Non-violent anti-car offensive weapon... [Archive]

DanFromDetroit

11-21-03, 10:19 AM

This sounds like the solution to lots of problems. I wonder if I could rig one up with a microphone and disguise it to look like a lawn ornament. That way when folks roll down my residential street with stereos blasting away, BOOM-BOOM--WHACK loud enough to rattle body trim on parked cars and cause squirrels to fall out of the trees, I could just send a little EMP their way and fry the car and the stereo at the same time.

Of course you know that hardened, shielded electronics are the next step in the neighborhood arms race.....

Dan

randya

11-22-03, 01:01 AM

Could also be used on police vehicles attempting to harass Critical Mass cyclists....

jacob

11-22-03, 01:10 AM

I didn't quite get the point.
The post title said "offensive" in the header.
When something is "offensive," it can be something which is meant to be "obnoxious" or "rude."

Jacob

randya

11-22-03, 01:12 AM

OK, so maybe Dan got it wrong and it's really a defensive weapon...

TeleJohn

11-22-03, 09:13 AM

Could also be used on police vehicles attempting to harass Critical Mass cyclists....

It disables electrical systems, bikes do not have those.

Althogh the Pentagon is having a microwave crowd control weapon developed...

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2001/010302-npr.htm

Terrible.

TeleJohn

11-22-03, 09:17 AM

OK, so maybe Dan got it wrong and it's really a defensive weapon...

Sorry, in the angry driver case it would be defensive, in Dan's case it would be offensive. "Offensive" and "defensive" used in this context refer to strategic use.
My bad.

randya

11-22-03, 12:15 PM

It disables electrical systems, bikes do not have those.

I'm fine with bicycle-mounted police accompanying Critical Mass. It's when they bring out a bunch of moto-cops on Kawasakis and Harleys, and in squad cars and armored personel carriers that I take exception and would expect this device to be useful.

Lately in Portland, this has been the rule rather than the exception. One motorcycle cop for every three Mass riders, or thereabouts. A real misuse and waste of tax dollars, if you ask me. Critical Mass does not need this level of policing and the cops have more important things to do.

Da Tinker

11-23-03, 01:32 PM

A few different ideas are swirling around in my head, so forgive me if this seems disjointed.

1. I've got to get me one of these! If I can just shrink it down small enough to fit in a rack bag or bag bag, I can smoke arrogant soccer moms & bigoted rednecks who think I belong on the sidewalk.

2. A weapon is a weapon. Period. Offensive or defensive is all in how you deploy & use it. After all, ICBMs equiped with multi-megaton thermonuclear warheads, designed to slag down cities on the other side of the globe where refered to as 'denfensive weapons'.

3. In my younger, more militant days, I made a black box to trip traffic lights that would not pick up a bike. Now, I call the city traffic signals office & report a malfunctioing light. When challenged about the problem, I quote the law regarding bikes = vehicles to them.

4. Ally youself with motorcycle riders, since they have many of the same issues bike riders do.

jacob

11-23-03, 01:42 PM

>A weapon is a weapon
yes
>Period. Offensive or defensive is all in how you deploy & use it.
no

Do you wear a helmet? A helmet is a defensive weapon.

Jacob

Dchiefransom

11-23-03, 05:54 PM

Fantasies have a way of becoming harsh realities. That looks like it has a pretty big cone of radiation to it. Would it impact just one vehicle, or possibly cover an entire section of road? The reason I ask is because the first thing I thought about would be somebody frying the circuitry in my cardiac pacemaker if I was near the offending car. Even if law enforcement used this, I think they would accept me as "collateral damage". There are millions of implanted devices out there, as well as medical implements such as insulin pumps and blood sugar meters. I don't think the focus can be limited to one vehicle at this time, and even if it could, a child riding in the vehicle has done nothing wrong to warrant a life threatening response to what is usually just an annoyance.
I guess in today's society this would be classified as a violent weapon.

L J Horton

11-23-03, 06:12 PM

If this thing is ever made available you can be sure the cops will glomb onto it "to protect the public" and stop speeders and the device will put an end to high speed chases. Then, of course, they will outlaw it for private citizen use so the weapon can not be used against them.

Dchiefransom, has valid questions about Medical apparatus being disabled with severe consequences.

All in all, my opinion is that the device is a bad idea.

TeleJohn

11-23-03, 07:11 PM

... If I can just shrink it down small enough to fit in a rack bag or bag bag, I can smoke arrogant soccer moms & bigoted rednecks who think I belong on the sidewalk....

A man with a homeade device in a breifcase, was able to cause a slot machine to malfunction.

Da Tinker

11-23-03, 08:27 PM

Good point about pacemakers. However, the field intesity will fall off as a function of the square of the distance, double the distance, quarter the strength.

A version of this device which works by contact is already in limited use for police. Deploys similar to tire spikes.

LittleBigMan

11-24-03, 05:55 AM

I'm thinking, maybe this thing could work on dogs...

"Barf-barf-barf-barf-barf...barf? What was I barking about?"

miamijim

11-26-03, 03:03 PM

Is there something I can carry in my car to use on cyclists that dont obey traffic laws? Maybe something to make your...ooops, their chain fall off.......

Taking the law into your own hands....not a good idea.

randya

11-26-03, 10:44 PM

miamijim

11-27-03, 06:46 AM

I'm not advocating violence against cyclists. Its just a counterpoint to what I think is one of the reasons cyclists get a bad name.

Think about what you said....a motorist already has a 4,000 weapon and you fell compelled to challenge them? Talk about an invitation for death.

If a guy in car decides to be moron then a cyclist is a bigger moron if he/she decides to confront them. Camera phones can come in handy once in awhile.

Something I wouldnt disagree against is taking pictures of the offending cars and posting them on a website along with the 'infraction' and a short 'bio' about the owner.

Remember, what goes around comes around. I'm not, and never have advocated violence......this section of the forum advocates it everyday and I can counter anyones opinion.

Just because someone breaks a law it doesnt mean others are allowed to. I mean, I dont remember the local authorities handing out permission to break the law passes. Lets see, I get one to speed in my car (but I still stop at redlights) and you get one to run lights on your bike (but you not allowed to speed).

Dchiefransom

11-27-03, 11:14 AM

I'm thinking, maybe this thing could work on dogs...

"Barf-barf-barf-barf-barf...barf? What was I barking about?"

If all dogs were required to wear the collars that come with those electronic dog fences, we could get small controllers that would activate them.

Dchiefransom

11-27-03, 08:06 PM

Hmmm...you're advocating violence against cyclists on a bicyclist's web site...I see you haven't entered that 12-step recovery program for motorists yet...

Anyone driving a motor vehicle already has a one to two ton weapon of mass destruction at their disposal... and crash stats all over the USA indicate that they aren't shy about using their WMDs against bicyclists. And don't start about bicyclists that don't obey traffic laws; motorists speed all the time - a proven killer - yet this just happens to be 'socially acceptable behavior'? A simple device that would disable a motor vehicle without hurting anyone would indeed be a blessing and a god-send...much better that a bicycle-mounted RPG launcher...

As I pointed out above, you never know what you are going to destroy. Mom honks at a cyclist that's riding outside the bicycle lane, the cyclist uses this device, and her 8 year old daughter's insulin pump is now useless?
That's an interesting line of logic there. Since motor vehicles don't obey traffic laws, we bring that up to defend cyclists blatantly disregarding them also? Would you even have the guts to stop and wait for the police after you did use something like this, or would you keep going and be no better than the people driving the vehicles?

randya

11-27-03, 08:45 PM

Riding outside the bike lane is not a violation, and no, I would not use a device like this just because someone honked at me. Get a grip, dude!

Dchiefransom

11-27-03, 10:13 PM

Riding outside the bike lane is not a violation, and no, I would not use a device like this just because someone honked at me. Get a grip, dude!

Riding outside the bike lane in California is a violation, unless you can show you did it to avoid debris, or getting ready to change lanes for a turn. It's in section 2100 of the California Motor Vehicle Code. I did get a good grip, in 1994. That's when they put a cardiac pacemaker in me. I can play no contact sports now, which means even a friendly game of basketball. Anything that causes the leads to break contact, or interferes with my circuitry will kill me. From the tone of the posts here, I DO believe that people would use something like this for just a honk, but that tone includes other posts, not just yours.

Chris L

11-28-03, 01:37 AM

I'm not advocating violence against cyclists. Its just a counterpoint to what I think is one of the reasons cyclists get a bad name.

Where does all this "bad name" stuff come from anyway? And why do we care about it? If a driver can't tell the difference between a non-violent, law-abiding cyclist such as myself, and someone who adopts some of the tactics here, then I, for one, do not want their "respect". Whatever happened to simply behaving appropriately because it's the right thing to do? Irrespective of how others behave or how others perceive our behaviour.

Riding outside the bike lane in California is a violation, unless you can show you did it to avoid debris, or getting ready to change lanes for a turn.

I don't know about your part of the world, but there are some bikelanes around here that could be argued to constitute debris in and of itself. Not that this matters to many of the drivers who shout gibberish at me everyday.

However, I've discovered that ignoring them is a far more effective "weapon" than any electronic or disabling device in existence. The best part is, it's far more incidious (people never realise the damage stress is doing to them), and targets only the idiot who yelled at you and is expecting a response. Best of all, it's free of charge and weighs nothing!

randya

11-28-03, 11:56 AM

From the tone of the posts here, I DO believe that people would use something like this for just a honk, but that tone includes other posts, not just yours.

I view this post mostly as a fantasy vehicle for bicyclists who are simply fed up with the rude and dangerous behavior of motorists, rather than a likely reality. And if this device ever did come into common usage, I don't think that bicyclists would even need to take advantage of it -- I think the motorists would put all their cars out of commission using it on each other, while the cyclists just sat back and watched...

miamijim

11-29-03, 06:42 PM

randya

11-29-03, 07:09 PM

...where does the bad rep come from? Read the A1A post....
Mass Rides? The Advocacy part of this website is full of very hostile personalities that feel they are compelled to challenge cars. challenging cars=death

There's that cars first thang again...IMO there is simply a small minority of motorists that refuse to acknowledge that bicyclists are legitimate road users, and they like to whine a lot, and they also get to selfishly threaten bicyclists with bodily harm with their vehicles -- *Oh my, I'm so scared!*; it has nothing to do with Critical Mass -- Critical Mass is simply one of a variety of cyclists' responses to these stupid motorists -- and it has nothing to do with the fact that most cyclists are law abiding..these folks simply view bicycles as *toys* and impediments to their 'God given right' to motor without obstacles of any kind stopping them (could it be that their motor vehicle was falsely advertised? Where is the traffic and the gridlock in all those advertisements that sell you a car and tell you it's all right to speed? *Do not attempt this yourself -- filmed on closed track with test driver*). Big laugh on all of them when the oil runs out! Think about it -- how will history view the (brief) century of the internal combustion motor vehicle? Not very favorably, IMO!

Hostile personality, my ass; its the cars-first folks that have the really hostile personalities!

Dchiefransom

11-29-03, 07:27 PM

Chris, if a motorist cant tell the difference between a law abiding cyclist....I agree with you. I dont let one motorist distort my view of the ones that slow for me and show courtesy......

Chris L...where does the bad rep come from? Read the A1A post....
Mass Rides? The Advocacy part of this website is full of very hostile personalities that feel they are compelled to challenge cars. challenging cars=death

Dcheif, have seen the warninsg that come with cell phones? If you have a cardiac device your supposed to keep them at least 6? inches from the device.....crazy.

I don't use my cell phone much, and can only use it on my right side by doctor's orders(pacemaker is on the left). I have to pay attention to how I'm feeling whenever I get a haircut, also. Microwave ovens are shielded better now than the original ones. The strange thing is, I was told when I got mine that they even put these in babies now. People of all ages have them. Got mine at 40 years old.

Sorry, Randya. I've limited myself to decaf for the last two days. I DO seem to remember my fantasy involving a bicycle though.

Chris L

11-29-03, 08:09 PM

Chris L...where does the bad rep come from? Read the A1A post....
Mass Rides? The Advocacy part of this website is full of very hostile personalities that feel they are compelled to challenge cars. challenging cars=death

I agree to a point. However, I think it's important here to clarify the difference between being assertive and aggressive. While I have learned the futility of directing personal aggression at drivers and do not partake in it, I will have no hesitation in claiming a traffic lane if the situation warrants it (it often does on Queensland roads). I must say in over 100,000km of riding like this, I've yet to experience any serious injuries resulting from a collision with a car - in fact, I'd suggest that it's prevented quite a few.

As far as mass rides go, I'm beginning to wonder if it's really any worse than the mass traffic jams I see around here every school holidays. Personally I don't bother with them either simply because I think there are better and more effective ways to make a statement.

miamijim

12-03-03, 05:32 PM

(could it be that their motor vehicle was falsely advertised? Where is the traffic and the gridlock in all those advertisements that sell you a car and tell you it's all right to speed? *Do not attempt this yourself -- filmed on closed track with test driver*).

Well, as a matter of fact, the manufacturer of my car showcased my particular model in a commercial just like that!!

There were two guys seated in the car. They were stuck in gridlock. The mother of all traffic jams. One guy looks at the other and says, "this is so wrong." Four words and no movement of the car.

randya

12-03-03, 08:45 PM

Well, as a matter of fact, the manufacturer of my car showcased my particular model in a commercial just like that!!

There were two guys seated in the car. They were stuck in gridlock. The mother of all traffic jams. One guy looks at the other and says, "this is so wrong." Four words and no movement of the car.

And did you buy the car because of this ad? And the point of the ad was what? If only all these other cars would go away so I could speed?

Avalanche325

12-08-03, 06:10 PM

Non-violent anti-car offensive weapon...

I've already got one. It is mounted right between my index and ring finger. :)

Oh, and before anyone gets in a twist........I am just kidding. Some of you guys need to lighten up.

I will say this. Most advocacy groups and functions that I have seen, start with a good idea and then mutate into a radical group that does more harm than good to its original cause. Things rapidly go from "we need to show some support for this", to "anyone not supporting our cause must die!"