View Full Version : How do you afford to live in So. Cal?
chirojeremy
05-10-08, 10:51 AM
I like Oregon, New Mexico, and Idaho, in no particular order. :)
I have never really been to any of those places except for New Mexico just passing through on my way to CO from Amarillo. I only saw the upper NW corner, but I liked the Mountains in Raton. I doubt I would want to live there though...
alicestrong
05-10-08, 11:00 AM
I like Oregon, New Mexico, and Idaho, in no particular order. :)
Portland, Bisbee, Moab...
rooftest
05-10-08, 12:14 PM
His hours were 9:30-12:30 then from 3-6pm.
So it's a new patient every 1.2 minutes? Riight....
Well, if he gets $70 from each client, then that's $21,000 of gross revenue a day, $105,000 weekly. Not too bad. I'm gonna have to agree with the skeptics that say this isn't possible.
Even if it was true, that's 50 patients an hour - I haven't seen any large multiple-doctor offices that can handle this large a load. (Think of all the rooms the office would need.)
chirojeremy
05-10-08, 01:14 PM
So it's a new patient every 1.2 minutes? Riight....
Well, if he gets $70 from each client, then that's $21,000 of gross revenue a day, $105,000 weekly. Not too bad. I'm gonna have to agree with the skeptics that say this isn't possible.
Even if it was true, that's 50 patients an hour - I haven't seen any large multiple-doctor offices that can handle this large a load. (Think of all the rooms the office would need.)
Why would I make this up? This was not even on topic. My dad had what was a pretty high volume practice before he passed away. He saw 322 pts per WEEK, not DAY. His record in a day was 80 or something like that. He charged $40-50 per visit. He told me while he was in school about how he was going to see over 100pts per day and make all this money per month and I said the same thing. He said you should start going to school to be a chiro too! I said I will think about it when I see you do it. Well needless to say within 6 months he was making $50k in a month. Granted, he had a lot of overhead and taxes, but he still took home over 50% of that. Actually he reinvested it into the office in the way of an x ray machine, 2nd clinic etc. This doc had at least 20 patients there in his waiting room. At one point it was so full there were no more chairs left and the new people coming in the door had to stand and wait. I was only there for an hour and I must have seen at least 40 people come in/out those doors. The atmosphere was very positive and up beat. People were chatting to pass the time and it all worked like clock work. That is a sign of proper management...
Metric Man
05-10-08, 01:16 PM
I would eventually like to sell everything and get the hell out of Ca. :D
++1 on this! I've been in California 51 years and if I last another 5 it will be too long. :thumb:
Why would I make this up? This was not even on topic. My dad had what was a pretty high volume practice before he passed away. He saw 322 pts per WEEK, not DAY. His record in a day was 80 or something like that. He charged $40-50 per visit. He told me while he was in school about how he was going to see over 100pts per day and make all this money per month and I said the same thing. He said you should start going to school to be a chiro too! I said I will think about it when I see you do it. Well needless to say within 6 months he was making $50k in a month. Granted, he had a lot of overhead and taxes, but he still took home over 50% of that. Actually he reinvested it into the office in the way of an x ray machine, 2nd clinic etc. This doc had at least 20 patients there in his waiting room. At one point it was so full there were no more chairs left and the new people coming in the door had to stand and wait. I was only there for an hour and I must have seen at least 40 people come in/out those doors. The atmosphere was very positive and up beat. People were chatting to pass the time and it all worked like clock work. That is a sign of proper management...
I don't think you are making it up, I think you misunderstood. His business may average 300 patients a day, but how many associates did he have? How many locations?
chirojeremy
05-10-08, 02:21 PM
There was no misunderstanding. I talked to a friend of mine who is a doc in OKC and asked him who the highest volume docs were in the area. He gave me 3 names. I called each of them and 2 of them called me back. I set up an appointment to observe in 1 of their clinics. He told me over the phone he was on track to see 300 pts that day. I told him that was amazing because my dad saw that in a week. He said, well there are a lot of docs out there that see just as many in a day or week, but how many hours you work to do that is also important. He told me his hours and how he only works 6 hours in a day with a 3 hour break for lunch. When I went into his clinic to watch I just stood in the corner to observe. I looked at the clock when a patient came in and how long they were waiting before they were treated and left and total it took about 20 minutes, but that included him filling out papers, getting x rayed and talking with the doc. Everyone else came in, waited for a treatment room to open, they recieved traction therapy for 3-5 minutes and then they waited in line basically until their turn. They were in and out of there within 5-10 minutes. I also timed how long the actual adjustment took, from the time the doctor told them to come in to when the doctor opened up the door for the next pt. That only took about 1 minute. It was very fast and efficiet without making the pt feel rushed. The doctor gave them a hug and a smile and they were off! I was very impressed. No wonder this guy had built such a large following. There were patient talking about how they had been referred by their MD for their tailbone etc and within 2 visits their pain was gone. Everyone was a buzz about this guy and his practice.
mateo44
05-10-08, 02:28 PM
I like Oregon, New Mexico, and Idaho, in no particular order. :)
I think Boise looks best from my rear view mirror. But that's just me.
Nachoman
05-10-08, 03:36 PM
There was no misunderstanding. I talked to a friend of mine who is a doc in OKC and asked him who the highest volume docs were in the area. He gave me 3 names. I called each of them and 2 of them called me back. I set up an appointment to observe in 1 of their clinics. He told me over the phone he was on track to see 300 pts that day. I told him that was amazing because my dad saw that in a week. He said, well there are a lot of docs out there that see just as many in a day or week, but how many hours you work to do that is also important. He told me his hours and how he only works 6 hours in a day with a 3 hour break for lunch. When I went into his clinic to watch I just stood in the corner to observe. I looked at the clock when a patient came in and how long they were waiting before they were treated and left and total it took about 20 minutes, but that included him filling out papers, getting x rayed and talking with the doc. Everyone else came in, waited for a treatment room to open, they recieved traction therapy for 3-5 minutes and then they waited in line basically until their turn. They were in and out of there within 5-10 minutes. I also timed how long the actual adjustment took, from the time the doctor told them to come in to when the doctor opened up the door for the next pt. That only took about 1 minute. It was very fast and efficiet without making the pt feel rushed. The doctor gave them a hug and a smile and they were off! I was very impressed. No wonder this guy had built such a large following. There were patient talking about how they had been referred by their MD for their tailbone etc and within 2 visits their pain was gone. Everyone was a buzz about this guy and his practice.
The doctor spent 60 seconds with 300 patients a day, and the patients did not feel rushed?
And that's after working 6 hours with a 3 hour lunch break? huh?
Seriously, there seems to be some sort of misunderstanding.
The doctor spent 60 seconds with 300 patients a day, and the patients did not feel rushed?
And that's after working 6 hours with a 3 hour lunch break? huh?
Seriously, there seems to be some sort of misunderstanding.
Well, when all you've got is a hammer, an awful lot of things look like nails. ;)
I'm just sayin...
wolfpack
05-10-08, 04:22 PM
$4200
1700 sq. feet
=$2.47/sq. foot
so you win, at least vs. us, barely. But does your rent include any utilities? (water, garbage, gas, electricity, etc.)?
good lord! and that is your mortgage? i'll never be able to live out there. hell, i haven't even been there yet, but still....i might have to just stay over here on the EC and move to the mountain area - that is if i can find engineering work:rolleyes:
ronjon10
05-10-08, 04:47 PM
good lord! and that is your mortgage? i'll never be able to live out there. hell, i haven't even been there yet, but still....i might have to just stay over here on the EC and move to the mountain area - that is if i can find engineering work:rolleyes:
There's all sorts of engineering work out here. Generally speaking, it's expensive to live here, but pay scales are higher for equivalent work. What do you engineer?
This guy was also an accupuncturist btw. The actual adjustments take mere seconds. You ask them how they are feeling, you have them lie down and talk to you at the same time while you palpate them for restriction, taught muscles or tender spot then you make the adjustment. Once the spine is cleared and they feel good they are done. There is rushing at all, its all about efficiency. Just like multitasking. Why would you have them sit in a chair in another room where you have to spend time walking to them, talk to them, then have them lay down, then palpate, then adjust? Why not do it all at once so you are saving as much time as possible?
Doesn't sound good to me.
My chiro takes 20-30 minutes with me.
checks everything out, does a lot of stretching, bending, rubing, etc. I don't like the adjustment.
Not on my neck, and not on my back. I visit for sore muscles that are too tight, and causing major pain.
Went to a Physical therapist, they spend 2 minutes with me, gave me muscle relaxers, and sent me home. $200 billed to the insurance, and did not help even a little bit. Waht a scam. needless to say I called the insurance co, told them they didn't do S**t, and cancelled all the appts.
The Chiro, two visits and all is good with the world.
Kinesiology , thats what he practices, and calls himself a chiropractor. $45 cash. This is a deal if you ask me.
wolfpack
05-10-08, 05:03 PM
i'm a hydraulics engineer...water. i design roadway drainage systems, bridges, culverts, etc (hydraulic & surface drainage) for all highway construction in the state. i don't know what i'm gonna be doing...things are a changing in my life right now - planning on visiting the SoCal area in july...
good lord! and that is your mortgage? i'll never be able to live out there. hell, i haven't even been there yet, but still....i might have to just stay over here on the EC and move to the mountain area - that is if i can find engineering work:rolleyes:
Well its not just the mortgage, but its the equivalent to "rent" as it is mortgage + property taxes + homeowners/fire/earthquake insurance. The mortgage by itself it most of it though...
good lord! and that is your mortgage? i'll never be able to live out there. hell, i haven't even been there yet, but still....i might have to just stay over here on the EC and move to the mountain area - that is if i can find engineering work:rolleyes:
Well, we do live in Santa Barbara, which is super expensive. 25 miles north or south along the freeway, and it's significantly cheaper. Lots of people commute into Santa Barbara b/c it's soo expensive to live here.
I was looking at a real estate flyer the other day, and there was a condo for over $500k (cheapest item). What a steal.
And people in town are usually suprised that we own a house and are under 30. We're the youngest by far in our neighborhood. (That's what getting a scholarship to college and working as a computer programmer while in school, investing the money in a condo, then moving up can do.)
And the price is worth it. We just got back from a nice ride along the coast then some climbing in the foothills.
thomson
05-10-08, 06:48 PM
When did you guys move from Goleta?
When did you guys move from Goleta?
We don't live in Goleta. We don't live in Santa Barbara either. We are right in between them, although physically closer to the boundary of Goleta, the area has always been more associated with Santa Barbara. I'm sure everyone on the forum is just fascinated about the socio-political forces that defeated the incorporation of the city of Goleta for nearly 30 years because a large chunk of people didn't want to lose their "Santa Barbara" mailing address. :p
roadfix
05-10-08, 10:56 PM
Since we're also on the subject of homes.....
I received a notice of non-renewal from my home owners' insurer today. This has happened three times since I bought this property 18 years ago. State Farm dropped us after 5 years, then it was 20th Century after 5 more years, and now Newport Insurance.......all for the same reason: High fire zone.
I don't understand why they even bother writing the property in the first place if they consider the property to be high risk unless there are other reasons not stated.
I may have to go to the California FAIR Plan for fire insurance if no one else wants to insure me.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated as I have only 40 days to look for a new policy.
chirojeremy
05-10-08, 10:59 PM
Doesn't sound good to me.
My chiro takes 20-30 minutes with me.
checks everything out, does a lot of stretching, bending, rubing, etc. I don't like the adjustment.
Not on my neck, and not on my back. I visit for sore muscles that are too tight, and causing major pain.
Went to a Physical therapist, they spend 2 minutes with me, gave me muscle relaxers, and sent me home. $200 billed to the insurance, and did not help even a little bit. Waht a scam. needless to say I called the insurance co, told them they didn't do S**t, and cancelled all the appts.
The Chiro, two visits and all is good with the world.
Kinesiology , thats what he practices, and calls himself a chiropractor. $45 cash. This is a deal if you ask me.
Your doc practices AK (applied kinesiology) that is a very time consuming technique. I am not sure what technique this doc uses, but I know it is associated with the type of practice management company he is with. They do all of their adjustments with the pt lying face down and they just do a light posterior to anterior thrust. Some dont know how they get away with it, but they say in schools, all techniques work, you just have to chose the one you like the best or practice several techniques. Some people like to feel like their doctor spends 20-30 minutes with them, but a lot of that work your doc is doing could be done by a qualified assistant. He is a doctor, not a massage therapist or physical therapist for that matter, so why should he be doing those jobs. One thing I may do is have people get massaged before they see me so their muscles are loose, they take the adjustments well and they hold longer. Thats just an idea I am playing with though...
chirojeremy
05-10-08, 11:03 PM
The doctor spent 60 seconds with 300 patients a day, and the patients did not feel rushed?
And that's after working 6 hours with a 3 hour lunch break? huh?
Seriously, there seems to be some sort of misunderstanding.
When you visit an MD what usually happens? The nurse or assistant takes your vitals, etc. The doc reads your chart really quickly to see what the problem is, they come in and ask you what is wrong to clarify anything and then they write you up a script. 2 minutes later you are out of there. If anything else needs to be done, they have their assistant work with you. How is this any different?
When you visit an MD what usually happens? The nurse or assistant takes your vitals, etc. The doc reads your chart really quickly to see what the problem is, they come in and ask you what is wrong to clarify anything and then they write you up a script. 2 minutes later you are out of there. If anything else needs to be done, they have their assistant work with you. How is this any different?
a) It is not a good thing if that is how your doctor operates, and is part of what is wrong with the medical industry in the US. It is mostly a result of HMOs limiting what they will be paid for a patient, so they have to survive on volume.
b) My doctor spends more time with me than that. I don't have a HMO.
c) I don't think that is something to strive for.
dolophonic
05-10-08, 11:15 PM
try living in London. England..if you think socal is expensive maby you shouuld think again....
:roflmao:
shut up
no Kidding !!
LCI_Brian
05-10-08, 11:58 PM
good lord! and that is your mortgage? i'll never be able to live out there. hell, i haven't even been there yet, but still....i might have to just stay over here on the EC and move to the mountain area - that is if i can find engineering work:rolleyes:
FWIW, I'm a chemical engineer for a large engineering and construction company in the energy industry. Even though business is good and salaries for college grads have gone up to reflect that, many of them have a hard time finding housing. Lucky for me, I bought my first place in '96 and my second in '03.
rooftest
05-11-08, 12:02 AM
try living in London. England..if you think socal is expensive maby you shouuld think again....
We've got edible food, too!
ronjon10
05-11-08, 12:27 AM
Since we're also on the subject of homes.....
I received a notice of non-renewal from my home owners' insurer today. This has happened three times since I bought this property 18 years ago. State Farm dropped us after 5 years, then it was 20th Century after 5 more years, and now Newport Insurance.......all for the same reason: High fire zone.
I don't understand why they even bother writing the property in the first place if they consider the property to be high risk unless there are other reasons not stated.
I may have to go to the California FAIR Plan for fire insurance if no one else wants to insure me.
Any suggestions greatly appreciated as I have only 40 days to look for a new policy.
You might try going back to State Farm. I have a friend who's a rep and she mentioned they recently reworked some of their fire policies. I'm up for renewal in July and will be checking in with her. I'm on Fair plan now, being in Topanga and all... Sucks, I could hit the fire station up here with a 9 iron from my place (if I had any accuracy left in my game anyway)...
soggydog
05-11-08, 08:50 AM
I have to chime in here:
1. First I have an HMO and my doctor spends at least 15 to 20 minutes with me when ever I go to see him
2. My son is a chiropractor and I know he has about 225 to 250 patient vists per week
3. He has 25 office hours per week but usually stays a little late for people who just can't get there before closing time. I know he thinks about Chiropractic and his patients 24/7
4. He does do public speaking on his off hours mostly to promote his practice.
5. If any of his patients has an emergency he is always willing to meet them at night or on the weekend he even make house calls if needed.
6. If anyone comes in unable to afford his office visit he will not turn anyone away.
7. He also graduated with highest honors 10 years ago.
8. As far as being able to afford living in SoCA my son owns at least 7 houses that I know of.
9. When I brought up the mortgage banking problems people are having he knew nothing about them. (he does only think about his job) so I guess he is doing just fine.
chirojeremy
05-11-08, 09:50 AM
I have to chime in here:
1. First I have an HMO and my doctor spends at least 15 to 20 minutes with me when ever I go to see him
2. My son is a chiropractor and I know he has about 225 to 250 patient vists per week
3. He has 25 office hours per week but usually stays a little late for people who just can't get there before closing time. I know he thinks about Chiropractic and his patients 24/7
4. He does do public speaking on his off hours mostly to promote his practice.
5. If any of his patients has an emergency he is always willing to meet them at night or on the weekend he even make house calls if needed.
6. If anyone comes in unable to afford his office visit he will not turn anyone away.
7. He also graduated with highest honors 10 years ago.
8. As far as being able to afford living in SoCA my son owns at least 7 houses that I know of.
9. When I brought up the mortgage banking problems people are having he knew nothing about them. (he does only think about his job) so I guess he is doing just fine.
Your son sounds like an helluva doc and I would love to meet him some day. Some people thing that 250 pts per week is too high volume. I could not even imagine 300 per day until I met this doc.
roadfix
05-11-08, 11:11 AM
You might try going back to State Farm. I have a friend who's a rep and she mentioned they recently reworked some of their fire policies. I'm up for renewal in July and will be checking in with her. I'm on Fair plan now, being in Topanga and all... Sucks, I could hit the fire station up here with a 9 iron from my place (if I had any accuracy left in my game anyway)...
Thanks Ron, in fact I will call State Farm tomorrow. Considering my family has been carrying auto insurance with them for over 30 years, hopefully they can help me out.
I know, we have a fire station less than a mile away from us. Although my neighobrs and I keep our brush cleared year round, we are located right in the wooded area of Elysian Park so we have no control.
genedoc
05-11-08, 05:20 PM
Thanks Ron, in fact I will call State Farm tomorrow. Considering my family has been carrying auto insurance with them for over 30 years, hopefully they can help me out.
I know, we have a fire station less than a mile away from us. Although my neighbors and I keep our brush cleared year round, we are located right in the wooded area of Elysian Park so we have no control.
I live up on the side of the foothills in Claremont and border the wilderness area. Those of us on the perimeters have a hard time getting insurance. 16 neighbors lost their homes in the 2003 fires, but Farmers still covers us. It helps that we get all our insurance, and an umbrella liability policy, through them. The Agent tries very hard to keep the company from dropping us.
Oh yeah, I couldn't afford to buy this home today. I got it in '98 for twice what I sold my home for outside Boulder, CO. and thought it was a very expensive home then. At the pricing peak, it had tripled. It's still worth about ~$1M more than I owe. Can anyone say "reverse mortgage"?
Oleanshoebox
05-11-08, 09:07 PM
I don't.
rooftest
05-11-08, 11:45 PM
Can anyone say "reverse mortgage"?
In all seriousness, don't ever let anyone you love get one of those - they are a complete rip-off.
In all seriousness, don't ever let anyone you love get one of those - they are a complete rip-off.
How else do you suggest somebody retired and running out of money still live in their home when that is where much of their equity is? The person's main concern is their quality of life, not how much $$ they will leave behind. A reverse mortgage is actually a very good deal for them.
roadfix
05-12-08, 01:22 AM
An equity line of credit can work as well for some.
An equity line of credit can work as well for some.
Um, not usually for retired folks.
Here is an explanation: http://www.aarp.org/money/revmort/revmort_basics/a2003-03-21-newloan.html
Hi,
I haven't read every post in this thread but since the topic of engineering came up... ;) :D
First of all, if people can't afford to live in SoCal, why are there so many people living here? :eek:
I moved here straight out of college in 1979. Back then house prices were high (for their time) and I thought that I'd never be able to afford a house. I didn't buy for many years when I should have but almost 30 years later I am in a position that I never thought I could achieve. It does help to be married to an attorney. ;)
So for those who are engineers, there a many engineering jobs in many engineering sectors in SoCal. The average working engineer is able to buy a house (eventually) in reasonable areas of SoCal. You won't get rich being an engineer, but you will be able to live nicely and support your riding habit. I have many friends who work at Boeing and they are homeowners and cyclists. The prices you see in the news are scary but they are not representative of reality. Is it cheap to live here? No. If you are some kind of professional you should be able to buy a house if you save wisely.
Hope this helps.
It seems that almost every new buyer of homes in my neighbornood are attorneys. Plus, the one family that had to sell did so because one of the couple decided to stop being an attorney and go back to teaching.
Apropos of nothing, I guess...
roadfix
05-12-08, 10:44 AM
I have several blue collar friends who own homes and several more I know who just recently became first time home owners.
A lot has to do with how you manage your money (investing, borrowing from friends and family, playing cundina, etc...)
Aerodee80
05-12-08, 01:03 PM
It is expensive in Socal for the most part depending on the city.
I dont have a college education just job experience and talent and I have 2 roomates. With car payments , credit card, rent, etc, etc it is hard but its managable. Probably by 2015 I can buy a house.
rooftest
05-12-08, 03:27 PM
How else do you suggest somebody retired and running out of money still live in their home when that is where much of their equity is? The person's main concern is their quality of life, not how much $$ they will leave behind. A reverse mortgage is actually a very good deal for them.
That's a total lie - in such a case, they are always better taking out a second (or a first) on the property.
Nachoman
05-12-08, 06:38 PM
I thought I paid too much for my house in Point Loma (coastal san diego) in about 1992. In retrospect, of course, I should have bought another house and paid three times as much. I'd be sitting on a gold mine.
fthomas
05-12-08, 07:30 PM
I am not into hunting and fishing. Although, if I fish, I like trout/steelhead and salmon. They dont have that in OK. There you have catfish and bass, bleh!
Talk about fly fishing! It's a long drive to good trout fishing from S. California. I really like Wyoming, Colorado, New Mexico, Oregon, Washington and my dream fishing place = Alaska. Not great biking weather in Anchorage or Fairbanks in January no doubt.
I see so many people here with the looks of wealth and the reality of "Debt". They are borrowing the house, cars, etc. from the bank unless they fall behind.
PM me and I'll tell you about a Chiropractor doing $ 1,000,000 in monthly sales of supplements, which he stocked nothing!
That's a total lie - in such a case, they are always better taking out a second (or a first) on the property.
The big difference, on the surface at least, is that a new mortgage requires income to pay it off every month. A lot of people's income drops drastically when they retire. It takes a large chunk of money in ninvestments to generate the income you make while working. I'm not suggesting a reverse mortgage is the answer, btw, just that the reality of retiring for some may mean moving out of a house you can't afford to pay the mortgage on, once the income stream drops.
That's a total lie - in such a case, they are always better taking out a second (or a first) on the property.
What relative died leaving you without leaving you their home free and clear like you planned?
That's a total lie - in such a case, they are always better taking out a second (or a first) on the property.
When did you get your CFP license?
Edit: I've been informed that this is a certificate, not a license. Oops. Apparently that invalidated my point that rooftest shouldn't spout out stuff he isn't qualified to speak about.
DaveSANYYZ
05-12-08, 09:23 PM
I've moved here (San Diego, UTC area) 3.5 yrs ago from Toronto, Canada. Rent has steadily gone up from $1200 to $1400 a month here; quite expensive. I've been looking at house prices too. $600k+ for a fully detached house, or $300k for an old 2 bdrm condo. Yikes! :p
rooftest
05-12-08, 11:51 PM
When did you get your CFP license?
I can tell you don't have one because-
1. It isn't a license
2. You're more fond of these reverse mortgages than most.
3. You don't seem to be smart enough to get all your thoughts in one post. (or to make that first one coherent.)
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