Long Distance Competition/Ultracycling, Randonneuring and Endurance Cycling - New Brooks saddle

In the last few years I have had a variety of saddles including a gel cover.
Many of them promised a comfortable ride, but after a long ride (metric Century, Century, and Brevets),
I found that my butt hurt. Even the next day I was still sore.
So this winter I bought a Brooks saddle.
I had heard that they were supposed to be good; but I thought that since all the other saddles I tried were more or less of equal quality, the Brooks could be only marginally better.
I rode with it on a number of short rides and did not find any discomfort with it.
However, I did have to reposition it a few times to get it where I thought it needed to be.
Then came the 200 Brevet of May 3/08.
Toward the end of the ride everything hurt -- my palms, my legs, my gut, my butt.
After riding just over 11 hours, everything should hurt. :)
A few hours after arriving at home, my butt didn't hurt nearly as bad as on other long distance rides.
Today, I can report that my butt is still OK.
And I attribute the lack of pain to the Brooks saddle.

If you are having a sore butt from a long ride, I'd suggest trying a Brooks saddle.
I wish I had switched a long time ago.

By the way, I don't work for Brooks or collect any commission for them -- maybe I should :D

Mine is in the mail.I'll let you know next week how it went. cant wait!:)

Which Brooks saddle did you get?

I got the unsprung B.17 Standard from Wallingford Bicycle Parts. To quote them:
"This is the basic Brooks saddle, and it has the lowest return rate of any of the Brooks models that we carry. It is slightly wider than is common these days. The top of saddle is smooth with three small holes for ventilation. The skirts are smooth with a stylish imprint of the brand and model. There are three variations on the B.17: The Standard, with small, hollow steel rivets ... a saddle clamp might be needed with a single rail saddle."

It is wider than the saddle that came on my Trek. I thought it might be too wide the day I opened the package, but I was willing to give it a try. I am not disappointed.

My butt doesn't hurt this year at all, neither during or after, though I haven't done my 400 yet - in a couple weeks. Specialized Avatar.

I'm happy with mine. I wasn't sure how great an idea it was to do my first metric century on a Brooks with maybe an hour of ride time on it, but all went well.

And, the honey colored Brooks with copper rivets and rails just looks SO cool!

I put a Brooks B-17 on my mountain bike and LOVED it. So I got a Selle-Anatomica for my road bike and loved it even more. I know it was a stupid thing to do but I did two short rides with the new saddle and then did a double with the new saddle. After only have maybe 40 miles on it I go and do 200. But you know it was totally comfortable. I felt great. Absolutely no pain or discomfort after 13.5 hours and 200 miles. The Selle-Anatomica is a keeper in my book. Plus it's handmade in the USA.

FYI you can have a Brooks "converted" to a Selle-Anatomica design for $50. Basically they just cut a hole in the saddle.

Got my B-17 last night. it took a while to get it just right on bike. Anyway i went on my 100k this morning and all went well. the rear portion of the saddle is really comfortable but the front portion or nose area is a different story. I guess i have to break it in right? anybody else expirienced that ? is it normal? if that area of the saddle "molds In" I'll be a very happy Brooks owner. No butt pain at all on day 1.

Got my B-17 last night. it took a while to get it just right on bike. Anyway i went on my 100k this morning and all went well. the rear portion of the saddle is really comfortable but the front portion or nose area is a different story. I guess i have to break it in right? anybody else expirienced that ? is it normal? if that area of the saddle "molds In" I'll be a very happy Brooks owner. No butt pain at all on day 1.

1. Make sure the nose of the saddle is visibly tilted up.

2. Yes a break-in process is very normal with a Brooks. Mine took me 800 kms (3 weeks) to break in.

3. You will develop divots where your sitbones are located on your saddle. That's where it "breaks in".

4. It will always be hard. The saddle never softens up. It will "give" because it is leather and there isn't a hard plastic thing underneath it preventing it from "giving", but it will never be soft.

1. Make sure the nose of the saddle is visibly tilted up.

What is the concept with this one? Is this a Brooks/leather saddle specific thing? I have traditionally had my saddles horizontal with the ground. Both my Brooks and Selle-Anatomic are positioned this way.

This joint really needs a "saddles" sticky.

What is the concept with this one? Is this a Brooks/leather saddle specific thing? I have traditionally had my saddles horizontal with the ground. Both my Brooks and Selle-Anatomic are positioned this way.

It forces you back on your sitbones ... and yes, it is a Brooks-specific thing.

I ignored it during the first week I had my Brooks ... I kept it level and just wasn't comfortable. I was actually debating about returning the saddle, but then I was advised to raise the nose of the saddle ... and comfort ensued forthwith. :)

1. Make sure the nose of the saddle is visibly tilted up.

2. Yes a break-in process is very normal with a Brooks. Mine took me 800 kms (3 weeks) to break in.

3. You will develop divots where your sitbones are located on your saddle. That's where it "breaks in".

4. It will always be hard. The saddle never softens up. It will "give" because it is leather and there isn't a hard plastic thing underneath it preventing it from "giving", but it will never be soft.

Thanks for the reply. i had the saddle tilted up a little bit last night and took it out for a test and it felt kind of funny but it wasnt for more than a mile or so. I'll try it again.

Some of us (for the thousandth time :rolleyes::D ) have trouble with Brooks because there is no tilt that works. Set up with the rear portion flat, the nose sticks up into sensitive bits. Set up with the nose flat, the rear of the saddle simply slides your sensitive bits onto the nose anyway. Even with two-bolt micro-adjust post, the saddles cannot be made comfortable for some of us.

The new one with the cutouts looks as though it may be made essentially level, without the "hammock" business that causes trouble. Until then, the Selle-Anatomica seems to be the only solution, at least for those of us that haven't found Brooks Nirvana.

That is my experience as well. Any saddle will hurt after hours on the road. But I've found that my butt recovers much faster after riding my brooks. I even notice at the later rest stops on a century. I think part of it is that the fatigue is just the sitbones which don't move much, not chafing everywhere like on a more modern saddle.

I'm just dragging this thread up because the B17 didn't do it on LD rides for me. After about 1000 miles, I put it back on my club-ride bike, and got a Selle Anatomica Titanico. The Titanico was comfortable from the first ride, and makes a huge difference on 100 mile+ rides, for me, at least.

I'm just dragging this thread up because the B17 didn't do it on LD rides for me. After about 1000 miles, I put it back on my club-ride bike, and got a Selle Anatomica Titanico. The Titanico was comfortable from the first ride, and makes a huge difference on 100 mile+ rides, for me, at least.

Saddle advice is the most sketchy of all things to give.

I have a friend who, like you, loves the Anatomicas; another who lasted a day on one and pronounced it the worst saddle he's ever had the misfortune to sit on. I have another friend who keeps going back to them, even though they disintegrate -- as (a brand new) one did for him during PBP '07, leaving him sitting on the seatpost for the last few hundred km!

In the end, it's whatever keeps you ... in the saddle.

BTW, what's with this tip the nose up advice? Never done that in more than 30 years of riding a Brooks. Sounds like a good way to crush something. Maybe I'm built "differently.":o

i use a Brooks Professional, which is slightly narrower than the B17. i had to ride about 600mi before it felt broken in to me, and even then, it doesn't look like a broken-in B17. But, for this saddle, most recommend that it does not point upward; rather, it should be flat or slightly down (with the handlebars even or slightly lower). each Brooks saddle has its idiosyncrasies, apparently, to match each rider.

...even though they disintegrate...

That the 18 inch brush you're painting with, or the 24 inch? My Selle-Anatomica is approaching 10,000 miles with no change that I can see...

That the 18 inch brush you're painting with, or the 24 inch? My Selle-Anatomica is approaching 10,000 miles with no change that I can see...

I'm not sure what size it is. It is gathered from fairly wide experience, from a large section of cyclists and working in the trade.

I've conceded that they are highly regarded by some friends. Glad yours works well.

It is well-known that the leather is not of the same quality as Brooks. Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it true that Selle Anatomica started their trade cutting holes in Brooks saddles?

It forces you back on your sitbones ... and yes, it is a Brooks-specific thing.

I ignored it during the first week I had my Brooks ... I kept it level and just wasn't comfortable. I was actually debating about returning the saddle, but then I was advised to raise the nose of the saddle ... and comfort ensued forthwith. :)


I could see how it forced you to the back of the saddle where the width is appropriate for sitbones, but I always find a raised nose causes undesireable pressure, unless I rotate my pelvis back (i.e. tuck it in). But if I do that, I get lower back discomfort. My back seems to like to be straight.

I could see how it forced you to the back of the saddle where the width is appropriate for sitbones, but I always find a raised nose causes undesireable pressure, unless I rotate my pelvis back (i.e. tuck it in). But if I do that, I get lower back discomfort. My back seems to like to be straight.

B-17's are designed with the broadest spectrum of riders in mind. Touring, commuting, even some roadbike applications are suitable for that model. Brooks recommends a slight up-tilt to the peak. Couple that with handlebars that are level with, or slightly above the peak, and you have the best starting point to proper adjustment with a 17 or Flyer.

The reason is that 17's are more flexible than higher priced competition models like the Team Pro , Swift or Swallow. Thus, when a rider mounts up, the uptilt will help roll the pelvis back onto the ischials, where it should be. The lower spine should be arched, with the upper spine at about 50degrees.

If this sounds pretty upright, then I would recommend a Team Pro. Level it. Lower the bars as much as you want, because that is a completely suitable performance saddle in that posture. They are designed for the Flat Back racing posture. Do that on a B-17 and there will likely be pressure at the perineal area.

I have no problems with my B-17, whatsoever. I have it almost perfectly level.

Again, we have a "different strokes" situation here. I own both a Pro (had it for 30+ years) and a B-17, just past it's first year. Both are level and are perfect for me. Putting up the noses would result in back problems and perinial compression.

It is well-known that the leather is not of the same quality as Brooks.

It's also well-known that Brooks has been using fairly low grade leather in recent times, and that many long-time users have expressed disappointment. At this point I do not know where to get saddles made with top-quality leather, unless it is in NOS Brooks.

It's also well-known that Brooks has been using fairly low grade leather in recent times, and that many long-time users have expressed disappointment. At this point I do not know where to get saddles made with top-quality leather, unless it is in NOS Brooks.

That may be true. I'll wait and see if my newish B-17 lasts as ong as my 31 y/o Pro:)

Still, compared to a Brooks, SA leather looks like chicken hide.

I can't tell a difference between the leather on my most recent B-17 and the leather on my Anatomica. The Anatomica uses a thin bit of moderate quality leather attached to a non-stretch layer of synthetic. My Brooks uses a thin layer of moderate quality leather. *shrug*

Saddle advice is the most sketchy of all things to give.

I have a friend who, like you, loves the Anatomicas; another who lasted a day on one and pronounced it the worst saddle he's ever had the misfortune to sit on. I have another friend who keeps going back to them, even though they disintegrate -- as (a brand new) one did for him during PBP '07, leaving him sitting on the seatpost for the last few hundred km!

In the end, it's whatever keeps you ... in the saddle.

BTW, what's with this tip the nose up advice? Never done that in more than 30 years of riding a Brooks. Sounds like a good way to crush something. Maybe I'm built "differently.":o

Nothing like a Brooks thread to get this forum fired up, eh?

I had my Brooks tipped up, because when it was flat, it had me sliding forward, and putting a ton of pressure on my hands. I think the tip back also encourages you to arch your back the way you should (http://www.sheldonbrown.com/pain.html).

I first started riding after tearing a disc. It took me a while to figure out how important this riding posture was, even though it seemed very awkward at first. Of course, back advice is even more sketchy than saddle advice. In both cases, everyone has to figure out what works for them.

I believe that it is a myth, circulating around the web-based cycling community, that Brooks saddles are using inferior grade leather blanks. While no expert, I've spent some time (2 years) in a neighbor's custom leather shop, and from what I can see, there is no practical difference in the quality of older saddles vs. the ones made recently. Without exception, every Brooks I've seen is a masterpiece within it's own parameters. Buy with confidence.

The main reason, IMO, for people getting different results from this or that setup, is simply because Brooks are made of a moldable, natural material. No rider is the same, but we are all relatively similar. Brooks recommends the same starting setup for the 17 series that I do because it makes sense for that particular blank thickness. B-17's have much more "give" than Pros or other more expensive models. They have a flatter cross section and will compress more initially, whereas a Pro will not. A 17 will work for the widest type of uses, yes, even for those who have discovered that a level saddle works best, or that they like their bars a bit lower while still using a 17. This is all good.

However, there are models mentioned that typically work better for a more aggressive posture.

...a bit more bloviating:

Titanico saddles are very good quality saddles. But, they have different characteristics than a brooks, to be sure. Again, the issue revolves around a natural, moldable material. Titanico has tried to enter a niche that is populated by riders who have, for various and sometimes questionable reasons, given up on Brooks.

This is fine. However, there used to be a universal understanding among cyclists that your saddle will need some time to break in. Due to the introduction of syntheics, we have lost that patience. Titanico saddles try to address that issue with a softer leather, requiring a laminted blank. The cut-out is a good idea for those who feel the need to have one, but must surely compromise longevity in so soft a blank.

Thus Titanico saddles may need to be tensioned sooner and more often than a Brooks, which rarely, if ever need it. As long as the tension can be maintained, riders should have no real concerns with a Titanico.

NOTE: I advise against trying to soften a Brooks.

"Still, compared to a Brooks, SA leather looks like chicken hide."

Close. I believe it's Ostrich :D

I had a Brooks Team Pro on one of my bikes, had it set up so it was bang on level from front to back, used a spirit level to do this, and it was absolutely perfect. Took it off to try a more racey saddle, but considering putting it back on.

I had a Brooks Team Pro on one of my bikes, had it set up so it was bang on level from front to back, used a spirit level to do this, and it was absolutely perfect. Took it off to try a more racey saddle, but considering putting it back on.

The Pro is designed for flat setup, lower bars.

I like my B17 and B17 Imperial saddles, and I'm sketchy about trying an An-Atomica after getting to check one out during a ride last year. (I think it was papawizo's bike I saw it on).

The only reason I'm averse to a more pliable saddle like the An-Atomica's leather-over-synthetic structure is because I'm Sasquatch. At 250 pounds, I'll mess up a saddle like nobody's business if it's designed around lighter riders. The B17 (with the sides laced) is the only saddle I've found that lasts me more than a year.

I've been up to 220 pounds while using the Anatomica. It's holding up nicely so far. Whether it will be good for five or ten years is anyone's guess.

Even though I know An-Atomica makes a decent product, I have the same skepticsm as CliftonGK1. For the same reason.:( My older 17 is a candidate for lacing, I think. Maybe next year...

i use a Brooks Professional, which is slightly narrower than the B17. i had to ride about 600mi before it felt broken in to me, and even then, it doesn't look like a broken-in B17. But, for this saddle, most recommend that it does not point upward; rather, it should be flat or slightly down (with the handlebars even or slightly lower). each Brooks saddle has its idiosyncrasies, apparently, to match each rider.

Not necessarily.. The Flyer on my '07 Sirrus is tilted slightly upward.:thumb:

You shouldn't even feel the nose of a Brooks. Adjust it so you don't slide forward or backwards, and don't feel any pressure anywhere except your sit bones. It will break in under your sit bone.

You might have the nose too high..... or the seat too high.

I bought a new B17 and began breaking it in. At first is was very hard and uncomfortable. I put it on my trainer and started working on the position: forward-back, nose up-down, etc and through the 1st 600-700 miles was still an a** hatchet. I talked to the inventor of selle anatomica and he recommended keeping it overnight in a very damp towel and then riding for several hours the next day. I remembered Mascka's comment about riding in the rain to break in a new B17. I soaked it over-night and rode it two hours the next day and now it is the most comfortable long distance saddle I have, though if I spend any time in the drops I feel some perineal pressure. I have two selle anatomica saddles and they are both very comfortable, right out of the box, but for any distance over 40 miles (2+ hours) I prefer the Brooks.

My issue has been perineal pressure. 24 hours of numbness in the nether region after a 400 km brevet was a bit concerning, and made me glad that I already had three children and was not planning on having any more. I had been riding on a Fizzik Arrone. It is a great saddle for anything up to a century for me. I switched to a Selle Anatomica before my first 600 km last year and had great success with no pain. I will say this. In less than 3000 miles of riding I have nearly extended the tensioning bolt to its limit. The seat is comfortable, but I think there is a loss of energy transfer because of the movement of the anatomica. It is just not as stable of a platform. Does that make sense? I have ridden a Brooks Team Pro in the past. I still have it, but it has cracked at the rear rivets. I thought about getting a new one, but then decided to try the Anatomica.

Any opinions on the loss of efficiency?

BlueJay
2005 Jamis Eclipse.

My issue has been perineal pressure. 24 hours of numbness in the nether region after a 400 km brevet was a bit concerning, and made me glad that I already had three children and was not planning on having any more. I had been riding on a Fizzik Arrone. It is a great saddle for anything up to a century for me. I switched to a Selle Anatomica before my first 600 km last year and had great success with no pain. I will say this. In less than 3000 miles of riding I have nearly extended the tensioning bolt to its limit. The seat is comfortable, but I think there is a loss of energy transfer because of the movement of the anatomica. It is just not as stable of a platform. Does that make sense? I have ridden a Brooks Team Pro in the past. I still have it, but it has cracked at the rear rivets. I thought about getting a new one, but then decided to try the Anatomica.

Any opinions on the loss of efficiency?

BlueJay
2005 Jamis Eclipse.

It's almost axiomatic: The softer the saddle, the less energy transferred to the work. A Brooks gives the best of both characteristics needed for a long distance saddle, those being: 1) Firm, but flexible structure, and 2) slick but wicking surface for moisture transfer away from the rider. I'd try a new Pro with the following caveat:

All saddles have their limits as to comfort and I believe it is directly correlated to individual rider tolerance. Perineal pressure is a function of doing something that is not natural - riding a bike. Working out a decent setup for centuries may not be helpfull on rides longer than that, and certainly possibly not on back-to back centuries.

That's a tough assignment for any rider or saddle.

I have a Team Professional that has been a perfect fit from the first time I sat on it. It cradles my sit bones absolutely perfectly. I am building up a long distance bike and am thinking that an Imperial might be a good idea. Does the standard or narrow correlate to the build of the Team pro?

Thanks jcm...good advice. I think I will get another Pro and try it out (break it in) and see how it performs on those longer than a century rides...

Based on the posts in the PBP 2011 thread I may not want to go all that fast anyway. I will want to be comfortable and be able to enjoy the views of all my rides!!

BlueJay66

I have a Team Professional that has been a perfect fit from the first time I sat on it. It cradles my sit bones absolutely perfectly. I am building up a long distance bike and am thinking that an Imperial might be a good idea. Does the standard or narrow correlate to the build of the Team pro?

The Imperial is a modified B-17 Standard. It has a thinner blank and a flatter cross-sectional arch than a Team Pro. 17's are wider and longer than Pro's. Time will tell, but I believe that the edges of the cut-out will actually form somewhat of a radius which should increase the comfort factor on long trips. The lacing will be necessary to keep that saddle from collapsing. I would use nothing on that saddle except some clear boot polish now and again. No "softeners" or "conditioners" of any kind - including Brooks' Proofide.