Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg) - This ride was not boring

I was riding west on Route 27 towards Kingston, and suddenly heard the rear tire blow out. As it happens, I'm right across the street from a service station that was so kind to fill up a slow leak for me in the past.

After changing the tube, I got the wheel back on the bike and saw a rip in the sidewall; the tube was bulging out just enough that I knew it wouldn't last all that long. I called my wife and asked her to pick me up and started riding home.

About 4 miles later, a car made a left out of oncoming traffic in front of me. Traffic was pretty packed and moving slowly, and I didn't have nearly enough time to stop.

I ended up half-sprawled on the hood of the car, my feet just barely off the ground. I was able to stand and pull my bike out the van's wheel well; I wave them of to the parking lot.

What followed was pretty standard for these things; after everybody calmed down, the couple was obviously concerned about me. Aside from a few contusions on my face, I felt fine for the most part. Adrenaline and all, I assume.

Martha drove up a few minutes later, expecting to see a bike with a tire about to blow out. My front fork was twisted beyond repair as well as the front rim.

At the Robert Wood Johnson ER, they gave me meds for my achy shoulder and upper arm, telling me I didn't look like I had a concussion. The nurse on duty was funny!

My LBS agreed with my assumption that the frame is toast.

What worries me about this - aside from the obvious of my bodily integrity and the mangled bike - is the Pittsburgh to DC tour in three weeks. Will I be in shape to ride? Will I have a bike at that point? Um.

Neil has offered his Navigator for the trip, which may be an option, but it is a heavy bike. (Of course, so was my mountain bike.)

I was riding west on Route 27 towards Kingston, and suddenly heard the rear tire blow out. As it happens, I'm right across the street from a service station that was so kind to fill up a slow leak for me in the past.

After changing the tube, I got the wheel back on the bike and saw a rip in the sidewall; the tube was bulging out just enough that I knew it wouldn't last all that long. I called my wife and asked her to pick me up and started riding home.

About 4 miles later, a car made a left out of oncoming traffic in front of me. Traffic was pretty packed and moving slowly, and I didn't have nearly enough time to stop.

I ended up half-sprawled on the hood of the car, my feet just barely off the ground. I was able to stand and pull my bike out the van's wheel well; I wave them of to the parking lot.

What followed was pretty standard for these things; after everybody calmed down, the couple was obviously concerned about me. Aside from a few contusions on my face, I felt fine for the most part. Adrenaline and all, I assume.

Martha drove up a few minutes later, expecting to see a bike with a tire about to blow out. My front fork was twisted beyond repair as well as the front rim.

At the Robert Wood Johnson ER, they gave me meds for my achy shoulder and upper arm, telling me I didn't look like I had a concussion. The nurse on duty was funny!

My LBS agreed with my assumption that the frame is toast.

What worries me about this - aside from the obvious of my bodily integrity and the mangled bike - is the Pittsburgh to DC tour in three weeks. Will I be in shape to ride? Will I have a bike at that point? Um.

Neil has offered his Navigator for the trip, which may be an option, but it is a heavy bike. (Of course, so was my mountain bike.)

Neils on Wheels rides, including Neil on Wheels rides, are always interesting. Few, however, are as interesting as Neil F.'s latest little adventure. I do wish he could be as boring as me.

I think you'll be fine, NeilF. If there's no concussion, then the worst you'll be is a bit stiff and sore for a few days. I'm seriously glad you got off as light as you did. Flip side, be sure to get a new bike out of the deal, as their Insurance will cover it, as well as your medical.

Neil - what size bike do you ride?

Judy

I was riding west on Route 27 towards Kingston, and suddenly heard the rear tire blow out. As it happens, I'm right across the street from a service station that was so kind to fill up a slow leak for me in the past.

After changing the tube, I got the wheel back on the bike and saw a rip in the sidewall; the tube was bulging out just enough that I knew it wouldn't last all that long. I called my wife and asked her to pick me up and started riding home.

About 4 miles later, a car made a left out of oncoming traffic in front of me. Traffic was pretty packed and moving slowly, and I didn't have nearly enough time to stop.

I ended up half-sprawled on the hood of the car, my feet just barely off the ground. I was able to stand and pull my bike out the van's wheel well; I wave them of to the parking lot.

What followed was pretty standard for these things; after everybody calmed down, the couple was obviously concerned about me. Aside from a few contusions on my face, I felt fine for the most part. Adrenaline and all, I assume.

Martha drove up a few minutes later, expecting to see a bike with a tire about to blow out. My front fork was twisted beyond repair as well as the front rim.

At the Robert Wood Johnson ER, they gave me meds for my achy shoulder and upper arm, telling me I didn't look like I had a concussion. The nurse on duty was funny!

My LBS agreed with my assumption that the frame is toast.

What worries me about this - aside from the obvious of my bodily integrity and the mangled bike - is the Pittsburgh to DC tour in three weeks. Will I be in shape to ride? Will I have a bike at that point? Um.

Neil has offered his Navigator for the trip, which may be an option, but it is a heavy bike. (Of course, so was my mountain bike.)

We did indeed discuss transferring Excelsior to Neil F., although my offer was for an indefinite period of time, not just the tour. Ex has an 18 inch frame, and the saddle and handlebars/stem can be adjusted to close to Neil's height. The bike is set up for touring. However, it will probably still be a bit large for my buddy, as it was sized for a 6' 1" fellow with a 30/31 inseam, and Neil F. is about 5' 7".

Other options Neil F. has are:

- buying a new bike, of course. A dedicated touring bike is an option, although there's nothing wrong with touring on a MTB, and he could use his Tubus racks from the old bike. Also, commuting on a 1200 dollar Trek 520 seems a bit of overkill - do you want to lock such a beast up at a New Jersey Transit station for 9 hours a day?

The budget touring bike choice, according to John Schubert in Adventure Cyclist this month. is the Trek 7.2 fx. That, or a like bike from another manufacturer, would be my suggestion. Since Neil F. never listens to me, I'll not make it. : D

- buying a secondhand MTB and transferring his racks to that.

- buying a MTB frame, fork, and front wheel and transferring the parts from the old bike to the new build.

Neil - what size bike do you ride?

Judy

Going by measuring my inside leg length, I'd take around a 29" frame.

I think you'll be fine, NeilF. If there's no concussion, then the worst you'll be is a bit stiff and sore for a few days. I'm seriously glad you got off as light as you did. Flip side, be sure to get a new bike out of the deal, as their Insurance will cover it, as well as your medical.

The hospital is planning on billing their insurance company. As to replacing the bike... well, it was 20 years old, so if I get a few hundred I'll be lucky. I'll get reimbursed for what I can, and get the helmet replaced, of course. (That will be my third helmet this year.)

Going by measuring my inside leg length, I'd take around a 29" frame.

That's not a frame size, Neil. According to the site below, you would need a 19 inch frame in a road, road/hybrid, or touring bike. Of course, other factors could steer you to a 20 or an 18.

http://www.totalbike.com/service/frame_size.php

buying a new bike, of course. A dedicated touring bike is an option, although there's nothing wrong with touring on a MTB, and he could use his Tubus racks from the old bike. Also, commuting on a 1200 dollar Trek 520 seems a bit of overkill - do you want to lock such a beast up at a New Jersey Transit station for 9 hours a day?

I'm still planning on getting the folding bike, although which one I get will probably change as a result of this. More in this thread (http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=413431).


The budget touring bike choice, according to John Schubert in Adventure Cyclist this month. is the Trek 7.2 fx. That, or a like bike from another manufacturer, would be my suggestion. Since Neil F. never listens to me, I'll not make it. : D

I'm looking at the Treks. Good value for the money.

Better a third helmet than skull fractures, though. ;)

It's still a great excuse for a new bike.....


The hospital is planning on billing their insurance company. As to replacing the bike... well, it was 20 years old, so if I get a few hundred I'll be lucky. I'll get reimbursed for what I can, and get the helmet replaced, of course. (That will be my third helmet this year.)

The hospital is planning on billing their insurance company. As to replacing the bike... well, it was 20 years old, so if I get a few hundred I'll be lucky. I'll get reimbursed for what I can, and get the helmet replaced, of course. (That will be my third helmet this year.)

Bikes don't have a "Blue Book", and it was your primary means of transportation. You might get more than you think.

NeilF glad to hear you made it with seemingly only minor injuries. It sounds like you're already exploring some good bike options. Both the Fuji Touring and the Surly LHT can be had for around $1K if you want a dedicated tourer, but there are many other good choices out there. Just glad to hear you're in one piece. Enjoy the tour on whatever bike you pick-up.

Glad to hear you're relatively "ok" dude.

V

Lets put the bike and the ride aside. Thank your lucky stars you are alive. Put your life in perspective, not some ride.

Lets put the bike and the ride aside. Thank your lucky stars you are alive. Put your life in perspective, not some ride.

I think the ride means a lot to Neil. Also, he was very low-key about the whole accident when he spoke with me. Far more calm, in fact, than I was when he told me about it. I guess when you have had an epileptic seizure while riding in traffic, little else can faze you. :rolleyes:

Neil F. you're welcome to use Sparky if you want, it is just sitting there looking forelorn nowadays while I ride Verdant full time. I did ride Sparky when it was raining since it had had fenders, I also rode it when I needed to tote something heavy to work. However I've moved both the fenders and the rack to Verdant for my upcoming tour de Pennsylvania. Its a 52 cm if I recall correctly, its too small for me really so it might fit you if you put a regular seatpost on it (I have a whacky extreme set back model)

You and Neil would be a team then, both riding Red Trek 7.x FX's. You however, would totally outclass Neil B. with Sparky being a 7.6 FX -vs- his 7.5.

You'd have to swap the Crankset since the 7.6 is a compact double model. Hmmmm, that might be a problem, but a triple crankset compatible with an FX should be cheap and easy to find and put on.

Just a thought.....

Get yourself straightened out first, then worry about a bike. Take it easy a few days.

Neil F. you're welcome to use Sparky if you want, it is just sitting there looking forelorn nowadays while I ride Verdant full time. I did ride Sparky when it was raining since it had had fenders, I also rode it when I needed to tote something heavy to work. However I've moved both the fenders and the rack to Verdant for my upcoming tour de Pennsylvania. Its a 52 cm if I recall correctly, its too small for me really so it might fit you if you put a regular seatpost on it (I have a whacky extreme set back model)

You and Neil would be a team then, both riding Red Trek 7.x FX's. You however, would totally outclass Neil B. with Sparky being a 7.6 FX -vs- his 7.5.

You'd have to swap the Crankset since the 7.6 is a compact double model. Hmmmm, that might be a problem, but a triple crankset compatible with an FX should be cheap and easy to find and put on.

Just a thought.....

The Pittsburgh-DC tour is going to be on trails with less than 2 per cent grade, so I doubt a double would be any problem at all.

And Neil F. does outclass me in many ways. :-)

glad you are ok!
did you get the police report? who got the ticket? left hooks suck!
i hope you have a good and rapid recovery and get your bike back on the road ASAP!
i have a few frames i could lend for you event if needed. what size/matterial...?

Well, I'd at least put a 12-32 or 11-28 cassette on, right now it has it's original 11-26. Even with the gentle grade, a loaded bike with a granny of 34-26 is not too much fun. I'll let Neil F. chime in, but agonizing over

a)selecting a new bike
b)chosing the "trimings" and
c)actually getting said bike in his hot little hands in time for your trip

might take some doing. Borrowing Sparky with possibly a slight modification (or two) would let him try riding an FX, kind of a trial run? It has some nice 700x32 commuter tires on it (Vittoria of some ilk, I forget the exact flavor)

(of course the flip side is that getting a FX off the shelf might not be a big deal either, what with Uncle Sam's recent rebate and all, and its not like we're talking an exotic bike in a odd size)

Well, I'd at least put a 12-32 or 11-28 cassette on, right now it has it's original 11-26. Even with the gentle grade, a loaded bike with a granny of 34-26 is not too much fun. I'll let Neil F. chime in, but agonizing over

a)selecting a new bike
b)chosing the "trimings" and
c)actually getting said bike in his hot little hands in time for your trip

might take some doing. Borrowing Sparky with possibly a slight modification (or two) would let him try riding an FX, kind of a trial run? It has some nice 700x32 commuter tires on it (Vittoria of some ilk, I forget the exact flavor)

(of course the flip side is that getting a FX off the shelf might not be a big deal either, what with Uncle Sam's recent rebate and all, and its not like we're talking an exotic bike in a odd size)

Neil F. is 5'7", so Sparky will need some tinkering, I think.

I think you'll be fine, NeilF. If there's no concussion, then the worst you'll be is a bit stiff and sore for a few days. I'm seriously glad you got off as light as you did. Flip side, be sure to get a new bike out of the deal, as their Insurance will cover it, as well as your medical.

Let us bow our heads and remember the deceased as he was:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3175/2459688521_77ab3677f8_b.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2081/2459694015_54475f3fdf_b.jpg

Late 1980s BSA mountain bike, we're gonna miss ya.

Wow, good to hear you are allright! That sounds like a nasty spill, one of those that we all have silent fears about and hope never happens. The best news is that you are allright, and from the sounds of it, will be in good shape by tour time.

Regarding the bike, his insurance company is going to throw money at you. This is normal, and do the right thing - accept it. As it's standard, they'll offer you a "pain and suffering" settlement, which might or might not include costs to replace your bicycle. Now, I hate insurance companies, I really do. It wouldn't be a horrible idea to contact a lawyer for some CYA, but it sounds like your case is pretty cut and dry.

And as far as a bike goes, depends on what you'd like and your means. A settlement could be some time off, so if in the interim you pick up something used that wouldn't be a bad idea. Another is to swap the frame with another MTB frame, I know the Nashbar MTB frames have some big supporters - steel, cheap, and supposedly pretty good.

Sounds like a bad week for bikes around here, but keep with it! Glad to hear you are still alive and well.

I think the ride means a lot to Neil. Also, he was very low-key about the whole accident when he spoke with me. Far more calm, in fact, than I was when he told me about it. I guess when you have had an epileptic seizure while riding in traffic, little else can faze you. :rolleyes:

Thanks, but the seizure was at 6am on an empty street. But your point is well taken.

WOW.. Glad no major injury.. Get well soon man

Hope you're feeling better soon.
Don't let the Ins. co. intimidate you!
Sounds like un upgraded bike for your P&S!

Everybody, thanks for the kind words!

Woke up at 5:30 this AM, and I feel pretty good. Unexpectedly, I have no worse pain in the arm and shoulder. And no bruising has shown up. I hope it stays this way, although tomorrow AM could be different.

New bike: I've narrowed it down to the Surly Long Haul Trucker and the Trek 520. Both are bikes with good reputations. I'll bring this to the touring and commuting forums in a bit, but anyone here ride of these? Let's get the Clyde perspective going on touring bikes.

LHT, all the way.......


36 spoke touring rims, definitely.

I rode both yesterday before plopping the cash down on the LHT. The 520 is one nice ride, and it feels really good. The components are nice and it comes with a nice set of Trek racks (or at least the one I rode did). Only downside is the price premium, which was in the neighborhood of $300 over the LHT, oh and the gearing seemed to be roadie-ish. That being said, what a great ride.

Now why I chose the LHT. First, wheels. The wheelset is high end toughness, Alex touring rims with XT hubs and 36 spokes. Second, components. The one I'm buying is an 08 and it has the new XT rear der smong other things. I think the LHT actually has a leg up on the 520 in components, but that's opinon on the mt/road component mix of the lht vs the mostly road components of the 520.

Finally, the LHT just bleeds versatility. The thing has three bottle holders, spare spoke holders, wide stays and forks for big tires (the guys at the LBS tell me you can fit 29x1.95 MTB tires on a LHT) and countless braze-ons. For me, I wanted to buy one bike that could do it all, and do it good - the LHT was my choice.

I suggest riding both and seeing how they feel to you. Surly has stock in all sizes and colors of the LHT currently so any LBS should be able to get one for you. List price is $985 and that's what I paid for mine as it was a special order, but they were awesome enough to throw in a ton of cash in free accessories. Good luck, they're bothe excellent choices.

Everybody, thanks for the kind words!

Woke up at 5:30 this AM, and I feel pretty good. Unexpectedly, I have no worse pain in the arm and shoulder. And no bruising has shown up. I hope it stays this way, although tomorrow AM could be different.

New bike: I've narrowed it down to the Surly Long Haul Trucker and the Trek 520. Both are bikes with good reputations. I'll bring this to the touring and commuting forums in a bit, but anyone here ride of these? Let's get the Clyde perspective going on touring bikes.

Aren't the 1000 threads on the subject of LHT vs 520 in the Touring forum enough?

Let us bow our heads and remember the deceased as he was:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3175/2459688521_77ab3677f8_b.jpg

Late 1980s BSA mountain bike, we're gonna miss ya.

R.I.P. Faithful Steed.

Speedo

Everybody, thanks for the kind words!

Woke up at 5:30 this AM, and I feel pretty good. Unexpectedly, I have no worse pain in the arm and shoulder. And no bruising has shown up. I hope it stays this way, although tomorrow AM could be different.

New bike: I've narrowed it down to the Surly Long Haul Trucker and the Trek 520. Both are bikes with good reputations. I'll bring this to the touring and commuting forums in a bit, but anyone here ride of these? Let's get the Clyde perspective going on touring bikes.

Not to muddy the water, but have you considered REI's touring bikes?

Congrats on getting through the incident relatively unscathed Neil!

Based on my reading in the frum I am sure you will be happy with whatever touring bike you get to replace your former steed.

Best wishes on a speedy recovery for your minor injuries.

Not to muddy the water, but have you considered REI's touring bikes?

There's no REI in my area, otherwise that would be on my list. There are a few Surly dealers in NJ, I'll give them a shot.

The hospital is planning on billing their insurance company. As to replacing the bike... well, it was 20 years old, so if I get a few hundred I'll be lucky. I'll get reimbursed for what I can, and get the helmet replaced, of course. (That will be my third helmet this year.)

Just posted this in another thread ..... http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=416821

Just had a conversation with my wife the “Claims Adjuster”. In most all states the insurance company is required to repair or replace up to the fair market value of the bike. The trick is in determining the fair value for the bike, which does require doing your research. The key is to document what a bike with comparable equipment and in similar condition would cost. Like cars, age alone does not automatically make a bike worth less some bikes that are restored or in excellent condition can go for thousands of dollars. In the end it is a negotiation with the insurance company as to the value of the bike.
It sounds like the insurance company is already picking up the ER bills so that is a good thing. Based on the description of the ER visit in the other thread there were some injuries which even minor involve some pain and suffering which deserves fair and reasonable compensation. As with the bike value, pain and suffering is a negotiation. The bottom line is the driver is responsible for making sure he is (you are) compensated for all damages as if the accident never happened.


edit for this post... As for getting a lawyer I would not bother, contrary to popular belief as depicted in over hyped media accounts and lawyers advertising you still are only entitled to fair and reasonable compensation of your loss. So keep that in mind when you decide about a lawyer, you will end up giving them about a 1/3 of the settlement.

LHT, all the way.......


36 spoke touring rims, definitely.


I agree on the LHT...an absolutely perfect touring bike.

Glad to hear you're not hurt too bad. Hope you find a replacement for your bike that you will like as much as the one that was damaged.

I'm glad to hear that your alright, I got a Mojave in a medium frame that you could borrow for the tour if you don't have a bike by then. I'm 5'8'', it should fit you. PM me if you would like some information on it.

Now comes the fun part... finding a Surly LHT to test-ride. There are no dealers in NJ I can find that stock them. Not too much of a surprise, it is a touring bike. Nothing wrong with getting the Trek 520, but I hate to think I might be missing out on something here because I'm in a rush.

Arrgh! Anyone here in NJ ride an LHT?

Thanks for posting your pics. Sorry to har about the death of your mounth . But on the flip sode you answered a big question i had.. Can you ride long distances ona flat bar. I guess that answer is yes !

Thanks for posting your pics. Sorry to har about the death of your mounth . But on the flip sode you answered a big question i had.. Can you ride long distances ona flat bar. I guess that answer is yes !

Oh, yes, you can indeed. However, I started using barends for the last few thousand miles on the bike, and they help enormously. There are a couple of pics of the bike earlier in the thread, but this one shows the barends I used for the longest.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2035/2258773219_7396e01730.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/neilfein/2258773219/)
a quickr pickr (http://quickrpickr.com) post

Thanks for posting your pics. Sorry to har about the death of your mounth . But on the flip sode you answered a big question i had.. Can you ride long distances ona flat bar. I guess that answer is yes !

I've ridden a century on a flat bar bike, and without bar ends. Don't buy the hype the dropped bar brigade in this forum gives you.

Now comes the fun part... finding a Surly LHT to test-ride. There are no dealers in NJ I can find that stock them. Not too much of a surprise, it is a touring bike. Nothing wrong with getting the Trek 520, but I hate to think I might be missing out on something here because I'm in a rush.


Then why be in a rush? Borrow a bike for the tour and get the bike you WANT afterwards.

Also, while the LHT is no doubt an excellent bike, I'm suspicious of the amount of attention it regularly receives here on Bike Forums, in particular the LHT For- err, the Touring Forum. It seems a shame to buy a bike merely because everyone is talking about it.

Then why be in a rush? Borrow a bike for the tour and get the bike you WANT afterwards.

Also, while the LHT is no doubt an excellent bike, I'm suspicious of the amount of attention it regularly receives here on Bike Forums, in particular the LHT For- err, the Touring Forum. It seems a shame to buy a bike merely because everyone is talking about it.

I can see where you're coming from. However, the touring forum is full of good folks whose advice I trust. (Maybe a few other forums as well, but I digress.) It's also a shame to buy a bike because it's made by the Microsoft of the biking world, aka Trek.

Seems to me people who buy Treks are just following the herd. Moooo! Of course, Trek makes a good product and actually cares abut their customers, and at this point the analogy breaks down. Perhaps they're more the Borg or the Ben and Jerry's of bikes.

I can see where you're coming from. However, the touring forum is full of good folks whose advice I trust.

Supposedly you don't like to argue in public. :)

I don't want to see you rush into a purchase. That's all.

As for the touring forum, there's a lot of good advice, and far too much emphasis placed on certain bikes, the LHT being the most overhyped and the Windsor Tourist being the most disparaged.

I can see where you're coming from. However, the touring forum is full of good folks whose advice I trust. (Maybe a few other forums as well, but I digress.) It's also a shame to buy a bike because it's made by the Microsoft of the biking world, aka Trek.

I am glad to you read you are feeling good, and so sorry for the lost of your trusty ride.

The Surly does appear to be a frame set prepared for touring.

I have been checking bikes for this purpose as well, and found the Specialized Globe series (http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=33684) another option at lower price range. Being Clyde, I must look for functional strength as well.

I was introduced to a wide selection of this model during recent business trip in Madison, WI, and when I returned home, a visit to LBS found none in stock, however conversation with head wrencher, (never hinting I was looking at this model), he thought for the money, the Globe line was a very good offering and he hoped owners (LBS) would bring a view more in on next order, as they were usually first models out the door, bought by commuters.

I am glad to you read you are feeling good, and so sorry for the lost of your trusty ride.

The Surly does appear to be a frame set prepared for touring.

I have been checking bikes for this purpose as well, and found the Specialized Globe series (http://www.specialized.com/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=33684) another option at lower price range. Being Clyde, I must look for functional strength as well.

I was introduced to a wide selection of this model during recent business trip in Madison, WI, and when I returned home, a visit to LBS found none in stock, however conversation with head wrencher, (never hinting I was looking at this model), he thought for the money, the Globe line was a very good offering and he hoped owners (LBS) would bring a view more in on next order, as they were usually first models out the door, bought by commuters.

The Specialized Globe looks like it matches the specs that lead John Schubert in Adventure Cyclist to choose the Trek 7.2 fx as his 'budget tourer' in the latest Buyer's Guide:

- no suspension steel fork;
- brazons for front and rear racks;
- 35cm tires
- wheels with spokes that can be repaired on the road

IIRC, someone on the Touring Forum set up his Globe for short tours. I don't recall who, or when he posted, but it might be worth searching for.

I test rode the LHT and 520 a little while ago when I was shopping for a touring bike. This may have been because of bigger tires but the LHT felt a bit more sluggish and didn't fit me as well as the 520 (although you probably won't have the fit problem). The LHT and 520 are both great bikes with solid reputations. If I were you I would test ride whatever you can get your hands on for as long as you can and see what feels best, then buy it. I'm not sure what frame size you take but you may be on a 26" wheel for the LHT which would probably feel a bit more similar to your mountain bike (plus you wouldn't need new tubes etc... for the new bike). If you're touring regularly or just doing loaded riding on a regular basis you may also want to swap out the crank set on the 520 for something with lower gearing as it comes stock with a road crank set which I believe you can only get a 30 tooth ring on.

Also re: Surly they're sold by Quality Bicycle which is probably the biggest distributor of bike parts in the U.S. they sell to almost all shops so almost all shops could order an LHT for you but not too many shops actually stock them.

Neil F - You shouldn't have problems finding dealers with stock of LHT's these days, as QBP/Surly FINALLY has decent stock of all sizes/colors. If you CAN'T find one to test ride, the interesting thing is that the sizing seems to run pretty similar to the Trek FX, Pilot and 520's. I rode a 57cm Trek FX and it was a hard choice between the 56 and 58 LHT, in the end I chose the 58 because while the standover was (much) less than my FX, the fit was perfect.

Someone mentioned the Globe series, and I second that. The Globe series are another very nice bike, I personally am a huge fan of the internally geared Globe and Globe City. In fact, if I can ever get my wife to stop jogging and try a bicycle (and like it!) I'm planning on getting her either a Globe city 7 or a women's Hardrock (Surprised? :)). The "tricross" cross-bike is also awesome, but aluminum. The ride is much stiffer than the steel LHT or 520, but MAN is it fast. I was very tempted as well, but after adding 36h Deep-V's and other things it would have pushed it waaay out of my budget.

And the LHT's reputation is well earned. After seeing one in person, you'll understand, it's a heck of a value for the money.

I can see where you're coming from. However, the touring forum is full of good folks whose advice I trust. (Maybe a few other forums as well, but I digress.) It's also a shame to buy a bike because it's made by the Microsoft of the biking world, aka Trek.

Seems to me people who buy Treks are just following the herd. Moooo! Of course, Trek makes a good product and actually cares abut their customers, and at this point the analogy breaks down. Perhaps they're more the Borg or the Ben and Jerry's of bikes.

Trek is not the Microsoft of the biking world, not even close, for several reasons:

* Trek, while fairly big in the US, is small in Canada and a few other countries, very small in a bunch of others and non-existent every where else. Microsoft is dominant just about everywhere (although that is changing).
* Trek needs to compete with about 50 other companies, even in the US, some being almost if not the same size, Microsoft has 3-4 competitors and they are all much much smaller.
* Trek bikes are actually pretty good, now take Microsoft Vista, somebody please take Vista and put it out of it's misery, (Before I upgraded to Ubuntu (Linux) I kept wanting to do this ->..:crash: )

As for the Surly, remember it started out as just a frame and fork, and the dealer built it up, making for a semi-custom bike, meaning you could get any components you wanted on it. While you can get one that is built up by the factory now, I expect that they determined what components to use through what people were commonly building them up with, rather then what the factory could get lots of, cheap.