Classic & Vintage - Amusing Pie-Plate rant on BikeSnobNYC

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2008/04/pie-in-sky-world-without-spoke.html

C&V highlight:

The Old Road Bike Pie Plate

While I have a zero tolerance policy when it comes to pie plates, I also understand that not everybody realizes they need to be removed. Sadly, too few bike shops take it upon themselves to do it or to educate their customers. Hopefully, one day that will change, and I for one am trying to do my part by raising public awareness. But in the meantime I think a grace period between new bike purchase and pie plate removal is warranted. Let’s call it six months. By that time you should have either figured out your pie plate needs to go, or you should have had to remove or change your cassette for some reason, in which case (hopefully) logic would dictate a pie platectomy.

After that, though, you are in clear violation. I regularly see road bikes that are five, ten, even twenty years old that still have pie plates on them. If your bike has both downtube shifters and a pie plate on it, you are exhibiting a disregard for propriety that is nearly inhuman. Only a sociopath could be capable of such a thing. In fact, while I believe we cyclists should regulate ourselves, in this case I think the perpetrator should be turned over to the police. According to the controversial “broken window” theory, chances are someone with a yellowed pie plate on a twenty year-old bicycle is also guilty of something else. He’s probably also using an Italian crank on a JIS spindle, planning a bank robbery, and keeping kidnapping victims duct-taped in his basement.

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2008/04/pie-in-sky-world-without-spoke.html

C&V highlight:

The Old Road Bike Pie Plate

I regularly see road bikes that are five, ten, even twenty years old that still have pie plates on them. If your bike has both downtube shifters and a pie plate on it, you are exhibiting a disregard for propriety that is nearly inhuman.

I take exception. Bikes older than 20 years are exempt. Besides, I love jewelry and adornments hung artfully on those about whom I care deeply.

This guy, he probably likes his SO not to shave--anywhere. And no jewelry, either. And I bet he's a food fascist too-no gluten, no peanuts and the zenith of NYC urban hip Johnny Come Lately political correctness, no truck with anything or anyone north of Hunts Point.

I mean, look at this Suntour beauty original to a 1984 Miyata 610...

http://lh5.ggpht.com/steve.drucker/R-pTnD-egfI/AAAAAAAAB2o/q2fV7PM8jD0/s800/suntour%20spoke%20protector-1.JPG

mmm, i like pie.

So what's the issue with spoke protectors? Aren't they functional, after all? Or are they just some useless appendage that no right-thinking cyclist would want cluttering the beauty of her/his machine?

So what's the issue with spoke protectors? Aren't they functional, after all? Or are they just some useless appendage that no right-thinking cyclist would want cluttering the beauty of her/his machine?

They're only functional for someone who keeps their derailler adjusted so it goes into the spokes.

On a properly set-up bike they have no use or purpose. They're usually a sign of a rider uninvolved with their machine. Kinda like adding streamers; no harm really, but you're still a dork.

Not on an old Schwinn they are a part of the bling when all cleaned and polished. The plastic ones really suck though

They're only functional for someone who keeps their derailler adjusted so it goes into the spokes.

On a properly set-up bike they have no use or purpose. They're usually a sign of a rider uninvolved with their machine. Kinda like adding streamers; no harm really, but you're still a dork.


And yet the story I always hear is that the derailleur got bumped and the guy shifted into his spokes and ruined a wheel. After a rant like that, someone will probably find where Mr. Bikesnob parks and "adjust" his derailleur just a titch.

Me? I love 'em. The more garish the better. I wish I could figure out a way to put them on modern bikes -- big chrome jobs.

Dork disk art:

http://web.mit.edu/nlerner/Public/Bikes/DorkDisks2.jpg

Neal

I only have one "pie plate" bike, my Nishiki. I did the same thing I did in 1973, I took that ugly thing off! Only this time I hung it on my workbench with all the crank sets.

The ONLY ones I would even tolerate are the really small ones used on early 60's Schwinns. They kept the chain from overshifting into the spokes and did nothing to keep your RD out of the spokes. That is what adjustments are for.

They're only functional for someone who keeps their derailler adjusted so it goes into the spokes.

On a properly set-up bike they have no use or purpose. They're usually a sign of a rider uninvolved with their machine. Kinda like adding streamers; no harm really, but you're still a dork.
And yet the story I always here is that the derailleur got bumped and the guy shifted into his spokes and ruined a wheel. After a rant like that, someone will probably find where Mr. Bikesnob parks and "adjust" his derailleur just a titch.

Me? I love 'em. The more garish the better. I wish I could figure out a way to put them on modern bikes -- big chrome jobs.My thought was along those lines-- most people do not maintain their own bikes. While it might make some aesthetic sense for an attentive mechanic to remove the spoke protector, I think there's a very large class of people out there who would benefit from a spoke protector if their derailleur went out of adjustment without their knowledge. If that's true, I don't really see the point of looking down one's nose at people who aren't attentive mechanics but are riding their bikes. It's kind of...snobbish. :p

This guy, he probably likes his SO not to shave--anywhere. And no jewelry, either. And I bet he's a food fascist too-no gluten, no peanuts and the zenith of NYC urban hip Johnny Come Lately political correctness, no truck with anything or anyone north of Hunts Point.

I mean, look at this Suntour beauty original to a 1984 Miyata 610...

I notice that your beauty is not on a bike! Is it a wall queen?

Actually, I think that the Bike Snob is quite funny, and also self-deprecating. Did you read the part in the linked blog above about the Fixed Gear Pie Plate? Or this one about the "winner" of the non-competitive Five Boro Bike Tour?
http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2008/05/dominating-unwitting-winning-five-boro.html

Now, I think that's cycling humor at its apex.

I save each and every one, but I don't run them. Save for the factory SunTour unit on the '80 Super Course, Can't bring myself to take it off!

would benefit from a spoke protector if their derailleur went out of adjustment without their knowledge.:p

Just curious how that might happen? The adjustment screw creates a stop for the derailler, keeping it from moving too far to hit the spokes or put the chain behind the freewheel or stick it between the freewheel and the frame. The stiff springs on the screws keep them from moving off the set adjustment. In over 30 years I don't think I've had a derailler go out of adjustment without my knowledge! Granted, if a bike is damaged those alignments will change. But even if you lose all tension on the cable and it shifts to the highest gear, the derailler is still contained by those limit screws.

I imagine the dork discs were added (actually, they had em even in the fifties, but they were pretty small and all metal) because the dork would try to "fix" their bike by twidling with the screws without knowing their purpose or setup. In that case, the disc would prevent damage when it went into the spokes. But it was the first thing removed by any "serious" cyclist since their invention.

mmm, i like pie.


I like pie too.
and I can't eat it without a plate.
Unless it's late night snacking where I eat it out of the pie tin with a fork.

so what is the ugliest dork disk? I think I need some negative adornment on that fancy-schmancy carbon record 10...

Not on an old Schwinn they are a part of the bling when all cleaned and polished.

Exactly. On Schwinn lightweights they provide a visual balance for the chainguard ring. Take it off and it's like a '57 Chevy without a grille bar.

Weight savings? What a complete load of cobbles; leave your wallet home or skip that second cup of coffee and you've broken even. It's nothing more than weight weenie snobbery.

so what is the ugliest dork disk? I think I need some negative adornment on that fancy-schmancy carbon record 10...

I can send you a discolored and cracked plastic one from a mountain bike I'm building for someone. :p :D

is this a byproduct of the sterilization of the ssfg board? i could care less whether others roll a spoke protector. I myself don't.

have you guys ever seen the Campy pie plate?
http://www.velostuf.com/DSCN0454.JPG

that would look sweet on a fixie with an aerospoke :D

have you guys ever seen the Campy pie plate?


Dang, that looks expensive!

have you guys ever seen the Campy pie plate?



I was gonna say that I'd only allow one on one of my bikes if it was to be used with a Cambio Corsa or Paris-Roubaix shifter. Coincidentally, I'm after one (a Campy dork disk) for just such an application. If anyone's got a spare, feel free to PM me!!!

I notice that your beauty is not on a bike! Is it a wall queen?



Nope. This past winter, in the process of Rivendell-izing (off topic--see recent Rivendell thread for context) the '84 Miyata 610 with a new wheelset and 8 speed cassette, it came off permanently.

'After' shot:
http://lh5.ggpht.com/steve.drucker/R_E9NT-eg7I/AAAAAAAAB7E/vZa4rVgV8Kw/s800/miyata-610-after-1.JPG

Struck by its unusual design, I eBayed it figuring some foreign collector would spend enough to buy me another Brooks or something. Listed it twice at 4.95 and not one bid.

'Before' shot:
http://lh6.ggpht.com/steve.drucker/Rt2KECgsnEI/AAAAAAAAADU/xBUI9NXmoNk/s800/IMG_2612.JPG

So now I'm gonna keep it. Screw 'em. People diss plastic all the time. They don't get it. Plastic is immortal. Plastic is cool. Plastic is timeless...
http://lh5.ggpht.com/steve.drucker/R-pTnD-egfI/AAAAAAAAB2o/q2fV7PM8jD0/s800/suntour%20spoke%20protector-1.JPG

They're only functional for someone who keeps their derailler adjusted so it goes into the spokes.

Not necessarily true. I've had my chain go into the spokes more than once as a result of a series of bad bumps, despite the derailleur being adjusted properly. What's wrong with someone wanting to protect their nice wheel? Also, I don't think the old metal ones look bad at all, as long as they're in decent shape.

Some of them look pretty good.

http://www3.telus.net/zig-zag/Sekine.jpg

I believe this thread warrents some shop such as Rivendell or VeloOrange to begin making really classy, yet not overly large, spoke protectors. The Campagnolo one is a beauty that I imagine most of us would be proud to display on our vintage rides. Other designs merit consideration.

I agree with Charles Wahl, I believe the OP was serving up plently of "tongue in cheek." Great job!

Some of them look pretty good.

http://www3.telus.net/zig-zag/Sekine.jpg

First Prize!

I happen to like leaving them on some classics...Shiny one's are especially cool

http://http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/bigwoo2/bikes143.jpg

http://http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/bigwoo2/CIMG0378.jpg

http://http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l42/bigwoo2/supersport.jpg

To each his own. After having to rebuild a wheel that I had performed the pieplateectomy on, I'll keep the cheap insurance. FWIW, I had been riding that same bike for a year with no problems and had never touched the limit screws.

There is so much to lose to gain a little coolness with the C&V hipsters.

How can you not dig the Sekine pie plate!
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b400/fj40/DSC01932.jpg

I was gonna say that the only ones I will tolerate are those used with a Cambio Corsa or Paris-Roubaix shifter. ...

A pie plate also makes a lot of sense with a normal-low rear derailleur, such as an old Simplex or Cyclo bandspring unit, because a slip or snap of the cable will send the chain right into the spokes.

For guys like me with 25 year old wheels this all assumes I have no trouble, and all the tools, to easily remove freewheels. On the other hand, since I have all these old wheels I suppose I better get ALL the tools I need to service them!

I agree with Charles Wahl, I believe the OP was serving up plently of "tongue in cheek." Great job!

I only cut and pasted--but I am addicted to this guy's blog. In the rest of the rant, he goes off mostly on pie plates of the X-mart type, and the C&V types seem to receive a rather tame ribbing.

Those Sekine plates are neat. I think a niche market would be born if you could order modern ones like personalized plates. Maybe you could have "Dork Disc" spelled out on it?

Meh, my modern bike has an ugly, plastic one. I put the cassette on without it once, but made a point to remember to reinstall it the next time I had the wheel off. Like mparker326
(http://www.bikeforums.net/member.php?u=65544) said, it's cheap insurance against an unlikely event. It may look cooler without it, but no one looks cool dragging their broken bike home.

I can definitely see the appeal of some of these older, chrome ones. Very pretty.

But then my daily commuter is pure function and little or no form. I guess if I was trying to make a bike as pretty as possible, I'd consider leaving it off. Also I'd consider keeping the bike off the road, out of the elements, in a glass case ... No, maybe not.

This weekend at the MS150 I saw a black one that only went as high as the tallest gear. Stealth, and it would at least keep the chain from lodging between the spokes and cassette.

I leave the old metal ones on and polish them up for a little bling on the back wheel. The plastic ones, I don't even waste my time removing the cassette - I just crack them off with a pair of pliers right away and throw them in the trash (while making sure the screw stops are set correctly).
They look hideous once it starts to yellow. :cry:

More often than not I see these plastic dork discs on maladjusted department store bikes and the deraileur has slammed into it and cracked because the owner assumed they should be able to ride it as it came.

Now I feel like a dork for buying an unwanted pie plate off eBay. :p

And I'll bet some of you feel like dorks for not selling your unwanted pie plates on eBay. ;)

To each his own. After having to rebuild a wheel that I had performed the pieplateectomy on, I'll keep the cheap insurance. FWIW, I had been riding that same bike for a year with no problems and had never touched the limit screws.

There is so much to lose to gain a little coolness with the C&V hipsters.My dad designed and built machinery. One thing I learned from watching him is that good engineers build multiple failsafes into their machines. Not-so-good engineers build machines that fail when something goes wrong.

My dad designed and built machinery. One thing I learned from watching him is that good engineers build multiple failsafes into their machines. Not-so-good engineers build machines that fail when something goes wrong.

+1

I take the plastic brittle pie plates off as part of cleaning up the wheel. If it's metal / chrome I may replace it. The nasty plastic ones keep the bike from showing nicely on craigslist.

Personally, I think they are ugly. I take them off. They do have a purpose, but I think the risk is small enough to not worry about it. If I rode off road and banged up my derailer a lot, then I might keep them on, since the risk of bending the hanger and pushing the derailer into the wheel is greater.

I think the risk is small enough to not worry about it.

On a properly adjusted VLW, it does not serve any purpose whatsoever.

Properly adjusted indicates that the derailer and hanger are straight, and that the low stop is adjusted absolutely no farther left of the largest cog then exactly centerline (if not slightly to the right, if it operates correctly at such a setting).

-Kurt

I disagree with you cudak888. A properly adjusted limit would stop the derailer from hitting the spokes, but accidents happen, bending the hanger. Screws can become loose and allowing the derailer to go beyond the initial limit. It is very easy to hit a rock with your derailer while moutain biking. The spoke protector is not about stopping a properly adjusted derailer, it is about safety and prevention from failures and accidents.

It's almost like saying that there is no need for seatbelts because if you don't wreck, you won't need them.

" pieplateectomy™ "

I disagree with you cudak888. A properly adjusted limit would stop the derailer from hitting the spokes, but accidents happen, bending the hanger. Screws can become loose and allowing the derailer to go beyond the initial limit. It is very easy to hit a rock with your derailer while moutain biking. The spoke protector is not about stopping a properly adjusted derailer, it is about safety and prevention from failures and accidents.


Loose screws = bad derailer. I wouldn't use a derailer that has adjustment screws that spin too freely. Pie-plate or not, the next place your chain might find itself is wedged between your freewheel and frame if adjustment screws are too loose.

For that matter, any event that might have bent a hanger should be inspected immidiately in the first place. Finding out that your RD is bent after the fact is foolish.

Mind you, I stressed my points for vintage lightweights (doesn't anyone pay attention to italics anymore?), not mountain bikes. That's a completely different issue wherein your hanger may become bent whist one is in the process of riding the bike. I never said the pie-plate did not have a worthy place on MTB's.



It's almost like saying that there is no need for seatbelts because if you don't wreck, you won't need them.

Seatbelts restrain passengers in a crash. If you crash or 'wipe it' on your VLW, the protector is not going to help. The pie-plate only becomes a worthwhile factor after damage or ill maintenance happens to the bike in order to prevent further accidents.

Take care,

-Kurt

It doesn't matter if you check the derailer right away. So you are merrily riding on the mountain, you hit a rock and the derailer goes into the spokes. There is no time to stop and check. It already happened. Now you have a bent derailer hanger. What do you do, walk the bike home? Or ride the bike but remember not to use the gears that will cause the derailer to go into the spokes? I would ride it. But I accidentally shift into the wrong gear and into the spokes it goes.
Screws do become loose, especially screws that are not torqued. That is why loctite is put on them, to help keep them from moving, but it still happens. Should you check before riding, probably, but I doubt many people do. It is just a simple safety feature. There are many safety features that should never be used. But they are there for accidents and stupidity. If everyone did what is correct and proper, we wouldn't need any safety feature.
Right, just like a seatbelt. The crash happened and the seatbelt is there to prevent more damage to you. Just like the spoke protector is there to protect the spokes after something happens to cause the derailer to go past the limit. Same idea of stopping further damage.

I'll say it again, I've had a chain go into the spokes on a bike with a properly set up derailleur, straight hanger, and properly adjusted limiting screws. It had nothing to do with shifting or derailleur adjustment, yet it still happened. Once on my Mongoose commuter when I went over a bumpy patch riding up the hill behind my apartments, and another time on my Nishiki when the chain actually bounced out of the derailleur cage at the lower pulley, which in turn threw everything out of whack and sent the chain into the spokes as well. Luckily on the Nishiki I still had the original dork disk in place.

It doesn't matter if you check the derailer right away. So you are merrily riding on the mountain, you hit a rock and the derailer goes into the spokes.

No offense intended, but your response reads as if you did not read my reply. Read my comments above again about my comments, and pay particular attention to my comments about pie plates on MTB's.


Right, just like a seatbelt. The crash happened and the seatbelt is there to prevent more damage to you. Just like the spoke protector is there to protect the spokes after something happens to cause the derailer to go past the limit. Same idea of stopping further damage.

That wasn't what I said, but I won't argue over the matter - that's what we have the A&S forum for :rolleyes:

-Kurt

It doesn't matter if it is a mountain bike or new carbon bike or a vintage lightweight bike. Things happen, a derailer hanger can be bent. I'm just using the mountain bike as an example of something that can cause the derailer to go into the spokes. If you wish, we can change mountain bike for Schwinn Prelude and rock to curb. It still throws the derailer into the spokes. You can still accidentally shift to the gears that will cause this. The protector can save the spokes. It can also save you from crashing.

That is what you said. You said that seatbelts prevent further damage to a person during a wreck. I said that spoke protectors can prevent further damage during an accident. If I am mistaken that you said seatbelts protect from further damage during and accident or I did not say it clearly that spoke protectors prevent further damge during an accident. I apologize but it looks like that is what you meant and what I said.

Now I feel like a dork for buying an unwanted pie plate off eBay. :p

And I'll bet some of you feel like dorks for not selling your unwanted pie plates on eBay. ;)

It is completely okay to feel like a dork. You play with old, preferably broken, bicycles. You are a dork.

And, of course, the rest of us are too. There, isn't that liberating?

For the rest of you, just never, ever shift to the biggest cog in the back.

you'll never need that dork disk.

That Sekine disk is pretty cool.

I see there isn't a special section for these over at VeloBase.

(Just kidding ;))