"The bicyclist is under attack from all directions - the streets are ragged, the air is poison, and the drivers are angry."

It's like a jungle out there for bike riders. And the attack comes from the top and from the bottom... Lions on SUVs*, given to zigzagging around and yapping away on the cell phone, threaten them from the top, and rats from the underworld steal their wheels if not their bike to support their crack addiction. And then you report it, and it goes into oblivion. So it is that cyclists must stay in constant alert for predators, like the monkeys of the jungle.

*"Have you ever wondered why sport utility vehicle drivers seem like such ***? Surely it's no coincidence that Terry McAuliffe, chairman of the Dem-ocratic National Committee, tours Washington in one of the biggest SUVs on the market, the Cadillac Escalade, or that Jesse Ventura loves the Lincoln Navigator. Well, according to New York Times reporter Keith Bradsher's new book, High and Mighty, the connection between the two isn't a coincidence. Unlike any other vehicle before it, the SUV is the car of choice for the nation's most self-centered people; and the bigger the SUV, the more of a jerk its driver is likely to be."

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/...2.mencimer.html

Life in the jungle ain't easy...


RIDING A BIKE COSTS PEANUTS

http://webspawner.com/users/donquijote88

Admin note: removed advertising as per forum guidelines.

Unlike any other vehicle before it, the SUV is the car of choice for the nation's most self-centered people;

Seems to be true, from my experience

and the bigger the SUV, the more of a jerk its driver is likely to be."

meh, I get more problems with aggresive driving from cars like this that are driven by the 18-25 demographic. http://www.hamptoninfo.com/1990Stang/1990Stang-003.jpg

I can't drive around the block without a prius trying to run me over.

I can't drive around the block without a prius trying to run me over.

"Go green - and get off the road, you effin' cyclist!" :roflmao:

-Kurt

"Go green - and get off the road, you effin' cyclist!" :roflmao:

-Kurt

That's the attitude, plus they are SUPER quiet.

"The bicyclist is under attack from all directions - the streets are ragged, the air is poison, and the drivers are angry."

Great post and links! Thank you.

"The bicyclist is under attack from all directions - the streets are ragged, the air is poison, and the drivers are angry."


Sounds kinda familiar.

I'll just point out that a Mini Cooper, while cute, will kill you just as dead as a Ford Expulsion. Okay, maybe not quite that dead, but dead enough.

Robert

I think the SUVs are more dangerous in a reckless kind of way, while teenagers are more into the wild, aggressive way.

Which one is more dangerous in the jungle, the elephant or the lion? It depends... :rolleyes:

The Prius chasing you simply means they are jealous. You get much better mileage than him. And you can run on bananas! ;)

Sounds kinda familiar.

I'll just point out that a Mini Cooper, while cute, will kill you just as dead as a Ford Expulsion. Okay, maybe not quite that dead, but dead enough.

Robert

Not quite. I've seen a lady riding a scooter survive because she was hit by a regular car. She was broadsided and her legs were broken, but she was fine otherwise. And she was not wearing a helmet!

An SUV higher bumpers would have been deadly.

Not quite. I've seen a lady riding a scooter survive because she was hit by a regular car. She was broadsided and her legs were broken, but she was fine otherwise. And she was not wearing a helmet!

An SUV higher bumpers would have been deadly.


You have to see some of our local "truckzillas", just think, here locally there's a 19 yo female who has a newer Dodge pickup that's lifted 10 inches(no, it's not her boyfriend's truck). I'd be a mere bump in the road if she just happen not to see me. Definitely gives new meaning to "Cowgirl Up".

"The bicyclist is under attack from all directions - the streets are ragged, the air is poison, and the drivers are angry."

It's like a jungle out there for bike riders.


Don't forget folks, when you are behind the wheel, you can help change all this by treating cyclists with respect, courtesy, and giving them the full share of the road and right of way that we are entitled to under the law. It is odd that people never mention this in these forums, when in fact we are all drivers at some point; me fears that behind the wheel many of us are as bad as we accuse others of being.

roughstuff

What does attacking the type of vehicle people drive have to do with cycling advocacy or safety? Isn't how they drive it a more important and even more how you drive?
Or is the intent to encourage people to take up cycling by insulting them?
Or perhaps to discourage people from taking up cycling by making the environment out to be worse than it is. Make it out so bad that no one will cycle and there will be no more cyclist injuries or death.

I do however agree that vehicles that violate equipment safety standards are more likely to increase injury severity when in a collision.

Al

What does attacking the type of vehicle people drive have to do with cycling advocacy or safety? Isn't how they drive it a more important and even more how you drive?
Or is the intent to encourage people to take up cycling by insulting them?
Or perhaps to discourage people from taking up cycling by making the environment out to be worse than it is. Make it out so bad that no one will cycle and there will be no more cyclist injuries or death.

I do however agree that vehicles that violate equipment safety standards are more likely to increase injury severity when in a collision.

Al

I think what the OP is trying to say is that those that drive certain types of vehicles tend to drive in ways that are not exactly safe... at least for those outside of the vehicle (as in us cyclist types). So the attack is not against the vehicle, but the personality of those that tend to drive certain vehicles.

What does attacking the type of vehicle people drive have to do with cycling advocacy or safety?

Nothing.
It's exactly the same as the SUV drivers making generalizations about "those bicycle people."
I'm sure there are cyclists who make assumptions about me when they see my lifted mudder Jeep with the CB antennas and winch bumpers; but a few cyclists (total strangers walking along the road) have been "rescue lifted" to the bike shop in my hillbilly 4-wheeler to fix their busted spoke or broken pedal.

I live in Texas north (Alberta) and do not do mean to disparage Texans or Albertans but damn...
folks here love their trucks (they outsell cars).

A four wheel drive 3/4 ton pickup is considered to be an acceptable commuter.

Fuel is 1.20 a litre / 4.80 gallon (Cdn) and many folks think that 20 mpg is pretty good.

In this jungle we are most often prey but we can also be pretty damn hard to catch and put up a good fight when we need to.

Don't forget folks, when you are behind the wheel, you can help change all this by treating cyclists with respect, courtesy, and giving them the full share of the road and right of way that we are entitled to under the law. It is odd that people never mention this in these forums, when in fact we are all drivers at some point; me fears that behind the wheel many of us are as bad as we accuse others of being.

roughstuff

Last week I tried to do just this and almost got blindsided by the driver behind me.

3 bicycles on a narrow 2 lane road without shoulder, not taking the lane but I would have had to cross the center line to pass. There was a string of cars coming the other way so I waited to pass. The car behind me began honking and waving "both hands" :eek:. After the last oncoming car I began to pass, only to find the car from behind alongside passing both me and the bicycles. I don't think that the dangerous drivers out there are just a problem for cyclists.

The average driver out there needs some serious training.

By the way, he was driving a very effecient Toyota Yaris just like mine, and he wasn't talking on a cell phone or playing with the radio. Profiling doesn't work for dangerous drivers, they come in all sizes and shapes.

Last week I tried to do just this and almost got blindsided by the driver behind me.

....After the last oncoming car I began to pass, only to find the car from behind alongside passing both me and the bicycles. ....... Profiling doesn't work for dangerous drivers, they come in all sizes and shapes.



YIKES! The dreaded DOUBLE PASS. At least you acted as a 'pick' (in the basketball sense) for the poor cyclists whom you treated so courteously.
Not sure I could have handled this situation any better than you did. Maybe wave and smile to the guy who honked at ya.

roughstuff

... in fact we are all drivers at some point...

Sorry, but you're wrong there. I'd bet that I'm not the only one here who's given up driving an automobile.

Sorry, but you're wrong there. I'd bet that I'm not the only one here who's given up driving an automobile.

Ahhh...yes indeed! But don't ya ever offer to gve your momma a ride to the grocery store? or do ya make her bike on her own! ;)

roughstuff

Cars aren't the problem
drivers are.

Cars aren't the problem
drivers are.

They're both a problem.

You have to see some of our local "truckzillas", just think, here locally there's a 19 yo female who has a newer Dodge pickup that's lifted 10 inches(no, it's not her boyfriend's truck). I'd be a mere bump in the road if she just happen not to see me. Definitely gives new meaning to "Cowgirl Up".

On the other hand, they might pass clear over a recumbent without touching. ;)

http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=16531074

Abstract of study on driver eye height, speed and following distance.

Al

They're both a problem.

i see where you're coming from, it's kinda like that people kill people not guns argument. does a car kill a person or does a person kill a person? i think its the driver who is the problem.

a car itself is harmless it doesn't move on its own. the driver is what makes the difference between a two thousand pound pedestrian crusher and an alert courteous commuter.



...but if the driver doesn't have a car can he still run people over?
oh snap!

...but if the driver doesn't have a car can he still run people over?
oh snap!

Do you cease to be a driver if you don't have a car, or is it a general state of being? I'm a cyclist, even when I'm not on my bike.

i see where you're coming from, it's kinda like that people kill people not guns argument. does a car kill a person or does a person kill a person? i think its the driver who is the problem.

a car itself is harmless it doesn't move on its own. the driver is what makes the difference between a two thousand pound pedestrian crusher and an alert courteous commuter.



...but if the driver doesn't have a car can he still run people over?
oh snap!



Perhaps. All else equal, a car is more harmful than a bike. It occupies more space and consumes more resources. As courteous as an SUV driver might be, it is harder for me to see behind HIM with my rear view mirror to get an idea about the road.

It is a better argument to say both modes have advantages an disadvantages. Disdvantages and limitations that bicycles have mean they have a limited role to play in the transportation mix. By any reasonable measure...revenue miles, ton miles, passenger miles...their contribution is modest at best.

roughstuff

You have to see some of our local "truckzillas", just think, here locally there's a 19 yo female who has a newer Dodge pickup that's lifted 10 inches(no, it's not her boyfriend's truck). I'd be a mere bump in the road if she just happen not to see me. Definitely gives new meaning to "Cowgirl Up".

Only hope is that they go high enough and we go low enough for the truck to pass over us. :eek:

Don't forget folks, when you are behind the wheel, you can help change all this by treating cyclists with respect, courtesy, and giving them the full share of the road and right of way that we are entitled to under the law. It is odd that people never mention this in these forums, when in fact we are all drivers at some point; me fears that behind the wheel many of us are as bad as we accuse others of being.

roughstuff

This is the Jekyll and Hyde type of thing. The SUV makes us monsters and the bike makes us a humane, friendly, ecological folk. Ah, and also vegetarian... :D

What does attacking the type of vehicle people drive have to do with cycling advocacy or safety? Isn't how they drive it a more important and even more how you drive?
Or is the intent to encourage people to take up cycling by insulting them?
Or perhaps to discourage people from taking up cycling by making the environment out to be worse than it is. Make it out so bad that no one will cycle and there will be no more cyclist injuries or death.

I do however agree that vehicles that violate equipment safety standards are more likely to increase injury severity when in a collision.

Al

We first have to say how bad it is before we can fix, no?

Or you want us to live happily ever after, even though we are treated like second class citizens when doing the right thing? Nobody is proposing that they are banned, just that the beast should be in the cage (and eat banana).

Nothing.
It's exactly the same as the SUV drivers making generalizations about "those bicycle people."
I'm sure there are cyclists who make assumptions about me when they see my lifted mudder Jeep with the CB antennas and winch bumpers; but a few cyclists (total strangers walking along the road) have been "rescue lifted" to the bike shop in my hillbilly 4-wheeler to fix their busted spoke or broken pedal.

How about requiring a truck license for those who drive trucks (SUVs)? How about banning cell phones? How about gadgets like DVD players? How about zigazaggin on the roads?

Too much, huh?

In this jungle we are most often prey but we can also be pretty damn hard to catch and put up a good fight when we need to.

It's only a matter of getting together. Same strategy used by the hyenas when fighting a lion.

However, smart monkeys only need their brains (and a banana). ;)

By the way, he was driving a very effecient Toyota Yaris just like mine, and he wasn't talking on a cell phone or playing with the radio. Profiling doesn't work for dangerous drivers, they come in all sizes and shapes.

In the jungle, the lion is not the only predator. You also have the hyenas, wild dogs...

But then again, you may find a vegetarian lion. It's possible according to some religious people.:rolleyes:

Cars aren't the problem
drivers are.

Cars give power to the people. And some people just can't handle power.

They better be riding bikes.

We first have to say how bad it is before we can fix, no?

Or you want us to live happily ever after, even though we are treated like second class citizens when doing the right thing? Nobody is proposing that they are banned, just that the beast should be in the cage (and eat banana).

If you want to fix something you better accurately define the problem.

If you want to fix something you better accurately define the problem.

The problem is so big and complex that I can only define it as a jungle...

Some reading of this book though will give you an idea of why we need to fix things. And I have some solutions too, based on the models that work (for bikes and cars), namely Holland, Germany, Scandinavia...

'It's No Accident: The Real Story Behind Senseless Death and Injury on Our Roads' :mad:

Description:
For more than 30 years, the government has been ramming cars into walls in an effort to make car crashes safe. The public has been conditioned to believe that seatbelts, airbags and more "crashworthy" vehicles are the best ways to protect us from harm on the roads. Meanwhile, the most basic strategies to deter dangerous driving and prevent crashes have been ignored. "It's No Accident" provides a rare glimpse into how the government got seduced by the promise of "safe crashing." It then examines the major factors involved in crashes today, including speeding, aggressive driving, distractions (e.g. cell phones) and drowsy driving. The author reveals that many dangerous behaviors are now promoted by businesses, and that drivers who kill often walk away with just a small fine. This expose is a must-read for anyone concerned about what's happening on our roads and how to stop it.

http://www.lulu.com/content/186268

Personally, I see far more idiocy from motorists when I'm driving a car than when I'm cycling. And yes, I treat cyclists as I expect to be treated. It's not that hard. The biggest thing for me is that I never drive as though I'm in a hurry (I think cycling played a large part in teaching me that). So many people don't though, and it coaxes them into doing stupid things.

That book sounds like an awesome read. I must track it down.

I can't drive around the block without a prius trying to run me over.

My wife no doubt, Thats how I know when it's safe to ride, Prius in the garage, I go, Prius not, cut the grass.

I can't drive around the block without a prius trying to run me over.

Priuses are the #1 cause of smug, followed by cyclists. ;P

Personally, I see far more idiocy from motorists when I'm driving a car than when I'm cycling.


Indeed all but the biggest SUVs are at risk because the law of the jungle on our roads. Small cars are fair game too. :(

How about requiring a truck license for those who drive trucks (SUVs)?
For trucks over a certain size, or with specific equipment (air brakes, articulated trailer), or trucks used to haul specialized materials (hazmat, flammables, explosives) you already need a special license.
An SUV, even the largest of them, hardly requires more skills than driving a large passenger sedan. The problem is that drivers who can't even handle a Geo Metro safely are piloting something like the GMC Denali.
I don't think there needs to be a special SUV license, but I do think that every driver should be required to re-take their road and manouverabiliy portions of the driver's test when purchasing a new vehicle, just to prove that they have the skills to handle it. (No matter if it's a Lincoln Navigator or a SMART Car.)

How about banning cell phones?
Plenty of states have done this (for handheld, at least.) Unfortunately they usually make it a secondary infraction, so drivers can't be pulled over for it.

How about gadgets like DVD players?
Again, plenty of states already have bans on DVD players with screens for the driver. I couldn't care less if someone wants a DVD player to keep their passengers occupied. Heck, I have a mobile broadband connection in my Jeep so my passengers can plug their laptops in and get online.

How about zigazaggin on the roads?
Already illegal.

Too much, huh?
Not too much. Mostly irrelevant, I think. My point was that you can't judge people strictly by the vehicle they choose. What was your point?

Priuses are the #1 cause of smug, followed by cyclists. ;P
Uh oh.. I drive my wifes prius on alternating days to my commute or when there is really severe weather. Bike MWF Prius TuTh

I haven't hit any cyclist yet with it. I came soooooooooo close to causing a prius on prius accident on my bike though that woulda been schweeeeeeet!


The driver I'm worried most about I'm going to eat lunch with right now.. They exceed the speed limit almost at all times. They weave in traffic. They watch movies on their video ipod while driving.. I'm sooooooooooo glad we don't commute in the same direction.

The driver I'm worried most about I'm going to eat lunch with right now.. They exceed the speed limit almost at all times. They weave in traffic. They watch movies on their video ipod while driving.. I'm sooooooooooo glad we don't commute in the same direction.
And you haven't backhanded them yet?

Everyone in Michigan drives Trucks and SUVs, and they're all jerks.

Seems about right.

Not too much. Mostly irrelevant, I think. My point was that you can't judge people strictly by the vehicle they choose. What was your point?

Clearly there's a need to give a greater training to those behind greater vehicles. That's the logic behind the truck license. Imagine if they were as casual about it as SUV drivers! And the SUV drivers are not simply bad drivers, they are reckless drivers that casually chat on the phone, without concern for others, who, when the accident comes, would be on the losing end of the game. It probably has to do with SUV drivers feeling superior ("I'm the King of the Jungle") to the crowd out there. :mad:

But to achieve peace in the jungle, we need to compensate for those at the bottom of the food chiain, namely, pedestrians, cyclists and small cars...


Now, saying that motor vehicles should have the same rights as pedestrians or cyclists is like saying that water skiers should be allowed on all waters in front of a popular beach. The Highway Code by instigating this non-sensical equality status, that inevitably leads to the law of the jungle, is bunk. It has the same moral standing as the South African Pbutt Law.

It is not abiding to rules that we should exhort, but consideration to all other people and especially to those who are more vulnerable than ourselves. Yes there are definitely inconsiderate bicycle riders in London, and it is absolutely no excuse to say, 'It is a jungle out there, I need to defend my self'. We need to raise the level of social responsibility, starting by ourselves. The roads are a commons to be enjoyed by everyone, starting by people on foot. Then the greater or more dangerous the vehicle one chooses to use, the fewer rights one has and the more consideration one needs to give to more vulnerable people.

(http://www.ugroups.com/driver/Cyclists-are-Victims-of-the-Law-of-the-Jungle-4890.html)

I've just found something that confirms the above...

One major problem of SUVs is that some drivers tend to contract SUV invincibility syndrome, which manifests itself by aggressive behavior. Infected individuals mistakenly reason that the sheer size of the vehicle suddenly makes them supreme road worriers. In other words some mild mannered women who drive SUVs become aggressive chicks with dicks, and a few normal guys who drive SUVs become über dick heads.
http://www.phaster.com/road_trips/suv_review_why_they_suck.html

Regarding SUV's, a news story recently highlighting the ever-rising gas prices featured a lady whose monthly gas costs commuting in her SUV was $400.

She now rides mass transit instead at a savings of over $300/month. That's enough to pay for a small car...

Regarding SUV's, a news story recently highlighting the ever-rising gas prices featured a lady whose monthly gas costs commuting in her SUV was $400.

She now rides mass transit instead at a savings of over $300/month. That's enough to pay for a small car...

And I read the sales of American SUVs are down roughly 30%...

Who said gas is too expensive??? :p