hill gradients

[coasting]

I've seen a few posts mentioning monster steep hills of 20%. This really confuses me because I once found a hill that was so steep (but thankfully short) it was hard even to walk up. The road sign said 10% so I can't imagine 20%. Is this a bit of BF exaggeration?

Can someone post some pics of steep hills and state their gradients?

Thanks

[Tom Stormcrowe]

I can't post a Pic, but there is a hill over near SeaTac, in Wa State that has a very short 21% grade on it.

There are sections of some of the secondary road climbs throughout the various Mountain areas that had short sections of 20+%.

[thePig]

It can be really hard to tell the gradient from a photo. On a bike (particularly when it is loaded) 10% or more is steep and anyone that says otherwise is lying. There are very hills / mountains that have gradients of more than 10% for any great distance.

Anyway, have posted photo which has a good sideways view of a road. The stretch going from right to left is 15%. This came after cycling 4 miles at 10%....I was in pain.

[CliftonGK1]

I can't post a Pic, but there is a hill over near SeaTac, in Wa State that has a very short 21% grade on it.

There are sections of some of the secondary road climbs throughout the various Mountain areas that had short sections of 20+%.

Downtown Seattle coming off the ferry docks, try heading up Marion St. or Yesler Way, sections of 30%+ grade.

IIRC:
10% = 1.2" rise per 1' of run
20% = 2.4" rise per 1' of run
30% = 3.6" rise per 1' of run

[The Historian]

I've seen a few posts mentioning monster steep hills of 20%. This really confuses me because I once found a hill that was so steep (but thankfully short) it was hard even to walk up. The road sign said 10% so I can't imagine 20%. Is this a bit of BF exaggeration?

Can someone post some pics of steep hills and state their gradients?

Thanks

A formula for grade calculations taken from somewhere on the Internet:

***
grade = vertical_climb / horizontal_distance

where both vertical_climb and horizontal_distance are both converted to
the same measurement units. So if a hill goes up 264 feet in 2 miles,
then we can first convert 2 miles to 10560 feet -- so the grade is then
0.025 = 264 feet / 10560 feet, which is 2.5%.
***
Keep in mind you can have more than a 100 per cent grade. The grade of a 90 degree angle is infinite. A 100 percent grade is a 45 degree angle, where one foot of horizontal distance climbs one foot.

[mkadam68]

It can be really hard to tell the gradient from a photo. On a bike (particularly when it is loaded) 10% or more is steep and anyone that says otherwise is lying. There are very hills / mountains that have gradients of more than 10% for any great distance.

Anyway, have posted photo which has a good sideways view of a road. The stretch going from right to left is 15%. This came after cycling 4 miles at 10%....I was in pain.Amen, brutha!

I've seen a few posts mentioning monster steep hills of 20%. This really confuses me because I once found a hill that was so steep (but thankfully short) it was hard even to walk up. The road sign said 10% so I can't imagine 20%. Is this a bit of BF exaggeration?

Can someone post some pics of steep hills and state their gradients?

Thanks

There are quite a few of them around. Usually, though, anything approaching 20% is for a very short distance, especially here in the US. Like 20 yards or something. I have (somehow) ridden up a local climb here in SoCal, called May Canyon. It has a couple very short pitches of 22-21%, like maybe 10-yards or so. Most of the climbing is around 7% with shallow sections thrown in for an overall average of like 4-5%. I'm afraid I don't have any pics, as I was busy doing other things at the time. :D

Here's the hardest climb according to climbbybike.com: the Scanuppia - Malga Palazzo (http://climbbybike.com/climb.asp?Col=Scanuppia---Malga-Palazzo&qryMountainID=3597) in Italy (7.5km, 17.6% avg):

http://climbbybike.com/profile_520/Scanuppia_-_Malga_Palazzo_profile.jpg

http://climbbybike.com/mountainpictures/Scanuppia_Malga_Palazzo_7.jpg

[Jay68442]

The June 08 issue of Bicycling magazine listed the 5 hardest climbs in the US.
1. Canton Ave, Pittsburgh 35% grade for a tenth of a mile
2. Kingsley Hill Rd MA. 19.2% grade for a 1/2 mile
3. Lincoln Gap East VT 16% for 1 mile
4. Mt. Washington NH, 12.1% for 5 miles
5. Onion Valley Rd. CA, 8.3% for 10 miles

The most I have seen is 12% on a ride I did just the other night. Unless you are using a computer with an altimeter you would just be guessing.

[rm -rf]

Since I ride past this hill often, I measured the grade on this hill with a level, measuring the height on the low side with the 4 foot level horizontal. (See other discussions in BF: the difference between measuring along the slope or measuring the horizontal distance is minor) Grade = height / horizontal distance

This is Monastery Street in Cincinnati. The bottom section is a consistent 18% grade. I can climb it quite easily in my 34 - 26 gear, but I'm balancing on the bike, going about 3 mph, with only one pedal stroke a second (30 rpm).

http://lh6.ggpht.com/jim859n/SCRWtwA6atI/AAAAAAAAAm0/yGf-a5BhoTk/test%20before%20vacation%20471.jpg?imgmax=512

http://lh5.ggpht.com/jim859n/SCRWugA6auI/AAAAAAAAAm8/uARMKfnJjE8/test%20before%20vacation%20472.jpg?imgmax=512
It's really difficult to show the grade. I kept the camera horizontal.

* * * * * *
I posted this link recently in BF. I really like this picture:

Check out Canton Avenue in Pittsburgh. It's 37%

They include it on the Dirty Dozen hill climb. Youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxWceFTkLRU&feature=related) --wow.

http://www.theinternetjournalist.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/1403140318_e5d854bbcd.jpg

[CliftonGK1]

http://www.csgnetwork.com/inclinedeclinegradecalc.html

That's my favourite incline/decline calculator.


Hey, rm -rf if you ever get to the west side of Cincinnati try Grand Ave. in Delhi, from Queen City Blvd up to W. 8th St. 419 feet of gain in 1.5 miles, with a couple of 15% sections thrown in for fun.
In the summer my friends and I used to bike it, and when they'd close it down during the snow emergencies in the winter, we'd see if we could make our way up it in our Jeeps.

[deraltekluge]

From the Cascade Bicycle Club (http://cascade.org/Home/):

Seattle's Highest Hills and Steepest Grades (http://cascade.org/Community/links/hills.html)

East Roy Street between 25th Avenue and 26th Avenue on the east side of Capitol Hill @ 26%
East Boston Street between Harvard and Broadway on the west side of Capitol Hill @ 23.8%
The Queen Anne Counterbalance (Queen Anne Avenue near Galer Street) @ 18.5%

[deraltekluge]

...the difference between measuring along the slope or measuring the horizontal distance is minor) Grade = height / horizontal distance It's the difference between the sine of the angle and the tangent of the angle, and it is indeed minor for small angles. http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/K-12/airplane/sincos.html

[keithm0]

Notable climbs in the Seattle area: http://www.bicycleclimbs.com/ClimbLists.aspx

[kokomo61]

I've been using this ride (http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Blueridger-8-5-07) to train for a hilly century coming up. (check out the elevation profile!) Most of the ride is do-able, but there's one section that comes right after a tough 8-10% climb. It flattens out to 3-5% for about a mile, then as soon as I saw the next section, I said - "you've gotta be shiatting me." It looks like it goes straight up, but it varies between 12-15%, and tops out at 17%.

There's another section that's similar, but mercifully shorter. Again, a 13-15% climb. At least that's what the Garmin says.

[funrover]

Now I want to try these hills!

[Tom Stormcrowe]

My policy is it's better NOT to know, until after you've climbed it. ;)

[Tom Stormcrowe]

Here's one of my training hills. 111 feet rise in 629.2 feet, or a 17.64% grade. It's nasty, believe me. Turn on the elevation.

http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united-states/in/lafayette/526734181563

[The Historian]

Here's one of my training hills. 111 feet rise in 629.2 feet, or a 17.64% grade. It's nasty, believe me. Turn on the elevation.

http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united-states/in/lafayette/526734181563

The short hill on Lucas Road that troubled me so much last year is about 16-20 percent.

[zeroncali]

Here's one of my training hills. 111 feet rise in 629.2 feet, or a 17.64% grade. It's nasty, believe me. Turn on the elevation.

I just did a google street view of that ride, pretty nice looking.

[piette]

This is one of my regular daily routes:

http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united-states/wi/kaukauna/416793492

Their is two climbs that are 12% according to my Trek ACH and numerous climbs of 8-9%

Jeff

[coasting]

Woa! Some seriously nasty looking hills especially Mkadam's. Remind me never to ride in seattle. I do have a friend there who asked me to visit but he's not a cyclist.

Those 15%+ pics look about the steepness of part of the hill i was on. Maybe the road sign was average for the hill because the early part looked less steep but half way up it looked like some of the pics. Thankfully there are no long hills that go on for miles round my routes. All the hills are less than a mile. But going up and down lots of short sharp hills for miles still knocks the stuffing out of me! I could avoid the steep ones by sticking to the main roads but thts not as scenic. I would rather go along the patchwork of country lanes through the villages and stop at the pub when it gets too much.

Have you ever felt that you just can't turn the pedal even standing? It happened to me when I first got clipless and panic set in when I realised what was about to happen...the crank stopped, desperately tried to get my foot out with no forward momentum and a 0 mph keeling over in slow motion. Right in front of the village pub with everyone outside enjoying the sun. Oh the shame of it.

[CliftonGK1]

My daily route home takes me up 4 of the better hills in Redmond, WA

Woodinville-Duvall Rd. from 522 to Avondale
128th from Avondale to Red-Wood Rd.
116th from Red-Wood Rd. to Avondale
finish with either 133rd St, Novelty Hill, or Union Hill to Redmond Ridge.

None of them are really steep killer-hills, but they're all 7-10% average for at least 1 mile with a short steep section thrown in for fun.

[Tom Stormcrowe]

Actually, wouldn't a vertical grade be undefined? X/0=undefined, after all.A formula for grade calculations taken from somewhere on the Internet:

***
grade = vertical_climb / horizontal_distance

where both vertical_climb and horizontal_distance are both converted to
the same measurement units. So if a hill goes up 264 feet in 2 miles,
then we can first convert 2 miles to 10560 feet -- so the grade is then
0.025 = 264 feet / 10560 feet, which is 2.5%.
***
Keep in mind you can have more than a 100 per cent grade. The grade of a 90 degree angle is infinite. A 100 percent grade is a 45 degree angle, where one foot of horizontal distance climbs one foot.

[Huzzah]

I'm so thankful I don't live around some of these inclines as they kill me! I am planning on working some regular hill riding into my weekly ride. Doing a little poking around I found a good explanation of why they use gradient instead of just giving the angle of incline.

"The reason for using percent of incline instead of angle, is that percent gives a direct way to assess the
effort required to move forward against the grade, whereas the angle in degrees does not readily reveal
this information. For example; a 5% grade requires a forward force equal to 5% of the weight of the
object (above and beyond the force it takes to overcome surface resistance on flat ground at the same
speed)."

Source: http://www.geocities.com/sidestreetluge/grade.html#table

[Jay68442]

Here is one of my regular rides. There is one climb that is 12%, you see it around mile 7. But the beginning of the ride hurts the most. It varies between 2-5% for the first 2+ miles.
http://www.mapmyride.com/view_route?r=11039584 (http://www.mapmyride.com/view_route?r=11039584)

[landshark1]

Why can't they just rate hills by degrees?

[Feathers]

a garmin 305 belonging to a fellow rider says hills we've climbed are at a 26% and now i don't know whether that device provides an accurate measure or not.

[The Historian]

Actually, wouldn't a vertical grade be undefined? X/0=undefined, after all.

Yes, you are right.

[Tom Stormcrowe]

Why can't they just rate hills by degrees?

Because it would be an additional equation?

This way, it's a simple Algebra slope formula with 2 known variables, and to convert to degrees, you'd have to use trig. ;)

rise/run=slope or grade.

Now, it can get more interesting as well an figure out sections of a variable slope as well, with either integral notation (More compact, below), using a combination of formula, IIRC, or a whole combination series of datapoints in a polynomial expression. I may not have the notation exactly right, I acknowlege.....



∫▒〖a⃡b〗( y=mX+b)
m=y₂-y₁/x₂-x₁

[deraltekluge]

Actually, wouldn't a vertical grade be undefined? X/0=undefined, after all.That depends on whether you're a mathematician or a real person. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v102/deraltekluge/Avatars/whistling.gif

[deraltekluge]

Why can't they just rate hills by degrees?The slope is just the tangent of the angle...you can convert back and forth as desired. Use a calculator to find tangents and arctangents. The Windows calculator can be set to "Scientific" in its "View" menu, and then can do those conversions. If you have the slope in %, just divide by 100, check the "Inv" box, then click "tan". It'll give the angle in radians or in degrees.

[Zin]

A regular ride of mine near my home is the Red Rocks State Park just west of Denver. The roads on the inside of the park are generally steep. Average grade for my normal route is 10%. It does have one short nasty section that is 15% and several 1/4 mile sections of 13%.

Short-n-steep is one thing. How about 6% for 18 miles. Nothing like a good 2 hour climb to get your heart pumping. :D Juniper Squaw Pass just outside of Evergreen, CO.

EDIT: Forgot to mention. I did "The Hilly Hundred" in southern Indiana in 2006. Several interesting climbs on this ride. The "BIG CLIMB" is a hill they call MT. TABOR which is right at 22% for about 1/8th of a mile.

[tomdaniels]

Here's one of my training hills. 111 feet rise in 629.2 feet, or a 17.64% grade. It's nasty, believe me. Turn on the elevation.

http://www.mapmyride.com/ride/united-states/in/lafayette/526734181563

+100.

I cut my adult biking teeth getting in and out of the wabash valley. I tended to take the back way into campus under the coal chute, but have done many others. The other side of the valley is just as grueling. In a few months though, I gained a lot of strength by commuting 3 times/week. One climb in the morning and another in the afternoon as we lived across the valley from Purdue.

I pounded so hard on my old navigator that I needed lots of warranty work. The crew at Hodson's Bay in West Lafayette were awesome in this regard.:thumb:

[StephenH]

While living in Colorado for several years, I don't think I ever saw a marked grade greater than 12%. That was on a gravel road, seems like I went up it in first or second gear in the Escort.

Things can seem a lot steeper than they are, both in hiking and in riding. The local bike path has one little swoop where it goes through a low-water-crossing that I measured at 20% maximum. But that's only 8 or 10 feet vertically, so it's no problem on a bike, more so on a unicycle.