I'm sure there are topics you all would rather not get into at the moment, but I have a few suggestions:

Have a full-time SSFG moderator who knows that section of the forums, read posts promptly, takes nothing personally, and has a fair but otherwise firm hand about moderation. Whoever that person is will have to endure an onslaught of abuse and accusations of "censorship," hence the need for someone who would not take things personally and would keep a calm and level head. The reason it helps to be dedicated to SSFG is that it means you can more easily tell what's an obvious joke and what's not (and I've worked with emotionally and developmentally disturbed children, I realize it's a fine line and what starts as play can easily turn into an actual fight).

A number of the "problem" threads in ssfg of late have been obviously problematic from an early stage, but have been allowed to continue for a long while, if people are going to stop making threads/posts that are a problem, the moderator would need to be vigilant, and not just some hand that comes down out of the sky and deletes without comment (this isn't meant to be a dis against all of the mods, I've seen mods on this site do just that); sometimes a little rational explanation at the time of moderation goes a long way (and for those who continue to abuse after moderation, it can make them play the fool).

At the same time, "disrespect of the moderation team" seems to be a somewhat problematic distinction: clearly I don't know everything that is said in private messaging... so perhaps it does cross a line, but moderating a website isn't always a pretty job, people get up in arms and say unfortunate things. A thick skin is an asset; a calm, cool, and collected explanation can go a long way.

That said... I hope the moderators understand my flippancy of the past few days is based on vaguely worded threats from various moderators; you're the moderators, start banning/giving infractions or lock the forums as threatened. The way moderators are behaving at the moment I can't entirely blame people for thinking there's some sort of "cabal of censors" afoot... don't make threats you won't carry out, make an executive decision and put it into action (but go back to my first point, banning/giving infractions to people who have mysteriously been deemed disrespectful to moderators won't go over well with anyone).

Once you come up with a plan, try to make a list that will help explain the crack-down rules to the hoi polloi and sticky them in the ssfg room... there's nothing wrong with working to restore civility.

Best of luck, I don't envy you.

-tdt

PS: I want to be clear my comment about people having a thick skin has nothing to do with... that which is none of our business.

I would like to point out that mods created the vast majority of the problems on the forum by acting like unaccountable *******s. People got pissed about it and a ****storm ensued, and since they lack the intellectual capacity to handle it rationally and like adults, they went buck-wild and mega-banned everyone who called them on it.

I don't know what's going on, there's definitely some funny stuff. I've been banned and un-banned twice today. I imagine it's somehow part of the moderators' purging process.

I presently can't access the SSFG forum, which won't really be a problem, since the board is likely to very shortly fall apart, and much of it's user-base is going to defect to other forums. At which point, they can shut the forum down and Brian can finally be right about something.

I would like to point out that mods created the vast majority of the problems on the forum by acting like unaccountable *******s. People got pissed about it and a ****storm ensued, and since they lack the intellectual capacity to handle it rationally and like adults, they went buck-wild and mega-banned everyone who called them on it.

yep. i agree.

now, who would like to start a new forum for SSFG? i know it may be fruitless, but it happened on vwvortex.com in the vintage watercooled section, springing mk1love.com, who our very own deathhare moderates. if anyone wants to give it a shot, i'm more than willing to help out. WE moderate it, WE run it, and we know where it all came from.

stupid? pointless? good idea? let me know.

Ya, this wasn't a "problem" until it was handled very poorly.

Also.. nice job on the mod flood, my internet foo is strong, I can run D and play mod flood sidetracking while continuing to contribute to the real stuff and see all the ridiculous deletions and edits. Nice try.

Users are advertising dollars the users make up the community, the users essentially pay the bills indirectly? Am I right?

Ya, this wasn't a "problem" until it was handled very poorly.

Also.. nice job on the mod flood, my internet foo is strong, I can run D and play mod flood sidetracking while continuing to contribute to the real stuff and see all the ridiculous deletions and edits. Nice try.

Users are advertising dollars the users make up the community, the users essentially pay the bills indirectly? Am I right?

with the hundreds of users logged in right now, and even more visitors, i doubt they care very little about a few regular posters in one sub-forum.

with the hundreds of users logged in right now, and even more visitors, i doubt they care very little about a few regular posters in one sub-forum.

True, but every dollar counts. It doesn't pay to push users of your "product" away.

True, but every dollar counts. It doesn't pay to push users of your "product" away.

good point. i'd be interested to know what Internet Brands thinks of all of this (that is who owns this place right?)

Boom, kicked out as part of round 2. I like to think I added some value to the forum answering questions and starting conversations. Its not that hard to be knowledgeable about a bicycle.. a bicycle with 1 gear.

Woohoo nice job guys.

As far as I'm concerned, I was banned for calling the moderators out. I was never a part of any wacky Photoshop thread, I rarely argued with anyone, and I feel like I mostly offered helpful advice or just general congenial conversation and silly quips.

It's obvious that certain moderators stirred the pot here. I don't think it's some kind of conspiracy, it was just a big pile-on, where one moderator got started, and the others who followed lacked the self-control (or the sense of humor) to know when to stop. I know I say this a lot, but this whole thing just smacks of the same chest-thumping you always get from Brian, where he starts ****ing with things, and then says "Yeah, what are you going to do about it? I don't make idle threats." Classic ITG syndrome.

As far as I'm concerned, I was banned for calling the moderators out. I was never a part of any wacky Photoshop thread, I rarely argued with anyone, and I feel like I mostly offered helpful advice or just general congenial conversation and silly quips.

It's obvious that certain moderators stirred the pot here. I don't think it's some kind of conspiracy, it was just a big pile-on, where one moderator got started, and the others who followed lacked the self-control (or the sense of humor) to know when to stop. I know I say this a lot, but this whole thing just smacks of the same chest-thumping you always get from Brian, where he starts ****ing with things, and then says "Yeah, what are you going to do about it? I don't make idle threats." Classic ITG syndrome..

sadly, i don't think you'll find too many of us who will disagree with you. the problem always has been a few mods (brian, SBW, one guy who's name i can't remember) who don't give a ****, have made up their minds already, but will fan the flames to see what kind of reaction they can get out of everyone, thereby giving pleny of ammo when anyone asks "WTF?"

I never even knew the touch of a wom...er, infraction.

It was pretty clear Brian baited us all with the Closing thread. Who ever posted there with dissent then gets kicked out of SSFG. Honestly, I think that most moderation here is handled really poorly. Lets run over a few examples of BF moderation versus a place that has good moderation:

1. Report about offensive image
BF: Delete the post without any notice
Good: Edit the post turn the image into a URL with a note from the moderator doing it "changed this image to a url because deemed NSFW, click if you dare - love moderator"

2. Report of offensive post
BF: Delete the post without any notice
Good: Edit the post taking out the offensive part or the entire post with a moderator note "Please this was deemed in poor taste - love the moderator"

3. People *****ing and arguing
BF: Delete the thread (re: tomassini)
Good: Send PMs to some of the parties involved, leave some moderator notes on the thread itself, and if any parties continue to act in poor taste take appropriate action.

Notice, the good way, nice and transparent. No one feels like there is a magical overlord editing and deleting posts, everything is documented, people know if they did something wrong. Heck, I typed out a nice long post no swearing, just pointing out some facts and trying to get some of the mods to see it another way.. deleted.

Apparently some mod was too busy reading mein komph and diddling themselves instead of thinking of a proper resolution to the (debatable) problem. Thats right.. Goodwins law. I pulled out the nazi card.

It was pretty clear Brian baited us all with the Closing thread. Who ever posted there with dissent then gets kicked out of SSFG. Honestly, I think that most moderation here is handled really poorly. Lets run over a few examples of BF moderation versus a place that has good moderation:

1. Report about offensive image
BF: Delete the post without any notice
Good: Edit the post turn the image into a URL with a note from the moderator doing it "changed this image to a url because deemed NSFW, click if you dare - love moderator"
That's one way to handle it. Sometimes we do it that way and other times we don't. If the image rates a higher degree of NSFW, we delete it.


2. Report of offensive post
BF: Delete the post without any notice
Good: Edit the post taking out the offensive part or the entire post with a moderator note "Please this was deemed in poor taste - love the moderator"
There comes a point when there is far too much to edit out and post messages about. This is a volunteer position. We all have jobs and we also all need to sleep at some point daily.


3. People *****ing and arguing
BF: Delete the thread (re: tomassini)
Good: Send PMs to some of the parties involved, leave some moderator notes on the thread itself, and if any parties continue to act in poor taste take appropriate action.
Sorry, not going to budge on this one. There were threats of legal action credible enough to remove those threads.

Notice, the good way, nice and transparent. No one feels like there is a magical overlord editing and deleting posts, everything is documented, people know if they did something wrong. Heck, I typed out a nice long post no swearing, just pointing out some facts and trying to get some of the mods to see it another way.. deleted.

Apparently some mod was too busy reading mein komph and diddling themselves instead of thinking of a proper resolution to the (debatable) problem. Thats right.. Goodwins law. I pulled out the nazi card.
It sounds like the way we moderate here conflict with your personal principles about freedom on the internet. That's a tough place for anyone to be in. It must be uncomfortable for you.

It was pretty clear Brian baited us all with the Closing thread. Who ever posted there with dissent then gets kicked out of SSFG. Honestly, I think that most moderation here is handled really poorly. Lets run over a few examples of BF moderation versus a place that has good moderation:

1. Report about offensive image
BF: Delete the post without any notice
Good: Edit the post turn the image into a URL with a note from the moderator doing it "changed this image to a url because deemed NSFW, click if you dare - love moderator"

2. Report of offensive post
BF: Delete the post without any notice
Good: Edit the post taking out the offensive part or the entire post with a moderator note "Please this was deemed in poor taste - love the moderator"

3. People *****ing and arguing
BF: Delete the thread (re: tomassini)
Good: Send PMs to some of the parties involved, leave some moderator notes on the thread itself, and if any parties continue to act in poor taste take appropriate action.

Notice, the good way, nice and transparent. No one feels like there is a magical overlord editing and deleting posts, everything is documented, people know if they did something wrong. Heck, I typed out a nice long post no swearing, just pointing out some facts and trying to get some of the mods to see it another way.. deleted.

Apparently some mod was too busy reading mein komph and diddling themselves instead of thinking of a proper resolution to the (debatable) problem. Thats right.. Goodwins law. I pulled out the nazi card.

Excellent ideas. Gradual intensity is far better received than sudden severe punishment.

Excellent ideas. Gradual intensity is far better received than sudden severe punishment.

Note moderator reply "blah blah blah thats what we do!"

I also believe in faceless moderators as in everyone posts as a regular user, and some of those users have access to the moderator_1, moderator_2 accounts. Granted thats not going to change here but think about it. Lets say a moderator is not acting as moderator and discussing something, then a questionable thing is posted and needs moderation action. Someone may get all conspiracy theory about it. Puts everyone in an awkward position.

Yes I know its a thankless job and yes I know no one is paid etc.. which is even more a reason why the moderators should be open minded and listening to the suggestions of the users rather then trying to heard cats.

In my experience, often, but not always, leaving a lot of "moderator notes" in threads when things were cleaned up only brings on cries of "over moderation", "what was changed!", "why was that removed", "Someone quick, tell me what was deleted!".. etc etc etc. It only adds to the problem. As donna said, we are volunteers. If we had a paid 8hr work day to do moderation, we could do lots of things. Someone want to pay me what I'm making at my job to moderate the forum? Usually posts are edited IF there are some meaningful content in them. But when the entire post is an inflammatory rant, what benefit is there to leaving it?

did ssfg just get locked?

did ssfg just get locked?

it got locked last night to a select group of crack commandos, i mean trouble makers. if you can't get into it, you were on the **** list. if you want to veiw it, you have to log out.

i mean i can see it, i can't post new threads and the closing ssfg thread got locked to me while i was reading it.

Maybe it is a full lock then? I got locked out about the same time.

i can view, but no posting. glad i'm not the only one because i was thinking a certain mod may have banned me, which would've been silly 'cause i di'n't do nothin'.

It was pretty clear Brian baited us all with the Closing thread.

Not so. But you couldn't resist, could you?

i can view, but no posting. glad i'm not the only one because i was thinking a certain mod may have banned me, which would've been silly 'cause i di'n't do nothin'.

It's not you.

Not so. But you couldn't resist, could you?

Wut, I repeat?

That contradicts, sir.

Not so. But you couldn't resist, could you?

Wut, I repeat again? (just in case you delete the 2nd one too)

Wut, I repeat?

That contradicts, sir.

It was not intended to be baiting, and I made it clear what the repercussions would be.

http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/annndiwil128405828022940211.jpg
[bfssfg] :D

It was not intended to be baiting, and I made it clear what the repercussions would be.

Regardless of your intentions, it was. I don't intend to **** in peoples cereal either, but you've had some duke this morning and now I'm paying for it.

It was not intended to be baiting, and I made it clear what the repercussions would be.

You stated there would be repercussions for individuals that made themselves known as trouble makers. (I obviously can't quote you because the thread is locked for me)

I don't think I was in any way shape or form causing trouble or even looking to cause trouble. I was simply trying to discuss a better solution than eliminating a large portion of our well informed senior users.

According to the statements you've made regarding the criteria for being banned, (which I think are unjust) I can see why some individuals were banned, however I don't see why myself or even Peed were banned? We did nothing wrong at all? You felt that we were "insulting you" just the same way that I felt you were insulting innocent members with your one lined responses.

We're not trying to start a revolt... we're trying to end one.

is it all locked now?

Peedtm... i was going to respond to your post but couldnt, yes i've ridden down the bench, my hill is steeper and sucks lots of balls without a brake... im suprised i havent crashed/died coming down it.

well brian, i haven't even posted in the thread or posted anything offensive in the forums, so what's the explanation for my limited access? asking questions? or is it a full lock?

well brian, i haven't even posted in the thread or posted anything offensive in the forums, so what's the explanation for my limited access? asking questions? or is it a full lock?

Basically, anyone who thinks that this place is poorly moderated and made their opinion known was banned.

Currently I've been told its a full lock. I'm working very hard to get it sorted. Hopefully we can IN FACT move forward.

Basically, anyone who thinks that this place is poorly moderated and made their opinion known was banned.

Not so. We'll wait until things calm down a bit, and ban you next week.

Not so. We'll wait until things calm down a bit, and ban you next week.

Won't be the first time, won't be the last.

Please remember to stay on topic folks :) .

East Hill

Completely on topic: Tell those of us who are locked out what we did wrong or reinstate us. Also, please state what disciplinary action will be taken against mods in the future when users' posts are edited so as to misrepresent the user's statement.

Completely on topic: Tell those of us who are locked out what we did wrong or reinstate us. Also, please state what disciplinary action will be taken against mods in the future when users' posts are edited so as to misrepresent the user's statement.

The members that cannot access SSFG are the ones locked out. They will tell you all about it in a month or so.

No idea what you're babbling about as far as mods editing your posts - it was probably something inappropriate.

The members that cannot access SSFG are the ones locked out. They will tell you all about it in a month or so.

No idea what you're babbling about as far as mods editing your posts - it was probably something inappropriate.

So I'm locked out, but I don't get to know why? How is that supposed to help me be a better citizen or whatever it is you all have in mind?

My edited post was nothing inappropriate.

Familiar?

What we learned tonight:

1. The mod flood strategy is real. Mods don't like a thread, they just show up in it and start BSing about inanities and talking to each other until everyone else gives up.
2. You can't post anything encouraging people to visit rival forums (though it seems like chifg, NYC fixed, etc... are tolerated)
3. Mods will edit your posts and make it look like you said things you didn't.
4. When you call out Brian for posting an obscene joke, he will delete the post to cover his tracks. That's ok, the internet remembers:

And what about any of that is inappropriate? Or does the truth just sting a little much?

Apparently posting derogatory pejoratives for vagina is acceptable. Inferring that a member might be a non-offensive everyday feminine hygiene product can get you banned.

Apparently posting derogatory pejoratives for vagina is acceptable. Inferring that a member might be a non-offensive everyday feminine hygiene product can get you banned.

There are a number of members who would prefer to see neither, actually :) . And, there are very few ways to infer that someone 'might' be a non-offensive everyday feminine hygiene product without being either derogatory or pejorative.

East Hill

I would be one of them. If we are going have a standard it needs to be applied to everyone from the senior board adviser on down to the jr. member that joined an hour ago.

And what about any of that is inappropriate? Or does the truth just sting a little much?

Why don't you just post something completely inappropriate, and get it over with?

I would be one of them. If we are going have a standard it needs to be applied to everyone from the senior board adviser on down to the jr. member that joined an hour ago.

I think that EivlEvo will enjoy knowing that you will be backing his decisions wholeheartedly!

Thank you for expressing your support :D .

East Hill

I think that EivlEvo will enjoy knowing that you will be backing his decisions wholeheartedly!

Thank you for expressing your support :D .

East Hill

By this standard, Brian should be banned from SSFG. Please let me know when this will be happening. Also, please let me know why I was banned and how long I'm out for.

Also still waiting for a yes/no on whether it is appropriate mod behavior to edit and misrepresent a user's post, and if so what the consequences will be.

By this standard, Brian should be banned from SSFG. Please let me know when this will be happening.

Never.

Also, please let me know why I was banned and how long I'm out for.

Go read your last ten or twenty posts.

Also still waiting for a yes/no on whether it is appropriate mod behavior to edit and misrepresent a user's post, and if so what the consequences will be.

Yes. Any post, any time. Since no one but you knows which post you're referring to, all I can tell you is that it must have had something inappropriate. If you don't know what's inappropriate, perhaps you shouldn't be posting at all.

Also still waiting for a yes/no on whether it is appropriate mod behavior to edit and misrepresent a user's post, and if so what the consequences will be.
If we only knew what post you are referring to and what you believe was changed, we could come up with an answer that explains what happened better. If you'd like to send me a PM with a link to the post in question, I'd be happy to look into it. I will be out of the house for several hours today, so I cannot promise an instant answer, though.