Bicycle Mechanics - Cracked Head Tube (with pics). I Need Advice!

I was just pulling my bike off of my trunk rack, and I noticed a small crack in my head tube. I can't tell if it's just the paint, but it looks like it's through the frame. It's aluminum, btw. I bought the bike used about 6 months ago (it's a 2004), so I think there's no warranty since I'm not the original owner. Does anyone have any advice as to what I should do. Is the frame completely done, or should I just keep riding it till it gets worse? Thanks for any replies, and sorry the picture isn't great.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/coleduke/P5030028-1.jpg

Out of warrenty or not, I would contact Raleigh. They might replace it.

Out of warrenty or not, I would contact Raleigh. They might replace it.

The warranty applies to the original owner only...or are you suggesting fraud?

Personally, I'd either start shopping for a frame or an entire bike with a warranty.

The warranty applies to the original owner only...or are you suggesting fraud?

Personally, I'd either start shopping for a frame or an entire bike with a warranty.

+1 Stop riding it. It's toast.

...or are you suggesting fraud?

I don't think fraud was being suggested at all. Many manufacturers stand behind their products, in or out of warranty. Contact Raleigh, be honest about your situation. What's the worst they can do?

The warranty applies to the original owner only...or are you suggesting fraud?

Personally, I'd either start shopping for a frame or an entire bike with a warranty.

I would suggest fraud.

I don't think fraud was being suggested at all. Many manufacturers stand behind their products, in or out of warranty. Contact Raleigh, be honest about your situation. What's the worst they can do?


Q: Can you send warranty items/parts for my Raleigh directly to me?
A: For your convenience and safety, all warranty service is performed by professional bicycle mechanics at Raleigh dealers. For more information on the warranty of your Raleigh, refer to page 32 in your owner’s manual or download it by clicking here

Q: I bought a Raleigh bicycle from a friend, is my bike still covered by a warranty?
A: Unfortunately the warranty that originally covered your Raleigh is nontransferable. It was for “the original retail purchaser” of the bike. To read more about the warranty policy refer to page 32 of the owner’s manual or download it by clicking here.

From the Raleigh USA website (http://www.raleighusa.com/faqs/warranty/)

Before you freak out, if you have the technical knowledge... pull the handlebars and the fork and check the inside to make sure its not just a crack in the paint... which by that pic it very possibly could be.

From the Raleigh USA website (http://www.raleighusa.com/faqs/warranty/)

The vast majority of bike owners don't have the original receipt for their bike. Warranty technicians will deal with it regardless, as long as it has an RMA number attached to it.
I find that there are 2 types of manufacturers out there: those that take care of all issues that aren't a result of blatant abuse, and those that will warranty almost nothing but offer "crash replacement" product at a discount price.
It's always worth trying.

The vast majority of bike owners don't have the original receipt for their bike. Warranty technicians will deal with it regardless, as long as it has an RMA number attached to it.
I find that there are 2 types of manufacturers out there: those that take care of all issues that aren't a result of blatant abuse, and those that will warranty almost nothing but offer "crash replacement" product at a discount price.
It's always worth trying.

The point isn't whether he has the original receipt. He doesn't, he isn't the original owner.

Whether you can defraud/deceive/evoke pity from the manufacturer or an authorized dealer is beside the point. If you don't purchase a warranty, you aren't entitled to one. Knowing this, asking for one is fraud.

The point isn't whether he has the original receipt. He doesn't, he isn't the original owner.

Whether you can defraud/deceive/evoke pity from the manufacturer or an authorized dealer is beside the point. If you don't purchase a warranty, you aren't entitled to one. Knowing this, asking for one is fraud.

Outside of his admission here, there's no proof that he isn't the original owner. Bottom line: It's a cracked frame made by Raleigh.
You gonna call the cops? Come on.

If you don't purchase a warranty, you aren't entitled to one.

Unless the manufacturer decides you are. Which is exactly why the OP was told to contact Raleigh.

The point isn't whether he has the original receipt. He doesn't, he isn't the original owner.

Whether you can defraud/deceive/evoke pity from the manufacturer or an authorized dealer is beside the point. If you don't purchase a warranty, you aren't entitled to one. Knowing this, asking for one is fraud.

No fraud was suggested here, asking a manufacturer for a new frame whilst truthfully relaying information isn't fraud. I don't know why you would suggest as much.

Before you freak out, if you have the technical knowledge... pull the handlebars and the fork and check the inside to make sure its not just a crack in the paint... which by that pic it very possibly could be.

I'll have to disagree. There is practically no way to crack paint on a head tube like that. The head tube is cracked and the frame is only worth what you can get for the recycling.

ChunkyB, I hate to say it but you've learned a lesson about bicycles...especially used bikes. You saved a little money by purchasing a used one. It broke. Not much you can do but look for a new one. Try the suggestion from CharlesC but don't be too hopeful. Be honest about it being a used bike and if the shop owner treats you well...even if they can't get you a new one...consider buying a new one from them.

OT, but since this involves an integrated headset maybe Chris King would pay you for some photos to use in their campaign against integrateds :p

After Raleigh turns you down (I'd ask truthfully, anyway. Maybe something good could come out of it), if it's a 6xxx series AL, isn't welding a possibility? 7xxx are heat treated after welding so if the frame is made from a 7 series - you can now make a shop stool.

No fraud was suggested here, asking a manufacturer for a new frame whilst truthfully relaying information isn't fraud. I don't know why you would suggest as much.

Are you saying that asking a manufacturer for a new frame when you know full well you didn't pay for nor are entitled to a warranty isn't dishonest?

Whether the manufacturer decides to protect their brand and send a frame to a "customer" as a public relations gesture is beside the point. Sure, you can brag to your friends about how you received a brand new frame in exchange for a broken used one, but it smacks of taking advantage of a company trying to protect its public image. Meanwhile the costs are absorbed by the real customers paying for a warranty.

The honest thing to do is to buy a new frame, not beg for one.

Are you saying that asking a manufacturer for a new frame when you know full well you didn't pay for nor are entitled to a warranty isn't dishonest?

Whether the manufacturer decides to protect their brand and send a frame to a "customer" as a public relations gesture is beside the point. Sure, you can brag to your friends about how you received a brand new frame in exchange for a broken used one, but it smacks of taking advantage of a company trying to protect its public image. Meanwhile the costs are absorbed by the real customers paying for a warranty.

Yet a warranty was paid for by the original purchaser and never used. What's so bad about our guy here seeking some previously unused redress? Worst they can do is say no.

Raleigh has a chance here to have the OP running around saying "I had a Raleigh once. It was a sweet ride, but it didn't last." OR the OP can be a guy who says "Raleigh really gives a $#!+ about the reputation of their product. Even though I wasn't the original owner, they (cut me a deal, warrantied the frame, etc.)"

Assuming they have a frame compatible with all the parts of the OP's bike (you think they would) their only cost is the maybe $50 that those Chinese AL frames run these days. I'd make the deal, if I were the rep.

That said, my experience with Raleigh (admittedly, pre-Derby era) is that they were sticklers for the exact terms of the original purchaser's warranty and wanted to see a receipt. Once the receipt was produced, they were great. Had a friend break a dropout on a Japanese Competition and end up with a British 531 Pro frame.

The thing that really amazes me is all the frames that are cracking their headtubes! Seems like there's at least one posted here every week. I used to work for a shop with an in-house framebuilder and we never saw cracked headtubes. Once in a while we'd see one that was ovalized (heck, my Viscount is) but never cracked. Of course, these were all steel frames.

Yet a warranty was paid for by the original purchaser and never used. What's so bad about our guy here seeking some previously unused redress? Worst they can do is say no.
Wasn't it used? The original owner was covered by warranty during the entire time of ownership. Just because no claims were made (which we really don't know if that is true) the warranty still protected the buyer. That buyer also made money back when the bike was sold as used.

Raleigh has a chance here to have the OP running around saying "I had a Raleigh once. It was a sweet ride, but it didn't last." OR the OP can be a guy who says "Raleigh really gives a $#!+ about the reputation of their product. Even though I wasn't the original owner, they (cut me a deal, warrantied the frame, etc.)"
That is a great example of the extortion issue of holding a company's reputation at stake, in essence blackmailing them with the potential of bad press, even when no warranty is implied or deserved.

Assuming they have a frame compatible with all the parts of the OP's bike (you think they would) their only cost is the maybe $50 that those Chinese AL frames run these days. I'd make the deal, if I were the rep.
I wonder how long you would hold that position. Considering how many Raleighs are out there, you'd have a fulltime job handing out free frames to people reclaiming them from dumps and turning them in for "warranty" once the word got out that Raleigh carried it through several owners.


That said, my experience with Raleigh (admittedly, pre-Derby era) is that they were sticklers for the exact terms of the original purchaser's warranty and wanted to see a receipt. Once the receipt was produced, they were great. Had a friend break a dropout on a Japanese Competition and end up with a British 531 Pro frame.
Agreed, Raleigh is a great company that stands behind their word and their product...which is exactly why it offends me to see them getting taken advantage of.

The thing that really amazes me is all the frames that are cracking their headtubes! Seems like there's at least one posted here every week. I used to work for a shop with an in-house framebuilder and we never saw cracked headtubes. Once in a while we'd see one that was ovalized (heck, my Viscount is) but never cracked. Of course, these were all steel frames.
Certainly, but with aluminum there is a finite fatigue life. I have no doubts part of Raleigh's warranty policy is calculating just how long the average buyer keeps a frame before selling it and buying another, as well as how much use a particular frame is expected to endure. I can't fault them for this as just about every manufacturer out there does the same thing. That is why they offer a 5-year warranty on some frames and a lifetime on others...as long as the original purchaser owns the bike.

I wonder how long you would hold that position. Considering how many Raleighs are out there, you'd have a fulltime job handing out free frames to people reclaiming them from dumps and turning them in for "warranty" once the word got out that Raleigh carried it through several owners.

You're assuming that all of them have some defect that would make them warranteeable, if in the hands of the original owner. Those would be few and far between. OP has a shiny bike, for which the chance of a 'policy adjustment' (that's what we always called it--happens more than you think) is high.



Certainly, but with aluminum there is a finite fatigue life. I have no doubts part of Raleigh's warranty policy is calculating just how long the average buyer keeps a frame before selling it and buying another, as well as how much use a particular frame is expected to endure. I can't fault them for this as just about every manufacturer out there does the same thing. That is why they offer a 5-year warranty on some frames and a lifetime on others...as long as the original purchaser owns the bike.

I should probably have used some winking smilies for that section. Here they are ;) ;) ;).

I got out of the industry 'round about the time that Trek announced that OCLV and suspension bikes would only have a five year warranty. We who sold and serviced them were sorely disappointed.

You're assuming that all of them have some defect that would make them warranteeable, if in the hands of the original owner. Those would be few and far between. OP has a shiny bike, for which the chance of a 'policy adjustment' (that's what we always called it--happens more than you think) is high.
No, I'm not assuming that. I agree that defects are few and far between, something calculated into the warranty policy and the length of time it covers, but you said it again, this is not the original purchaser we're dealing with here. Sure, I'd go out of my way to help an original purchaser to get his bike warranteed if the matter was just a lost receipt. Heck, I've done it, and when it was refused took care of it in-house via a deep discount on a new bike (the customer had purchased the bike from his son...we felt bad and helped the guy out).


I should probably have used some winking smilies for that section. Here they are ;) ;) ;).

I got out of the industry 'round about the time that Trek announced that OCLV and suspension bikes would only have a five year warranty. We who sold and serviced them were sorely disappointed.
You're not the only one disappointed there. I'd love to tell customers that they have a lifetime warranty, especially one that they can actually collect on, not be "coached" by the vendor in how to ask questions calculated to deny them a claim. I'm up front about warranty policies, and it may lose a few sales but at least I'm putting a reasonable expectation out there and doing my best to serve my customers with integrity.

The sad truth is, with as light as some modern bikes are made, they just don't last like an old Schwinn did, Schwinn being the first bike manufacturer to offer a lifetime warranty, and creating the expectation in the consumer. I understand how financially dangerous it would be for many vendors to offer one, especially extended to multiple owners.

To the OP: Forgive my going on about calling Raleigh directly. Obviously my position is from the other side of the counter, and I have seen many, many attempts to defraud vendors with which we have a symbiotic relationship. By all means call them or stop by a dealer, especially one with which you have established a relationship, but keep in mind that by their stated policy, you can expect nothing, nor can you be upset if denied. My point was merely to be honest about your position with yourself. If they offer a new frame at a discounted rate, I'd take advantage of their "policy adjustment" and be sure to tell your friends they treated you well.

Nobody is hurt if Raleigh is asked if they will warranty a frame, even if the person who currently owns it is not the "original" owner. Perhaps they will be nice, create some good-will and warranty the frame for him. Who knows?

Why are you so against this? It isn't fraud, nothing is being mis-represented here. This is totally besides the extremely ridiculous notion that the instant the bike is sold that warranty should be invalid. I see no tehcnical reason, only financial (for the benefit on the manufacturer even) to not honour warranty once it has been transferred.

Bring it to you local technical college metal shop. This looks like a good project for them. They might be able to test it to see if it is indeed cracked.

If it is, they can weld it and clean it up. Looks like a good project for an advanced metals shop class.

If it is cracked and you decide to have it welded, be sure to drill a hole at the very top of the crack before doing the welding repair work.

Mike, good idea. But I think ChunkB outta be a redneck an' hose clamp it. Just kidding.

Mike, good idea. But I think ChunkB outta be a redneck an' hose clamp it. Just kidding.

That's what I'm thinking. Then I can hold onto it while I'm riding and get really aero.

Honestly, I'm planning on taking it to a shop to see if it's really cracked, but I'm pretty sure it is. I'm going to call Raleigh and see if they can do anything for me. I'm kind of amazed at the amount of discussion oh whether or not this is unethical. I don't plan on lying, even though I know the guy that sold it to me and I could just have him return it, but if they want to give me a new frame or give me one on the cheap, then that's their decision. It's not dishonest to ask. In fact, the thought is pretty preposterous if you ask me.

Thanks for all the input. I'll definitely not ride until I know exactly what's going on, and luckily I have an old bike that will serve me just fine until I get it all figured out.

If anyone has a frame collecting dust that they would like to get rid of, PM me. I'd like to learn how to build a bike anyways.

Are you saying that asking a manufacturer for a new frame when you know full well you didn't pay for nor are entitled to a warranty isn't dishonest?

Morally questionable =/= fraud.

We all know that warranties are put in place for the benefit of the company, right? It's a limitation on THEIR responsibility, not a helpful deal for consumers. (Not that the terms of a lot of warranties aren't helpful.)

That being said, some companies (Kona comes to mind), have a frame replacement program, where you can buy a replacement frame for your bike for half price....ask Raleigh for sure.

Here is my take:

Saying "hey raleigh,
Ive got this bike that I picked up used a while back, and I recently noticed a small crack in the headtube. I am not the original owner, but I was wondering if there is anything you can do for me, I really like the bike.
Thanks"

that is not dishonest. Chances are, if Raleigh were to take care of him, his next bike purchase would be a Raleigh. Even if they were to offer a discount on a new purchase, it would be awesome. I wouldn't expect anything, as Raleigh does not owe him anything, but hell, its worth a try.

I was just pulling my bike off of my trunk rack, and I noticed a small crack in my head tube. I can't tell if it's just the paint, but it looks like it's through the frame. It's aluminum, btw. I bought the bike used about 6 months ago (it's a 2004), so I think there's no warranty since I'm not the original owner. Does anyone have any advice as to what I should do. Is the frame completely done, or should I just keep riding it till it gets worse? Thanks for any replies, and sorry the picture isn't great.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/coleduke/P5030028-1.jpg

chip off the paint in the location of the "crack" and verify it is a crack. If it is then Toast is the right word. Cracks in that area are usually stress related and may be from a headset that was improperly installed. Did you have any work done on the bike?
The real moral of the story is Never buy a used Aluminum bike...cause you don't know who has worked on it nor if it has been mal treated. Stress risers can start and you won't see the damage until the cracks occur. I doubt the original owner had any idea of a problem. And Raleigh can't be held accountable for a poorly installed headset.
As far as materials are concerned I don't know if the same is true of Carbon but I wouldn't ever buy a used carbon bike either...Ti and steel are the only 2 materials that I would ever consider for a used frame.
Buy a new frame and move the parts over...caveat empetor on used bikes.

Mike, good idea. But I think ChunkB outta be a redneck an' hose clamp it. Just kidding.

Good thinking! And there you have it; a solution for under a buck.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6899360-0-display.jpg

Warranty documentation or not, original owner or not, Raleigh would probably like for that frame to be off of the road! A Raleigh dealer just might be flexible about details. It is not in the interest of anyone in the bike industry "food chain" for that bike to still be ridden. If Raleigh doesn't cover the whole frame, they might do a crash replacement deal--greatly reduced price on a new frame for return of the old one.

Original owner? Bah! It is a fairly recent machine that shouldn't have fatigued like this in the first place. Take it to the dealer/call Raleigh - see if they'll do anything about it, as folks have mentioned here earlier. It is in their best interests to do so. Lack of quality such as this will get around if not taken care of.

That said, who ever mentioned anything about masking oneself as the original owner? Nobody - except for the conspiracy theorists.

Incidentally, although I said it shouldn't have cracked in the first place, I am not entirely surprised - I do not believe in AL as a good frame material for the very reason that it is highly prone to this. I dare say some robot in the factory punched in those integrated races hard enough to cause a stress crack on the inside that didn't pull through until now.

-Kurt

So, here's what happened. I explained the whole thing to Raleigh, and they were totally cool about the whole thing. I took it into the shop where it was originally purchased, and they took care of the rest.They called me today to tell me it was ready here are a few pics. I especially love the head badge. You don't see a lot of actual metal head badges. It's also made of Kinesis Kinesium. Does anybody know what that is? Is it nice?

At any rate, I'm really glad that I was honest about the whole thing, and I'm especially glad that Raleigh was cool about it. The fork looks a little weird, but I think I'll get used to it.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/coleduke/P6060009.jpg

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/coleduke/P6060011.jpg

So, here's what happened. I explained the whole thing to Raleigh, and they were totally cool about the whole thing. I took it into the shop where it was originally purchased, and they took care of the rest.They called me today to tell me it was ready here are a few pics. I especially love the head badge. You don't see a lot of actual metal head badges. It's also made of Kinesis Kinesium. Does anybody know what that is? Is it nice?

At any rate, I'm really glad that I was honest about the whole thing, and I'm especially glad that Raleigh was cool about it. The fork looks a little weird, but I think I'll get used to it.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/coleduke/P6060009.jpg

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/coleduke/P6060011.jpg

Very nice!!!! Glad you were honest...and Raleigh was more than accomodating...Good Karma for you both. Very Glad that you posted this followup on the problem. Hope everyone who was so exercised about the issue takes the time to read your last entry...Wonderful!

Kinesis is probably the best alloy for bikes.

Glad to hear of the positive outcome, and Raleigh's cooperation. Everything does work out just right one day or another :)

P.S.: Fork looks pretty good, even if the scheme would be considered unconventional as it is now. Matches the frame decals, and I dare say it adds a nice accent to the rest of the frame that wouldn't be present had it been a black fork. Beware though - the SS/FG hipsters will copy you ;)

-Kurt

Mike, good idea. But I think ChunkB outta be a redneck an' hose clamp it. Just kidding.

Hey, ChunkyB, we gotta know; did the hoseclamp idea work?

If it does, then make it permanent by welding or brazing the hose clamp to the head tube! :roflmao2:

.. did the hoseclamp idea work?
Don't know about hoseclamp, but I have a MTB frame with a crack like that. Used a lathe to machine a steel collar to interference fit, pressed it on. It's seen all the abuse I've been able to throw at it for the last 4 years or so and seems to be doing just fine.

I was just pulling my bike off of my trunk rack, and I noticed a small crack in my head tube. I can't tell if it's just the paint, but it looks like it's through the frame. It's aluminum, btw. I bought the bike used about 6 months ago (it's a 2004), so I think there's no warranty since I'm not the original owner. Does anyone have any advice as to what I should do. Is the frame completely done, or should I just keep riding it till it gets worse? Thanks for any replies, and sorry the picture isn't great.

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee232/coleduke/P5030028-1.jpg


It is toast.

I've had two raleigh frames fail. I was the original owner and NEITHER frame Raleigh covered under warranty. I had a third frame with paint issues and they didn't fix it either. One cracked exactly where your frame cracked. One was a race MTB frame where the rear drive side chainstay failed.

What did raleigh do? Well, they said since I raced the one MTB (2005 Raleigh Inferno), that it voided the warranty. Guess what? It is a freaking RACE frame.

They could have fixed the paint issue on the other but since:
1 they have no manufacturing except Kinesis
2 they can't paint their own frames (kinesis)
3 They stopped making that frame
4 They would replace it with a lesser value frame

I told them to stuff it.

Run, run far away from them and this is coming from someone that has owned several Raleigh bikes over the years. They used to be good but now they are just rebranding frames with no way to fix any issues.

I've sold off all their stuff that I had left.

^^^

Please read post #32. Thanks.

Contact Raleigh and tell them you bought a used Raleigh and discovered this crack in the head tube and see what they do.

There would be no fraud in this and because this appears to be a manufacturing defect and safety issue they might want to know about it and perhaps even replace the frame for you.

If it hasn't been said enough... the frame is toast.

heh. *******. the guy already got a replacement from Raleigh. what are you replying to? :)

heh. *******. the guy already got a replacement from Raleigh. what are you replying to? :)


I thought it was standard practice to post a reply before reading the whole thread. :rolleyes: ;)

[QUOTE=ChunkyB;6834764]So, here's what happened. I explained the whole thing to Raleigh, and they were totally cool about the whole thing. I took it into the shop where it was originally purchased, and they took care of the rest.They called me today to tell me it was ready here are a few pics. I especially love the head badge. You don't see a lot of actual metal head badges. It's also made of Kinesis Kinesium. Does anybody know what that is? Is it nice?


Good for you. Really nice looking bike.

hey...your frame is cracked...........

Are you saying that asking a manufacturer for a new frame when you know full well you didn't pay for nor are entitled to a warranty isn't dishonest?

Whether the manufacturer decides to protect their brand and send a frame to a "customer" as a public relations gesture is beside the point. Sure, you can brag to your friends about how you received a brand new frame in exchange for a broken used one, but it smacks of taking advantage of a company trying to protect its public image. Meanwhile the costs are absorbed by the real customers paying for a warranty.

The honest thing to do is to buy a new frame, not beg for one.

That's just crazy talk. Are you aware that some manufacturers will warranty their product even though they know full well the current owner is not original and is not technically entitled to it? Why in heaven's name would you imply that asking the manufacturer about this is dishonest or somehow taking advantage of the company? That just doesn't make any sense at all. I really doubt the company would do it if they didn't want to on their own free (corporate) will.

NOW LISTEN CAREFULLY: THE SUGGESTION WAS NOT TO COMMIT FRAUD BY REPRESENTING ONE'S SELF AS THE ORIGINAL OWNER. THE SUGGESTION WAS SIMPLY TO CONTACT THE MANUFACTURER, EXPLAIN THE OWNERSHIP SITUATION AND THE DEFECT, AND SEE WHAT THE MANUFACTURER WOULD DO.

The manufacturer may provide something, they may not. They may provide a discounted frame. They may provide a credit towards the future purchase of another product. They may indeed say: "sorry, the warranty doesn't apply."

There are several reasons they might do this (provide warranty coverage when it is technically not due)

The simply want to stand behind their product in the case of an obvious defect for quality and reputation reasons.

They want to do it for public relations reasons.

They understand product liability law and know that sometimes - for very good reasons - manufacturers are held liable for damages if someone is injured due to a product defect, regardless of warranties.