bellweatherman
I hope we are going to be seeing some bb shells from the bb manufacturers soon with the BB30 specs.
BB30 lugs
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repechage
It would be nice, but the demand would need to be there, at this point, it would be hard to recoup the tooling costs. You could make your own.
Among the problems of utilizing BB30 in a lugged type BB shell is the post machining necessary, BB'd distort a bit, there are no parts that can be modified to help make things work, (such as spacers between the threaded cups and the bearings) The "press fit" region must be paint free, so rust will be a concern at the "edge". Yes, stainless steel and or a bevel can address some of this, just design time.
Still, outboard bearings are a workaround that is the band-aid approach. An larger diameter shell makes fitting big diameter down and or seat tubes easier...
Among the problems of utilizing BB30 in a lugged type BB shell is the post machining necessary, BB'd distort a bit, there are no parts that can be modified to help make things work, (such as spacers between the threaded cups and the bearings) The "press fit" region must be paint free, so rust will be a concern at the "edge". Yes, stainless steel and or a bevel can address some of this, just design time.
Still, outboard bearings are a workaround that is the band-aid approach. An larger diameter shell makes fitting big diameter down and or seat tubes easier...
bellweatherman
Among the problems of utilizing BB30 in a lugged type BB shell is the post machining necessary, BB'd distort a bit, there are no parts that can be modified to help make things work, (such as spacers between the threaded cups and the bearings) The "press fit" region must be paint free, so rust will be a concern at the "edge". Yes, stainless steel and or a bevel can address some of this, just design time.
BB shells distort upon welding or brazing. That has nothing to do with the BB30 spec. It is common with all bb shells.
BB shells distort upon welding or brazing. That has nothing to do with the BB30 spec. It is common with all bb shells.
JBD
how does one go about making their own lugs?
bellweatherman
how does one go about making their own lugs?
Well, I guess you could gas weld or Tig some tubes together. Then, cut them out in a shape of a lug. Too much effort, too little gain though. Just easier to buy the lugs that are already made.
Anyway, the BB30 shells are going to be picked up by Long Shen. And also, Paragon is probably going to make some next year. So, I'm hoping.
Well, I guess you could gas weld or Tig some tubes together. Then, cut them out in a shape of a lug. Too much effort, too little gain though. Just easier to buy the lugs that are already made.
Anyway, the BB30 shells are going to be picked up by Long Shen. And also, Paragon is probably going to make some next year. So, I'm hoping.
JBD
that was what I had thought as I don't think many are too keen on nor capable of doing investment casting in their own shops.
Also, if one is to be welding/fillet brazing tubes together, why not build the frame as such.
pity, I was hoping making lugs would be easier than that.
Also, if one is to be welding/fillet brazing tubes together, why not build the frame as such.
pity, I was hoping making lugs would be easier than that.
Peterpan1
"Also, if one is to be welding/fillet brazing tubes together, why not build the frame as such."
There isn't much reason to use lugs at the best of times, except as a look. So if one wants the lugged look it's probably as worth while to have to do a little fabrication as any of the other time wasting involved.
There isn't much reason to use lugs at the best of times, except as a look. So if one wants the lugged look it's probably as worth while to have to do a little fabrication as any of the other time wasting involved.
Thylacine
Lug builders are really keen on new technology and standards, so you should see a lugged BB30 BB shell in the next 30 years or so.
In the interim, all you need is a thick wall tube and a lathe.
None of this will matter of course when Shimano wins the new BB standard marketing war.
In the interim, all you need is a thick wall tube and a lathe.
None of this will matter of course when Shimano wins the new BB standard marketing war.
JBD
"Also, if one is to be welding/fillet brazing tubes together, why not build the frame as such."
There isn't much reason to use lugs at the best of times, except as a look. So if one wants the lugged look it's probably as worth while to have to do a little fabrication as any of the other time wasting involved.
I thought of this as I was typing, but decided to leave it in anyways...
to be perfectly honest, I think that if I wanted to build a frame with an unavailable lug, I would likely follow that route to maintain a uniform look.
Although it does seem a little odd to basically be making a potentially weaker part with what amounts to a 'sheath'
But who said anything about being rational :lol:
There isn't much reason to use lugs at the best of times, except as a look. So if one wants the lugged look it's probably as worth while to have to do a little fabrication as any of the other time wasting involved.
I thought of this as I was typing, but decided to leave it in anyways...
to be perfectly honest, I think that if I wanted to build a frame with an unavailable lug, I would likely follow that route to maintain a uniform look.
Although it does seem a little odd to basically be making a potentially weaker part with what amounts to a 'sheath'
But who said anything about being rational :lol:
Peterpan1
"Although it does seem a little odd to basically be making a potentially weaker part with what amounts to a 'sheath' "
Absolutely.
The thing is though that a tiny fillet of silver will hold tubes together, not to mention a weld, not to mention that current cast lugs were once spurned and regarded as bad, etc...
As evil as welding is to the lugs crowd, it has to be better on a larger scale. So if you have a 1.125 tube joined by means of a weld in a 1.25 tube installed with life affirming silver or bronze you just know it has to be a step in the right direction, compared to welding that puppy down at the 1.125" tube end. Surely as heinous as welding is to some (though apparently melting and casting the alloy into a lug is just fine), there has to be some joint size that would end up providing enough surface area to mitigate the effects of using state of the art welding techniques? See? Lugs are always making it a better world to live in.
Absolutely.
The thing is though that a tiny fillet of silver will hold tubes together, not to mention a weld, not to mention that current cast lugs were once spurned and regarded as bad, etc...
As evil as welding is to the lugs crowd, it has to be better on a larger scale. So if you have a 1.125 tube joined by means of a weld in a 1.25 tube installed with life affirming silver or bronze you just know it has to be a step in the right direction, compared to welding that puppy down at the 1.125" tube end. Surely as heinous as welding is to some (though apparently melting and casting the alloy into a lug is just fine), there has to be some joint size that would end up providing enough surface area to mitigate the effects of using state of the art welding techniques? See? Lugs are always making it a better world to live in.
JBD
I get the impression that you're a welder... :p
A bit of ignorance, how were lugs formed before they were cast?
A bit of ignorance, how were lugs formed before they were cast?
Peterpan1
I can do all three, or in my case five if one throws in silver fillets and gas welding. But my main entry was from outside frame building so I am not really in any of the camps. I own, for instance, a Rockwell tester. I think if a lot of framebuilders who are serious on issues like heat and impacts on metal did any testing they would be reasured.
I don't fully know how lugs were made pre casting, and I am OK on casting. I believe the method involved forming them out of sheet metal, but I could be wrong. (did a little check and on Dave Moulton's site he says they were sand cast; then when materails improved they were stamped out of sheet metal; And now investment cast.
I don't fully know how lugs were made pre casting, and I am OK on casting. I believe the method involved forming them out of sheet metal, but I could be wrong. (did a little check and on Dave Moulton's site he says they were sand cast; then when materails improved they were stamped out of sheet metal; And now investment cast.
JBD
Than you for the added information.
I think I recall reading that article a while back but didn't remember him saying the methods prior to investment casting.
If you don't mind me asking, what is your expertise from which you know all these different techniques?
I think I recall reading that article a while back but didn't remember him saying the methods prior to investment casting.
If you don't mind me asking, what is your expertise from which you know all these different techniques?
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