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Just wondering what other Big Dummies are using for a kickstand? I'd like a black one to match my stealth longtail kit...;) Talking to the Canadian Xtracycle distributor the ones that ship with Xtracycle kits are longer than usual, only available with the kits and silver.
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I have a generic kickstand on mine, nothing special. I would like to find a better one as the one I have looks to be made out of some crappy pot metal and will probably snap if too much of a load is put on it.
Greenfield, black, $8.95 from Bikeman.com
works good with about 1.5 or 2 cm cut off
Joel
Thanks Joel...I asked my LBS to order me one in.
Are Greenfield kickstands serviceable? I got one on my hybrid two years ago, and after one Minnesota winter, it's practically seized up. It looks like the main pivot can't be taken apart. Is there any way to clean and regrease this thing?
The one that came on my BD complete is a black greenfield, powdercoated, 285mm
http://www.greenfieldny.com/chart_bicycle.htm
I guess they make a 305 as well. The 285 is standard, And I'd say the ideal length, could be stronger, center-stand would be nice, but I'd just put the greenfield on until Xtracycle comes out with their center-stand. It would seem the black ones are readily available judging by their being $7 on eBay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140197627796
The goodfellas at Speedgoat put a simple black 'stand on mine. Not sure of the brand. But I can tell you they whacked a bit off the end...(FYI).
Xtracycle's doing a center-stand that's Big Dummy compatible? Maxwell...talk to me, brother.
If it will fit the Hebie double legged kickstand would be fantastic. Its stability would make loading the BD much easier (no dealing with bike tipping due to uneven weight distribution).
I wish it fit the Hebie dual leg stand but the mounting is meant for the space behind the bottom bracket between the chainstays (which the BD doesnt have)
There have been a couple threads about center stands on the Xtracycle forums.
http://www.xtracycle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=150&st=0&sk=t&sd=a
All the production ones took some modification for an xtracycle. I think the only thing that would work on a Dummy would be the custom stands made by Val Kleitz. I believe he was making them for $200, not sure about now.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nollij/474967700/in/set-72157600142983106/
Xtracycle had a prototype at interbike '07, looks pretty snazz. I think they're expected to be out in the fall.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cleverchimp/1454487866/
Thanks, Maxwell. Good info...Guess I'll be patient with my current setup 'til we know/see more from Xtracycle and others. That Val Kleitz version looks heavy and complex, but...I'm still interested.
All the production ones took some modification for an xtracycle. I think the only thing that would work on a Dummy would be the custom stands made by Val Kleitz. I believe he was making them for $200, not sure about now.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/nollij/474967700/in/set-72157600142983106/
I believe they're closer to $400 now, and look a lot different.
Val's new center stand is available from Aaron's bike shop in Seattle. The new version does look a lot nicer and cleaner than his early versions. The price is a bit high but if there is enough demand, increased production is bound to reduce the end price. The high price as is reflects a lot of development time and costs.
http://www.rideyourbike.com/images/xtracycle/rollingjackass/rollingjackasscenterstandbigdummy.jpg
Click here and scroll down for more pics of the stand. (http://www.rideyourbike.com/xtracycle.html)
I like that stand. Val's new stand looks sturdy and simple. I think the pricepoint for a functional stand would be $75-100.
Val's new center stand is available from Aaron's bike shop in Seattle. The new version does look a lot nicer and cleaner than his early versions. The price is a bit high but if there is enough demand, increased production is bound to reduce the end price. The high price as is reflects a lot of development time and costs.
I'm blessed to be able to throw some cash at this crazy (expensive) Big Dummy build, but that kickstand...yowza. That's a lot. I get the R&D thing, but...dang, Hoss. That's bustin' mah bawls and I haven't even bought it yet!
For the price, I'd like to think that big hunk of metal is aluminum (won't rust)...and I'd like to think I could get a color choice, too.
Maybe I'm smokin' bat crap.
The price is a bit high but if there is enough demand, increased production is bound to reduce the end price. The high price as is reflects a lot of development time and costs.[/URL]
How so? Unless they're going to outsource the labor. 95% of it appears to be salvage material, meaning mass production would likely raise the material costs.
How so? Unless they're going to outsource the labor. 95% of it appears to be salvage material, meaning mass production would likely raise the material costs.
Salvaged material? You know not of what you speak, sir. It's all new materials from local suppliers.
The aluminum bracket may look a bit crude but the unit as a whole is actually lighter that it looks and very solid and functional. It fits and works as claimed.
There's this thing called economy of scale. Basically, in the fab shop world, it means the difference between how prototypes or custom fab units are made as opposed to a production shop. Time and costs for setup, tooling, cost of materials, etc. are vastly different when you're buying or making dozens or hundreds of anything vs. maybe a dozen of something. Every time you change process, build a jig or template, set up a new machine etc. you split that time/cost between the number of parts or units you pump out. The actual materials are a small percentage of the cost.
These guys are not making the stands to make big bucks. They are basically enthusiasts responding to several people who have expressed interest over time for a good, solid center stand. While they aren't trying to get rich off of these things, they also aren't making them for charity, they want to at least break even for their efforts to respond to the demand. The shop has sold 30 or 40 Xtracycles around here over the years so the 4 or 5 of these stands they have left won't be around too long.
While these things do cost more than I want to pay for one right now, I have to admit I have payed more in the past for aftermarket parts for my old cars and Italian motorcycles. This includes a center stand for a Guzzi that was more expensive than this, didn't actually fit the motorcycle it was designed for without modification, and was missing hardware required to mount it. With a couple different U-bolts, this stand would have worked much better on the Guzzi. And it's probably strong enough to hold it, too.
Note that I am not one of the people making these things, nor am I an employee of the shop selling them. I'm just a customer of the shop and chat with these folks fairly often. Since I have seen the evolution of these things, I am simply passing on what I know about them.
Ok, so I was in the mood to BS.
I think I'd have liked it better if it really had been made from a school chair or something similar.
I like the val's stand, although it is pricey. The xtra prototype center stand looks like it might impede wideloader or footsie installation, but it's hard to tell from the photo.
I decided to make my own stand. It actually isn't too much different than that red one with the aluminum bracket holding it on. Total money invested is probably about $35.00 right now. My prototype has a wooden bracket (as it's easier to work with for me) with steel center stand. Works great, but there are a few bugs to work out of it still. Mainly tension spring placement, but that's a minor detail.
My only quandary is do I want to try and make the bracket out of square tubing, or have something machined. Probably try some 4 or 5 inch aluminum tubing first. I think it would work well enough. Just need to find the time to go pick that tubing up.
Howdy all, and thanks for all the interest in stands for cargo machines. I am, indeed, Val, and I am happy to say that the stand you see in that picture was not meticulously hand built by me, but was built for me. Basic info: this stand will hold the bike upright even when loading a full (and full sized) beer keg onto one side of the rear wheel (with XtraCycle WideLoaders). It will support loads in excess of 300 lbs (yes, I've done it) and it allows you to use the bike as a seat, work bench, or (slightly wobbly) step ladder. Yes, the base is aluminum, and the stand itself is chromo, powdercoated. All hardware is stainless. It will deploy without dismounting. Reread that sentence. When you have a top heavy load on the back of your X/Dummy, stacked over your head, well over 200lbs, do you want to step off the bike to put it on the stand? Thought not. Set this stand, then step off. Step over the bike, push forward, and ride. Easy, right? As for the price, I wish I could say that it includes development costs. Actually, the online price of $350.00 (coming soon) reflects only materials and labor costs. I heartily applaud anyone who has the skills and ambition to make their own; I am sure that the materials will cost you less than mine will. Your labor can be valued as you choose. Actually marketing and providing any such thing is another level of effort and complexity, as I am sure many folks could tell you. Stay tuned, and watch this site: www.rollingjackass.com (http://www.rollingjackass.com) There's nothing there now, but soon to come. Again, it warms the proverbial cockles of my heart to see a discussion like this. Anyone who wants to haul stuff on a bike is aces with me, no matter what they use to do it. You all rock! Rubber side down.
While I'm still wondering what body part I'll sell to raise additional funds for Goat "food" (like, say, the stand we're talkin' about), I do deeply appreciate the small community we have here in the land of all things pedal powered; the fact that Val showed up to shed a bit o' light on his stand is purdy darn cool if you ask me.
You can be cynical and say, Well, sure he's gonna endorse it...
But is the design team behind your energy suckin', oversized stainless steel fridge gonna swing by the kitchen enthusiasts' forum and talk to the gang? Don't bet the farm on it.
So thanks for comin' by, Val and giving us that good info on the stand! I'll admit that I'm gonna hang out to see what those crazy hipsters at Xtracycle are cookin', but my gut tells me it ain't gonna be as brawny and overbuilt as what Val's describing above.
With that, please send all spare change to my new "Feed the Goat" campaign. Details to come... ;)
Looks cool to me but not sure it will jibe with internal hubs? Seems you need the rear derailleur pulley arm to keep the chain down low enough to clear the thing... or am I just misunderstanding the photo?
Steve
Looks cool to me but not sure it will jibe with internal hubs? Seems you need the rear derailleur pulley arm to keep the chain down low enough to clear the thing... or am I just misunderstanding the photo?
Steve
Hmmmmm. Great question, Steve.
VAL?
Hmm, you really need a two pulley tensioner for an internal hub on an xtra anyway. They aren't as long/low, but they stick in one place, derailleurs come up pretty high when you're in the big ring. I'd guess it'd work fine with the rohloff or similar tensioner.
Maxwell has it right; any longtail has enough flex in the frame that it requires a chain tensioner, even with an internal hub. My first setup on the X used a SRAM S7, with 2 pulley tensioner (my own) and 46/34t chainrings. An awesome drivetrain, but I exceeded the design parameters of the hub by moving to a neighborhood that requires over a mile of climbing (9-12%) every day. Now I use a NuVinci, with the same tensioner and rings, and it's even better. As for endorsing the stand, I not only own the company, I'm a customer, too. I am still using my original prototype. It has been severely abused for over six years, allowing me to place well in the Cycle Messenger World Championships Cargo Bike Race in '03 (I'm not a messenger or a racer), making it possible for me to help a freind move her bookstore, letting me sit on the deck every day when I take my break at work, and just generally making life so much easier that I find riding a bike without one terribly irritating any more. Oh, and it works with the Bike Blender, too (we've done it). For what it's worth, that particular stand (the first one, that is) is nowhere near as nice or as sturdy as the current version. It would be nice to make it available at a lower price, but it is a crucial component of a heavy duty utility bike, and is not too expensive compared to some other appropriate components - Phil or King rear hub: around $400.00; decent disc brakes (Avid Code or Magura Gustav) $350.00-$450.00; good internal hub: $1200.00 for Rohloff or $400.00 for NuVinci....the stand is not a throwaway afterthought, but an integral part of a truly useful machine. I knew I needed it before I even started to build mine. I couldn't imagine using it without. I actually gave one to the boys at XtraCycle, and told them they needed to make it. They haven't yet, so I am. They have one in development, sort of, and I must say that many aspects of it look really good, but I still like mine better. If they ever get it to market, maybe someone (not me) can do a side by side review. Rubber side down, all!
Dangit, Val. I was hoping you wouldn't say all that.
Now I gotta make it happen...
...anyone need a logo designed for $350?
Dangit, Val. I was hoping you wouldn't say all that.
Now I gotta make it happen...
...anyone need a logo designed for $350?
LMAO....:roflmao2:....Dylan....you're supposed to ask - "...can I get one in matte black?..."....:eek::D
LMAO....:roflmao2:....Dylan....you're supposed to ask - "...can I get one in matte black?..."....:eek::D
:twitchy:
You're right!
Val...talk to me, man: What's the possibility of getting one powdercoated in black? Vik's right...I'm on a mission and I need your help.
The batch in process currently should be equal numbers of black and metallic grey (we'll see how it comes out). Aaron likes the red, because it makes it stand out (yes, intended), but I realize that some folks (myself included) like to create a particular color scheme, so if enough people want a certain color, we can make it happen. Black, of course, goes with everything. Not so sure about the matte finish, but powdercoat is thick; you could easily scuff it with some 300 grit and take the shine off. I'll keep you posted. Always ready to help a man on a mission (even if he's just retiling the roof...sorry).
VAL: you get a batch powdercoated in black and I'll be first in line to buy one.
(Vik, I'm sure you're chuckling right now...)
...Aaron likes the red, because it makes it stand outIn my not so humble opinion, it's too much chroma on such a large part. Black or silver/gray? Great call.
Hey, I'm a designer. I've got opinions about this stuff. :thumb:
Black, of course, goes with everything. Baby, ain't dat da troof! :love:
Always ready to help a man on a mission (even if he's just retiling the roof...sorry). And I look forward to thanking you with cold, hard cash. :D
I'll take one in black too.
So Val...for us Big Dummy owners with Rohloff hubs and Rohloff tensioners: are you confident that this stand will work for our setups, too?
UPDATE: I got down low to look at my chainline coming out of that Rohloff tensioner and my chain appears to be running much higher than the one in your photo. As if it would either spend it's life scraping against the bottom of the red stand...or have to run INSIDE the aluminum bracket...
Thoughts?
I'll be keen to hear how you guys like your centre stands. I just threw a el-cheapo kickstand on my BD that I had in my parts box. It will probably have a short and unhappy life on the BD, but at least I'll satisfy myself I need something more burly before I plunk down some serious change for a centre stand.
I'm glad folks like Val are taking the time to get niche products like this built and although it isn't cheap the fact is low volume production of anything is challenging to do at low cost. I'd rather have options like this that are pricey than none at all.
I have no idea how the bike is made, but could the Hebie adapter be used?
http://hebie.de/produktbild/0699_40.jpg
Very well then; delving into more in depth research (up till now all my R & D has been aimed at getting it to work well and be strudy and stable), we find that the stand weighs 2.5 lbs, and that the lowest point is 8 cm below the bottom surface of the BD/X. Running inside the aluminum base is not really an option; there is stuff in there. If your drive train really does run higher than that, you might try tuning the chain length so that the tensioner sits with the pulleys directly above and below each other. In a worst case scenario, I had already envisioned a low friction plastic wrap for the section of the stand that is in proximity with the chain. You can actually see something of that nature in the photo online, but that one was removed, as it proved unnecessary. I think it will be a very special drivetrain that actually has a problem with this. As I mentioned, on a chain this long, there is always some sag in the middle, and this section of chain is only tensioned by the tensioner/derailleur. Let me know what you think (as if I would ever expect anything else).
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