Brian
05-01-08, 08:35 AM
as usual, brian is not seeing both sides of the argument; he's still got his "i was right, you were wrong, i'm in charge" glasses on.
sad.
What part am I missing?
sad.
What part am I missing?
View Full Version : Okay this is stupid.
NitroPye
05-01-08, 08:40 AM
as usual, brian is not seeing both sides of the argument; he's still got his "i was right, you were wrong, i'm in charge" glasses on.
sad.
Very. Its a shame really.
sad.
Very. Its a shame really.
metaljim
05-01-08, 08:44 AM
What part am I missing?
brian, seriously, read ANYthing we have been complaining about. look at both sides of the debate. look back through some threads that got black holed, and read your posts: you're just as guilty of being off-topic, crude, argumentative, and foolish as you say we were being.
i'm not gonna have this argument anymore. there is a reason we feel slighted, and angry over the way you handled things. you can either try and see that, or stay blind.
brian, seriously, read ANYthing we have been complaining about. look at both sides of the debate. look back through some threads that got black holed, and read your posts: you're just as guilty of being off-topic, crude, argumentative, and foolish as you say we were being.
i'm not gonna have this argument anymore. there is a reason we feel slighted, and angry over the way you handled things. you can either try and see that, or stay blind.
Brian
05-01-08, 08:45 AM
You're both ******bags.
Do comments like that ring any bells?
Do comments like that ring any bells?
metaljim
05-01-08, 08:51 AM
You're both ******bags.
Do comments like that ring any bells?
yeah, it does. it's your round-about way of calling someone out and being a jerk, but trying to pass it off as something else.
Do comments like that ring any bells?
yeah, it does. it's your round-about way of calling someone out and being a jerk, but trying to pass it off as something else.
timmyquest
05-01-08, 08:58 AM
i saiiiid, i know i'm a ******bag
Brian
05-01-08, 09:00 AM
yeah, it does. it's your round-about way of calling someone out and being a jerk, but trying to pass it off as something else.
No, it's a fairly common word that gets tossed about in SSFG, but is totally inappropriate for the forums. An example of the kind of behavior no one here wants to cop to. The biggest laugh I get is that for each complaint about too much moderation, someone else wants to know why Josh, Kemmer, or Blicks don't seem to be around.
Do the math.
No, it's a fairly common word that gets tossed about in SSFG, but is totally inappropriate for the forums. An example of the kind of behavior no one here wants to cop to. The biggest laugh I get is that for each complaint about too much moderation, someone else wants to know why Josh, Kemmer, or Blicks don't seem to be around.
Do the math.
NitroPye
05-01-08, 09:01 AM
"I'm dbag von ahole and I drink watermelon mohitos all summer long, because they are just like me. ****ing delicious"
NitroPye
05-01-08, 09:03 AM
The biggest laugh I get is that for each complaint about too much moderation, someone else wants to know why Josh, Kemmer, or Blicks don't seem to be around.
Do the math.
No don't want to. Tell me. Is it because they are busy dropping the ban hammer? Or maybe people ask where they are because they are liked or at least they get it.
Do the math.
No don't want to. Tell me. Is it because they are busy dropping the ban hammer? Or maybe people ask where they are because they are liked or at least they get it.
Brian
05-01-08, 09:05 AM
No don't want to. Tell me. Is it because they are busy dropping the ban hammer? Or maybe people ask where they are because they are liked or at least they get it.
No one wants to moderate SSFG.
No one wants to moderate SSFG.
NitroPye
05-01-08, 09:09 AM
No one wants to moderate SSFG.
Clearly you didn't ask deathhare yet.
Clearly you didn't ask deathhare yet.
Brian
05-01-08, 09:10 AM
Clearly you didn't ask deathhare yet.
Correct.
Correct.
Tom Stormcrowe
05-01-08, 09:12 AM
Does the term fox in the henhouse mean anything to you?
Clearly you didn't ask deathhare yet.
Clearly you didn't ask deathhare yet.
timmyquest
05-01-08, 09:19 AM
No, it's a fairly common word that gets tossed about in SSFG, but is totally inappropriate for the forums. An example of the kind of behavior no one here wants to cop to. The biggest laugh I get is that for each complaint about too much moderation, someone else wants to know why Josh, Kemmer, or Blicks don't seem to be around.
Do the math.
What if one were asking the best way to clean...themselves?
Do the math.
What if one were asking the best way to clean...themselves?
NitroPye
05-01-08, 09:19 AM
Does the term fox in the henhouse mean anything to you?
I'm glad you recognize a joke ;)
I'm glad you recognize a joke ;)
timmyquest
05-01-08, 09:20 AM
No one wants to moderate SSFG.
OOO OOO
PICK ME!
http://www.infed.org/images/scenes/pick-me.jpg
OOO OOO
PICK ME!
http://www.infed.org/images/scenes/pick-me.jpg
Brian
05-01-08, 09:22 AM
What if one were asking the best way to clean...themselves?
That's not likely on here now, is it?
That's not likely on here now, is it?
timmyquest
05-01-08, 09:23 AM
That's not likely on here now, is it?
But i mean...if it was...?
But i mean...if it was...?
Brian
05-01-08, 09:27 AM
But i mean...if it was...?
It's not an appropriate name to be calling people on the internet.
It's not an appropriate name to be calling people on the internet.
timmyquest
05-01-08, 09:28 AM
It's not an appropriate name to be calling people on the internet.
Yeah but...
Yeah but...
Tom Stormcrowe
05-01-08, 09:31 AM
Tim, are you trying to arrange for a vacation for finals? All you have to do is ask. ;)
Yeah but...
Yeah but...
cuda2k
05-01-08, 09:34 AM
timmy, no. just... no. what ever thought you have next... no. ;)
glad to see everyone is blaming the mods still. At least there is some consistancy. seriously, do you find nothing even remotely inapproprate with what gets posted on a regular basis in SSFG? the name calling, the ridiculing of new members, the off topic randomness posted in thread asking for help or advise (before or after the asked for advice is even given), etc etc, the list could go on. Last I checked all these things were (and still are) against the commuity guidelines. Don't remember a disclaimer at the top making certain forums excempt from them. Or did I miss something?
glad to see everyone is blaming the mods still. At least there is some consistancy. seriously, do you find nothing even remotely inapproprate with what gets posted on a regular basis in SSFG? the name calling, the ridiculing of new members, the off topic randomness posted in thread asking for help or advise (before or after the asked for advice is even given), etc etc, the list could go on. Last I checked all these things were (and still are) against the commuity guidelines. Don't remember a disclaimer at the top making certain forums excempt from them. Or did I miss something?
metaljim
05-01-08, 09:35 AM
Tim, are you trying to arrange for a vacation for finals? All you have to do is ask. ;)
and that is what i hate. tom, i know you're just making a light joke, but this constant threat of BANNINATION is what pissed me off the most. if you're gonna do, THEN DO IT! give a warning, give a second warning, THEN JUST BAN.
tom, not directed at you personally.
and that is what i hate. tom, i know you're just making a light joke, but this constant threat of BANNINATION is what pissed me off the most. if you're gonna do, THEN DO IT! give a warning, give a second warning, THEN JUST BAN.
tom, not directed at you personally.
metaljim
05-01-08, 09:38 AM
timmy, no. just... no. what ever thought you have next... no. ;)
glad to see everyone is blaming the mods still. At least there is some consistancy. seriously, do you find nothing even remotely inapproprate with what gets posted on a regular basis in SSFG? the name calling, the ridiculing of new members, the off topic randomness posted in thread asking for help or advise (before or after the asked for advice is even given), etc etc, the list could go on. Last I checked all these things were (and still are) against the commuity guidelines. Don't remember a disclaimer at the top making certain forums excempt from them. Or did I miss something?
i don't blame the mods entirely. but is off topic randomness really a crime? is making fun of each other SERIOUS BUSINESS? NO! anyone who even glanced at BFSSFG could get a read on how we ran the place, but that wasn't kosher to some.
glad to see everyone is blaming the mods still. At least there is some consistancy. seriously, do you find nothing even remotely inapproprate with what gets posted on a regular basis in SSFG? the name calling, the ridiculing of new members, the off topic randomness posted in thread asking for help or advise (before or after the asked for advice is even given), etc etc, the list could go on. Last I checked all these things were (and still are) against the commuity guidelines. Don't remember a disclaimer at the top making certain forums excempt from them. Or did I miss something?
i don't blame the mods entirely. but is off topic randomness really a crime? is making fun of each other SERIOUS BUSINESS? NO! anyone who even glanced at BFSSFG could get a read on how we ran the place, but that wasn't kosher to some.
Tom Stormcrowe
05-01-08, 09:39 AM
Jim, Tim and I are old friends. ;) He knows what I'm talking about, as would everyone in P&R. FWIW, I try VERY hard not to use the ban stick. I also try very hard to use persuasion rather than a club.
and that is what i hate. tom, i know you're just making a light joke, but this constant threat of BANNINATION is what pissed me off the most. if you're gonna do, THEN DO IT! give a warning, give a second warning, THEN JUST BAN.
tom, not directed at you personally.
and that is what i hate. tom, i know you're just making a light joke, but this constant threat of BANNINATION is what pissed me off the most. if you're gonna do, THEN DO IT! give a warning, give a second warning, THEN JUST BAN.
tom, not directed at you personally.
metaljim
05-01-08, 09:40 AM
Jim, Tim and I are old friends. ;) He knows what I'm talking about, as would everyone in P&R.
i figured as much, so i thought you were making a joke.
eh, i'm done.
i figured as much, so i thought you were making a joke.
eh, i'm done.
Brian
05-01-08, 09:42 AM
and that is what i hate. tom, i know you're just making a light joke, but this constant threat of BANNINATION is what pissed me off the most. if you're gonna do, THEN DO IT! give a warning, give a second warning, THEN JUST BAN.
tom, not directed at you personally.
Tom doesn't like to ban, and I even asked him to rescind a ban yesterday. Outright banning is rarely the best solution.
tom, not directed at you personally.
Tom doesn't like to ban, and I even asked him to rescind a ban yesterday. Outright banning is rarely the best solution.
Tom Stormcrowe
05-01-08, 09:46 AM
BY the way, P&R has become a virtual model forum. It's still fun, and we still have some cutups going on, but we don't rip each others guts out. Yeah, we get some lively debate going, and sometimes tempers fray, but the folks in there have learned when to back away from a topic if it's getting to hot.
It's much more fun actually thinking rather than mindless BS.
It's much more fun actually thinking rather than mindless BS.
cuda2k
05-01-08, 09:46 AM
i don't blame the mods entirely. but is off topic randomness really a crime? is making fun of each other SERIOUS BUSINESS? NO! anyone who even glanced at BFSSFG could get a read on how we ran the place, but that wasn't kosher to some.
To an extent, to a limit, it's not a crime. But when it is taken to the extreme, when the line between reasonable leeway and complete lack of order is crossed, then something has to be said and done. No one is going to have the same opinion on where that line is. Obviously some regulars in SSFG disagree with the mods. Others have very recently stated that the mods are not doing nearly enough. The problem is really when you start joking between each other, people you know, and then other people see and read it and take it wrong. JUST LIKE, what just happened, in this very thread, not 2 or three posts up when Tom joked with Timmy. Those two know what was meant, but you didn't. It's the same thing in SSFG, all day long. A new member, a member who doesn't frequent there, a mod, anyone outside the "core" of the SSFG regulars goes in there and they see it differently. I'm sorry if some of the regulars in there have come to think they "own" it and have the "right" to do as they want. The mods want to give the regulars some latitude to have fun, but it just goes too far too often. And it's been that way for a while.
To an extent, to a limit, it's not a crime. But when it is taken to the extreme, when the line between reasonable leeway and complete lack of order is crossed, then something has to be said and done. No one is going to have the same opinion on where that line is. Obviously some regulars in SSFG disagree with the mods. Others have very recently stated that the mods are not doing nearly enough. The problem is really when you start joking between each other, people you know, and then other people see and read it and take it wrong. JUST LIKE, what just happened, in this very thread, not 2 or three posts up when Tom joked with Timmy. Those two know what was meant, but you didn't. It's the same thing in SSFG, all day long. A new member, a member who doesn't frequent there, a mod, anyone outside the "core" of the SSFG regulars goes in there and they see it differently. I'm sorry if some of the regulars in there have come to think they "own" it and have the "right" to do as they want. The mods want to give the regulars some latitude to have fun, but it just goes too far too often. And it's been that way for a while.
timmyquest
05-01-08, 09:49 AM
Tim, are you trying to arrange for a vacation for finals? All you have to do is ask. ;)
:lol:
Hey, i'm just trying to keep this thread foo-relevant.
:lol:
Hey, i'm just trying to keep this thread foo-relevant.
timmyquest
05-01-08, 09:52 AM
and that is what i hate. tom, i know you're just making a light joke, but this constant threat of BANNINATION is what pissed me off the most. if you're gonna do, THEN DO IT! give a warning, give a second warning, THEN JUST BAN.
tom, not directed at you personally.
Lighten the hell up.
I gots me 2 strikes already, 3rd one is out. I think thats a fair system (though, still...that 2nd one was boh-GUS.
tom, not directed at you personally.
Lighten the hell up.
I gots me 2 strikes already, 3rd one is out. I think thats a fair system (though, still...that 2nd one was boh-GUS.
NitroPye
05-01-08, 09:56 AM
Strikes and warnings are fine. I know myself, I didn't get a single warning or strike or whatnot before banneramadingdong
timmyquest
05-01-08, 09:58 AM
I guess its kind of like murder and speeding tickets.
frankstoneline
05-01-08, 12:40 PM
I believe in a PM I requested a blacklist be established so we could know who all you kicked out for a month. That said, I'm curious as to why I can't access, I havent ever been given a warning or anything of the sort that I know of.
Fill a brother in.
Fill a brother in.
cuda2k
05-01-08, 12:50 PM
I believe in a PM I requested a blacklist be established so we could know who all you kicked out for a month. That said, I'm curious as to why I can't access, I havent ever been given a warning or anything of the sort that I know of.
Fill a brother in.
I'll see what I can find out for you. I also know brian is about, but he's likely fielding lots of PMs. If you ask nicely, he'll likely be willing to work with you.
Fill a brother in.
I'll see what I can find out for you. I also know brian is about, but he's likely fielding lots of PMs. If you ask nicely, he'll likely be willing to work with you.
Brian
05-01-08, 01:14 PM
I believe in a PM I requested a blacklist be established so we could know who all you kicked out for a month. That said, I'm curious as to why I can't access, I havent ever been given a warning or anything of the sort that I know of.
Fill a brother in.
PM sent.
Fill a brother in.
PM sent.
NitroPye
05-01-08, 01:52 PM
I believe in a PM I requested a blacklist be established so we could know who all you kicked out for a month. That said, I'm curious as to why I can't access, I havent ever been given a warning or anything of the sort that I know of.
Fill a brother in.
Ditto, I never once got a warning or infraction. Hell even my thread called "What makes BFSSFG awesome" got deleted. It was a poll with options like "the knowledge" "the bike porn pictures" etc...
If I did something wrong, tell me. You never ONCE let me know I was in the wrong. I'm not the only one in this predicament. You can't expect anyone to change their behavior or at least rethink it if they are unaware of what they did wrong.
Its kinda disheartening. This may just be the internet, but there are a lot of posters here I talk to on a daily basis across the world from me. All of a sudden seeing them drop off can be like "ooh man.. I hope <insert some cooooooooool dudes here> didn't get some ulock justice karma"
Basically I was part of a community, someone who for all practical purposes is foreign to that particular community came came in said "alright you guys can't hang out anymore" and then left. Very frustrating. Very very frustrating.
Fill a brother in.
Ditto, I never once got a warning or infraction. Hell even my thread called "What makes BFSSFG awesome" got deleted. It was a poll with options like "the knowledge" "the bike porn pictures" etc...
If I did something wrong, tell me. You never ONCE let me know I was in the wrong. I'm not the only one in this predicament. You can't expect anyone to change their behavior or at least rethink it if they are unaware of what they did wrong.
Its kinda disheartening. This may just be the internet, but there are a lot of posters here I talk to on a daily basis across the world from me. All of a sudden seeing them drop off can be like "ooh man.. I hope <insert some cooooooooool dudes here> didn't get some ulock justice karma"
Basically I was part of a community, someone who for all practical purposes is foreign to that particular community came came in said "alright you guys can't hang out anymore" and then left. Very frustrating. Very very frustrating.
metaljim
05-01-08, 02:16 PM
Ditto, I never once got a warning or infraction. Hell even my thread called "What makes BFSSFG awesome" got deleted. It was a poll with options like "the knowledge" "the bike porn pictures" etc...
If I did something wrong, tell me. You never ONCE let me know I was in the wrong. I'm not the only one in this predicament. You can't expect anyone to change their behavior or at least rethink it if they are unaware of what they did wrong.
Its kinda disheartening. This may just be the internet, but there are a lot of posters here I talk to on a daily basis across the world from me. All of a sudden seeing them drop off can be like "ooh man.. I hope <insert some cooooooooool dudes here> didn't get some ulock justice karma"
Basically I was part of a community, someone who for all practical purposes is foreign to that particular community came came in said "alright you guys can't hang out anymore" and then left. Very frustrating. Very very frustrating.
yup.
If I did something wrong, tell me. You never ONCE let me know I was in the wrong. I'm not the only one in this predicament. You can't expect anyone to change their behavior or at least rethink it if they are unaware of what they did wrong.
Its kinda disheartening. This may just be the internet, but there are a lot of posters here I talk to on a daily basis across the world from me. All of a sudden seeing them drop off can be like "ooh man.. I hope <insert some cooooooooool dudes here> didn't get some ulock justice karma"
Basically I was part of a community, someone who for all practical purposes is foreign to that particular community came came in said "alright you guys can't hang out anymore" and then left. Very frustrating. Very very frustrating.
yup.
Brian
05-01-08, 02:31 PM
If I did something wrong, tell me. You never ONCE let me know I was in the wrong.
You've read the guidelines, and you still don't know right from wrong?
You've read the guidelines, and you still don't know right from wrong?
NitroPye
05-01-08, 02:35 PM
You've read the guidelines, and you still don't know right from wrong?
Well what in my 1,500 posts got me in trouble? Let me know because maybe I missed something.
Seems only fair. Everyone else gets infractions and warnings. I don't so much as get a PM "hey, blah blah blah cool it on the language"
Well what in my 1,500 posts got me in trouble? Let me know because maybe I missed something.
Seems only fair. Everyone else gets infractions and warnings. I don't so much as get a PM "hey, blah blah blah cool it on the language"
Catweazle
05-01-08, 03:21 PM
as usual, brian is not seeing both sides of the argument; he's still got his "i was right, you were wrong, i'm in charge" glasses on.
sad.
What part am I missing?
As mentioned in the related thread in SSFG I'm an unbiased older bloke who enjoys his participation on this board. I felt quite uncomfortable about my decision to add comment there, and when I decided to do so I intended this post (http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=6619152&postcount=211) to be my only comment on the matter. Seeing this thread appear in its correct and appropriate forum section is a positive step forward. But the above comments motivate me to add further constructive comment, and I sincerely hope that any criticisms contained in it are viewed as the genuine criticisms that they are of the overall process of discussing, planning and implementing what have been identified as necessary emergency interventions. They are not intended to be criticisms of any specific member of the supervisory team here, and are directed at the entire supervisory team.
It was rather evident that recent intervention in A&s/VC was warranted, and had obviously and sadly been agonised over and put off for far too long. I haven't read the SSFG section anywhere near as extensively, but what I'm seeing now make it look very likely that the situation there has been even worse. Self-regulation of forums works up to a point, but when it fails intervention is an unavoidable necessity. But there are ways and ways to achieve that.
What was 'missed'?
* The understanding that the time for decisive action is not the time for a curt, dismissive posting styles coming from supervisors who seemingly attempt to make light of the situation. That it's not the time for open forum to and froing of debate about the matter, but rather the time for firm, clearly explanatory Announcement posting.
* The understanding that the occasional decisive interventions which become necessary here indicate the need for clearer guidelines of participation to be made available, which go into more detail regarding the principles applied to determing unnacceptable posting behaviour here and which do not attempt to become a prohibitively restrictive (and thus less useful) deliniation of specific 'limits' of post content acceptability. It is far better to clearly outline the spirit of participation which is deemed acceptable, and an explanation of the principles and processes in place to be used as a guide to assessing content posted in light of that.
* The commitment to ensure interventions are undertaken before activity escalates to a level of severe problem.
No one wants to moderate SSFG.
That's a sad thing to see said, and a clear indication that the processes in place and the forward planning undertaken is not meeting the needs of the board. Like it or not it's a clear admission that the site owners/supervisors lack the capacity to adequately address the administration and supervision of the board in its entirety, and it's the factor which must necessarily bear the primary weight of responsibility for problems which have followed.
You've read the guidelines, and you still don't know right from wrong?
As mentioned above, the guidelines in place are next to useless. They encompass fine ideals and principles, but as they stand they read as an initial draft of concept rather than as a comprehensive, finished and polished product.
As well as falling short of what is required to adequately explain the spirit of participation expected they provide no explanation of processes in place for assessing breaches, and no indication of the processes to be followed when querying or disputing decisions and interventions, outlining and explaining penalties which may be imposed, or anything else of the sort. Little wonder that disputes here can escalate, considering those omissions.
In general, as an onlooker to this, I'd have to assess it as a debacle which has been conducted in rather undignified fashion. The nature of the intervention itself seems fair and fine, and seems to have resulted from adequate considered behind the scenes discussion. But it seems to be an intervention which has been too slow in arriving, and for which the implementation has been somewhat poorly handled.
I'm not, by the way, in any way trying to 'excuse' the often childish and combatitive complaint about intervention posted by quite a few members by making these comments. I'm merely attempting to constructively point out that there are structural factors at play, which serve to help ensure those childish, combatitive comments are forthcoming. Whilst those structural issues remain unaddressed this board remains at risk of an escalating downward spiral into more and more problems. It remains less likely to productively grow and move forward.
I'm sincerely sorry, by the way, if this post appears a bit pompous and/or overbearing. That's a shortcoming of my writing capabilities which appears in 'first drafts' of stuff I write when I'm trying to tread carefully in sensitive surrounds. I could 'fix' that with a review and rewrite, but I'm not gonna spend the time doing that for what is simply a forum post which will quite likely be skimmed over or overlooked by most thread participants :)
sad.
What part am I missing?
As mentioned in the related thread in SSFG I'm an unbiased older bloke who enjoys his participation on this board. I felt quite uncomfortable about my decision to add comment there, and when I decided to do so I intended this post (http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=6619152&postcount=211) to be my only comment on the matter. Seeing this thread appear in its correct and appropriate forum section is a positive step forward. But the above comments motivate me to add further constructive comment, and I sincerely hope that any criticisms contained in it are viewed as the genuine criticisms that they are of the overall process of discussing, planning and implementing what have been identified as necessary emergency interventions. They are not intended to be criticisms of any specific member of the supervisory team here, and are directed at the entire supervisory team.
It was rather evident that recent intervention in A&s/VC was warranted, and had obviously and sadly been agonised over and put off for far too long. I haven't read the SSFG section anywhere near as extensively, but what I'm seeing now make it look very likely that the situation there has been even worse. Self-regulation of forums works up to a point, but when it fails intervention is an unavoidable necessity. But there are ways and ways to achieve that.
What was 'missed'?
* The understanding that the time for decisive action is not the time for a curt, dismissive posting styles coming from supervisors who seemingly attempt to make light of the situation. That it's not the time for open forum to and froing of debate about the matter, but rather the time for firm, clearly explanatory Announcement posting.
* The understanding that the occasional decisive interventions which become necessary here indicate the need for clearer guidelines of participation to be made available, which go into more detail regarding the principles applied to determing unnacceptable posting behaviour here and which do not attempt to become a prohibitively restrictive (and thus less useful) deliniation of specific 'limits' of post content acceptability. It is far better to clearly outline the spirit of participation which is deemed acceptable, and an explanation of the principles and processes in place to be used as a guide to assessing content posted in light of that.
* The commitment to ensure interventions are undertaken before activity escalates to a level of severe problem.
No one wants to moderate SSFG.
That's a sad thing to see said, and a clear indication that the processes in place and the forward planning undertaken is not meeting the needs of the board. Like it or not it's a clear admission that the site owners/supervisors lack the capacity to adequately address the administration and supervision of the board in its entirety, and it's the factor which must necessarily bear the primary weight of responsibility for problems which have followed.
You've read the guidelines, and you still don't know right from wrong?
As mentioned above, the guidelines in place are next to useless. They encompass fine ideals and principles, but as they stand they read as an initial draft of concept rather than as a comprehensive, finished and polished product.
As well as falling short of what is required to adequately explain the spirit of participation expected they provide no explanation of processes in place for assessing breaches, and no indication of the processes to be followed when querying or disputing decisions and interventions, outlining and explaining penalties which may be imposed, or anything else of the sort. Little wonder that disputes here can escalate, considering those omissions.
In general, as an onlooker to this, I'd have to assess it as a debacle which has been conducted in rather undignified fashion. The nature of the intervention itself seems fair and fine, and seems to have resulted from adequate considered behind the scenes discussion. But it seems to be an intervention which has been too slow in arriving, and for which the implementation has been somewhat poorly handled.
I'm not, by the way, in any way trying to 'excuse' the often childish and combatitive complaint about intervention posted by quite a few members by making these comments. I'm merely attempting to constructively point out that there are structural factors at play, which serve to help ensure those childish, combatitive comments are forthcoming. Whilst those structural issues remain unaddressed this board remains at risk of an escalating downward spiral into more and more problems. It remains less likely to productively grow and move forward.
I'm sincerely sorry, by the way, if this post appears a bit pompous and/or overbearing. That's a shortcoming of my writing capabilities which appears in 'first drafts' of stuff I write when I'm trying to tread carefully in sensitive surrounds. I could 'fix' that with a review and rewrite, but I'm not gonna spend the time doing that for what is simply a forum post which will quite likely be skimmed over or overlooked by most thread participants :)
metaljim
05-01-08, 03:32 PM
thanks catweazle. it's nice to hear that someone from outside the "trouble group" isn't looking at us like we're idiots.
also, CAN WE GET A LIST OF WHO WAS BANNED? c'mon man, we've asked plenty, and we want to know who was on the list so we know who to look out for.
also, CAN WE GET A LIST OF WHO WAS BANNED? c'mon man, we've asked plenty, and we want to know who was on the list so we know who to look out for.
EivlEvo
05-01-08, 03:36 PM
Can any of the banned members still read the SS/FG forums?
cuda2k
05-01-08, 03:54 PM
Can any of the banned members still read the SS/FG forums?
Not sure what permission masks Brian setup, but you can read in the forum if you log out.
As far as placing the blame with the mods, we've had a lot of SSFG mods come and go, join, become inactive, etc since I became a mod. It's hard to moderate that area because you want to have fun, but also enforce the rules. It's probably even more difficult than moderating Foo, which I try to avoid because I want to have fun in there when I visit that area. The fact is that it becomes like herding cats sometimes, angry ones. If we got more cooperation from the community as a whole, and self-moderated itself a bit better in places, less blue star moderation would be necessary and situations like this wouldn't need to happen. I won't say all of the blame is with the SSFG community, and I (personally) don't look upon the group as a bunch of idiots. But I do see a fair bit of mob mentality, and throwing of fits because the moderators needed to get the attention of a few trouble makers and get them to cool their heals without punishing everyone. Brian's approach was to let those two groups separate themselves based on their reaction to the announcement. Seems to have worked fairly well. And if you feel you got caught up in the heat of the moment and such, PM him, explain that, politely. He's a reasonable guy, seriously.
Bout to finish up the day here, won't be back on the forums till later. Peace everyone, hope some of ya'll can get out and ride your bike. I'm going to be wishing I could be while sitting through a long long meeting.
Not sure what permission masks Brian setup, but you can read in the forum if you log out.
As far as placing the blame with the mods, we've had a lot of SSFG mods come and go, join, become inactive, etc since I became a mod. It's hard to moderate that area because you want to have fun, but also enforce the rules. It's probably even more difficult than moderating Foo, which I try to avoid because I want to have fun in there when I visit that area. The fact is that it becomes like herding cats sometimes, angry ones. If we got more cooperation from the community as a whole, and self-moderated itself a bit better in places, less blue star moderation would be necessary and situations like this wouldn't need to happen. I won't say all of the blame is with the SSFG community, and I (personally) don't look upon the group as a bunch of idiots. But I do see a fair bit of mob mentality, and throwing of fits because the moderators needed to get the attention of a few trouble makers and get them to cool their heals without punishing everyone. Brian's approach was to let those two groups separate themselves based on their reaction to the announcement. Seems to have worked fairly well. And if you feel you got caught up in the heat of the moment and such, PM him, explain that, politely. He's a reasonable guy, seriously.
Bout to finish up the day here, won't be back on the forums till later. Peace everyone, hope some of ya'll can get out and ride your bike. I'm going to be wishing I could be while sitting through a long long meeting.
EivlEvo
05-01-08, 03:55 PM
Actually... I've apparently just been banned. Furthermore. I was in no violation of any policy or rule whatsoever.
And for the record. Banned members can read the forums. Although Brians post about the situation has either been deleted or blocked from my view.
And for the record. Banned members can read the forums. Although Brians post about the situation has either been deleted or blocked from my view.
metaljim
05-01-08, 03:56 PM
Can any of the banned members still read the SS/FG forums?
only if you log out.
only if you log out.
Catweazle
05-01-08, 04:02 PM
You're welcome, metaljim, and it's heartening to see such comment even though my post wasn't uncritical of member behaviour in the section. I suspect that the underlying 'problem' of member participation in the section can be perhaps identified in the 'clique exclusivity' element of this post:
Basically I was part of a community, someone who for all practical purposes is foreign to that particular community came came in said "alright you guys can't hang out anymore" and then left. Very frustrating. Very very frustrating.
NitroPye, and anyone else thinking that way, you've just plain got it wrong!
The 'community' you belong to here is bikeforums.net! SSFG isn't a separate 'community' to that - instead it's a subset of it. And the person who 'came in' isn't an 'alien'. He's the overall senior board supervisor, for goodness sake!
Okay, so that last bit I just now learned in a PM sent to me. I kinda suspected it earlier, but as said the provided info here is far from flash! :D
Basically I was part of a community, someone who for all practical purposes is foreign to that particular community came came in said "alright you guys can't hang out anymore" and then left. Very frustrating. Very very frustrating.
NitroPye, and anyone else thinking that way, you've just plain got it wrong!
The 'community' you belong to here is bikeforums.net! SSFG isn't a separate 'community' to that - instead it's a subset of it. And the person who 'came in' isn't an 'alien'. He's the overall senior board supervisor, for goodness sake!
Okay, so that last bit I just now learned in a PM sent to me. I kinda suspected it earlier, but as said the provided info here is far from flash! :D
andrewssohip
05-01-08, 04:08 PM
why can i not start a thread in ssfg? has it been locked or have my permissions been limited?
metaljim
05-01-08, 04:12 PM
You're welcome, metaljim, and it's heartening to see such comment even though my post wasn't uncritical of member behaviour in the section. I suspect that the underlying 'problem' of member participation in the section can be perhaps identified in the 'clique exclusivity' element of this post:
NitroPye, and anyone else thinking that way, you've just plain got it wrong!
The 'community' you belong to here is bikeforums.net! SSFG isn't a separate 'community' to that - instead it's a subset of it. And the person who 'came in' isn't an 'alien'. He's the overall senior board supervisor, for goodness sake!
Okay, so that last bit I just now learned in a PM sent to me. I kinda suspected it earlier, but as said the provided info here is far from flash! :D
i think the clique thing wasn't an issue. it may have been a factor, but far from the big issue.
and brian is the senior board supervisor? no wonder few people (outside of the angry ones) have disagreed with him outside of PM. interesting.
NitroPye, and anyone else thinking that way, you've just plain got it wrong!
The 'community' you belong to here is bikeforums.net! SSFG isn't a separate 'community' to that - instead it's a subset of it. And the person who 'came in' isn't an 'alien'. He's the overall senior board supervisor, for goodness sake!
Okay, so that last bit I just now learned in a PM sent to me. I kinda suspected it earlier, but as said the provided info here is far from flash! :D
i think the clique thing wasn't an issue. it may have been a factor, but far from the big issue.
and brian is the senior board supervisor? no wonder few people (outside of the angry ones) have disagreed with him outside of PM. interesting.
Peedtm
05-01-08, 04:13 PM
why can i not start a thread in ssfg? has it been locked or have my permissions been limited?
We have been blocked for the month of May to help us focus on training for the upcoming season.
We have been blocked for the month of May to help us focus on training for the upcoming season.
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