Foo - Smoking Bans

(I hope it's okay to put this in this folder.)

My city is voting on an indoor smoking ban today. (For the second time. Two years ago it was voted down.) There have been heated debates over the issue, as you might imagine. Those for it tout health benefits of a ban; those against say it's just the government trying to take away people's rights--including the rights of business owners to decide whether they allow smoking.

I voted for it. I think it's gross to go to restaurants and have smoke drifting everywhere. (Since smoke doesn't know it's supposed to stay in the smoking section. :rolleyes:) It is so awesome to go to cities that have already banned smoking! Maybe those places have gone through aches and pains trying to ban it, too, but it seems like it's been particularly heated here.

Is your city smoke-free? Are you glad? Do you think it's a violation of rights? Any comments?

Personally, I see it as a monopoly by majority.

If a business decides to allow smoking, why should their right to choose be taken away? If you don't like it, don't frequent that particular establishment. If the vast majority of their customers don't like it, they'll lose business and the problem solves itself.

I have always preferred to vote with my feet rather than try to solve social issues with litigation.

My city is smoke free... but, you know it is kind of annoying having crowds of people gathered outside of bars all huddled together doing their thing... But I live in a college area - so there are lots of bars, hence lots of crowds. I guess it's really not that big a deal. Still, I feel that Jazz clubs and spoken word/poetry Jam venues should be exempt... these places are supposed to be smoky cavernous holes in the wall, you know? That's just part of the atmosphere. why they have to ruin 'everything' - you know?

In Plano, they made a smoking ban, complete with smoke free-zones stretching 25 feet past the
front door of any building. Im not a smoker but I am a businessman. I feel sorry for the restaurants
who have lost 30% of their revenue (I did ask a restauranteur about the effects). Turns out, the
smokers are just going to Richardson (the next town, just a couple miles to the border)

I can handle smoking sections that have their own air systems. Theres a Ralph & Kacoos Ive been
to that allows smoking at the bar and the door to the bar has weatherstripping sealing it from
the rest of the building.

I don't smoke and hate smoky restaurants/bars.

I'd rather just see the governments give tax breaks to those businesses who ban smoking rather than making it mandatory for all businesses. People should have a choice.

Hobartlemagne is right, all the smoking bans do is make smokers go elsewhere. It does not stop them from smoking. I was excited because we got a new oyster bar. It is right on the city limits between Plano and Richardson. Took the wife and kids there once. Will not go back, as we were the only family and the only non smokers in the place. It smelled like crap in there.

If any of you weirdos go to Vegas, you'll die.

That lingering smoke never dies.

It does in the sections adults can go to Maxi.

Austin has had a smoking ban for a while now. While I personally don't care for smoke, I don't like the fact that city tells businesses what they can and can't do unless there is an obvious need for it.

Simple solution statewide ban..

I think we should start setting people on fire, see how they like being slowly burned to death for the pleasure of others!

x136,
Tobacco Plant Liberation Front.

Austin has had a smoking ban for a while now. While I personally don't care for smoke, I don't like the fact that city tells businesses what they can and can't do unless there is an obvious need for it.

I have mixed feelings about smoking bans, and tend to believe that people should be free to do whatever stupid things they want to themselves, but the question that this raises is how does one determine what constitutes "an obvious need for it" in regards to the saftey and comfort of other people?

Should the city or state require that businesses meet OSHA and building code requirements? Don't like working with exposed electrical wires? Get a job somewhere else. Should they require that there be soap in the restrooms? People can vote with their feet if they want to eat in a sanitary restaurant, right?

There's plenty of peer reviewed scientific literature that demonstrates the danger of prolonged exposure to second hand smoke (of course, there's also plenty that says there isn't much danger). It's not like people are proposing these bans to spite smokers or because they like minding other people's business. The issue is a real public health and worker safety question.

My asthma likes smoking bans. I am selfish for my hedonistic enjoyment of breathing. :p

My asthma likes smoking bans. I am selfish for my hedonistic enjoyment of breathing. :p

You probably also like curb cuts and safety rails. Fascist.

Simple solution statewide ban..

New Jersey

no relief either, NYC & Philly have the bans, too. Nowhere for 'em to go!!! bwaaaahhaaahhaaaaa:bike2:

My thinking is:

1) This isn't actually the government attempting to ban anything or force anyone to do anything. This is our municipal government responding to a group of non-smoking voters who asked for the ban. Everyone gets a say as to whether it's enacted or not.

2) Banning smoking inside makes each and every business available to everyone. Allowing smoking inside makes businesses available only to smokers and those who can stand to be around smoke. The former is more fair, if you ask me.

Actually, I wouldn't care at all if bars were exempt or small businesses or whatever, but that's not how this ordinance happens to be written. I'm mostly interested in having all restaurants smoke-free. I can't think of a single restaurant we have at the moment that has a completely separate smoking area...in fact, most are divided by a low wall, which essentially makes the entire restaurant a smoking section. Just yesterday I had to attend a lunch meeting for work. I actually had to walk through the smoking room to get to the non-smoking room.

My asthma likes smoking bans. I am selfish for my hedonistic enjoyment of breathing. :p

Ditto :thumb:

I was the reason my dad quit smoking. But hey, HE was probably the reason I developed asthma in the first place.

I support smoking bans because I have a right not to get rushed to the emergency room every time I go out to eat or something.

I live in a smoke free province...good to go. Smokers don't mind either, its nice to go outside and get some "fresh" air...

The law actually just got stricter as well, can't smoke withing 3 metres of the door or opening to a building....ahhhhh

Well, if we're going to go after those that pollute the environment we wish to reside in...

Statewide ban on cars. :D

I hate the exhaust smell when I'm riding on roads originally designed for bicycles and horses.

As a person who smokes when I drink, I hate smoky bars and restaurants. Putting a smoking section in a restaurant is like putting a peeing section in a pool.

I love smoking. Love it. Wish I still smoked. Honest.

Thank Christ that it's getting tougher to do. Unfortunately I keep finding myself living in cities where you can still do it.

It was defeated, so we'll continue to have smoke all over the place. And I will continue to stay home.

I love smoking. Love it. Wish I still smoked. Honest.

Thank Christ that it's getting tougher to do. Unfortunately I keep finding myself living in cities where you can still do it.

+1

I used to smoke. I really enjoyed it. Then we found out my wife was pregnant and I quit.

But, I still want one every time I smell one.

My dad quit smoking this year on January 2nd. He is 63 and had been smoking since he was 13. Illinois recently banned smoking in public businesses, restaurants, bars, etc. I believed this has helped him.

Putting a smoking section in a restaurant is like putting a peeing section in a pool.

Awesome!

That should be Jsharr's new sig

Interesting, well-balanced discussion. I'm a moderate smoker who doesn't want to quit. Yet when I bike or trike--recumbent 3 wheeler--the last thing I want is a cigarette.

FYI, I don't drink (no particular reason) and live a healthy lifestyle otherwise. That may be why I haven't had any smoking related health issues. I also hate smoky areas and would rather smoke at home where I can keep it well ventilated.

Here's personal kicker. I grew up with a parent who had early onset Parkinson's. A few years ago, I came across a body of scientific research that consistently found about a 50% difference in people who smoked and didn't get Parkinson's vs. those who did. Check it out if you don't believe me.

Frankly, I think Parkinson's is worse than lung cancer (which only affects about 10% of smokers anyway) because it destroys EVERYTHING except the mind.

Anyhow, if triking makes me quit, OK. If not, I may be protecting myself against a worse fate.

We've had a country-wide ban on smoking indoors (except for in your own home) for a couple of years now.

And it is great.:D It is so nice to go anywhere and not have the reek of cigarettes in your clothes and hair when you leave. Most of the bars complained that they would lose lots of business, but that hasn't happened. Of course, at most places the smokers stand near the door so that they can go back in, particularly when it is cold.:rolleyes:

BTW, I don't have any problem with people smoking, but I don't want to have any of their smoke. I don't smoke for the simple hedonistic reason that I loathe the smell, not that it's unhealthy.

I've had restaurant meals ruined by second hand smoke from Midland, Texas to Sitges, Spain. I'm all for the ban. When I used to smoke, I did it outside.

Smoking bans are the majority's tryany (sp?) over the minority. I quit smoking 15 years ago, hate smoke but I really like personal freedoms. Make tobacco illegal, or leave people who smoke alone. There are a few bars in this town that allow smoking, they are much busier than before the other bars banned smoking.

http://www.ashaust.org.au/SF'03/graphics/TasBarCartoon0310.jpg

...and my second favorite search

"smoking ban" OR "ban smoking" OR "no smoking" OR "no smokers" OR "smoke free" (http://news.google.com/news?num=100&hl=en&um=1&tab=wn&q=%22smoking+ban%22+OR+%22ban+smoking%22+OR+%22no+smoking%22+OR+%22no+smokers%22+OR+%22smoke+free%22 )

I started smoking at age 13, I quit smoking last year on my 50th bday. I got tired of the smell... my body, my clothes, my pillow. I got tired of smoking cheaper & cheaper cigarettes just to stay ahead of the escalating cost of them.

My feeling on smoking bans is that it's fascist government action. Let the buisneses decide, and let the patrons and employees decide as well. Just as we have signs on restaurant doors that say "This is a non-smoking establishment", there should be signs on them that welcome smokers and warn away the uptight and allergic.

My feeling on smoking bans is that it's fascist government action. Let the buisneses decide, and let the patrons and employees decide as well. Just as we have signs on restaurant doors that say "This is a non-smoking establishment", there should be signs on them that welcome smokers and warn away the uptight and allergic.

Nah, It's more nanny state socialism than fascist. You can't have people deciding what to do with their own lives, there is no telling what they'll get up to.:p

I think that we used to have some that had the "this is a non-smoking establishment" ones before the blanket ban. I don't really have a life, so my memories of the few times I've been to pubs and out on the turps is, um, hazy.:D

My thinking is:

2) Banning smoking inside makes each and every business available to everyone. Allowing smoking inside makes businesses available only to smokers and those who can stand to be around smoke. The former is more fair, if you ask me.

*THIS* is the point that defeats every argument put up by smokers on smoking bans.

It's not just the smell, but it's the "second-hand" smoking by non-smokers and its negative effects like asthma that has caused much of the move towards bans in Australia.

It is now at a point where in one State here it is illegal to smoke in a car with children in it. Another State is about to move on similar legislation.

I'm an ex-smoker. Smoking almost killed me. I'm all for it being banned and smokers being made social pariahs. Pity smokers have to hang around office and bar doorways like hookers, and dump their butts in the gutter, however.

Hi Stacey, nice seeing you again.:)

And you as well. :)

I started smoking at age 13, I quit smoking last year on my 50th bday. I got tired of the smell... my body, my clothes, my pillow. I got tired of smoking cheaper & cheaper cigarettes just to stay ahead of the escalating cost of them.

My feeling on smoking bans is that it's fascist government action. Let the buisneses decide, and let the patrons and employees decide as well. Just as we have signs on restaurant doors that say "This is a non-smoking establishment", there should be signs on them that welcome smokers and warn away the uptight and allergic.

+1
I quit too...in May. We're becoming regular freakin citizens, you and me. :eek:

I live in a city ruled by a majority of mega wealthy retired people trying to make it over a 100 years of age, since they are having so much fun.

Imagine ... they are soon to have compulsory organ donation.

MN went smoke-free something like a year ago. Its been fantastic!

+1
I quit too...in May. We're becoming regular freakin citizens, you and me. :eek:

Dude, you rock! Never stopin' the blunts tho' :D

As someone who bounces at a bar occasionally, I'm very glad that there's a smoking ban here, I probably wouldn't do it otherwise. Decent money for the time there, but with all that smoke in a confined place is disgusting.

But as someone who loves to smoke while drinking, its a real pain in the arse, only in the winter though. I really don't mind going outside to smoke, gives me a break from the noise in the bar and a chance to chat up the ladies without idiots all around me.

I think Motley Crue is a smokin' band....

Oh, smoking ban's. I don't smoke and other people smoking has never bothered me, in fact I like the smell of smoke.

I think Motley Crue is a smokin' band....



once upon a time....


maybe.

And you as well. :)

Nice seein ya, Stacey. Been too long.

The smoking ban is not about impinging on freedoms. It is about preventing a large risk that leads to a very serious disease, to those that chose not to participate. It is an OSHA issue more than anything.

And when I see businesses doing something to protect their workers (not forced to via regulation) I'll let you know!

Today is a good day. Stacey is back. :)

The smoking ban is not about impinging on freedoms. It is about preventing a large risk that leads to a very serious disease, to those that chose not to participate. It is an OSHA issue more than anything.

And when I see businesses doing something to protect their workers (not forced to via regulation) I'll let you know!

If you took a large parking lot. Built a bar/restruant and put signs every where that said smoking was allowed there. People that were hired to work there would know smoking was going on there before they were hired. People who went there to eat would know. Deliveries could be made in a nonsmoking area or have a slide or something. How can you possibly say not allowing these people to smoke or work there is not impinging on their freedom? Of course it is.

Today is a good day. Stacey is back. :)

+ everything


I don't mind smoking bans since I quit smoking about a year ago. I still get the craving once in a while, but the smell of smoke puts me off the desire to actually follow through on it. Well, that and the totally ******** price of cigarettes around here.

I have to say it is nice to not have to deal with hardcore drug addicts while eating. They should get their fix in private like the other junkies do.

^^^^ I agree with Superman's alter ego.

The whole 'Let the businesses decide' argument is not reasonable, to my mind. ALL bars in Columbus Ohio allowed smoking everywhere until it was banned. I like to go out drinking with my friends, and COULD NOT choose a non-smoking bar, because there were none. The bar owners knew this, and knew that people would be forced to go to their bars even if they did not like smoke. So where's the choice? When the ban went into effect, there were a few bars that held out against it for a while. I went to one of these with a couple of friends....left after a few minutes and never went back. That was possible only because I had the choice.

The only difference between smoking and hardcore drug addiction, is that I can be around junkies without having to take in any of their drugs. I don't have this option when in the same room with people who smoke.

I don't choose my friends based on whether or not they smoke, all I ask is that they do not smoke around me.

I could argue the smoking ban in AZ either way, but in the end I'm for it.

It was impossible to go out for karaoke without coming home with burning eyes from the smoke before the ban. There were literally no places to go that didn't have smoking. Now all my friends who love karaoke but couldn't go from the smoke can go. Smokers haven't stopped going, either.

Business went down in AZ for a while, but the good business owners had something unique to offer. These businesses are now flourishing because they can now welcome in non-smokers who are no longer ostracized due to physical concerns.

In Tennessee they just had the law passed, but you can get around it if you don't allow folks under 21 without a parent or guardian, which I think is reasonable. A lot of these smoking bans are unreasonably penalizing bars and clubs where people go to drink, smoke, get laid and listen to music, not drink wheatgrass tea and eat healthfood.

I don't smoke anymore, but even when I used to I didn't think there should be a smoking section in restaurants and I thought they should be taxed to offset the inordinate health care costs smokers end up giving themselves. I was only willing to hurt myself, no one else. If that isn't your idea of "freedom," you need to get a different idea of "freedom."