Road Cycling - where do you stand?

Somebody posted this (http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=5300) link to a good roadie article on one of the email lists I am subscribed to. I personally mostly use my road bike to train for MTB racing, but it let some wind out of my sails when I found out where I really stand. I've never been a particularly fast roadie, even when in top form, but I didn't realize I was that slow...

Wow! That's a great read! Really makes you wonder eh? I consider myself far from being even the "average" rider discussed in that article, so I guess I've got a long way to go! :)

Definitely described me quite well. I fall off the back after about 35 miles at 20+mph. And that is just fine with me. I am out to ride and have a good time, do my pulls and then take it easy on the last 15, or so. The only time I see 30+ mph is a downhill or a sprint. If our paceline decides it is going to be crazy (22+ is crazy for me) then I simply drop off and do my own thing.

The pro's are amazing. At any level. One of our strongest riders did a local crit. A couple of high school junior pro's came out for the ride. As everyone else was putting it all out on the one small uphill involved these two were sitting up chatting at the front. Rather disheartening to the rest of the peleton, to say the least. And these guys were both 17. At least they had the good grace to simply ride off from the rest of the group two laps before the finish so everyone else could jostle for third. A different type of rider from us recreational sorts.

I did catch that leg of the Veulta he describes (on OLN). Only pointed out just how strong USPS is as a team. They really hurt everyone else. Especially the ONCE team.

Somebody posted this (http://www.dailypeloton.com/displayarticle.asp?pk=5300) link to a good roadie article on one of the email lists I am subscribed to. I personally mostly use my road bike to train for MTB racing, but it let some wind out of my sails when I found out where I really stand. I've never been a particularly fast roadie, even when in top form, but I didn't realize I was that slow...

Wow, what a great read, Mike! It certainly goes a long way toward putting the art and skill of road bike racing in its proper perspective. This is my favorite part of the article:

"On a good day, with all my stars in alignment, I can just hang onto him on a downhill, or at least keep him in sight. Most of the time he’s much faster than I am and disappears from view after the first few corners. And in this instance, he’s descending a road just outside his hometown....a road he’s ridden many times and knows well. In theory, he should have this descent wired. But as he’s flying down the hill, he’s caught and passed by a handful of pros who had been noodling along at the tail end of the race. Presumably, from their position at the back of the field, these guys weren’t trying all that hard--weren’t pushing the envelope--and yet they went by him so fast, he felt like he was backing up. But for my friend, the amazing thing was not that they passed him, but that, while passing him, one of them was sitting up, no hands, pulling on his jacket!"

I tell myself the only way to get there is to keep pedaling.

Very nice article.

Gracias

My only comment is that I really doubt Mario was chasing the truck. He was probably chasing the girl on the bike. :D

Great article, thanks.

No one has ever claimed that Mario doesn't have his priorities right.

Reminds me of when I was on my high school swim team, and I went swimming at a friend's house. He commented that he thought I was a very fast swimmer. I put it like this:

- I was the slowest member of our team
- Our high school team was 0-10 at that point
- The fastest school in our district was blown out at the regionals by the "beach schools" (in/around Redondo, Manhattan, Hermosa Beaches).
- The fastest guys at the beach schools had a chance at scholarships
- The best of those thought about qualifying for the Olympic team
- The US Olympic team was soundly beaten by the Germans, Australians, etc.

Amazing the level of performance the pro riders compete in.

i think the writer should point out the wide range of people who can be called "pro." local pros are generally really strong by the average guy's standards (especially in places like here), but they are generally a long way from the select few who can compete in the grand european tours.

there was a short hill climb here this spring. the record time, placed by a world class pro (jonathan vaughters), was 17 minutes and small change over a 4.5 mile, 1200 foot climb. the last place pro category time was 21:35. i finished at 22:07, and my weight was about 15 pounds above my ideal race weight.

now there's no way in hell i will ever make a 17 minute climb up that thing. however, if i were to drop to a good race weight and post the requisite miles before the same race next year, i feel relatively confident i could finish in around 20 minutes, which would be a mid-pack pro time. the vast gulf between being able to do this and being able to turn the cranks to a 17-minute victory is what separates the truly gifted from those who can compete in the pro category in local races.

btw, i was racing cat 4 in that race - and 32 people in that category came in before me during the two minutes that separated my time from the winning time!

keith - Was it Mt Evans? I watched that one a few years ago. It was hard for me to just walk at over 14,000' and those people were climbing that mountain at race pace(well some of them, anyway). There were lots of people laying in the ditch on the way up with medics feeding them oxygen.

My 23mph century 4hr... 30min... pales to this...

Except I did it solo. And I've yet to repeat it. 21mph is the closets I got this year.

I did a 185 miles ride in 10 hours... But then that turns out to only be 18.5mph... Sigh... I blame it on being over 40yrs. :(

keith - Was it Mt Evans?

no, it was lookout mountain. mt. evans for me is more like 2 hours and 20 minutes at race pace ... course record there is 1:45 or so. but same thing applies, probably even more there. 2:20 puts me like 4/5 down the pack in the pro-1-2s - but i am pretty sure that it wouldn't win me the citizens category! and of course it is nowhere even close to 1:45.

mt evans is a sweet road - did you get to ride up it? it's a challenge just to ride up unless you're acclimatized, but a blast nonetheless. er, in that really painful sense of the word "blast."

Tyler Hamilton did the Mt. Washington "hill" climb in 50:19. That's 6,288 ft., 7.6 miles total distance.

Ack.

It is amazing how a sport can seem so "average" to someone that does not know about it. Anyone can ride a bike, throw/catch a ball, drive a car, etc. The average person would have no idea that bike racing even has strategy.

One thing that can really separate the pros from everyone else is that they have to live an entire lifestyle to even think about being at the top. How many people would be willing to give up all of the food (OMG beer included) that the cycling pros have to? A good example in boxing is Mike Tyson, arguably one of the best ever. He could not maintain the lifestyle that is required of a top ranked boxer, thus his career took a dive.

My own story (non-cycling) FWIW. In high school I was a very good trumpet player. The soloist in the marching band, jazz band, and concert band. I always made the county, regional and state bands. I also was starting to get some scholarship interest by a few colleges. I thought I would go to college and then turn pro. I talked to my music teacher. He basically said that I was a great high school player, a really good college player, and that I probably would not really make it in the pro levels. In this case, think of the guys that play for Jay Leno, Harry Conick Jr., and the major symphonies. I was really upset. So were my parents. But, I did choose another profession. And I now realize that he was right. I was not good enough to really go pro. There is a whole different level there.

Oh well, thanks for listening to me whine :cry:

Interesting, I understand Bill’s points. But I’ve come to accept that the general public will never really understand the great skill and talent it takes to be a great cyclist. Cyclist are a special bread of athlete. And even within cycling, there are still different types; sprinters are the powerhouses, time trialist are the models of efficiency, and hill climbers are lean and mean. But so what if the guy watching the nightly news doesn’t understand? He also doesn’t understand art and opera. Okay, I don’t understand opera…it was not meant to be. Have you noticed the commercials during “major league” sports? Beer, chips and viagera. This is the average guy that the industry has determined is watching, do we really care if they understand cycling?

As for Ron Borges, there was a recent column in a newspaper that was sent around…not sure if this is the same, but IT WAS FUNNY! It was not a serious attempt to put down cyclist and cycling, but to illustrate the point that the general public is ignorant.

Look, we know that cycling is an incredible sport at any level. Whether its cheering the boys on at a mountain stage or spinning away from my buddies, the joys of cycling is our little secret. I don’t need every Tom, Dick and Harry watching cycling as they down a beer, stuff their face with chips and wonder if they need to refill their prescription of the purple pill.

As for where I stack up...I'm over 40 and am lucky to do a century in a year. I get in a good ride on saturdays and can sit in a 22mph paceline. With two kids and a full time job, I'm lucky to get out during the week. I was on a local mountain a few years ago and saw some guys on a local team on a training ride. I was up the road and saw them a few switchbacks down. I slowed my speed to recover a little and got on their wheel for about 2 seconds, they blew by and there was nothing I could do but sit up. In my younger days I was able to get in a 42mph sprint, but am lucky to get up to 35 now...but I still love it!

I personally am disgusted by these guys who sit in bars or on their couch, swigging beers and cursing pro sports players who screw up. If you can't do it yourself, then you have no right to criticize the pros. At least be an appreciative spectator. One of the great joys of bike racing is to see what it's like to go up a hill or do a pull and start to grasp what these pros are capable of. It's truly amazing.

Actually you might be surprised who is interested in cycling. In 2002 I was watching the Gyro on OLN one evening when my 65 year old Dad came over for a visit. We watched together for awhile and he started asking questions about it. He, like most others, thought road cycling was an individual sport. After I explained how it all worked he showed some interest, and in the next few days he called occasionally with more questions. Later in '02 he watched the Tour and said he really enjoyed it. This year I started a new job and wasn't able to watch as much, and he would call me at work through both races, watching live, and give me updates. Now he knows all the big names and probably knows the strategy better than I do. And I can honsetly say I've never seen my Dad on a bike in my lifetime. He's always been a sportsfan, but mostly football, baseball, all the regular ones. Now he's a true roadie bike fan. If he wasn't so old I bet he would be down buying a new Litespeed or 5200 hehe. So all we really need is education, because if someone like my old Pop can become this interested in bike racing anyone can.

Also, for years I've been seeing an older man riding a road bike around where I live. (In this area a road biker really stands out). During most of this time I was more into mtn biking and motocross, but I always wondered who this guy was. Recently by chance we became acquainted through a local email list and we ended up meeting for a ride one day. Turns out this guy is 61 years old, started riding and racing crits at the age of 51, and is screaming fast on the road. He's renewed my interest in roading, and he's been coaching me on technique. In trade, I've been coaching him off-road and we've made a real friendship...

First,i'm far from what he wrote about.I'm 80-100 miles a week and mostly avg. about 15-16mph and my longest rides have been around 35 miles.I think the non-riders think we are a bunch of show offs.Mybe its the cloths or the sweet looking bikes or the cofendence a rider shows when he rides or all the above.Not really sure.I know when i talk to a non rider and tell them i just got back from doing 30,they think thats a big deal.I always tell them,belive me its nothing to what a lot of these guys you see riding and they are surprised.

Tyler Hamilton did the Mt. Washington "hill" climb in 50:19. That's 6,288 ft., 7.6 miles total distance.

nope, it's 4880 ft and 7.6 miles - theres a very big difference. it's the difference between an average grade of 12% and one of nearly 16%!

still impressive. but even tyler ain't gonna climb an 8-mile, 16% hill in under an hour.

Yeah, my bad on that one. The total hight of the mountain is 6,288. I figured it out when I checked out the race homepage...

Thanks for keeping me honest!

Nice article. I've been trying to explain to non-biking people for some time now how impressive these euro pros are. I'm not even sure that most weekend racers have any idea.

What your average European pro is capable of is truly amazing.

Why "euro" pros? This article is about all pros and the peleton in the U.S. is quite competitive. The U.S. pros who go to Europe to ride do pretty well, if memory serves me. Both as individuals and as a team. If Saturn, Navigators, Prime Alliance, etc., had riden in Europe this past year they would have had members of their squad scattered all over the peleton finish from some of the top spots to some of the bottom. Just like the Europeans. No difference. They are ALL amazing.

I think it comes back to one truth;

The deeper you dig, the further down the burrow will go.

Every professional sport these days is big business. I could go to a ping-pong game and be amazed and some of the things these people do.

It is because cycling is not as revered in the US (and to a similar extent, Aus) and hence gets little attention and understanding. You will find, any sport that you really have a close look at has the 'body' that cycling does, just in a different slant.

Professional sports-people are maniacs, plain and simple.

Why "euro" pros?

The best riders in the world are racing in Europe.

That's all I meant.

Yes, it was a great article.

I think when the author talked about the "average" rider, he had it up too high though. The average rider that he talked about would be one of our midlevel "A" riders in my local club. He would get dropped by the really strong guys but he would be stronger then 90% of the people and a whole bunch stronger then most. In our club, if you figured there were 10 levels of cyclists in it, this average rider would be at level 2 just below level 1 and he would be regarded with a degree of awe and wonder by most of the people in the club.

The thing that is incredible is how much stronger the pros are then fit recreational riders or even successful local racers. But you have to remember, a pro is on a slippery slope. They are not up there on top for long. Look what happened to Miguel Indurain. One year he won the the tour de france and the next year he was barely in the top 10. Of course, being "barely" in the top 10 still means you are amazing. But even the best riders can only stay at the upper levels for a few years.

Another thing, is that these guys ride in situations that most of us never see. I once got into a sort of peloton in a century ride. I was in pretty good shape. We were going along and when I dared to look at my speedometer when we were going relatively slowly, we were going 26-27 mph. We were cruising most of the time about 28-30 mph. But the group was so big that the draft was incredible. I wasn't really working hard. So I figured, "I am going to stay here until I drain my camelback". That happened at 65 miles and at that time I had an average speed of 24. And much of that decrease was caused by slowing down at lights and stuff.

However, the real comparison is the hour time trial. On flat terrain, I have always felt good to be able to hit 30 mph and hold it for a bit. To go 30 mph for an hour is just amazing.

I would like to compare cyclist,basketball and hockey players to see how they compare in fitness,pro's of course.Football and baseball could'nt hold a candle to those guys.

The only athletes I see as being at the same fitness level as pro cyclists would be speed skaters and elite cross country skiers.

Baseball? I've seen many a pitcher with a large gut.

All I can do (say) is quote Wayne's world
"I'm not worthy"
a truely amazing read.

thanks,
Marty

"The only athletes I see as being at the same fitness level as pro cyclists would be speed skaters and elite cross country skiers."

I'd add running, swimming, gymnastics and perhaps rugby.

Good read!

Made me think about a cat 1 rider of some regional notoriety. On being asked how much he trained he said "average 450 miles a week during base, 350 during the season."

Hmmm. How long would I have to train just to be able to *train* at that level? Genetics may be the differentiator, but regardless, it don't come easy.

Different story. A local periodical was lambasting a new healthclub in town for making rediculous weight loss claims. They spoke to a professor of exercise physiology at the local university, who said Lance Armstrong riding the TdF couldn't lose weight at that rate. My point is, it's notable he chose professional cycling as the benchmark for extended high intensity effort exercise.

The only athletes I see as being at the same fitness level as pro cyclists would be speed skaters and elite cross country skiers.

Baseball? I've seen many a pitcher with a large gut.

Pitchers aren't meant to be the picture of cardiovascular fitness. They are meant to throw a little white ball, over and over and over again. That's what they get paid for!

Fitness is a relative term. Cardio fitness, strength endurance? There are so many factors involved.

I'm not trying to detract from cycling, or pro-cyclist (they are truly amazing), I just think most sports people end up being pretty damn good at what they do.

A fat pig can pitch,lets see him do 50 miles,20 min. half court game or a period of hockey.Baseball players stand around 80% of a game,football play lasts about 10 seconds.

How many times have top ranked cyclists be caught doping? Plenty of times! And of the peers of these dopers, the supposedly clean riders who finish in times better or not far behind, what are we to assume: that they are supermen?

We assume that that the dopers are subpar for the pro category and rise to the top by cheating (the use of banned substances). And the clean riders are the norm for performance at the pro level. But what has this got to do with anything? Because the top pro's are so much better than us does not make them super-human. Any more than that 350 lineman or 7 foot center.

One thing to remeber is that these pros that we admire are only coming to our attention after years of prep. When I was racing full time back in the mid 80's I'd see Charlie Isendorf (of pro team G.S Mengoni) out trainning all the time. Most of the time he was motor pacing behind his dad who was on a Honda Scooter. The kid was in his mid teens. Going 35+ miles per hour. So by the time he is 25 and gets into the national spotlight, he's been riding and trainning like a pro for 10 years. Of cousre genetics plays a part, but hard work and a very suppotive family helping to focus that talent, creates a pro.

Great article. One thing going along way in educating sports fans is the OLN coverage. They explain the tactics, the ave. speed, and give some sense of the scale of the race. Sure. it's not perfect, but it sure beats the 1 hr. per week we used to get on CBS.