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I have a 2002 Cannondale Cyclocross bike, with 700x32 tires, Kenda "small block eight" type. I average anywhere from 14 to 16mph. How fast might I expect to go an a decent road bike? If I tweaked the Cyclocross for speed with thinner tires, how much closer to road bike speeds might I get?
Thanks,
Rocky
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You'll get close enough to road bike speed by swapping out the tires- suitable for all road applications unless you're really planning on racing competitively. My average speed spiked considerably when I swapped the 35c knobbies that came on my bike to 28c slicks.
you'll be pretty darn close. maybe a top flight road racer will be lighter, allow more aero position, different gearing, and different frame geometry will allow for a few mph but you'll be close enough to hang with non-racers. if you're with racers, they'll drop you like you're standing still.
A 'cross bike with 23mm slicks is not a few mph slower than your average road bike. Where exactly are you guys attributing this so-called loss of speed? The aerodynamics piece posted above me is silly. A 'cross bike isn't really inherently mor eupright than a road bike. All it takes is a stem change or flip to get the bars down very low. When in road mode my cross bike has the bar tops a good 4 inches below the top of my saddle.
Geometry differences? I'm not sure I could buy that a slightly longer chainstay will make you "a few mph slower."
Gearing: My cross bike has a 48 x 11 top gear. There are very few circumstances where it would be possible to spin that out at 110 rpms.
I ride with "racers" on my cross bike and may use it in a few road races this season, something I'm far from alone in doing. If I'm "dropped like I'm standing still" I doubt it will be the fault of the bike.
The differences between cross and road bikes are almost totally negligible. There are multiple racers around here who do crits on cross bikes with slicks, they seem to do alright. So does the Cat 3 guy on the old custom steel bike with a quill stem and 8-speed Dura Ace. I wouldn't expect these guys to hang on the pro peleton, but below a certain point, the bike is largely irrelevant.
Just set a new land-speed 'cross bike record on my commute this morning...;)
I was averaging 20-22 on the flats and moderate rises, and my CPU said 19.2 when I got to work (considering stops and starts, that ain't bad!) on a mostly flat, 18 mile commute.
This was on a Surly Crosscheck with 42x12-28 gearing, 25mm Bontrager Hardcases and 20 lbs. in my panniers.
It's the engine, not the ride.
Ok, that's your "land-speed" record, what is your water-speed record? Air-speed? If it's the engine, not the ride, then I can put you on anything of any weight/size with any tires and you will do 20-22mph, is that correct? I applaud you. Now, if we're through turning a simple question about me into you patting yourself on the back, would I go faster with your 25mm tires than my 32mms? No? Why not? Explain in terms of physics. I don't mean, will I go as fast as you, you clearly have quite an "engine", no doubt superior to mine. I mean, will I go faster than I am currently? Remember, this is about ME. (tongue in cheek mode).
-Rocky
Just set a new land-speed 'cross bike record on my commute this morning...;)
I was averaging 20-22 on the flats and moderate rises, and my CPU said 19.2 when I got to work (considering stops and starts, that ain't bad!) on a mostly flat, 18 mile commute.
This was on a Surly Crosscheck with 42x12-28 gearing, 25mm Bontrager Hardcases and 20 lbs. in my panniers.
It's the engine, not the ride.
I had a '99 Specialized Allez Sport road bike. Full aluminum, full Ultegra, Mavic CXP33 rims w/Ultegra hubs. When that died in a car wreck (which I luckily only got some scrapes and a sprained shoulder) I replaced it with a Fuji Cross.
Riding the exact same roads on the Fuji with 700x23 tires I experienced no change in my average speeds. However, the Specialized had the ability to accelerate quicker and from a higher speed than the Fuji. For example if I'm doing 22 mph on the Fuji it will take some effort to bring it up to 26 for a sprint. That same jump on the Allez could be done in just a couple of pedal rotations. There are also a couple of spots on my regular rides where I will do some short sprints to gain momentum before a steep hill. On the Fuji, I top out around 24-25 mph whereas I was hitting 27-28 on the Allez.
On the other hand, once I'm at a given speed I didn't find it any more difficult to maintain on the Fuji than I did on the Allez.
I know the above is all subjective, but having ridden the same roads for four years on the Allez and now five years on the Fuji I think there is some level of objectivity with it.
And so this post doesn't sound like it's all about ME :-), I've never done the same riding when I have Ritchey Crossmax 32 tires on the Fuji. Whenever I have those tires on I end up on dirt or gravel trails so I can't compare apples to apples.
just throw on your skinny tires and consider larger gears in the front. between the two of those, i've noticed drastic increases in speed performance on my cross bike, and i still have the ablity to put my cross tires back on to ride differently whenever.
Thanks, rbiked...I consider the question answered, and will do as you suggest!
-Rocky
Ok, that's your "land-speed" record, what is your water-speed record? Air-speed? If it's the engine, not the ride, then I can put you on anything of any weight/size with any tires and you will do 20-22mph, is that correct? I applaud you. Now, if we're through turning a simple question about me into you patting yourself on the back, would I go faster with your 25mm tires than my 32mms? No? Why not? Explain in terms of physics. I don't mean, will I go as fast as you, you clearly have quite an "engine", no doubt superior to mine. I mean, will I go faster than I am currently? Remember, this is about ME. (tongue in cheek mode).
-Rocky
Tongue in cheek mode? More like dick bag mode.
I'm not a fast rider...what I was trying to show is that a 'cross bike can easily do the speeds of rec. riders.
FWIW, everybody thinks skinnier tires are faster, but they're actually not. In terms of rolling resistance wider is better. Knobby isn't good, but slick 32 vs. slick 25 the 32 has less rolling resistance.
At about 19 mph air drag becomes a consideration, and at that point the 25s start creeping up in total resistance vs. the 32. It's around 22mph that the 25 is a little quicker. Note that your typical Tour de France pros are probably going even faster than that, on average.
The other factor to consider is tire pressure. You can get more pressure into a narrow tire, and my above explanation of rolling resistance depends on equal tire pressure between wide and narrow tires. Pumping my 32s up to 125 PSI is asking for trouble, whereas it's expected on my 25s.
Wider tires also perform better on bumpy lanes...because they aren't jarred UP in the y direction as much when they hit a crack...they tend to fill it and keep all except a little momentum in the x plane.
There has been much said on this by Peter White, Sheldon Brown and many others.
At the least go slick. If you like narrow then fine. I have 25s on mine because I'm using my roadie wheelset, and 25 maxed out the space on that frame, and I was too lazy to take the 32s off of my SS wheelset and put them on. Will be doing it this weekend, though.
I pump my 32s up to about 105 (rated for 95) and feel like I'm pretty close to the neighborhood of how fast I go on my 25s, maybe a hair slower. My sentiment about it is that it's due to flex in the casing. It's more rubber to flex around and lose power input in, just like a flexy frame. The 25s are small and tight, so every pedal stroke is heard by the tire and reflected in the output. But, that's just my opinion, and not something I've heard from others before.
Good luck, dick bag.
just throw on your skinny tires and consider larger gears in the front. between the two of those, i've noticed drastic increases in speed performance on my cross bike, and i still have the ablity to put my cross tires back on to ride differently whenever.
I do notice a difference when I hop from my cross racer with slicks to a road bike of equal equipment/quality. Both bikes are built for a very specific purpose. That said, I do many fast group rides on my CX bike without giving up much by way of performance.
Ouch. Dick bag? Now, what is a dick bag? Something to keep dicks in? Oh, I get it, it's a way to insult someone and not get censored due to cuss words. You're one smart cookie! And thanks for the input about slicks, although, and I quote, it's the engine, not the ride. Based on your two posts, I can surmise you are still an adolescent, although a smart one! (Name-calling and chest pounding are both signs of adolescence. You'll grow out of it. Or not.) You're probably 20-25 yrs old. I'm 48. I will proceed as such, and so will you. For now. Re-read this thread when you are 48, and you will know exactly what I am saying. You will chuckle at yourself, as I am chuckling now. Simple question, will I go faster, gets your response, _I_ can do 20-22mph.
Ouch. Dick bag? Now, what is a dick bag? Something to keep dicks in? Oh, I get it, it's a way to insult someone and not get censored due to cuss words. You're one smart cookie! And thanks for the input about slicks, although, and I quote, it's the engine, not the ride. Based on your two posts, I can surmise you are still an adolescent, although a smart one! (Name-calling and chest pounding are both signs of adolescence. You'll grow out of it. Or not.) You're probably 20-25 yrs old. I'm 48. I will proceed as such, and so will you. For now. Re-read this thread when you are 48, and you will know exactly what I am saying. You will chuckle at yourself, as I am chuckling now. Simple question, will I go faster, gets your response, _I_ can do 20-22mph.
BTW, I love flame wars...
I can send you pics of my kid if you want ;)
Oh, and dick bag had nothing to do with being censored. I just felt like calling you a dick bag. I dunno what it is, you figger it out.
You simple question was "If I tweaked the Cyclocross for speed with thinner tires, how much closer to road bike speeds might I get?"
So, I responded with my experience...that I had 25s on and was achieving road speeds.
No chest thumping. Obviously YOU're impressed by 20-22mph, but most of my roadie friends would laugh at that.
48, huh? Well, thanks for saying I'm smart for my age, because you're really fuggin' dumb for yours. Dick bag.
I don't love flame wars. For reasons aforementioned, you may not understand how revealing that statement is- you love flame wars. Wow. You love to be at odds with and have arguments with others, to put them down? Guess what that is indicative of? I won't say. What I love, is to ask a simple question and to get earnest answers, of which I count 7 or 8 in this thread, parts of your 2nd post included. In parts, you applied yourself to my question in that post, and that info was useful. Your mph was not, nor the weight you were carrying. 'Nuff said, and I apologize to the group for my non-bicycle-related content. I should stop, and I am stopping. Take your last shot, if you wish...you will then "win" this "flame war". Chuckle.
Just set a new land-speed 'cross bike record on my commute this morning...;)
I was averaging 20-22 on the flats and moderate rises, and my CPU said 19.2 when I got to work (considering stops and starts, that ain't bad!) on a mostly flat, 18 mile commute.
This was on a Surly Crosscheck with 42x12-28 gearing, 25mm Bontrager Hardcases and 20 lbs. in my panniers.
It's the engine, not the ride.
Hey, I have a Surly Crosscheck and also set a record this morning (0 wind, 19mph average speed for 14 miles).
Let's declare it "Surly Crosscheck Day."
As far as a cross bike being more "upright," right now my Surly has about 1 1/2 inches of drop between the saddle and the bars. That's with about 2" of spacers and a few degrees of rise in the stem.
If I got a 17 degree stem, flipped it down, and put the spacers on top, I'd probably have about 4" of drop.
I don't love flame wars. For reasons aforementioned, you may not understand how revealing that statement is- you love flame wars. Wow. You love to be at odds with and have arguments with others, to put them down? Guess what that is indicative of? I won't say. What I love, is to ask a simple question and to get earnest answers, of which I count 7 or 8 in this thread, parts of your 2nd post included. In parts, you applied yourself to my question in that post, and that info was useful. Your mph was not, nor the weight you were carrying. 'Nuff said, and I apologize to the group for my non-bicycle-related content. I should stop, and I am stopping. Take your last shot, if you wish...you will then "win" this "flame war". Chuckle.
I'm into flame-wars for the journey, not the end. The art of arguing, the elegance of novel paths of logic, the idea that there is no one truth, no end all be all, just constant shifting of focus.
You're still a dick bag.
MrCjolsen,
Nice one! Feels good to ride with speeds and times the roadies post, but you do it on a steel 'cross bike and commuting gear, eh?
Surly Crosscheck day it is.
The art of arguing, the elegance of novel paths of logic, the idea that there is no one truth, no end all be all, just constant shifting of focus.
The art of sentence fragments?
The art of sentence fragments?
I can also display the finest skill at run on sentences that you ever did see, will see, could see because it's something I've practiced on the interwebz and also in my daily life as I work in a profession that allows me to talk endlessly about things that no one really cares about just like nobody really cares about this terribly long, run-on sentence with grammatical errors everywhere and boring subject matter, but the skill is there, which is all that matters because girls wanna date guys with skills.
Tire info (http://www.torelli.com/tech/tires.shtml) that makes sense.
rocky im not saying youre wrong but just some advice if you get a response that you dislike, (im not saying youre wrong either climbhoser) you should probably just ignore it and not respond in a way that would come off as inappreciative. He just posted some personal information and you kind of jumped at him. im not an expert cyclist or anything and i am only 19 but i do participate in a number of forums and i hate it when people argue over the net. you seem like you do too, so i hope you dont take this the wrong way.
rocky im not saying youre wrong but just some advice if you get a response that you dislike, (im not saying youre wrong either climbhoser) you should probably just ignore it and not respond in a way that would come off as inappreciative. He just posted some personal information and you kind of jumped at him. im not an expert cyclist or anything and i am only 19 but i do participate in a number of forums and i hate it when people argue over the net. you seem like you do too, so i hope you dont take this the wrong way.
I accept your criticism. If I had it to do over, I would and should have ignored the post, if I didn't appreciate it. There is signal out there, and there is noise. I should ignore noise and move on. I wasn't upset in the least and found it humorous, as indicated. I also bailed out as soon as I knew there was no point in continuing.
As a partial update to the original question, I was able to test ride a 58cm Leader 730R that I found on Craigslist yesterday, and while it was only a one hour ride, I did average 18 mph, much faster I've ever achieved on my Cyclocross. I can say with assuredness, what should be obvious anyway: It is the rider, AND it is the ride. If I don't trade my 'cross for the Leader, then I will try new tires as per this thread. I'm curious to find the true answer, how much faster could I go with my existing bike.
i went on the same route four times this week, the first and fourth time were done using a cyclocross tire that was about 35c i think.. the second and third trips were done using a soft compound road tire, 23c. i found that i was noticeable faster and averaged faster speeds, including improved uphill climbs. the route i tested on was mostly entirely on hills on smooth pavement, and maybe one short bit of flat land.... so yes, road tires will make you faster.
outside of that route and on entirely level pavement, i've found that i can hit 30+mph with ease durings sprints with the road tires and a larger gear on the front.. zoom zoom!
Remember, crank length and frame material can also have lots more to do with it than just the geometry.
many roadies use shorter cranks because they're more conducive to spinning, while many 'crossers go longer for the leverage.
If your 'cross frame is steel then you might have more frame flex, which would result in power loss, than a really stiff, aluminum one. When I get on my roadbike I feel downright twitchy, and it feels like every pedal stroke is recognized through the frame. I can't achieve much higher speeds on it than on a 'cross with appropriate tires, but I can accelerate much faster, much much much faster.
And as for the above...some people just need to lighten up, man.
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