"The 33"-Road Bike Racing - Ex Pro winning cat 3/4 races.....

I am just curious, how much satisfaction can an ex pro get out of winning local cat 3/4 races? The person that has won just about all (if not all) of the cat 3/4 Team Columbus races is an ex pro. From what I understand he only had a UCI license, not a USCF license so he can race whatever category he wants so he is racing the 3/4 race, not the 1/2/3 race.

Check out his profile (http://www.world-of-cycling.net/sites/riders/japan/yamamoto_yasuhiro.htm).

Ask Dr. Will.

--Steve

Looks to me like he had a US Cycling license in 2005:

http://www.usacycling.org/results/index.php?compid=196020&all=1

Placed 10th on that license number in a 1/2 race. Then wins a Cat 4 race on the same license number in 2007? Hmmm... fishy.

I cant imagine why an ex-pro would ever want to involve themselves in the sketch fest that is a cat 3/4 race.

How is he winning? I.e is he winning in a convincing fashion (destroying the field), or just barely winning at the line?

Maybe he's not training as much any more and doesn't have the fitness. But still, why would you want to race with 3/4 when you could just as easily race 1/2/3 and probably do well?

I can see downgrading to 3 if you don't have the time to train at the P1/2 level...although for most people that tends to happen around the time they can start racing masters 1/2/3.

Winning 3/4 races as a formerly internationally competitive guy is sorta like beating up mentally ******** amputees...

I can see downgrading to 3 if you don't have the time to train at the P1/2 level...although for most people that tends to happen around the time they can start racing masters 1/2/3.

Winning 3/4 races as a formerly internationally competitive guy is sorta like beating up mentally ******** amputees...

I think mentally ******** amputees are faster than me.

I think mentally ******** amputees are faster than me.

Faster sure, but we're talking about a brawl here. I think you could take 'em...

Ask Dr. Will.

--Steve


I LOLed

Looks to me like he had a US Cycling license in 2005:

http://www.usacycling.org/results/index.php?compid=196020&all=1

Placed 10th on that license number in a 1/2 race. Then wins a Cat 4 race on the same license number in 2007? Hmmm... fishy.

Hell one day he races as a 4 the next as a 3 then back to a 4..... REPORTED!

Maybe he's doing races based on start time. Just saying...

Don't even get me started on this guy.

He always spits about how great he was in Japan, then *****es about how they supposedly made him start over as a Cat 5 here(not sure of the real story) But on some local group rides we'll give him crap about racing in the 3/4's and he either a. Acts like he doesn't understand the translations, or b. says he doesn't feel like he can compete with the 1/2's.

He has gone to three local teams now and agreed to join, then demanded bikes, kits, etc. When they tell him to prove himself first, he contines racing solo. I'll give him credit he is a pretty strong rider, but he just sucks wheel then sprints the finish. No tactics.

Don't even get me started on this guy.

He always spits about how great he was in Japan, then *****es about how they supposedly made him start over as a Cat 5 here(not sure of the real story) But on some local group rides we'll give him crap about racing in the 3/4's and he either a. Acts like he doesn't understand the translations, or b. says he doesn't feel like he can compete with the 1/2's.

He has gone to three local teams now and agreed to join, then demanded bikes, kits, etc. When they tell him to prove himself first, he contines racing solo. I'll give him credit he is a pretty strong rider, but he just sucks wheel then sprints the finish. No tactics.

What kind of tactics are there when you ride solo?

What kind of tactics are there when you ride solo?

Attacking yourself into the ground.

Well, he is strong enough to solo off the front as he is a Cat 1. And I was alone a few races ago and tried to get 4-5 breaks going, but couldn't get good cooperation, but anyway..

There's just nothing other than sitting in the back third of the pack for the entire race then moving his way up on the last two laps and out sprinting everyone. Racing....yes, smart...... probably, but it just gets old knowing you've paid your money and then what's going to happen after you've attacked, bridged and worked all day just to get nipped by an "ex" pro. But what I am more aggrevated at are the way he conducts himself during the races. One example is the 7/21/07 race in which there was quite the pileup with 6-8 laps to go. They neutralized the field, but he moved to the front and took off, then argued that he was in a solo breakaway right when the crash happened. They brought him back to the pack, but put in in front. Then as we were rolling through on the last lap he took off(fair enough, but obviously nobody could hold his wheel). When they were questioning his results after the race, he began acting like he didn't understand English. But when they questioned his payout and whether he was in the right category, he sure knew how to speak.
Shoving Cat4's out of the paceline to move in is another one of his tactics. Hand on the hip and push. Legal, sure, but a guy who's been racing pro is a little bit more skilled than the back end of a Cat 4 race. He's just aggrevating as hell and nothing gets done about it. re the Cat 1, then Cat 3, then Cat 4 races he's done. And I know I watched him in a 4/5 race last year that the results weren't reported to USAC.

But whatever, I'll keep trying to outsprint him in the 3's when he decides to move up.

Didn't read the whole post, but if i were you I would just hold his wheel the entire race.

Didn't read the whole post, but if i were you I would just hold his wheel the entire race.

I'm not doing those races (yet) but when the time comes holding his wheel won't be an option. At least not for me. :(

Didn't read the whole post, but if i were you I would just hold his wheel the entire race.


You should read the post. Apparently this guy has the fitness to race with the P/1/2 field, and 3s have trouble holding his wheel.

If I were you I'd maybe contact your local USAC official.

You should read the post. Apparently this guy has the fitness to race with the P/1/2 field, and 3s have trouble holding his wheel.

If I were you I'd maybe contact your local USAC official.

They are not USAC sanctioned, they are ABR. I don't know much about ABR but for some reason I doubt they would care.

They are not USAC sanctioned, they are ABR. I don't know much about ABR but for some reason I doubt they would care.

I thought ABR's events were only around Chicago, perhaps out to Indiana. Are you talking about American Bike Racing?

I thought ABR's events were only around Chicago, perhaps out to Indiana. Are you talking about American Bike Racing?

Yep, they are in Ohio as well. The Team Columbus races are no longer USAC sanctioned so they got their insurance and sanctioning through ABR. The change has killed their turnout.

How many 3 races has he actually won?

Yep, they are in Ohio as well.

Good for them. Some of the best run races when I lived in Chicago.

You should read the post. Apparently this guy has the fitness to race with the P/1/2 field, and 3s have trouble holding his wheel.

If I were you I'd maybe contact your local USAC official.

That's not the worst idea ever offered on BF.

I still just cant get my head around to understanding why someone who is or was a professional bike racer would want to slum in the squirrelly Cat 3 or Cat 3/4 races. I'm a Cat 3 and I much prefer doing the Masters or even 1/2/3 races to avoid the sketch factor, even if the chances of me being OTB are better than my chances of finishing with a good result.

I thought ABR's events were only around Chicago, perhaps out to Indiana. Are you talking about American Bike Racing?

And I thought the ABR went extinct years ago.

The dude is right around is 30 ± a year or two. He's probably going through that "Saturn Return" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_return) phase that makes a person unsure of what they want to do with what they got (yes, you all went through it or are going through it or will go through it). Sounds strange, sure, whatever - but it's something to consider. He'll get his act back together in a year or so and either be racing pro or figure out what he wants to do with his talent and his life - when that happens, look out. In the meantime, do your best to beat him and deal with it. Complaining about it will get you nowhere. Use it as an opportunity to become better.

The dude is right around is 30 ± a year or two. He's probably going through that "Saturn Return" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_return) phase that makes a person unsure of what they want to do with what they got (yes, you all went through it or are going through it or will go through it). Sounds strange, sure, whatever - but it's something to consider. He'll get his act back together in a year or so and either be racing pro or figure out what he wants to do with his talent and his life - when that happens, look out. In the meantime, do your best to beat him and deal with it. Complaining about it will get you nowhere. Use it as an opportunity to become better.

Joke, yes? He's having Astrological issues? :lol:

The dude is right around is 30 ± a year or two. He's probably going through that "Saturn Return" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_return) phase that makes a person unsure of what they want to do with what they got (yes, you all went through it or are going through it or will go through it). Sounds strange, sure, whatever - but it's something to consider. He'll get his act back together in a year or so and either be racing pro or figure out what he wants to do with his talent and his life - when that happens, look out. In the meantime, do your best to beat him and deal with it. Complaining about it will get you nowhere. Use it as an opportunity to become better.

I'm not complaining about it, I'm not even racing against him. I just asked how much enjoyment he could be getting out of winning cat 3/4 races when he is / was a pro.

Doesn't everybody know what's going on? I would think the entire pack would be racing against him. If he's in your group, everyone sits on his wheel - never pull him. If he's in front of your group, everyone gives 100% to pull him back. If he's behind your group everyone gives 100% to keep him there. Unless he can out TT the top 10 riders acting as a TTT, he's going to have a hard time beating them. - TF

BTW - As for the pushing the rider's hip with your hand, I don't think it's legal if your hands are off the bars.

I don't think it's legal if your hands are off the bars.

I believe that's only for the finishing stretch... you know, the sprint.

If the guys riding solo, then perhaps some group tactics would help. If all the major teams in the area agree they'll all work together to chase down anything he does, no one gives him an inch for any place in the pack.

Take turns ushering him out of the back of every break.

Set up breaks that he has to cover (that sit up every time he bridges), then send out another break he has to cover, again and again and again, just rotating different guys to do it.

The 5 guys right in front of him set up and refuse to work, letting a gap form, forcing him to tow everybody back up to the peleton, etc, etc, etc.

If the guy truely is a jerk, behaves as one, and in violation of the rules, the group has ways to nuetralize him if they choose to do so.

And I thought the ABR went extinct years ago.

Alive and doing very well around Chicagoland. USCF races seem to disappearing fast. – TF

Sometime group tactics don't work if the guy rides everyone off his wheel. I see it happen a lot around here. The only hope is to spike his Gatorade with Exlax.

I'm not complaining about it, I'm not even racing against him. I just asked how much enjoyment he could be getting out of winning cat 3/4 races when he is / was a pro.

I guess that depends on his ego. A fat fark like me gets his jollies from dropping little old ladies pushing their shopping carts down the sidewalk. You guys are his little old ladies. ;)

I guess that depends on his ego. A fat fark like me gets his jollies from dropping little old ladies pushing their shopping carts down the sidewalk.

Were you finally able to drop one? If so, congratulations on reaching your goal!!! :D

I'm going to go out on a limb here and paint a scenario about what I believe is going on in this guys head.

What we have here is a transplant from a foreign country. Back in Japan (or wherever he's from) this guy had a career as a professional cyclist. Maybe he was successful, maybe he wasn't. I'm betting that he had a pretty mediocre career and didn't rack up many podiums, much less outright victories. My guess is that his team back home realized that he wasn't worth what they were paying him and didn't renew his contract. Now he finds himself in the US because maybe the job prospects in whatever field he studied (maybe this guy went to college?) are better over here. Finds out there is bike racing in the states and starts racing. Realizes that the system is different over here (I seem to recall Nomad mentioning that all his races were done as one big group?) and works the system so that he can boost his ego by getting some wins. (Kind of like shooting fish in a barrel)

Either way its an unsportsman-like way of racking up some wins and I hope that everyone lets him know that he's essentially shoplifting victories by pretending he doesn't quite understand the system.

I'd berate him at every opportunity.

Sometime group tactics don't work if the guy rides everyone off his wheel. I see it happen a lot around here. The only hope is to spike his Gatorade with Exlax.


True,

but apparently this guy just sits in to the end and sprints. You can at least force him to cover repeated breaks. It just takes some cooperation amongst the group. The problem may that this is expecting too much tactical cooperation from Cat 3/4 riders.

That would take a lot of cooperation from a lot of people. It'd be like when Kramer on Seinfeld was king of the dojo but the kids finally got fed up and beat him senseless. Everyone needs to get fed up and not just give up. But I'm not in that situation, so I don't know. I just go out and get my a55 handed to me and go home crying.

I just go out and get my a55 handed to me and go home crying.

pcad would be so proud.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and paint a scenario about what I believe is going on in this guys head.

What we have here is a transplant from a foreign country. Back in Japan (or wherever he's from) this guy had a career as a professional cyclist. Maybe he was successful, maybe he wasn't. I'm betting that he had a pretty mediocre career and didn't rack up many podiums, much less outright victories. My guess is that his team back home realized that he wasn't worth what they were paying him and didn't renew his contract. Now he finds himself in the US because maybe the job prospects in whatever field he studied (maybe this guy went to college?) are better over here. Finds out there is bike racing in the states and starts racing. Realizes that the system is different over here (I seem to recall Nomad mentioning that all his races were done as one big group?) and works the system so that he can boost his ego by getting some wins. (Kind of like shooting fish in a barrel)

Either way its an unsportsman-like way of racking up some wins and I hope that everyone lets him know that he's essentially shoplifting victories by pretending he doesn't quite understand the system.

I'd berate him at every opportunity.


Google his name and you will see hes done several CAT 1/2 races here (and placed/won).........

Google his name and you will see hes done several CAT 1/2 races here (and placed/won).........

That just reinforces what I said.

I'd make him feel like an idiot for entering 4/5 or 3/4 races on the basis that he is perfectly capable of racing (and winning) in the P/1/2 field.

Something along the lines of "Grow some balls, cherrypicker!"

Catch my drift?

Maybe we're rushing to judgment. He could be giving his winnings to an orphanage. He feels this is the only way to assure a victory and at least some earnings. I can see it. Because I'm a nice guy too. All 20 dollars I made this year went straight to a poor person - myself. But I'm good like that never thinking of myself, always those less fortunate - like me.

Unless this guy goes by the name of Ballan, Cancellara, DeVolder, Hoste, Hincapie, or Boonen, there's a good chance that, with some effort on your part, you'd roll off the front after a good series of attacks, and cooperation, on your part.

One guy was pretty much despised around here last year. We attacked him until we got away, and then others attacked until he DNF'd.

And I thought the ABR went extinct years ago.
Nope http://www.ambikerace.com/

They are not USAC sanctioned, they are ABR. I don't know much about ABR but for some reason I doubt they would care.

One possibly important bit of context for those who don't know Tym Tyler races. These races that Yasu is winning usually have less than 10 riders. Yes he's a sandbagger, but that series is unfortunately a bit of a joke right now. Tym's standards have been going down for a while, the state USAC officials (Albers) finally decided to apply pressure, so Tym jumped to ABR. USAC and the teams are trying to boycott him, so his races have gone from 30+ riders to <10. Or at least that's my understanding of the soap opera.

These races that Yasu is winning usually have less than 10 riders.

And there you have it—sounds like you simply can't beat this guy with a pack of <10. You'll need at least 30; 10 to get away, 10 to block, and 10 to DNF.

On a side note: ABR races are getting better reception in Chicagoland, thanks to Athletes By Design. The ABR races I did in '06 were better run than most USAC races in the area, even on par with the SuperWeek events. Maybe a little lower profile, but that just means milder competition.

There is a simple fix to this. Tell him that if he enters Cat4/5 he won't finish, but give him the chance to do the right thing. If he tries, make sure he doesn't even get the chance to start. Take a knife or leather punch and pop both tires right before you ride away. It's not nice, but I bet it gets the point across. Foreigners are like cue balls, if you hit them hard enough, you can always get english out of them.

Joke, yes? He's having Astrological issues? :lol:

:D

And there you have it—sounds like you simply can't beat this guy with a pack of <10. You'll need at least 30; 10 to get away, 10 to block, and 10 to DNF.

On a side note: ABR races are getting better reception in Chicagoland, thanks to Athletes By Design. The ABR races I did in '06 were better run than most USAC races in the area, even on par with the SuperWeek events. Maybe a little lower profile, but that just means milder competition.

We appreciate the compliments. :)

The Winfield Weekend should be amazing this year, as always. The neighborhoods around each race course are always extremely supportive, and the racing is top notch.

I think ABD is putting on about 20 TTs, RRs and crits this year. Not huge in the money department, but good for getting people into the sport, and giving those that are already "in" something to do in between the more financially endowed events.

There is a simple fix to this. Tell him that if he enters Cat4/5 he won't finish, but give him the chance to do the right thing. If he tries, make sure he doesn't even get the chance to start. Take a knife or leather punch and pop both tires right before you ride away. It's not nice, but I bet it gets the point across. Foreigners are like cue balls, if you hit them hard enough, you can always get english out of them.

This is a hobby. We're sporting and having fun, remember? Sure this guy is a piece, but really, what's it all worth?