Bicycle Mechanics - Gut feeling about LBS and disc brake issue

I'm currently looking at an '03 Giant NRS 1 with Hayes disc brakes. The LBS has offered to sell it at a decent price. However, I'm suspicious that something isn't right with the brakes.

The first time I looked at the bike they had removed the disc brakes. They said that they had removed them because somebody wanted to buy them and the replacements were on order. A week later they had disc brakes back on the bike. They insisted that the brakes were an upgrade from what the original had. When I asked what model they were they said that they were the "original Hayes disc". When I looked at the Giant catalog there is no model number mentioned so I can't verify if they really are an upgrade.

When I test rode the bike the mechanic came outside and told me to take it easy on the front brake but would not give me a good reason why. I asked him if I bought the bike if I would have to take it easy on the trail too but he said no. I made several laps around the parking lot using the rear brake only and decided that what he said wasn't making sense so I made a gentle stop using the front brake at only about 5 mph. The brake stopped OK but immediately afterwords the pads started dragging (actually making a scraping sound) whereas they were not dragging before. After several more laps it was apparent the noise even though I was not braking was not going to stop.

That was a week ago. I went back to that bike store last night and they still had the bike. When I told the LBS owner that I liked everything about the bike but I had some concerns about the brakes he got very defensive. I told him that I was reading mixed reviews on the brakes and felt that I had good reason to ask questions before I made a purchase. He told me that I shouldn't believe what I read on the Internet!

I told him that I'd buy the bike if he put on something different such as the Shimano BR-M755 XT. I even offered to pay the difference in price if there was one. He got upset and walked off. As I was looking around the store at the other bike I overheard him arguing with one of his employees. The employee was actually siding with me and saying that if I offered to pay the difference that he should do it.

The owner came back and told me that NO he would not swap equipment because it would mean that he would have an extra set of disc brakes. He said that he already had two other sets of the same model and he didn't want to have a third that he couldn't sell! Of course this is contradictory to the original story they gave me of why the bike was missing the brakes when I first looked at it. If he already had two other sets in stock why would he need to take brakes off of a bike to sell to a customer?

He then offered to lower the price even more if I paid cash. The price has already gone from $2100.00 to $1550.00. I told them I'd have to think about it and left.

I have not had disc brakes on a bike before. I wasn't originally looking for a bike with disc brakes but would not be opposed to them if I knew that I wouldn't be working on them all the time.I know that I should expect a break in period of about a hundred miles or so before the brakes work properly but the bike is still on the showroom, should they be dragging already?

Because of the way the LBS owner has reacted to my questions my gut feeling tells me that something is wrong with the brakes and the dealer is trying to unload them on me. What do you all think?

Can you see if the disc rotor is warped?
If they're not warped, perhaps they're adjusted too tightly?
Or perhaps, they didn't seat the caliper straight with the rotor.
Maybe you could get them to lower the price by the amount of the price of a new front brakeset. In case something is wrong with it you can just replace it with the difference in price.

Honestly this does not sound like a good LBS.. when I first started reading you're post here I thought you are just being paranoid.. But I kept a open mind and read the rest. In the end go somewhere else, they did not treat you well so why should you spend $1500+ there. They definately lied to you at some point.. so why trust them. Now if you can not find that bike anywhere else for less then let's say 1800 get it there and just never go back go elsewhere buy the brakes you want.

Sounds like this LBS sucks, go somewhere else, they are apparent liars, and bad ones at that. I do not do business with places like that, and I would point it out to the owner why before I left.

ehenz

It sounds like a dodgy place to deal with. I guess the big question is: how great a deal is it? If it's worth risking having to buy a replacement brake, then maybe go for it. I don't know a lot about disc brakes yet, so not sure what could be wrong with it and what potential there is for failure.

The bigger concern about dealing with this place would be any other warranty-type service work. If they're that bad before you've even bought from them, imagine how they might treat you after they already have your money!

Personally I do not like the way your LBS sounds, and I would look else where, but if you are stuck on that bike try this...
If he has two other sets of the same model of disc brakes, then could you have him take off the front set and put on one of the other front sets, that way if it is the rotor, or something else on that set, you would not be stuck with it
Personally if he shoots down that idea, then you know there is something wrong with the set that he is tring to sell you
I would watch him personally and try the bike out before you buy it

Anyone that lies to you does NOT deserve your business. RUN AWAY!!!

To me support your LBS really means support your good LBS.

Hayes brakes come with a 2 year warranty so if they are defective you could always get them replaced by Hayes without dealing with that dealer again. If the bike is a great deal then buy it and get the problem fixed. You will probably still be out ahead. If you are still unsure then give Hayes a call and tell them your story, maybe they can be of some assistance or give you some pointers on what exactly to look at. Their consumer number is 1-888-686-3472

-Ryan

I go with BikerRyan. If you are getting a great deal then give it some serious consideration. Hayes has an excellent rep for standing behind their products. If something is wrong they will most likely support you. But give them a call and discuss it before you purchase. Make sure you have all the info on the brakes (model, what bike it is on, etc.).

Thanks everybody for reinforcing me on this one. I decided against buying from this LBS regardless of the bike or the deal. The dealer informed me that if I purchased the bike and payed with my credit card he was going to charge me an additional 4%!!! He whined and carried on about how the credit card companies charged him so he was going to pass the charge on to all of his customers. The thing is that I know for a fact that they don't charge him 4%. The credit card companies usually charge 1.9%. So I think he was even trying to make additional money off the transaction. He is also the only LBS in town that does this. I asked him if it was because he was discounting the bike and he said no that is what he charges all of his customers! After adding tax to the price of the bike 4% would be an additional $67.20!!! Forget it!!! I could have easily have written him a check but decided to just pass on the whole deal. His overall attitude just gave me a bad feeling.

Now to the good news. This morning I started calling bike shops in other towns to see what was available. I found a shop 125 miles away that sells Santa Cruz bikes and frames. (Previously I didn't know there was one in our state.) I drove there this afternoon and test rode a bike he had already built up and was really impressed. He made me a really good deal on the frame and sold me some other components for half price! I was also a lot more impressed with the overall attitude of the LBS there. They were really great to deal with. They answered all of my questions and acted like they appreciated my business. While I was there I also observed how they treated their other customers. The difference was like night and day from the previous dealer.

Now I have to take my wife out to dinner before I can start building up my bike. I guess I'll be up late!!!

Thanks again!

Sounds like it could be 2 things.

1)The brakes have not been bled correctly.
2)The person who set them up doesn't know how to set up a disc brake.

The dealer informed me that if I purchased the bike and payed with my credit card he was going to charge me an additional 4%!!! He whined and carried on about how the credit card companies charged him so he was going to pass the charge on to all of his customers.

Krispy,

According to the credit card associations this is a major violation and
he (the LBS owner) could lose his ability to accept credit cards.
Glad you found another shop, this one sounds way more than just
dodgy to me. Verging on illegal?

Hey, you gonna ride that disc braked, shock absorber behmoth on HHH
next year?

Marty

Hey, you gonna ride that disc braked, shock absorber behmoth on HHH
next year?

Marty


Hey Lotek! :D

Heck no I'm not riding that on HHH. :lol: Hopefully the mtb will keep me riding through winter so I don't gain any more weight.

My next project is building up a touring bike for loaded touring. Since doing Freewheel I've really had the itch to do more. I'd really like to have a good touring bike. I had a thread over in the touring forum. Maybe I'll do HHH on a touring bike next year.

p.s.

I'm putting V-brakes on the Santa Cruz frame for now. :D

To me support your LBS really means support your good LBS.

I agree!

Thanks everybody for reinforcing me on this one. I decided against buying from this LBS regardless of the bike or the deal. The dealer informed me that if I purchased the bike and payed with my credit card he was going to charge me an additional 4%!!! He whined and carried on about how the credit card companies charged him so he was going to pass the charge on to all of his customers. The thing is that I know for a fact that they don't charge him 4%. The credit card companies usually charge 1.9%. So I think he was even trying to make additional money off the transaction. He is also the only LBS in town that does this. I asked him if it was because he was discounting the bike and he said no that is what he charges all of his customers! After adding tax to the price of the bike 4% would be an additional $67.20!!! Forget it!!! I could have easily have written him a check but decided to just pass on the whole deal. His overall attitude just gave me a bad feeling.

Now to the good news. This morning I started calling bike shops in other towns to see what was available. I found a shop 125 miles away that sells Santa Cruz bikes and frames. (Previously I didn't know there was one in our state.) I drove there this afternoon and test rode a bike he had already built up and was really impressed. He made me a really good deal on the frame and sold me some other components for half price! I was also a lot more impressed with the overall attitude of the LBS there. They were really great to deal with. They answered all of my questions and acted like they appreciated my business. While I was there I also observed how they treated their other customers. The difference was like night and day from the previous dealer.

Now I have to take my wife out to dinner before I can start building up my bike. I guess I'll be up late!!!

Thanks again!


glad to see that things worked out. plain and simple the first LBS was dishonest, and that is reason enough not to do business with them.

as a side note, in the shop I work at, I am always 100% honest, even if I make a mistake (or the customer asks me a question I don't know) there is no reason to lie it just makes people not want to deal with you.

Yea your LBS seems sort of shady. I'd go somewhere else or something.

Thanks everybody for reinforcing me on this one. I decided against buying from this LBS regardless of the bike or the deal. The dealer informed me that if I purchased the bike and payed with my credit card he was going to charge me an additional 4%!!! He whined and carried on about how the credit card companies charged him so he was going to pass the charge on to all of his customers. The thing is that I know for a fact that they don't charge him 4%. The credit card companies usually charge 1.9%. So I think he was even trying to make additional money off the transaction. He is also the only LBS in town that does this. I asked him if it was because he was discounting the bike and he said no that is what he charges all of his customers! After adding tax to the price of the bike 4% would be an additional $67.20!!! Forget it!!! I could have easily have written him a check but decided to just pass on the whole deal. His overall attitude just gave me a bad feeling.

Now to the good news. This morning I started calling bike shops in other towns to see what was available. I found a shop 125 miles away that sells Santa Cruz bikes and frames. (Previously I didn't know there was one in our state.) I drove there this afternoon and test rode a bike he had already built up and was really impressed. He made me a really good deal on the frame and sold me some other components for half price! I was also a lot more impressed with the overall attitude of the LBS there. They were really great to deal with. They answered all of my questions and acted like they appreciated my business. While I was there I also observed how they treated their other customers. The difference was like night and day from the previous dealer.

Now I have to take my wife out to dinner before I can start building up my bike. I guess I'll be up late!!!

Thanks again!

Dude, seriously, good choice. If I had of had someone try to push that off on me (the charge from the credit card companies), I would've told him where to stick it. First off, that's illegal, and second, that guy sounds like a REAL ass...

I woulda' walked outta there with nothing in hand, and of kept my money also. Personally, I'd call the BBB on his ass about that credit card thing. Seriously dude.

Anyway, congrats on picking up the Santa Cruz. Take care, and ride hard!

-Matt

Krispy...

That idiot dealer you dealt with sounds like the LBS I worked at part-time for three years. They had five locations in our area but were highly in debt from living a lavish lifestyle and not paying thier bills (all the "big three" bicycle companies dropped them for this, lawsuits, etc.). They're gone now, they ran thier buisness right into the ground!

To make a long story short, the ******* dealer you dealt with was probably paranoid about paying bills and meeting payroll, expenses, etc. and generally keeping his head above water and was focusing on that rather than giving good customer service.

If you can, please watch this place and see what happens. I'd be interested to learn about thier fate!

Sidenote to above post...

At the LBS I that I previously mentioned, a major bike line they carried (the fat-tubed aluminum ones we all know and love) had a rash of cheap crappy bottom brackets on thier lower-end models. They were not even Shimanos but some Taiwan-made crap. This was in the late '90s. We mechanics suggested to replace them with Shimano UN52s or 72s under warranty and have the customers pay the difference. The owners didn't initially want to do this because of some jibber-jabber about warranty replacement having to be the exact same. Yeah right!

They finally relented and had us install better-quality replacements, but from what I heard through the grapevine they wanted to just keep replacing the cheap BBs with more cheapies so they can keep these customers coming back into the shops so they can buy accessories and that will somehow generate more revenue!

To make a long story short, the ******* dealer you dealt with was probably paranoid about paying bills and meeting payroll, expenses, etc. and generally keeping his head above water and was focusing on that rather than giving good customer service.

If you can, please watch this place and see what happens. I'd be interested to learn about their fate!


It's interesting that you mention that. The owner of the LBS where I bought my Litespeed used to work at and got all of his training at the above mentioned shop. Of all the LBS I've dealt with in town his has been the absolute worse service that I have received after the sale. There were two problems with the bike that were obvious warranty issues. I eventually got the bike repaired but it took Litespeed sending the parts to another LBS to do it because the owner of the LBS that I bought it from refused to do it.

I learned after the fact that right about the time I bought my Litespeed he filed for chapter 13 bankruptcy! I suspect that it's likely that he didn't want to call them for the warranty parts because he no longer had a good relationship with them.

I'm glad I didn't buy the bike from the above mentioned shop. After experiencing the owner's bad attitude I have to think that the Litespeed shop owner learned his bad customer skills from him!

I'm currently looking at an '03 Giant NRS 1 with Hayes disc brakes. The LBS has offered to sell it at a decent price. However, I'm suspicious that something isn't right with the brakes.

The first time I looked at the bike they had removed the disc brakes. They said that they had removed them because somebody wanted to buy them and the replacements were on order. A week later they had disc brakes back on the bike. They insisted that the brakes were an upgrade from what the original had. When I asked what model they were they said that they were the "original Hayes disc". When I looked at the Giant catalog there is no model number mentioned so I can't verify if they really are an upgrade.

When I test rode the bike the mechanic came outside and told me to take it easy on the front brake but would not give me a good reason why. I asked him if I bought the bike if I would have to take it easy on the trail too but he said no. I made several laps around the parking lot using the rear brake only and decided that what he said wasn't making sense so I made a gentle stop using the front brake at only about 5 mph. The brake stopped OK but immediately afterwords the pads started dragging (actually making a scraping sound) whereas they were not dragging before. After several more laps it was apparent the noise even though I was not braking was not going to stop.

That was a week ago. I went back to that bike store last night and they still had the bike. When I told the LBS owner that I liked everything about the bike but I had some concerns about the brakes he got very defensive. I told him that I was reading mixed reviews on the brakes and felt that I had good reason to ask questions before I made a purchase. He told me that I shouldn't believe what I read on the Internet!

I told him that I'd buy the bike if he put on something different such as the Shimano BR-M755 XT. I even offered to pay the difference in price if there was one. He got upset and walked off. As I was looking around the store at the other bike I overheard him arguing with one of his employees. The employee was actually siding with me and saying that if I offered to pay the difference that he should do it.

The owner came back and told me that NO he would not swap equipment because it would mean that he would have an extra set of disc brakes. He said that he already had two other sets of the same model and he didn't want to have a third that he couldn't sell! Of course this is contradictory to the original story they gave me of why the bike was missing the brakes when I first looked at it. If he already had two other sets in stock why would he need to take brakes off of a bike to sell to a customer?

He then offered to lower the price even more if I paid cash. The price has already gone from $2100.00 to $1550.00. I told them I'd have to think about it and left.

I have not had disc brakes on a bike before. I wasn't originally looking for a bike with disc brakes but would not be opposed to them if I knew that I wouldn't be working on them all the time.I know that I should expect a break in period of about a hundred miles or so before the brakes work properly but the bike is still on the showroom, should they be dragging already?

Because of the way the LBS owner has reacted to my questions my gut feeling tells me that something is wrong with the brakes and the dealer is trying to unload them on me. What do you all think?

I can't believe you've been in the shop a second time after being presented overwhelming evidence on your first visit that the bike shop personal are either: incompetent, dishonest, on drugs, graduates of the Attilla the Hun charm school, or all of the above.

I think I know the shop you are talking about. You ended up with a better bike anyway...