Advocacy & Safety - deadly zip-ties?

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/15975744/detail.html

I've heard of this happening with wire strung across the road or sidewalk. Kinda scary, though rare so far.

I would have no reservation or guilt about stringing up anyone I caught doing this.

I had this happen to me once...a neighbour strung a wire from his fence to a tree on the corner of his property and I just happened to jump across the corner of his lot when I was running home (I'd never touch his grass).

Although it was on his property it was put there specifically to deter anyone who might take a shortcut but the fact the wire was black and not tagged made it impossible for me to see it in the dark and I hit it in a full on sprint and it caught be just below the shoulders and came down hard.

I crawled home (and was a walking bruise afterwards) and told my step father what had happened... he went to visit the neighbour with a pair of wire cutters... I could hear him yelling 4 houses away and he was promising some pretty nasty things if the guy had any problem with the wire coming down.

My step father was five foot ten and 350 pounds of muscle... the guy admitted he had put the wire up to teach those damn kids a lesson and he's lucky he didn't get the beating of his life.

There was some news a while back about a fellow that was stringing wire across off road trails... the guy was lucky to have been caught by the police and not by any mountain bikers.

FTA: Police are not sure if the incidents were pranks or something more serious.


Uh-huh. Because all good pranks involve the intent to decapitate someone.

I would suggest that the neighbor install a white picket fence. The will allow him to keep out the trespassers that are "Jumping" through his yard, without added liability. The above mentioned possible fight would be Battery against the 350 pound guy. As it was, he should have been taken in for Assault and probably trespassing.

I would suggest that the neighbor install a white picket fence. The will allow him to keep out the trespassers that are "Jumping" through his yard, without added liability. The above mentioned possible fight would be Battery against the 350 pound guy. As it was, he should have been taken in for Assault and probably trespassing.

His story makes me think that this was a decade or two ago when men hashed things out between themselves.

Besides... if someone did that to my kid, I'd accept a battery charge in exchange for giving a beating that the neighbor is unlikely to forget. Besides, I'll bet that there are laws on the books regarding a deadly booby trapping your property to ward off unsuspecting kids doing harmless deeds.

Ya know...if someone did something like this that resulted in harm to one of my daughters or step sons I can't promise anything.

This was almost 30 years ago... damn... I'm old.

Besides... if someone did that to my kid, I'd accept a battery charge in exchange for giving a beating that the neighbor is unlikely to forget. Besides, I'll bet that there are laws on the books regarding a deadly booby trapping your property to ward off unsuspecting kids doing harmless deeds.

I concur on all accounts. I recall that some shop owners were prosecuted for setting booby traps for thieves. My guess is that the law would be less forgiving for those trespassing the corner of one's yard.

Is it just me, or does the photo in the news story show an intersection sans any impediments?

-Kurt

I would have no reservation or guilt about stringing up anyone I caught doing this.

I had this happen to me once...a neighbour strung a wire from his fence to a tree on the corner of his property and I just happened to jump across the corner of his lot when I was running home (I'd never touch his grass).

Although it was on his property it was put there specifically to deter anyone who might take a shortcut but the fact the wire was black and not tagged made it impossible for me to see it in the dark and I hit it in a full on sprint and it caught be just below the shoulders and came down hard.

I crawled home (and was a walking bruise afterwards) and told my step father what had happened... he went to visit the neighbour with a pair of wire cutters... I could hear him yelling 4 houses away and he was promising some pretty nasty things if the guy had any problem with the wire coming down.

My step father was five foot ten and 350 pounds of muscle... the guy admitted he had put the wire up to teach those damn kids a lesson and he's lucky he didn't get the beating of his life.

There was some news a while back about a fellow that was stringing wire across off road trails... the guy was lucky to have been caught by the police and not by any mountain bikers.
i had that problem with school kids(i have a fence) it all ended when i took the pitbull off the leash when i let him out. the cops pretty much guaranteed that i wont get sued because the sign clearly states "enter at your own risk". in Georgia, my friends house had a path that went through to a swimming hole kids used to come through and leave garbage all over the place and mess with the chickens he didnt hesitate in hospitalizing one of them when he caught them.

if the law was involved your dad would be sitting in the squad

How do you get zip ties to clothesline someone? How large are these things?

I'm so confused.

How do you get zip ties to clothesline someone? How large are these things?

I'm so confused.

They were strung together to make one long line.

I see.

How interesting...

They were strung together to make one long line.

That's a lot of effort to go to. Couldn't they find any fishing line?

Amateurs.

it's sad to think people out there do this with intent to hurt others. Can't we all just live in peace lol
I hope it doesn't start happening all over the place, because with gas prices soaring there'll be more bikers, and more potential for people to get hurt. Ridiculous, to think you have to worry about your son or daughter getting decapitated while riding around on their bike. and me on my electric bike I'll be out before I hit the ground :( no gracias

it's sad to think people out there do this with intent to hurt others. Can't we all just live in peace lol
I hope it doesn't start happening all over the place, because with gas prices soaring there'll be more bikers, and more potential for people to get hurt. Ridiculous, to think you have to worry about your son or daughter getting decapitated while riding around on their bike. and me on my electric bike I'll be out before I hit the ground :( no gracias
It's actually ironic. I was talking to someone whom I work with who used to work in Germany (I think he was in the U.S military). Apparently, at the time he used to take this bike path to work. SInce he would get up very early and ride in the dark (he had headlights), he once endoed because some idiots were placing branches across the bike bath to trip up cyclists. He was the branch too late to fully brake. He wasn't injured but it goes to show the stupidity of people.

Then you have the knuckle-heads who play with laser pointers. There have been reports of people having laser pointers pointed in their eyes at traffic lights, causing temporary or permanent eye damage/blindness.

Then not really deadly, but irritating. On the minuteman trail, last year some genius was walking along the trail and breaking bottles. This year, I came across a cyclist with two flats. Apparently, someone had placed tacks on the path (the cyclist picked up the ones he could find and placed them off to the side).

People are stupid, it just seems of late that people do the absolutely stupid things without thinking of the consequences. If they catch the knuckle-head who did the zip tie thing I hope they don't brush it off as a prank gone bad and just slap him on the wrist. Charge the mofo with attempted murder.

Is it just me, or does the photo in the news story show an intersection sans any impediments?

-Kurt

I'd guess they took it down immediately?

My nephew had a similar incident, perpetrated by the school district of all places. Seems the principal had a rope place across the drive way to prevent traffic from using it as a turn around during a school event. He had the foresight to place several traffic cones underneath but didn't place any flags or such on the rope.

My nephew and his friend came tearing down the hill towards the drive and the rope caught him across the neck, flinging him off the bike.

Almost before his body hit the ground the principal came rushing out, his first act being to take down the rope.

This was some 10 years ago, the now young man still has quite a scar on his neck. I think they settled with the school system for $100,000 out of court.

Scary stuff. I just hope the media keeps it local and low key - a good and bad idea I know. It's not that I don't want to be aware of it but rather it scares me to think of the wanna-be's stringing these things up, especially on MUPs (which I avoid like the plague anyway).

As if I haven't spent enough money on lights, reflective gear, etc to keep JAMs in check. Now what do I need? A neck and face protector because some jack*** strings wire or zips? Geeez! The pure evil in the world appalls me. :mad:

That's scary, even for pedestrians. My parents are from a very small town, were fences between back yards are just starting to spring up. One night dad was cutting through a neighbors backyard at the end of a jog, he clotheslined himself on a clothesline(It was nighttime) and busted his ankle up, a couple of pins(and 8 weeks) later he was good to go. I don't want to think of what would happen if someone hit that on a bike going full speed ahead.

That's a lot of effort to go to. Couldn't they find any fishing line?

Amateurs.

And fishing line would just about be invisible. Perhaps runners and pedestrians would see the zip ties but cyclists and motorcyclists would not.

People are stupid, it just seems of late that people do the absolutely stupid things without thinking of the consequences. If they catch the knuckle-head who did the zip tie thing I hope they don't brush it off as a prank gone bad and just slap him on the wrist. Charge the mofo with attempted murder.

I started to reply saying "exactly, charge them with what it really is and stop letting people get away with "jokes" that could kill someone," but then I realized that the kind of person who really does not think before doing something won't think about that consequence either. However, it might stop the people who think only in terms of self-preservation, or clue in some that seem to have taken their cues from Jackass and old cartoons.

I don't know about the "lately" part - the consequences are changing, but I don't think the behaviour is new in itself. There were some kids in my high school who thought dropping things from an overpass onto the highway would be funny. They started with water balloons but got one hell of a shock when they moved up to rocks and promptly got arrested. Their parents tried the "but they're only kiiids! they didn't mean it!" argument, only to be told in no uncertain terms that they were lucky not to be charged too, as accessories or some such. That was nearly 20 years ago though.

This is scary stuff. And people who do this should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law: intent to injure or kill is not lightweight stuff.

I'm sad to say my college was guilty of something similar. We had a path that the maintenance crews could drive around on and one end of it came out on a public street. One day somebody decided to install a chain at the street to prevent cars from driving on to the campus with zero warning and no flags. Fortunately it was a low chain, but unfortunately it still caught a cyclist and flipped him over the chain and on to the ground. Considering this was private property he rode on to and he wasn't a college student I don't think any charges were filed. Still, these kinds can do some nasty damage whether or not they're intentional.

His story makes me think that this was a decade or two ago when men hashed things out between themselves.

Besides... if someone did that to my kid, I'd accept a battery charge in exchange for giving a beating that the neighbor is unlikely to forget. Besides, I'll bet that there are laws on the books regarding a deadly booby trapping your property to ward off unsuspecting kids doing harmless deeds.There sure are. There's no defense to setting a booby trap.

I'm sad to say my college was guilty of something similar. We had a path that the maintenance crews could drive around on and one end of it came out on a public street. One day somebody decided to install a chain at the street to prevent cars from driving on to the campus with zero warning and no flags. Fortunately it was a low chain, but unfortunately it still caught a cyclist and flipped him over the chain and on to the ground. Considering this was private property he rode on to and he wasn't a college student I don't think any charges were filed. Still, these kinds can do some nasty damage whether or not they're intentional.Just because he didn't file charges doesn't mean he couldn't have filed charges...and won.

If they catch the knuckle-head who did the zip tie thing I hope they don't brush it off as a prank gone bad and just slap him on the wrist. Charge the mofo with attempted murder.+1

A friend of mine has a scar on his cheek from some kids running fish line accross the trail, he had just looked back at me and got it right at the corner of his mouth. Luckily it caught on his teeth and broke otherwise I think he would have had some serious injuries. As it was it was a good bleader, but not life threatening. We DID end up catching the guys though.

Think as long as you tube is going to allow 'bragging' films, the problem will contiue to grow. It's 'cool' to see on the web, so lets put something up for everyone else to watch.

sounds as though someone found a bunch of zip ties and started looking for something to do with them, often find 5-6ft long x1/4-1/2 zip ties in bundles laying around the trash can at construction sites, or you can pick up the zip-tie 'kits' that have a spool of cable tie material with a package of ends to 'custom' build cable ties any length you need.

Ken.

Someone did this to our cross country trail in HS with high test fishing line. They strung it at ankle height in some places and neck height in others. Did a number of one guys shins; I'd describe it to you but then you'd have nightmares. The neck high one was found by the shortest member of the team, he felt something touch his hair as he went under, got lucky on that one. We practiced on the track for a couple of days while the police investigated it. I don't think they ever found the numbskull.

I'm constantly amazed at how little some people value others.

On the other hand Steve McQueen did it towards the end of "The Great Escape". Loved it then.

if the law was involved your dad would be sitting in the squad

If the law was involved, they would have decided that wire was a "deadly man trap." - That would be the legal term.

If the law was involved, they would have decided that wire was a "deadly man trap." - That would be the legal term.

Do you think they could have gotten a good amount of rent from the house of the guy that strung the wire, after they won it in the court settlement?

Then you have the knuckle-heads who play with laser pointers. There have been reports of people having laser pointers pointed in their eyes at traffic lights, causing temporary or permanent eye damage/blindness.




I worked professionally with lasers for years. This is a common urban legend. _Legal_ laser pointers aren't going to blind anyone from any reasonable distance, and besides, the chances of aiming one into a 5-7 mm circle (human eye pupil) for long enough to cause damage, even if the powere were high enough, are miniscule to boot. I agree, though, that the perpetrators are knuckleheads and it's dangerous for a whole host of other reasons. Nobody deserves to be harassed in that fashion.

You might be hurt if you stared into one for 60 seconds:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2005-rst/2800.html

Also, the psychological phemomenon of "hysterical blindness" can come into play, where someone "can't see" because they think they can't, although there's no actual damage. (read down the page at the following link)
http://www.drgreene.com/21_591.html

I've never been able to find a single documented case of eye damage caused by such exposure to a _legal_ power level laser pointer. The only case I've heard of that came close is this one:

http://www.eschoolnews.com/news/top-news/index.cfm?i=31839&CFID=3289772&CFTOKEN=64861306

where a 7th grader was injured by a laser pointer shone into his eye multiple times for up to 5 seconds, meaning either the victim was in on the game, or somebody held him down.



GF

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/15975744/detail.html

I wonder if less of this crap would happen if people poked their heads out of their houses and enjoyed the great outdoors instead of worshiping the tv commercials. I suppose there's still late at night.

I worked professionally with lasers for years. This is a common urban legend. _Legal_ laser pointers aren't going to blind anyone from any reasonable distance, and besides, the chances of aiming one into a 5-7 mm circle (human eye pupil) for long enough to cause damage, even if the powere were high enough, are miniscule to boot. I agree, though, that the perpetrators are knuckleheads and it's dangerous for a whole host of other reasons. Nobody deserves to be harassed in that fashion.

You might be hurt if you stared into one for 60 seconds:
http://www.mayoclinic.org/news2005-rst/2800.html

Also, the psychological phemomenon of "hysterical blindness" can come into play, where someone "can't see" because they think they can't, although there's no actual damage. (read down the page at the following link)
http://www.drgreene.com/21_591.html

I've never been able to find a single documented case of eye damage caused by such exposure to a _legal_ power level laser pointer. The only case I've heard of that came close is this one:

http://www.eschoolnews.com/news/top-news/index.cfm?i=31839&CFID=3289772&CFTOKEN=64861306

where a 7th grader was injured by a laser pointer shone into his eye multiple times for up to 5 seconds, meaning either the victim was in on the game, or somebody held him down.
.

GF
The key point is legal power level laser pointer. A red laser pointer won't do much damage, a green laser pointer is worse (but your eyes blink reflex) is fast enough to protect you. I do astronomy as a hobby and some of the people I view with use green lasers for pointing, but they are extra careful.
And people can get their hands on stronger lasers (intentionally or unintentionally).

Take a look in this discussions. What prompted this was knuckle-heads pointing lasers at planes but you will see a comment from a guy who had the misfortune to be partially blinded by some genius who was pointing a laser at patrons waiting to enter a club. If you do it long enough you are going to hit paydirt and have the beam or a reflection go into someones eye.
http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/21/0340249&from=rss

And from the straight Dope
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mlaserpoint.html

It'd be sweet to catch one of these scumbags stringing wire or fishing line across a trail or thoroughfare. I think it would be poetic justice to work them over with a good ass whipping and then tie them up to the nearest immovable object with their own line. Make the knots EXTRA tight.

Worthless *******s.

At the beginning of winter some funneh dudes put a construction sign in the middle of the road, sideways. Picture that downhill after a curve over a gravel backdrop at night, didn't notice it until I was about to hit it, went flying. Left a nice dent on my handlebars. What a clever practical joke.
http://i32.tinypic.com/2il1wf4.jpg

JeanCoutu

dude ... how did you reverse the font?

bravo ... :beer:

It's actually not upside down, but rather using chars that look like upside down letters. So for example the p is written with a d, the y uses ʎ and so on. There's lots of tools to do this if if you google, here's one:
http://www.fliptext.info/index.php

This happend in Aus Recently
SOme "vigalante" neighbors got sick of pocket bikes (mini motor bikes)
so they put wire accross a path
AN 8 yr girl on a mountain bike copped it in the neck

I had this happen to me 20 years ago when an illegal immigrant working for a construction company put up a guy wire to hold new street lights in place. One of the guy wires crossed over the sidewalk. The wire cut into my chest when I rode into it. I broke my tail bone when I fell to the sidewalk. I remember noting how visible the wire was after I hit it, but I never saw it when I was riding.

The Construction company was fined for placing the wire across the walkway and for having non-documented workers. I am sure today there would have been lawsuits for stuff like this. The company paid my medical bills which were pretty small at the time. It took a week before they moved the wire.

The key point is legal power level laser pointer. A red laser pointer won't do much damage, a green laser pointer is worse (but your eyes blink reflex) is fast enough to protect you. I do astronomy as a hobby and some of the people I view with use green lasers for pointing, but they are extra careful.
And people can get their hands on stronger lasers (intentionally or unintentionally).

Take a look in this discussions. What prompted this was knuckle-heads pointing lasers at planes but you will see a comment from a guy who had the misfortune to be partially blinded by some genius who was pointing a laser at patrons waiting to enter a club. If you do it long enough you are going to hit paydirt and have the beam or a reflection go into someones eye.
http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/04/21/0340249&from=rss

And from the straight Dope
http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mlaserpoint.html


I looked in the slashdot discussion. I think I'm still not willing to accept a post by someone going by the nom de plume "anonymous coward" as a documented case without some other corroborating evidence. People say a lot of things in forums ;) I still haven't seen what I'd consider a documented case of injury in these circumstances. I haven't searched the medical literature, but the three opthalmologists I've asked had never heard of one either.

The Straight Dope article is pretty good, but, again, most of the fear comes down to: Well, if the angle is _just_ right, and the phase of the moon is correct... Given the number of knuckleheads playing with these things, there should be tons of cases of injuries if the risk were above the background noise.

Most of it comes down to the difference between perceived risk, and actual risk. Like how so many people think driving is safer than flying. Or like the person I work with who jogs in the street and cycles on the sidewalk.

GF

similar to this story...

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- U.S. border officers found a wire between two fences along the U.S.-Mexican border that, when stretched taut, could have seriously harmed or even decapitated Border Patrol agents, Congress was told Wednesday... (http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/13/border.wire/index.html)

That's just pure evil ... bet they do some bad things to pets too. <shakes head> What kind of vendetta is it out there to eliminate bicyclists using this tactic? effin sickos

I looked in the slashdot discussion. I think I'm still not willing to accept a post by someone going by the nom de plume "anonymous coward" as a documented case without some other corroborating evidence. People say a lot of things in forums ;) I still haven't seen what I'd consider a documented case of injury in these circumstances. I haven't searched the medical literature, but the three opthalmologists I've asked had never heard of one either.

I know this isn't the same as medical literature, but I'd be concerned if someone shone this in my eye.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRQWAu8GFyc