even leaving the city limits. Try to tell her that she could do all those things by bike (including volunteer work, transporting friends on errands, and more).

Who rides 100 miles everyday? What are you talking about? Going from city to city or within the city?

Nobody.

People that aren't you.

Between and within.

Realize that I'm living in a part of the city that's very livable without a car or a motor scooter. I've also traveled to places where I got around just fine even without a bike. However, I have lived other places where owning a car was a necessity if you wanted to get anything done during the day.

My own mother has put on over a hundred miles in her car per day fairly often, and she wasn't even leaving the city limits. Try to tell her that she could do all those things by bike (including volunteer work, transporting friends on errands, and more).

Right there is the problem...society will need to make adjustments, some of it can be resolved by zoning, other things will require lifestyle changes. My wife used to think nothing of getting in the car and driving over an hour to a mall to go shopping, then another mall, then another. She could easily drive 200 miles in that day shopping. Was it really necessary? No. Americans like to "do" things. Nothing wrong with that, but it is going to get expensive. Instead of having mega movie palaces with 40 eleven screens, bring back the smaller neighborhood theaters with 2 or 3 screens. Bring back the smaller neighborhood grocery stores, etc. However they will come at a price. You will have to pay a bit more, but you will save at least some of it on transportation costs.

Aaron:)

There does seem to be a certain element of "if you build it, they will come" to bike infrastructure. Madison's downtown is set up so the easy and obvious parking is bike parking. One of the major streets is bike, pedestrian and mass transit only. There's fairly good use of bike lanes - not all streets can take them, and many downtown streets only need them for contra-flow bike traffic. The end result is a lot of downtown traffic (especially for big events) happens on a bike. Most traffic lights are timed pretty well.

There isn't *enough* bike parking, since the Saturday market can make downtown look like Amsterdam *g*. And some one way streets should have a contra-flow bike lane and don't, so navigation can get really odd. In a few spots, bike lanes are striped so they mark the door zone instead of being a real bike lane. But it's really nice to live in a place where I can stare at a full bike rack and whine that there's not enough parking.

It's clear from city planning meetings that the facilities didn't just spring up out of thin air. The city and voters *decided* that it was important to have a downtown full of businesses and residents, and they picked bike infrastructure as one of the ways to help that happen... Starting in the 1960s. So I'm the beneficiary of 40 years of careful thinking on the subject. I'm really grateful that some cyclists were activists here, before I was even born. Without them, I wouldn't have grocery stores, pharmacies, hardware stores, bike shops, and just about every other shop I might need within a short walk or bike ride.

I see some good ideas coming out of this post.
The concept of a unified continent wide advocacy group is necessary to begin lobbying for change.
There are lots of bicycle clubs and associations that promote rides, fellowship, safety, and advocacy.
But is there already a group dedicated to advocacy alone?
If not, how do we get a "Green Bike" advocacy started and promoted in Wisconsin, California, Iowa, Ohio, and Alberta ... and the rest of our countries?

People keep bringing up Europe as a good example, but they keep forgetting how different it really is. Over there, everything is close -- if you drive for three hours, you're in another country. If it's too far to bike in an hour, you can find a train that'll take you there.

Add another point into the "Europe is different" category that affects cycling as transportation: Licensing of drivers. As in, how difficult it is to get a driver's license in the first place.

In the US, driving is taught to be a privilege, but treated as a right by the individuals going for the driver's license. In Europe it's a privilege, to be earned with a fair amount of difficulty, a great deal of graduated restriction, and a lot of expense. Example: if you want a motorcycle license in England, be prepared to spend a lot of time and miles on something only slightly bigger than a moped, with a big, red, obnoxious, embarrassing "L" on each end of the bike first - no going to the dealership and buying a 600cc sportbike or Harley Davidson for your first motorcycle. Fortunately for the rulemakers, Europe in general tends to be a more regimented society with a long history of some degree of regimentation, so the rules stick a lot easier.

Europeans often speak disparagingly of the American "cowboy" attitude, with a certain core of accuracy in their bigotry. Attempting to regiment Americans to follow changing rules made "for their own good" is not unlike herding cats. And about as pleasurable an experience. Yet that cowboy attitude is what has made an American different from a European, for better and/or worse. And it certainly shows in the way we drive.

While a European attitude towards driving isn't absolutely necessary for the flowering of cycling as transportation, it'd certainly help a great deal. But that attitude isn't going to happen.

The concept of a unified continent wide advocacy group is necessary to begin lobbying for change.

Evidence of that ^^^^ is in the pictures from Munich. I've seen the same things in other German towns.

Scattered around the US, you'd see a variety of signage and bike lane markings. There isn't anything truly consistent or predictable.

I understand the concept of letting states make their own laws, but sometimes that concept just isn't practical enough.

Go to La Quinta, CA. I remember one 15 month period without a drop of rain. And the roads were flat, had wide curbs and the streets were pretty fresh so very few potholes. Of course there are 120 degree temps in summer and plenty of goathead thorns.

I'll stick to the wet weather, thank you very much... Complaints about the rain are common here, but secretly we like it. I've noticed that if the temps get above 85F, people act like they're melting. And, for the record, we have way more people on bikes lately than I've ever seen, especially in the last six months or so.
Still, I can't help thinking that the weather is a deterrent for some...

Make it stop raining. :)

:lol:

Fortunately for the rulemakers, Europe in general tends to be a more regimented society with a long history of some degree of regimentation, so the rules stick a lot easier.


Yes. My father's generation had to go and sort things out when that tendancy got out of hand.

What are the odds of anything like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE4fvwTBtno
being built in the States? Zero?

What are the odds of anything like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE4fvwTBtno
being built in the States? Zero?

Well, I could see them making an automatic bicycle crusher. But parking lot? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Other videos I've seen of this system show one parking deck with at least 8 of these subterranean towers, maybe more. It's pretty neat. But, I can't think of a place that needs one at current levels (but I haven't been to all places.) They apparently have problems with people parking bikes illegal. I use the word "problem" begrudgingly.

What are the odds of anything like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE4fvwTBtno
being built in the States? Zero?

that is way too cool!

as for large scale commuting I've read that almost a quarter of the US is obese, good luck getting them on bikes. thats a clear side effect of sedentary lifestyles, those people wont give up the car.

(im not making fun of fat people either some of them are actually more fit than skinny people.)