I was remembering that after the 9/11 attacks the president told us that the way to fight terrorists was to go max out our credit cards buying useless stuff made in China. Remember what a paranoid time it was with secret military tribunals and loss of rights? I remember feeling like I was helping the terrorists by not going into debt and not driving a hummer with an American flag on it. But now with the credit crisis what if another terrorist attack occurs? If going shopping is the best way to fight terrorists who is left to get into debt anymore? Just the un-American people who didn't go into debt the first time around. We frugal car free and debt free folks might be the nations last best hope for fighting terrorism because we're the only ones left who can go out and buy a bunch of useless crap at the malls. We're like stealth patriots. I'm imagining President McCain calling on the car-free debt-free to go shopping for a new car because if we don't "the terrorists win".

http://www.populistamerica.com/the_death_of_american_debate?rta

snippet:
""The purpose of Newspeak," wrote George Orwell in 1984, "was not only to provide a medium of expression for the world-view... but to make all other modes of thought impossible." And truer words can hardly be applied to modern America's state of politics. Issues and ideas are instantly polarized into Right and Left camps with no room or stomach for those who don't fit the neat boxes ascribed. Cards are virtually handed out for easy access to stilted political brotherhoods - so-called liberals and conservatives alike. And the public is tagged, herded, penned in, and told which way to march to the slaughterhouse for free thinking and independent ideas."

Whenever some whackjob goes off about cyclists, I respond with an equally whacky retort (maybe not so whacky): "Patriots pedal, traitors drive" or "Every time you fill up that gas tank, al-Qaida smiles". People tend to not know what to say to me at that point, and so they crawl away. :)

I was remembering that after the 9/11 attacks the president told us that the way to fight terrorists was to go max out our credit cards buying useless stuff made in China. Remember what a paranoid time it was with secret military tribunals and loss of rights? I remember feeling like I was helping the terrorists by not going into debt and not driving a hummer with an American flag on it. But now with the credit crisis what if another terrorist attack occurs? If going shopping is the best way to fight terrorists who is left to get into debt anymore? Just the un-American people who didn't go into debt the first time around. We frugal car free and debt free folks might be the nations last best hope for fighting terrorism because we're the only ones left who can go out and buy a bunch of useless crap at the malls. We're like stealth patriots. I'm imagining President McCain calling on the car-free debt-free to go shopping for a new car because if we don't "the terrorists win".

At this point, I think even right-leaning people can agree: if GWB suggests it, do the opposite, and the republic will be better for it. His administration is the best thing that ever happened to Al Queada. (sp)

As for credit cards, if you can afford to pay off your balance every month, go ahead, use them. (They increase your credit score, only God knows how that came to be.) A better idea, though, is this: aside from your house and a college education, if you have to go into debt to buy something, you probably shouldn't buy it. We owe the Chinese a f***load of money right now because their people understand this simple fact, and many of us don't.

From a practical standpoint, the most patriotic action is that which reduces our dependence on countries that are apathetic (at best) to our long term survival.

Afterall, nearly half of our trade deficit is caused by Texasanistan Tea.

I'm imagining President McCain calling on the car-free debt-free to go shopping for a new car because if we don't "the terrorists win".

I think the opposite will happen. President McCain will call for the rounding up of the car-free debt-free non shoppers because by not participating in the economy, were're just as bad as the terrorist!

The most subversive things I have done since this in(s)ane war began are to be car-free and eliminate my debts. I just wish more people in the pro-peace movement could give up their cars and trucks. But I'm the only one who shows up for protests by riding their bike.

aside from your house and a college education, if you have to go into debt to buy something, you probably shouldn't buy it.


I'm not 100% sure that's correct anymore. With the cost of tuition, and the average wages being made by someone with a general degree it's becoming less and less true. To be clear, I'm not referring to the people who are smart enough to graduate with a specialty.

The average Joe coming out feeling lucky to get the job making 30K... well, they would have been much better off going to a trade school for a year or two, pocketing the rest and likely starting with a higher salary.

If/when the economy goes to crap they'll at least have a skill to rely on. The majority of the keyboard operators (whatever their real job title is) will be SOL.

[edit] and I won't even get started on my rant about home ownership...

Remember what a paranoid time it was with secret military tribunals and loss of rights?

It's actually tough to forget things that are still going on. . .

The average Joe coming out feeling lucky to get the job making 30K... well, they would have been much better off going to a trade school for a year or two, pocketing the rest and likely starting with a higher salary.

So true. The mad rush to get kids to just go to university for whatever reason and get whatever degree they can get through is so impulsive and misguided, imho. The majority of people would be better off hitting up community college or private trade school for a step by step approach to educating oneself and creating an earn while you learn opportunity with little to no debt.

So true. The mad rush to get kids to just go to university for whatever reason and get whatever degree they can get through is so impulsive and misguided, imho. The majority of people would be better off hitting up community college or private trade school for a step by step approach to educating oneself and creating an earn while you learn opportunity with little to no debt.

A large part of this is brought on by the fallacy that you HAVE to have a college education to be "successful"...define successful...If it is owning an over sized crap built house 5 miles from everywhere with a large mortgage, 3 car garage full of unpaid for vehicles, etc etc...No Thanks! When I was in high school, if you weren't going to college the guidance counselors basically didn't have the time for you. Unfortunately in this country good apprenticeship programs are few and far between.

Aaron:)

It's actually tough to forget things that are still going on. . .

It seems like many people have.

When I was in high school, if you weren't going to college the guidance counselors basically didn't have the time for you. Unfortunately in this country good apprenticeship programs are few and far between.

Aaron:)

The schools are judged by the percentage of kids who go on to college so there is huge pressure. I used to volunteer with a group that tried to steer "at risk" youth into the trades. When the group tried to get cooperation from the DC schools they were told to back off because talking to kids about learning a trade is demeaning- it implies they're too stupid for college. So the kids don't go to college and don't learn a trade either- unless they go through the criminal justice system. Well at least they haven't been disrespected by being offered a path to a high paying job. Thats the most important thing isn't it?

The schools are judged by the percentage of kids who go on to college so there is huge pressure. I used to volunteer with a group that tried to steer "at risk" youth into the trades. When the group tried to get cooperation from the DC schools they were told to back off because talking to kids about learning a trade is demeaning- it implies they're too stupid for college. So the kids don't go to college and don't learn a trade either- unless they go through the criminal justice system. Well at least they haven't been disrespected by being offered a path to a high paying job. Thats the most important thing isn't it?

Well they did LEARN a trade...just not a particularly sociably acceptable one:rolleyes:

Too many companies today are hung up on a person having a college degree. I found this out when the company I was working for went bankrupt. I applied for similar positions at similar companies, but because I didn't have that little piece of paper... Fortunately the company I work for now could care less. They hire and pay you based on your experience as well as your results with them. I have a COO that never graduated from college, but has the street smarts and has taken the time to learn the things he needed to get the job done. He started with this company 44 years ago as an apprentice and is now one of the majority owners, and isn't the first one and I am sure will not be the last. IMHO this country is too hung up on appearances and less on substance, one of the key things leading to our economic downfall.

Aaron:)

Also now that the economic stimulis checks are almost here we have ads on radio/tv telling us all the great things we go go buy/finance with them.

Thankfully I'm not that dependent that the money will be a major windfall - and mine will go straight to etrade.

Also now that the economic stimulis checks are almost here we have ads on radio/tv telling us all the great things we go go buy/finance with them.

Thankfully I'm not that dependent that the money will be a major windfall - and mine will go straight to etrade.

My $600 is going straight on a (Chinese) bicycle. If I can't support our economy, at least I'll support a more sustainable lifestyle.

Eventually the world is going to have to switch over to an economy that's based on sustainability and stability rather than one based on growth.

Eventually the world is going to have to switch over to an economy that's based on sustainability and stability rather than one based on growth.

The whole systems got to crash and burn before that could happen. Unless you expect the bankers to just willingly hand back the keys to the planet...

The whole systems got to crash and burn before that could happen. Unless you expect the bankers to just willingly hand back the keys to the planet...

I don't expect a peaceful transition, although I hope it's largely nonviolent.