I just get a little skeptical when the latest bee pollen or coral calcium makes the rounds.
I feel best when one meal a day is a big raw salad with flaxseed oil.

I get a small amount of flax oil from one of the caps I take. But I think distilled fish oil is better for you.

When you get old, you will get the chance to try glucosamine. If I'm still breathing, I'll accept your retraction...

Don't blame you for being sceptical, I was a Vitamin E enthusiast for decades. Then
research showed up that suggested too much of a good thing was too much.

Oh well..

I buy fish oil capsules from a site called www.vitalchoice.com

check it out.

it's a placebo effect.

You're right. After two years of skeptical use on my part - including a several-month break and subsequent return - the relief I felt was all in my head. I assure you - I am not one to be drunk on hope and optimism for this length of time.

Do yourself a favor and read my other posts on the Training/Nutrition forum. I am quite analytical in my approach and I will not hesitate to remove anything that does not work.

Actually...I'm right. It DOES help me. And your comment, though pithy, won't make my knees feel better. Glucosamine does.

"Although anecdotal data supports the use of glucosamine (ask any patient who uses it), careful analysis of trial data does not support its use"

my analysis is that it is like any other supplement sold that makes people rich and sells people on the fact that they feel better.

coral calcium, anyone?

"...careful analysis of trial data..."

There are other trials with other outcomes.

I'm not going to clog the servers with studies which favor the use of glucosamine. I will say that for any study with one result, you can find another study with an opposite result - not all of which are sponsored by drug companies.



my analysis is that it is like any other supplement sold that makes people rich and sells people on the fact that they feel better.



I buy fish oil capsules from a site called www.vitalchoice.com (http://www.vitalchoice.com)

check it out.

You blast glucosamine yet concede to fish oil.

What will you do if some troll decides to argue fish oil is little more than a placebo that's making someone else wealthy?

Don't answer that; it's a rhetorical question and a not-so-subtle reminder that quoting some study and reaching a subjective conclusion is a knife that cuts both ways.

When trying something new that has the potential to improve the quality of my life or increase my performance, I will read the pros and cons, apply a healthy dose of skepticism, and defer to empirical knowledge.

Now - and this is where you should pay attention - I will also have the sensibility to know that even if something does not work for me, it does not give me license to project my results to every segment of the population. Certain supplements, like it or not, have responders and non-responders. Do a search on the Training/Nutrition forum and you will find plenty of favorable reviews for glucosamine. I very much doubt all of the reviewers are under some mass-placebo hysteria.

Hell i could eat cheese fries and drink beer all day and ride 120 miles at 7mph. The fact is, if you are a fit athlete it is going to be really hard and EXSPENSIVE to get everything you need from "real" food. Nobody is saying to only eat whey and pop pills, yes a balanced diet is needed but isnt the end all.

If you're referring to me, you obviously haven't read my website. :D

If you're referring to me, you obviously haven't read my website. :D

I can't speak for the member you are addressing.

I, for one, have and respect your work. There are topics we don't see eye-to-eye on. But that's the point of open dialogue.

I, for one, have and respect your work. There are topics we don't see eye-to-eye on. But that's the point of open dialogue.

Thanks. :)

Now I will say that although I don't usually take supplement pills because most literally make me sick to my stomach (like throwing up sick) ... and because I have serious doubts that they are of any or much benefit ........ I will take electrolyte pills (which seem to sit all right) on blistering hot rides.

It's hard to eat enough beef jerky and potato chips to keep the sodium level up for a hot 400 km, 600 km, or 1200 km ride. And I have suffered from hyponatremia on a 600K, which ended the 600K at about 350 kms and almost hospitalized me. That was enough motivation to use the electrolyte pills. But I definitely don't use them every day ... just a handful of rides a year.

But aside from that, I really wonder what people mean when they say that their particular "magic beans" work. How do they work? What is happening to make people think that something beneficial is happening?

Just gonna pitch in my two cents...

I get occassional knee pain if I switch up my seat height for some reason and forget where I had it before. In the temporary time it takes to adjust things back to normal, glucosamine makes a world of difference - BUT, it depends on the brand (and I believe the type of glucosamine as well). I've had best luck with glucosamine + MSM combo.

I agree with Life is Suffering. I could find more than a handful of studies on PubMed that say cigarettes are good for your health. It's a whole lot more complicated than just reading study X and study Y and jumping to some quick conclusion. That's not even how science works, it's constant change. Point is, I'd rather not wait until 1,000 large, double-blind studies have been done on glucosamine to find out if it's good - I'd rather just find out for myself through good old fashioned self empiricism.

You blast glucosamine yet concede to fish oil.

What will you do if some troll decides to argue fish oil is little more than a placebo that's making someone else wealthy?
.

I sure won't get as upset as you and others. fish oil is more of a food than a drug really.
I'm not making any health claims about fish oil.
Everyone says there are reputable studies that support glucosamine but they don't post them.

I sure won't get as upset as you and others. fish oil is more of a food than a drug really.
I'm not making any health claims about fish oil.
Everyone says there are reputable studies that support glucosamine but they don't post them.

It's not that hard to find research and health care professional organizations that find glucosamine useful...here's a couple from Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucosamine).

"a 6-month double-blind, multicenter trial has been recently performed to assess the efficacy of glucosamine sulfate 1500 mg once daily compared to placebo and acetaminophen in patients with osteoarthritis of the knee (GUIDE study). The results showed that glucosamine sulfate improved the Lequesne algofunctional index significantly compared to placebo and the positive control. Secondary analyses, including the OARSI responder indices, were also significantly favorable for glucosamine sulfate.[46]"

"currently OARSI (OsteoArthritis Research Society International) is recommending glucosamine as the second most effective treatment for moderate cases of osteoarthritis. Likewise, recent European League Against Rheumatism practice guidelines for knee osteoarthritis grants to glucosamine sulfate the highest level of evidence, 1A, and strength of the recommendation, A".


Whether or not it works appears to be an open question in the scientific community, and research is ongoing (your assertions that it is merely a placebo effect notwithstanding).

"...careful analysis of trial data..."

There are other trials with other outcomes.



He has not even read the study and has no clue of what it actually says. If he did he would not be so quick to parrot someone else's response to it. There is the all too simplistic view is that it works or does not work without looking at the context. Some studies say it does not work and some say it does. What context was the study done? What are all the other variables (in)dependant? How generalizable are the results to the situation that it is being used in?

Take a look at the entire study and see who it worked for and under what situation then decide for yourself. Get the objective view, when you surf the net for info like this all you will get is a subjective response based on one's biases, especially when they are rehashing a study to make it fit their biases, or the study may not even fit the context that is being referred to.

I'm a 25 year old male, racing Cat3's and take my "real" food very seriously.

That said, my supplementation is as follows (this is for periods of very intense training, so my diet isnt always this supplement rich):

whey protein: nearly a scoop upon waking to halt catabolism. A bit added to my carb drink for training rides. A scoop post workout before my pasta binge!

maltodexterin powder: super cheap and effective base for pre/during/post workout drinks.

Hammer HEED: I use this in place of the malto. powder on race days. It costs more, but I've tricked myself into thinking it's better than Malto alone, so it stays a staple for race day.

Hammer gel: supplements HEED/protein mix for longer races.

Endurolytes: 1-4 per hour depending on heat/exertion/etc.

BCAA capsules: just started taking these and so far, so good. 3 grams post workout, 2 g 30 minutes pre workout and 2 g before bed is what I'm working up to.

Fish oil: joint health, EFA, etc.

Apple cider vinegar capsules: hopefully helping with some crappy circulation, but no noticed help as of yet.

Coffee!!!: huge help before big workouts and races, whether actual or perceived.

-L

I'm a 25 year old male, racing Cat3's and take my "real" food very seriously.

That said, my supplementation is as follows (this is for periods of very intense training, so my diet isnt always this supplement rich):

whey protein: nearly a scoop upon waking to halt catabolism. A bit added to my carb drink for training rides. A scoop post workout before my pasta binge!

maltodexterin powder: super cheap and effective base for pre/during/post workout drinks.

-L

I've recently started experimenting with maltodextrin. It seems like a really versatile way to get calories on board when you're working out, and has some distinct benefits over sucrose, dextrose, fructose, etc.

But, there are different formulations of it, and I find that many of the commonly available ones don't mix well with water - they tend to sink to the bottom of a bottle and clump up, requiring a lot of shaking to get the malto into solution.

What's your source for maltodextrin? And, how easy is it to mix?

Thanks.

I sure won't get as upset as you and others. fish oil is more of a food than a drug really.

The manner in which you've responded to some of the members shows you're quite upset and defensive.

And like I said, someone out there surely believes that, by refining and packaging fish oil into little capsules, it thereby becomes a supplement. Be grateful this someone isn't as abrasive as you.



I'm not making any health claims about fish oil.

Yet, you're still more than willing to share that you purchase them, as well as the website where you make your purchase. Don't get your shorts in a bunch - I'm not accusing you of pimping any particular online retailer; but I will have fun at your hypocrisy.




Everyone says there are reputable studies that support glucosamine but they don't post them.

http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/162/18/2113

"...Conclusion Long-term treatment with glucosamine sulfate ******ed the progression of knee osteoarthritis, possibly determining disease modification."

http://www.doctoroffitness.com/articles/supplements/glucosamine.shtml

"...There is clear evidence that glucosamine alone, glucosamine in combination with chondroitin sulfate, and chondroitin sulfate alone provide symptomatic relief of osteoarthritis. Some evidence also exists showing that chondroitin sulfate and glucosamine slow the progression of osteoarthritis and improve joint function. Glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate are safe, effective supplements. Both are deemed legal by all of the governing bodies in sports. If you are going to try both of these supplements you need to take them for at least three months to truly determine if they are making a difference for you. You should take a supplement that contains 1500 mg glucosamine and 1200 mg chondroitin sulfate."

The above are just two that a few minutes on google produced.

By the way, if you're just dumb enough to respond with links to studies which support your agenda, you'll have only validated my earlier posts.

As I stated before - for any one study with a 'pro' result, there's another with a 'con' result. As I stated before, I'll defer to how I feel after two years of use and NOT your myopic thoughts. Martial arts as a junior, rockclimbing throughout college, weights, mtb, and now road have put quite a wear and tear on my joints. Trust me, the relief I feel is not imagined.

Your opinions haven't changed anyone's minds. At least my philosophy of applying skeptical empiricism allows people to decide for themselves.

You've been pawned. It took me the time to enjoy a cup of coffee to do so.

And should you decide to respond with some feeble logic, know this - by keeping this thread active, you're only inviting more people to see that you've stuck your foot in your mouth.

If you're curious as to what impact your comments made, start a new thread/poll and see just how many agree with you. That, I promise, will snap you back into reality.

I've recently started experimenting with maltodextrin. It seems like a really versatile way to get calories on board when you're working out, and has some distinct benefits over sucrose, dextrose, fructose, etc.

But, there are different formulations of it, and I find that many of the commonly available ones don't mix well with water - they tend to sink to the bottom of a bottle and clump up, requiring a lot of shaking to get the malto into solution.

What's your source for maltodextrin? And, how easy is it to mix?

Thanks.Sig lines are interesting. Some people accept reality and other people think they make their own.

I get my maltodextrin in 50# bags from my local homebrew supply house. I mix it 7:1 by weight with chocolate flavored soy protein. This mixes quite well in a water bottle. I find a pint of dry powder lasts about 3 hours, so it's probably about 750 cal. It is a little tricky to mix. For best results, dump the powder into a dry bottle. Add water to fill and shake and pound until all the powder is distributed. Then add more water. Put in fridge overnight. For longer rides, bring more powder. Try to add it before the bottle is completely empty and accept the fact that it's going to be a little lumpy for a few minutes.

The last time I bought it, a few months ago, the price had doubled due to the ethanol nonsense (it's a corn product). It used to be .50/lb in bulk.

Coffee / espresso is my favorite supplement ever!!! Give me a triple shot and I have no choice but to ride my bike extremely fast and hard :D

But I drink green tea regularly and coffee on occassion.

I've recently started experimenting with maltodextrin. It seems like a really versatile way to get calories on board when you're working out, and has some distinct benefits over sucrose, dextrose, fructose, etc.

But, there are different formulations of it, and I find that many of the commonly available ones don't mix well with water - they tend to sink to the bottom of a bottle and clump up, requiring a lot of shaking to get the malto into solution.

What's your source for maltodextrin? And, how easy is it to mix?

Thanks.

I use a product called Carbo Gain. Here's a link to where i purchase it: http://www.bodybuilding.com/store/now/carbo.html

i mix 2-3 scoops in a 24 oz. bottle with my protein and add about 12 oz. of water. shake it up with vigor and add enough water to fill the bottle. this works great, no clumping or grittyness.

-L

I've recently started experimenting with maltodextrin. It seems like a really versatile way to get calories on board when you're working out, and has some distinct benefits over sucrose, dextrose, fructose, etc.

But, there are different formulations of it, and I find that many of the commonly available ones don't mix well with water - they tend to sink to the bottom of a bottle and clump up, requiring a lot of shaking to get the malto into solution.

What's your source for maltodextrin? And, how easy is it to mix?

Thanks.

First, maltodextrin isn't a supplement ... it's a sugar, a complex sugar, and therefore it's a "real food". I use products with maltodextrin on my long rides and have found that it is much, much better than the simple sugars. It provides me with energy longer than simple sugars, and it doesn't give me mouth sores like simple sugars (such as what is in Gatorade) do. The lack of mouth sores is mainly why I've switched to it.

Second, you can get it at your local wine making place ... that's where I get mine. :)

Can anyone comment on the use of L-Glutamine? My understanding is that it's one of the BCAA's that is useful in muscle repair and/or rebuilding...is that correct? Would the dosage of 5g 2-3x per day, go for both men and women? Or would the dosages be different, and if so...what? I'm thinking of adding a scoop of glutamine powder to my post-workout protein shake and then also taking a scoop in water right before bed. Feedback please! Thanks!

Can anyone comment on the use of L-Glutamine? My understanding is that it's one of the BCAA's that is useful in muscle repair and/or rebuilding...is that correct? Would the dosage of 5g 2-3x per day, go for both men and women? Or would the dosages be different, and if so...what? I'm thinking of adding a scoop of glutamine powder to my post-workout protein shake and then also taking a scoop in water right before bed. Feedback please! Thanks!

L-Glutamine Rocks! And, it works!

Both my girlfriend (a national class runner) and I take it on a near daily basis. We both find that it helps a LOT with muscle recovery after exercise - our muscles don't feel as sore the next day, or as "heavy", when we use it after our workouts.

We both typically use 5-10 grams in a recovery drink right after working out. And, if we've worked out pretty hard, we'll take another 5-10 grams in a glass of water before going to bed.

L-Glutamine Rocks! And, it works!

Both my girlfriend (a national class runner) and I take it on a near daily basis. We both find that it helps a LOT with muscle recovery after exercise - our muscles don't feel as sore the next day, or as "heavy", when we use it after our workouts.

We both typically use 5-10 grams in a recovery drink right after working out. And, if we've worked out pretty hard, we'll take another 5-10 grams in a glass of water before going to bed.

Thanks! That answers my question. Is there a particular brand you prefer? Or will any brand do? Do you use a flavored or unflavored version?

Can anyone comment on the use of L-Glutamine? My understanding is that it's one of the BCAA's that is useful in muscle repair and/or rebuilding...is that correct? Would the dosage of 5g 2-3x per day, go for both men and women? Or would the dosages be different, and if so...what? I'm thinking of adding a scoop of glutamine powder to my post-workout protein shake and then also taking a scoop in water right before bed. Feedback please! Thanks!

Use the smallest amount you can get away with using.

The protein in wheat is called gluten. It has glutamine and methionine. You know
about glutamine, methionine is a sulfur containing amino acid that helps in healing. Adding methionine typically improves the protein quality of a meal.

You can sneak a little in here and there. I add an ounce to meatloaf, and stir
a little in to some dinners, soups, panckaes, whatever. If I'm sore I often stir a tblsp in. . You can find it in the baking section.
If a health food store has it in bulk; you can get it cheap.

But aside from that, I really wonder what people mean when they say that their particular "magic beans" work. How do they work? What is happening to make people think that something beneficial is happening?


What is happening? Well here is an idea of "what" happens. What happens is (personally for me) i see an increase in MASS (muscle size, volume) and STRENGTH when taking supplements (whey protein and creatine, both mono and ethlester). Its called, i gain MORE when taking supps, than when just eating "real" food. You try and eat 2grams of protein per pound of body weight as a 250lb football player.

On your question of "how do they work"? I am sure you know what BCAA's are (which is what protein powders consist of). And of course you know that creatine is present in the body already and its role with ATP (and what that does). If you know all that, you should know how it works.

Thanks! That answers my question. Is there a particular brand you prefer? Or will any brand do? Do you use a flavored or unflavored version?

We buy unflavored, from Wal-Mart.

AFAIK, they're all basically the same...though you wouldn't know it to see some of the claims and prices from places like GNC. :rolleyes:

First, maltodextrin isn't a supplement ... it's a sugar, a complex sugar, and therefore it's a "real food". I use products with maltodextrin on my long rides and have found that it is much, much better than the simple sugars. It provides me with energy longer than simple sugars, and it doesn't give me mouth sores like simple sugars (such as what is in Gatorade) do. The lack of mouth sores is mainly why I've switched to it.

Second, you can get it at your local wine making place ... that's where I get mine. :)

First let me explain a few things.

The Glycemic Index or "GI" of a food is how fast a carb can be absorbed into your body. Higher GI means quicker absorption in the body. Sugars have a high GI. If you eat high GI carbs your blood sugar rises quickly and in response your insulin levels rise also. The insulin levels expedite the sugar into muscle and adipose (fat) tissue.

Maltodextrin is technically a complex carb but it has a higher GI than most sugars. Maltodextrin is several dextrose molecules stuck together with very weak hydrogen bonds. Dextrose is a simple sugar with a GI of 100. Maltodextrin although a "complex" carb actually has a GI of 137. One thing most people dont know is white rice has a GI higher than most sugars. White rice is perfect PWO but not before. Brown rice is better before.

If you are taking maltodextrin and finding it helps you on long rides more than sugar then it is placebo. Maltodextrin will spike your blood sugar and insulin only to have both levels fall off quickly right afterwards.

I personally take dextrose PWO but not before or during. If you take only a small amount it wont cause a sugar rush and crash but during a ride i eat "real food".

As far and real food and randonneuring i can share my personal experience. I have toured the French Alps with 70 pounds of gear in 95 degree heat while literally drinking wine from a water bottle. My meals consisted of extremely fatty Camembert cheese and French pastries. It was a lot of fun and i would recommend it to anything other than those training for racing.

Right now i am not randonneuring, just racing. Because of this I'm back on supplements, gels, powders, pills, and carefully weighed food. If you are not training to race please don't chime in about how ridiculous supplements are. Real(ly fatty) food has it's place but its not here.

First let me explain a few things.

The Glycemic Index or "GI" of a food is how fast a carb can be absorbed into your body. Higher GI means quicker absorption in the body. Sugars have a high GI. If you eat high GI carbs your blood sugar rises quickly and in response your insulin levels rise also. The insulin levels expedite the sugar into muscle and adipose (fat) tissue.

Maltodextrin is technically a complex carb but it has a higher GI than most sugars. Maltodextrin is several dextrose molecules stuck together with very weak hydrogen bonds. Dextrose is a simple sugar with a GI of 100. Maltodextrin although a "complex" carb actually has a GI of 137. One thing most people dont know is white rice has a GI higher than most sugars. White rice is perfect PWO but not before. Brown rice is better before.

If you are taking maltodextrin and finding it helps you on long rides more than sugar then it is placebo. Maltodextrin will spike your blood sugar and insulin only to have both levels fall off quickly right afterwards.

I personally take dextrose PWO but not before or during. If you take only a small amount it wont cause a sugar rush and crash but during a ride i eat "real food".

As far and real food and randonneuring i can share my personal experience. I have toured the French Alps with 70 pounds of gear in 95 degree heat while literally drinking wine from a water bottle. My meals consisted of extremely fatty Camembert cheese and French pastries. It was a lot of fun and i would recommend it to anything other than those training for racing.

Right now i am not randonneuring, just racing. Because of this I'm back on supplements, gels, powders, pills, and carefully weighed food. If you are not training to race please don't chime in about how ridiculous supplements are. Real(ly fatty) food has it's place but its not here.You are demonstrating the problems with using studies and chemical analysis to predict real-world performance.

Machka has it right, but perhaps not for the reasons she thinks. I also have found that malto works better while riding than products containing "simple sugars." The reason is exactly that malto has a high glycemic index, but it also has other benefits. From http://www.themax.com.hk/english/knowledge_article.asp?id=19
(this information is also available from other sources)
"Molecules that contain many sugar units chained together are called polysaccharides. One of these, maltodextrin, allows a concentration of 18-24%, and very efficient passage from the digestive tract to the liver, because its osmolality matches that of the digestive system."and later:
"After exercise begins, however, sympathetic nervous system hormones inhibit GI impact on insulin release. Unless your caloric intake exceeds the maximum that the liver can return to the body in the form of glycogen (about 280 calories per hour), glycemic index is not a major factor in choosing energy sources. During exercise, it's a nutritional error to value GI above saccharide profile."

The primary issue for long distance athletes is the ability to move that 250-300 cal./hr across the stomach and intestinal linings. Malto has a demonstrated superior ability to do that. "Insulin spike" is not at all an issue for the reason stated, and because we ingest malto constantly, trying to keep our blood sugar up and moving across the cell walls.

Plus, it doesn't "taste sweet" because it's not a simple sugar in the mouth, so it doesn't cause mouth sores or "tired mouth" as quickly as sweet substances.

I use nano vapor, its similer to NO explode. i use it right before my workouts, then i take in just gatorade during my ride, then for a post-workout i take ON gold standard whey and a postworkout shake, im thinkin of switching to anabolic halo, but not sure yet due to how freakin expensive it is. But i get sore on the bike just cause im new to it so pre and post workout shakes help me allot. but make sure to have a good diet , kuz no amount of suppliments will replace a good diet.

Hammer Nutrition for me. HEED and Gels during rides (expresso gel the best!). Multi-vitamin daily.

1. Whey isolates (ON tastes and dissolves best, IMO).
2. Creatine- I cycle this in 6-8 week blocks, with 2-4 weeks off between each cycle.
3. Good food, as often as possible, although I've been known to indulge in a few guilty pleasures here and there.

1. Whey isolates (ON tastes and dissolves best, IMO).
2. Creatine- I cycle this in 6-8 week blocks, with 2-4 weeks off between each cycle.
3. Good food, as often as possible, although I've been known to indulge in a few guilty pleasures here and there.

i indulge all the time, most sweets than fat tho, im slowly goin toward a healthier diet, its hard tho kuz my appearance isnt bad im actually very lean and can eat wateva i want technically and not get fat/flabby, but i want to eat healthier and stop messing up my body int eh long run heh, i dont want to end up a old coach potato telling my children about how nice of a body i use to have haha. but i dont think i will ever let go of certein sweets tho

Did not mean for this to turn into argument of “ do supplements really work” or “ a waste of money” ect.. Yes, I eat 6 meals a day, lost of fish, chicken and lean meat with ample servings of fresh veggies and clean carbs. I agree “supplements are not a substitute” for good healthy eating. But that’s the concept of “Supplements” I use them to supplement my diet for workouts and rides.

I have found using certain supplements work for me…..and I know they work for others… bottom line. If you see no benefit that’s cool.

That’s why I posted the list, because some of the ones I use came from recommendations. I find that some brands work for me better than others. Is it mental….. I don’t know …don’t really care, they do make a difference for me. I just thought I would see what other people who used supplements were using, I like to switch around from time to time. I moved to No-Xplode from a NOS drink I was using before because I saw several people who I ride with using it, and I liked it better. Not every time I try something new does it work better or at all.

Some are junk, most are overpriced, but I see real benefit in some and thought I would share. Thanks to all of you who have posted what you find that have worked for you. I have picked up some good ideas and I look forward to more posts.

Creatine: Many bikers using? Back in my weight lifting days I swore by it! Do you think it would lead to too much bulk or add needed leg strength? My main concentration is climbing so looking for any help. Thx!

Creatine: Many bikers using? Back in my weight lifting days I swore by it! Do you think it would lead to too much bulk or add needed leg strength? My main concentration is climbing so looking for any help. Thx!

Hill repeats and loosing flab in the mid section (if you have any).

Um:

I was amazed how quickly the mid section disappeared when I started riding a couple months ago. I've dropped 10 lbs already down to 175. Goal weight 170 before Snowbird hill climb race in August.

http://www.saltlakecycling.com/showride.php?rideID=1002

When you say hill repeats: Does that mean shorter hills x multiple times? I've primarily been doing long gruelers though some do have flat or rolling sections but ultimately always climbing. Basically mix up the week with 3-4 days of tough with other days relatively easy. (Salt Lake area really doesn't have much in the way of flat, at least in my area of town) Mileage per ride varies from 15 to 50 miles.

Thx for ideas/suggestions!

Steady climbs are good, but try incorporating shorter higher intensity repeats. So for example 3-4 5-7 min high intensity z3-4, then some longer 12-15m z2 ones. I think someone asked similar question recently, try searching. There are also some good books out there like Cyclists Bible.

Good Luck.


Um:

I was amazed how quickly the mid section disappeared when I started riding a couple months ago. I've dropped 10 lbs already down to 175. Goal weight 170 before Snowbird hill climb race in August.

http://www.saltlakecycling.com/showride.php?rideID=1002

When you say hill repeats: Does that mean shorter hills x multiple times? I've primarily been doing long gruelers though some do have flat or rolling sections but ultimately always climbing. Basically mix up the week with 3-4 days of tough with other days relatively easy. (Salt Lake area really doesn't have much in the way of flat, at least in my area of town) Mileage per ride varies from 15 to 50 miles.

Thx for ideas/suggestions!

i'm a long-distance runner primarily, I've just recently got into biking, so all this talk about creatine is suprising. doesn't it cause a lot of weight gain? i guess my main focus is still running, so i don't want to take anything that might ruin that.

creatine does cause weight gain in the way of muscle. but sometimes more muscle isnt the best thing, tweaking the muscle you already have sometimes works better.

i'm a long-distance runner primarily, I've just recently got into biking, so all this talk about creatine is suprising. doesn't it cause a lot of weight gain? i guess my main focus is still running, so i don't want to take anything that might ruin that.


Depends on which creatine you supplement. Mono? Yes. Ester? No.

I don't take any supplements what so ever. I just watch what I eat. Supplements, in my opinion, were developed for people who want results fast. You get results by training and riding more and more. Training your body to perform a certain task is all about working on training rather than taking some supplements. The only pills I take are vitamins. And even then I wonder if they are worth it.

I like real food and drinks. My body takes care of the rest.

I just got L-Carnitine in pill form from a nutrition store (not GNC). I have never tried it.

The closest I have come to supplements is taking Centrums Performance vitamins.

BTW, has anybody taken L-Carnitine? Have you seen results from it?

All I know is that it helps in the transport of fats and that's it. I was going to add CLO with my purchase of L-Carnitine but I just wanted to try the first supplement and see how it works for me.

My goal for me is to lose some weight but yet retain my muscle mass. Got any ideas?

I guess food and riding a lot will do. I tend to do base miles to burn the fat but when I over do it, I don't have the speed to keep up with the Cat 3's or 2's. I just need to do more intervals and hill repeats.