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Its come to this. My car dependent co-workers have recognized that it is easier for me to get around than they. I've been assigned to carry stuff to the main office a couple miles away. "You're the best one to do it because you have a bike. Everyone else available has to drive their cars or take the subway. Its less of a hassle for you so you have to do it." I'm not saying they are going to get a clue and start biking to work, then they wouldn't have the excuse to make me carry the stuff to the head office. The boss promised I could leave early too. OK, leave work early and ride your bike around on a nice spring day. Whats not to like?
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What qualifies as "stuff?"
Sounds more like they are trying to punish you or teach you a lesson to me.
Now that you're a bike messenger, you have an excuse to get those tats and piercings you've been wanting... Not to mention a fixie.
What qualifies as "stuff?"
Just some envelopes, no big deal.
Since it's official business, make sure you get it in writing from your HR department that you are covered under BWC for any injuries (hopefully none,) sustained while making company deliveries on your bike.
Sounds more like they are trying to punish you or teach you a lesson to me.
If so, only in their mind, like trying to punish a monkey by forcing it to climb trees and pick fruit. It'd be like me telling one of them "Today you've gotta sit on the couch sucking brews eating pizza and watching Oprah. Sorry but thats the way it is you've got a bigger butt and softer couch than me so you gotta be the one to do it - and don't forget we don't want you working up a sweat so if the temp gets over 70 you gotta remember to crank the AC and wash down that pizza with some ice cream OK?"
When I worked for a major aerospace company, my job was to carry boxes or objects between point A and point B and I was enabled to use whatever tool I needed to carry it. That was my job description.
Certainly carrying circuit cards between company locations separated by a mile or two on my bicycle was within those specifications. :) Especially when I could get there faster than any other people could get to their car in the parking lot and the truck drivers would take a day at minimum to get the cards there.
The most fun part was that my Dad worked in the other site, so I could go visit him when I was there.
Sounds like you got the cake and are eating it too ....but good point to check on the insurance thing.
I wonder if it is cheaper for the company also.
Someone may drive and fill out an expense report for the miles driven as part of work.
Someone takes the subway and fills out an expense report for the ticket, unless they have an unlimited pass that is.
Someone rides their bike and no espenses occur plus they are so happy about riding their bike they don't complain :D
Ask them to install a shower and indoor storage area for your bicycle if they haven't already done that. :)
I wonder if it is cheaper for the company also.
Someone may drive and fill out an expense report for the miles driven as part of work.
Someone takes the subway and fills out an expense report for the ticket, unless they have an unlimited pass that is.
Someone rides their bike and no espenses occur plus they are so happy about riding their bike they don't complain :D
That is kind of me... My company pays me to use my truck, however I hate having to sit behind the wheel for 8 hours a week getting to and from my home:( and to my out of town jobsites. Fortunately Amtrak makes the run:D I get 6.5 hours of relaxing per week and the company saves over $70 a week in mileage costs.;) they cover the costs of the ticket. Win/Win in my book! I also get off early on the Fridays I go home, another win.
Aaron:)
Its come to this. My car dependent co-workers have recognized that it is easier for me to get around than they. I've been assigned to carry stuff to the main office a couple miles away. "You're the best one to do it because you have a bike. Everyone else available has to drive their cars or take the subway. Its less of a hassle for you so you have to do it." I'm not saying they are going to get a clue and start biking to work, then they wouldn't have the excuse to make me carry the stuff to the head office. The boss promised I could leave early too. OK, leave work early and ride your bike around on a nice spring day. Whats not to like?
Where do I apply for this job?
Someone rides their bike and no espenses [sic] occur plus they are so happy about riding their bike they don't complain :D
Actually, it is truly reasonable for you to negotiate a reduced "mileage" rate for wear and tear on your bike. You can make this situation EVEN SWEETER if you can score the occasional tires/tubes/lube/basic maintenance gear. It'd still be much cheaper than car mileage and you get more in return out of a fair expectation.
You should whine and complain about the horrible burden you have to bear, transporting documents by bike. Maybe they'll give you comp time.
Also, I think it's pretty significant that your coworkers recognize that a bike is a more effective means of transport than anything else. The effects are not apparent now, but maybe other workers will follow your lead in the future.
Its come to this. My car dependent co-workers have recognized that it is easier for me to get around than they. I've been assigned to carry stuff to the main office a couple miles away. "You're the best one to do it because you have a bike. Everyone else available has to drive their cars or take the subway. Its less of a hassle for you so you have to do it." ...
One should always be very careful when combining your leisure activities with your employer's activities.
How much money-advantage are you seeing by being allowed to leave early? Are you "earning" more or less than a courier service would? If you're doing this for less than another business would charge, then I would advise you to press for a perk or benefit for doing this. Not necessarily more money, but maybe more personal/sick days allowed, that sort of thing.
That you enjoy it is beside the point--the fact is, you are doing a job that nobody else wants to do.
Also consider, what you are missing out on in terms of office politics because you're doing delivery when everyone else is doing {something else}. If they promoted you would you still deliver stuff? Because if they think not, then it may tend to be other people who get promoted over you.
~
Soooo... how much fun is it going to be when you HAVE to run the errands in the rain with a gale blowing? Doesn't it snow in DC, too? And you don't REALLY believe what a boss says about leaving early, do you?
At my corp you can be reimbursed $0.35/km for doing company work in your own vehicle. I read the fine print and nowhere does it say "motor" vehicle. Check that out
Submit a mileage form. You used your vehicle for company business.
At my corp you can be reimbursed $0.35/km for doing company work in your own vehicle. I read the fine print and nowhere does it say "motor" vehicle. Check that out
We have the same rule. Of course they don't let me out much :(
Soooo... how much fun is it going to be when you HAVE to run the errands in the rain with a gale blowing?
Depends upon how adventurous you are.
Some of my most memorable rides were in New England snowstorms and Florida downpours.
One should always be very careful when combining your leisure activities with your employer's activities.
How much money-advantage are you seeing by being allowed to leave early? Are you "earning" more or less than a courier service would? If you're doing this for less than another business would charge, then I would advise you to press for a perk or benefit for doing this. Not necessarily more money, but maybe more personal/sick days allowed, that sort of thing.
That you enjoy it is beside the point--the fact is, you are doing a job that nobody else wants to do.
Also consider, what you are missing out on in terms of office politics because you're doing delivery when everyone else is doing {something else}. If they promoted you would you still deliver stuff? Because if they think not, then it may tend to be other people who get promoted over you.
~
+1 to this. You are being used for something that may be outside your job description. While you are out of the office running errands, is everyone else getting work done and you have to make it up? It is not your problem that they drive cars, and while you may like getting the opportunity to ride your bike, I cannot see this helping you out career-wise.
I think that's pretty sweet, actually.
Hey, the main thing is they recognize a bike is better than a car, that is progress.
Its an occasional thing, my official job description has the "...and other duties as assigned..." clause. No one gets mileage, except if the boss makes an exception. If anyone starts getting mileage I'm pretty sure I'd get it at the same rate. The previous boss took me aside and told me that if I ever didn't feel like biking just take a cab and she'd sign off on the expense report. I never took her up on it, even in the winter. Believe it or not I actually like car free living even in the bad weather. The career thing might be an issue. When I have to hang with the suits at HQ they chuckle when I show up in suit and tie and bike helmet. Funny thing is several have cornered me outside meetings with "My wife wants me to start biking, what do you recommend." Or "I bike on weekends, do you think I could take the family camping by bicycle?" things like that. Parking is such an issue I think most people see my biking to meetings or to the main job site as freeing up a parking space. This is especially true at the main site, if I started driving I'd bump someone from the assigned spaces.
On the mileage thing. Once I had to take a company trip to a part of New Jersery with uncertain public transport. Under the contract rental cars were disallowed but mileage at the government rate was allowed. I rented a car and charged the mileage rate- honestly. I figured I could eat a few dollars in the name of company loyalty. Well, I came out twenty dollars or so ahead. I told accounting that I'd accept just the rental cost but they said "We have to follow the rules we can only give you the per mile expense so you have to take the check for the full amount." So even if you own a car doing the rental thing for company business can be a good choice.
It's better for the environment when you do it too. We all win!
I was able to claim mileage on my bike for company business ONE TIME...but then, I only used my bike for company business one time, so it worked out.
I only WISH there was a feature about my job that allowed something like this -- the only times anymore I get to leave the premises for company business is to go to the home-improvement store across the street to get lumber & stuff -- little tough to carry a bundle of 2x4's or cinder blocks on the bike...
Believe it or not I actually like car free living even in the bad weather.
I asked the hard question, you've given the hard answer. Good on you for both your commitment and grasping the opportunity to promote cycling positively as an alternative and useful transport mode.
... like trying to punish a monkey by forcing it to climb trees and pick fruit.
My new favorite line. Thank you.
It'd be like me telling one of them "Today you've gotta sit on the couch sucking brews eating pizza and watching Oprah. Sorry but thats the way it is you've got a bigger butt and softer couch than me so you gotta be the one to do it - and don't forget we don't want you working up a sweat so if the temp gets over 70 you gotta remember to crank the AC and wash down that pizza with some ice cream OK?"
I sense there is a slight cultural divide between you and your co-workers.
Parking is such an issue I think most people see my biking to meetings or to the main job site as freeing up a parking space. This is especially true at the main site, if I started driving I'd bump someone from the assigned spaces.
This is one of the most overlooked aspects of LCF/bike commuting/utility cycling or whatever else you want to call it. The simple fact is that every day, we make one more parking spot available for someone who needs it, whether it's at work, school, the grocery store, or the shopping mall. Any amount of time a motorist spends on the road due to having to slow down for a cyclist is more than made up by all the times they get that very last parking space or don't have to hike half a mile to their car carrying groceries and pushing a stroller.
We need to remind people of that more often.
This is one of the most overlooked aspects of LCF/bike commuting/utility cycling or whatever else you want to call it. The simple fact is that every day, we make one more parking spot available for someone who needs it, whether it's at work, school, the grocery store, or the shopping mall. Any amount of time a motorist spends on the road due to having to slow down for a cyclist is more than made up by all the times they get that very last parking space or don't have to hike half a mile to their car carrying groceries and pushing a stroller.
We need to remind people of that more often.
And they will become obnoxious and defensive...many/most people don't like to be reminded of their shortcomings:rolleyes::D
Aaron:)
They are not necessarily shortcomings. I never fault anyone for having a car and needing to drive it. The fact is this: While the car has been rhetorically attached to the idea of freedom in our society, the real truth is that it's a form of slavery and tyranny. Slavery to the all the government/industrial complexes that support it.
We are the lucky ones. We have broken the chains of slavery and headed north. For some, those chains are a lot harder to break. I really sense that from gwd's original and subsequent posts. I find it interesting that gwd's co-workers are asking, almost with a bit of subterfuge, about how they too can start using a bike for transportation. I think they realize that there's something very unnatural about driving three thousand pounds of steel and plastic around in circles looking for a place to park. They just don't know any other way.
Quite often, our anger and loathing is directed at motorists when in fact we should be standing up against the forces in our society that make people dependent on cars for transportation.
...I find it interesting that gwd's co-workers are asking, almost with a bit of subterfuge, about how they too can start using a bike for transportation...
Excellent observation.
They are not necessarily shortcomings. I never fault anyone for having a car and needing to drive it. The fact is this: While the car has been rhetorically attached to the idea of freedom in our society, the real truth is that it's a form of slavery and tyranny. Slavery to the all the government/industrial complexes that support it.
~snip~
Right there is the key...too many people consider a car a necessity...even to go a couple of blocks to the corner store. I live on family land, my wife's cousin thinks nothing of getting in his full sized pickup and driving up to the shop to work on his race car, it is all of 300 yards:rolleyes: He owns an electric golf cart...and is perfectly capable of walking that far. A vehicle is a tool, nothing more nothing less and tools get misused all the time.
Aaron:)
just make certain they're not thinking "running errands" is the upper-limit of your profitable contributions to the business!
They are not necessarily shortcomings. I never fault anyone for having a car and needing to drive it. The fact is this: While the car has been rhetorically attached to the idea of freedom in our society, the real truth is that it's a form of slavery and tyranny. Slavery to the all the government/industrial complexes that support it.
We are the lucky ones. We have broken the chains of slavery and headed north. For some, those chains are a lot harder to break.
By that rationale, aren't we (as cyclists) also slaves to an industrial complex too? The same metals that have to be mined, smelted, forged/drawn, cut, and welded for car production have to be mined, smelted, forged/drawn, cut and welded for bicycles as well. Less of them, sure, but the same businesses have to stay in business for us to have what we want. If they stopped making all those nasty cars, do you really think they'd be able to stay in business just producing frames and wheels? What about the governmental forces that, um, build the roads. They were built for cars. If there no more cars, do you really think the government would continue to maintain them for cyclists...who pay no road taxes?
Taken to its logical conclusion, freeing ourselves from the tyranny
Quite often, our anger and loathing is directed at motorists when in fact we should be standing up against the forces in our society that make people dependent on cars for transportation.
I understand and agree with your sentiment that there should be more bikes and fewer cars for more trips, (especially in the short-trip/urban-setting scenario), but I still can't get the shadowy, conspiracy-theory, black helicopter and mirror-shades tone that you seem to want to impart to the "forces in society" that you would have us stand up to, as though cyclists are somehow the vanguard of the proletariat.
Those "forces" are called "supply" and "demand." The very first thing that makes us dependant on "cars" for transportation is the fact that several hundred thousand tons of food has to get to market every day.
You know, the Greeks did that. When a subsidiary people was restless or in open revolt, one of the things the Spartans ddid was to destroy all transportation, carts, wagons, chariots, roads, boats/ships. They found that if the people ahd not the ability to freely remove from one place to another, their real freedom (as opposedc to rhetorical freedom) was drastically curtailled. Sparta wins, subsidiary peoples stay pacified.
By that rationale, aren't we (as cyclists) also slaves to an industrial complex too? The same metals that have to be mined, smelted, forged/drawn, cut, and welded for car production have to be mined, smelted, forged/drawn, cut and welded for bicycles as well.
Part of the question here is, political beliefs aside, do we really WANT to free ourselves from this tyranny?
Most posters here conveniently forget that their simplifying life for their belief in the common good is being done against a backdrop of one of the most robust economic systems in history. This oft-derided way of life that we share is why anyone here can swear off cars, air conditioning, home swimming pools or any other form of energy extravagance without making their individual lives too hard or uncomfortable.
The way of life you're attempting to work yourself down to is a way of life that the resident of some central African country (and I'm thinking of the peaceful, stable ones) would kill to climb up to. And it's the end result of the last 150 years of living in a way that's completely unnecessary to most residents of this forum. Like it or not, that nasty, derided, spit-upon automobile is (was?) a major part of our standard of living getting where it is. It's time may be turning, but it still had a role to play and it played it well.
Yeah, you want the car to go away. I'm willing to bet you still want to keep your iPod, however. And in our current economic status, you can do just that. You're not in a society where you're spending your entire day just keeping a roof over your head and the dinner table filled. You're in a society that can afford the development of iPods.
You know, the Greeks did that. When a subsidiary people was restless or in open revolt, one of the things the Spartans ddid was to destroy all transportation, carts, wagons, chariots, roads, boats/ships. They found that if the people ahd not the ability to freely remove from one place to another, their real freedom (as opposedc to rhetorical freedom) was drastically curtailled. Sparta wins, subsidiary peoples stay pacified.
Nice touch of history, and an often forgotten one. The ability to freely move about is as much a part of freedom as a free press, ability to own weapons, etc. An overly great willingness to limit one's own mobility could impinge on a society's freedom. Need a good, more current, example? Both Nazi Germany and the Warsaw Pact nations didn't allow free unlimited travel outside a nation's borders, and you had better be ready to come up with answers as to why you were traveling within one's borders, too ("your papers please!" isn't just a movie cliche).
Individual transportation (be it bicycle or Hummer) has one huge advantage over mass transit: The government cannot, bit by bit, cut it back and erode your freedom to travel. They have to do so overtly, in a manner that guarantees the maximum amount of displeasure over their actions.
I'm not the least bit against cars. I come from a long line of auto racers, and I knew how to rebuild an internal combustion engine long before I knew how to rebuild a bike.
I like cars. What I don't like is the fact that to live a normal life in our society you need to own one and use it to the point that it bankrupts you both financially and physically. It's the utter dependence on cars that I see as tyranny.
I'm lucky. I can ride a bike 30 miles a day in all kinds of weather comfortably, safely and efficiently. I'm entirely at home on a bike. I live in an area with semi-decent public transportation and I don't have children. Thus I can get by driving only about 1500 miles a year.
However, if I was not as able to ride as much as I do and had kids I needed to get to school every day, I'd be back behind the wheel for the typical 12k a year or more. As I said, public transportation where I live is only semi-decent.
So what do I want?
Basically people need alternatives to driving. Better public transportation and communities where a person can get from a to b more easily on foot or by bicycle. Many small (and not so small) towns in America are nearly impossible to get in or out of other than by car. Napa CA. is a good example. There's no direct rail, no direct bus lines, and no bikeable roads that lead into the city. And the price of public transportation, including commuter rail, needs to be set (i.e. government subsidized) so that taking the train or bus is always cheaper than driving.
Schools need to be situated so that parents don't have to send their 7 year old half way across town to attend the second grade. Every neighborhood should have an elementary school within walking distance or "kid biking" distance. Where children must cross busy streets on their way to school, crossing guards must be hired to make sure the kids get to school safely.
And there also needs to be a paradigm shift with regard to what the purpose of residential streets are. That's where people live. Therefore, the needs of the people who drive through those neighborhoods are subordinate to the needs of the people who walk, bike and play in those neighborhoods.
And something needs to be done to counter the fearmongering media which has convinced parents that it's not safe to let their children out the front door without police escort. The fact is that it's no more dangerous today for a nine year old to walk down the street than it was in 1965. The difference is that, thanks to Megans Law, parents can now find out exactly what the safest route for their child is.
These are a lot of small things, but they add up to a society where a person has a choice as to whether or not they spend 2 hours a day behind the wheel of a car, or actually living life.
Nicely thought out and written.
By that rationale, aren't we (as cyclists) also slaves to an industrial complex too? The same metals that have to be mined, smelted, forged/drawn, cut, and welded for car production have to be mined, smelted, forged/drawn, cut and welded for bicycles as well. Less of them, sure, but the same businesses have to stay in business for us to have what we want. If they stopped making all those nasty cars, do you really think they'd be able to stay in business just producing frames and wheels? What about the governmental forces that, um, build the roads. They were built for cars. If there no more cars, do you really think the government would continue to maintain them for cyclists...who pay no road taxes?
Taken to its logical conclusion, freeing ourselves from the tyranny
I understand and agree with your sentiment that there should be more bikes and fewer cars for more trips, (especially in the short-trip/urban-setting scenario), but I still can't get the shadowy, conspiracy-theory, black helicopter and mirror-shades tone that you seem to want to impart to the "forces in society" that you would have us stand up to, as though cyclists are somehow the vanguard of the proletariat.
Those "forces" are called "supply" and "demand." The very first thing that makes us dependant on "cars" for transportation is the fact that several hundred thousand tons of food has to get to market every day.
You know, the Greeks did that. When a subsidiary people was restless or in open revolt, one of the things the Spartans ddid was to destroy all transportation, carts, wagons, chariots, roads, boats/ships. They found that if the people ahd not the ability to freely remove from one place to another, their real freedom (as opposedc to rhetorical freedom) was drastically curtailled. Sparta wins, subsidiary peoples stay pacified.
The car-dependent infrastructure you describe is not the source of all good things in our civilization. Far from being a source of income, it is a huge liability. The infrastructure that has been built up to even make cars possible is the most excessive example of socialism I can even imagine. It takes enormous amounts of public money to build and maintain a system of roads that makes it possible for mothers to drive their Ford Expedition half a mile to drop their children off at school, or for people to buy mega-houses 35 miles away from their jobs. We, through our tax dollars, are supporting a system that is so inefficient economically that it almost defies description. Yes, it's fun; who doesn't want to be able to drive their BMW all over creation at high speeds? But don't even for a second imagine that it's an engine of wealth for society at large. Industrial growth in the West was actually doing a whole lot better, in real terms, before we had all this car culture to pay for. It's the perfect example of a few corporate interests reaping huge profits at the expense of everyone else.
And no, I'm not suggesting that we ban internal-combustion engines, or bring food to market via bike. We need roads, and we need trucks. But we could do better with rail in many instances, and there's no reason on earth that we should have built and maintained a huge network of high-speed roadways so that people can go buy a latte and shop for cellphones while driving a vehicle that contains a few thousand pounds of increasingly scarce steel while burning up several gallons of non-renewable fuel.
And, even though I do not own a car, I do, in fact, pay road taxes. All of us do. Property taxes are used to pay for local surface roads, and a portion of income taxes does end up paying for highways; in most states, gasoline taxes don't pay for it all. And let's not forget that roads did, in fact, exist before there were cars.
Part of the question here is, political beliefs aside, do we really WANT to free ourselves from this tyranny?
Most posters here conveniently forget that their simplifying life for their belief in the common good is being done against a backdrop of one of the most robust economic systems in history. This oft-derided way of life that we share is why anyone here can swear off cars, air conditioning, home swimming pools or any other form of energy extravagance without making their individual lives too hard or uncomfortable.
The way of life you're attempting to work yourself down to is a way of life that the resident of some central African country (and I'm thinking of the peaceful, stable ones) would kill to climb up to. And it's the end result of the last 150 years of living in a way that's completely unnecessary to most residents of this forum. Like it or not, that nasty, derided, spit-upon automobile is (was?) a major part of our standard of living getting where it is. It's time may be turning, but it still had a role to play and it played it well.
Yeah, you want the car to go away. I'm willing to bet you still want to keep your iPod, however. And in our current economic status, you can do just that. You're not in a society where you're spending your entire day just keeping a roof over your head and the dinner table filled. You're in a society that can afford the development of iPods.
Nice touch of history, and an often forgotten one. The ability to freely move about is as much a part of freedom as a free press, ability to own weapons, etc. An overly great willingness to limit one's own mobility could impinge on a society's freedom. Need a good, more current, example? Both Nazi Germany and the Warsaw Pact nations didn't allow free unlimited travel outside a nation's borders, and you had better be ready to come up with answers as to why you were traveling within one's borders, too ("your papers please!" isn't just a movie cliche).
Individual transportation (be it bicycle or Hummer) has one huge advantage over mass transit: The government cannot, bit by bit, cut it back and erode your freedom to travel. They have to do so overtly, in a manner that guarantees the maximum amount of displeasure over their actions.
There are lots of economically booming places like New York, Hong Kong and parts of Europe where car free living is the norm. They can still have ipods. In some ways cars represent an economic drag on the economy because of time lost in gridlock or lengthy commutes.
The freedom cars offer is illusory. They suck up a quarter of your lifetime income. That's an awful lot of lost travel opportunities. When we were in Europe we went everywhere by train and subway. We visited friends outside Paris and they drove us into town, then parked the car for the day as we saw the city. The next day we took the train into town - it was just as easy. I was still jetlagged so I slept on the train from Paris to Frankfurt. Try doing that while driving. North America doesn't have that transportation web because the funding has been misappropriated for cars.
Since it's official business, make sure you get it in writing from your HR department that you are covered under BWC for any injuries (hopefully none,) sustained while making company deliveries on your bike.
Excellent advice!
And let's not forget that roads did, in fact, exist before there were cars.
And history evidently tells us that we can blame cyclists for demanding that they be sealed.
The freedom cars offer is illusory. They suck up a quarter of your lifetime income. That's an awful lot of lost travel opportunities. When we were in Europe we went everywhere by train and subway. We visited friends outside Paris and they drove us into town, then parked the car for the day as we saw the city. The next day we took the train into town - it was just as easy. I was still jetlagged so I slept on the train from Paris to Frankfurt. Try doing that while driving. North America doesn't have that transportation web because the funding has been misappropriated for cars.
Did you get to try the grey hire bikes that were introduced into Paris in July last year?
The thread is drifting away from the topic that fat lazy SUV drivers, after seeing me bike around in less time and less hassle for years, have finally acknowledged that the bike is better. Not that they'll give up their cars but they don't see their cars as always superior like they used to. This is a small success in the leading by example department that some people have advocated on this forum. I didn't push it on them, I just did it and keep my mouth shut unless someone asks. But apparently they have been noticing that when we all have to go across town, I leave later than they, I arrive earlier and am not complaining about traffic and parking when I get there. I didn't think they noticed but apparently they have. There are several car free and one or two car lite people in my office- they're easy to identify they're not overweight and don't call in sick very often. If you're the only car free person at your workplace you might think that you have to explain yourself but you don't, just do it and people will eventually get a clue that you're saving money and time and your health. Four years ago I would over hear them talking about the bikers like we're kooks. Then I'd hear them say things like "Of course she can zip around on her bike- she's healthy." Now it has morphed into- "The bike is the best way to get around town."
If so, only in their mind, like trying to punish a monkey by forcing it to climb trees and pick fruit. It'd be like me telling one of them "Today you've gotta sit on the couch sucking brews eating pizza and watching Oprah. Sorry but thats the way it is you've got a bigger butt and softer couch than me so you gotta be the one to do it - and don't forget we don't want you working up a sweat so if the temp gets over 70 you gotta remember to crank the AC and wash down that pizza with some ice cream OK?"
:roflmao::roflmao:
Not that they'll give up their cars but they don't see their cars as always superior like they used to. This is a small success in the leading by example department that some people have advocated on this forum.
That's the kind of peer pressure that works on the UW-Madison campus. A large number of the professors and staff bike to work (and they don't all stop in winter). Even the most senior prof can't get a parking spot... there are few lots, and the convenient spaces are reserved for the disabled.
So keep on leading by example. Small changes do matter.
Did you get to try the grey hire bikes that were introduced into Paris in July last year?
I was there in the '90s.
If they stopped making all those nasty cars, do you really think they'd be able to stay in business just producing frames and wheels? What about the governmental forces that, um, build the roads. They were built for cars. If there no more cars, do you really think the government would continue to maintain them for cyclists...who pay no road taxes?
Yes, if people wanted to ride bikes people would make bikes and people would make roads for the bikes. I don't see your point.
I like cars. What I don't like is the fact that to live a normal life in our society you need to own one and use it to the point that it bankrupts you both financially and physically. It's the utter dependence on cars that I see as tyranny.
Agreed. I love auto racing, and to be honest that's what cars should be used for :p
By that rationale, aren't we (as cyclists) also slaves to an industrial complex too? The same metals that have to be mined, smelted, forged/drawn, cut, and welded for car production have to be mined, smelted, forged/drawn, cut and welded for bicycles as well. Less of them, sure, but the same businesses have to stay in business for us to have what we want. If they stopped making all those nasty cars, do you really think they'd be able to stay in business just producing frames and wheels? What about the governmental forces that, um, build the roads. They were built for cars. If there no more cars, do you really think the government would continue to maintain them for cyclists...who pay no road taxes?
It takes a helluva lot more resources to produce a single car than it does a single bike. According to my brother the whiz kid engineer, it takes about as much material and energy to produce a wheel on a Hummer as it does to make a single bicycle. (I will take his word for it) And BTW we could recycle those cars and build a whole crap load of bikes.
And I do pay taxes to support the roads...property taxes and sales taxes are used in my state to pay for road building and upkeep, along with gas taxes, which by the way has stayed stagnant for the past 12 years. And I guarantee that a mile of suitable cycleway costs much, much less than a mile of suitable motorway, probably on a scale of at least 500.
I understand and agree with your sentiment that there should be more bikes and fewer cars for more trips, (especially in the short-trip/urban-setting scenario), but I still can't get the shadowy, conspiracy-theory, black helicopter and mirror-shades tone that you seem to want to impart to the "forces in society" that you would have us stand up to, as though cyclists are somehow the vanguard of the proletariat.
Those "forces" are called "supply" and "demand." The very first thing that makes us dependant on "cars" for transportation is the fact that several hundred thousand tons of food has to get to market every day.
The "several hundred thousand tons of food" could be produced much closer to home and not be shipped 1500+ miles to my table, and it could be shipped using something other than OTR trucks...things like freight trains and smaller local trucks. It was done for many years in the 1920's-1950's or so. I have yet to figure WTH my local grocery store needs 45 different flavors of barbque sauce... I am actually old enough to remember the corner grocery store THAT WE WALKED TO no they didn't have 45,000+ items on the shelf, but we didn't go hungry and the stuff was right there.
Aaron:)
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