Commuting - Brooks saddle bad choice for commuting?

I use an old rigid mtb for my 6-mile commute on fairly rough city roads.

Last fall I sensed my 15 year old Selle Italia Turbo was going mushy (felt it squishing up into the soft tissues) so I threw a new Brooks Swift onto the bike.

I like the width of the Brooks (I have wide sit bones, about 130 to 140mm, depending which assometer you believe) and I actually use it on my racing and touring road bikes with padded bibs.

On the commuter, the stiffness is nice for climbing the 59th st. bridge and surging through an intersection when necessary, but it is rather too hard when riding over bumps and crevices in the road (I don't wear padded shorts when commuting).

I was going to go back to a new Turbo.....I was always worried about the Brooks getting rain soaked, stolen, or ruined by constantly grabbing it to maneuver a 30 pound loaded bike in and out of buildings on a daily basis.

Does anyone else have these concerns for a new Brooks, or do you beat 'em up on a utility bike?

I have Brooks saddles on all of my bikes that I commute on.

Fenders, a trunk bag or even a seat pack should keep the bottom dry.

They make some good saddle covers for the top that do not seem to adversely affect comfort. Besides, unless it's raining very hard, your ass should keep the top dry.

Scuffs only effect them aesthetically. They're so comfy they're worth it. I don't find them so hard that they make it terrible on potholes and cracks. Then again I ride steel.

it doesn't rain too much in Colorado here, and the snow is pretty dry, but I use fenders in the winter AND saddlebags.

I dunno, like I said, I think they're worth it.

I have Brooks saddles on all of my bikes.

...I was always worried about the Brooks getting rain soaked, stolen, or ruined by constantly grabbing it to maneuver a 30 pound loaded bike in and out of buildings on a daily basis.

Does anyone else have these concerns for a new Brooks, or do you beat 'em up on a utility bike?
These saddles have been around a lot longer than the newer plastic ones.

I used to hear a lot about how expensive Brooks saddles were, but it looks to me like the plastic ones are sometimes even more expensive.

I might get a new bike before I get a new saddle to replace my Brooks. When I do replace it, it'll probably be another Brooks.

As for rain, the UK gets a lot of that, where Brooks are made. Just make sure you treat it properly with Proofide. Brooks also sells a seatcover for a little over $10, but I don't know if it's necessary for rain.

I just bought my first Brooks saddle. Since I ride gravel roads that is quite rough, I bought a Flyer. It's working well for me but I only have about 600 miles on it so far. It's pretty well dimpled where it needs to be. I didn't do anything to it except put on proofide once.

If I left my bike outside 24/7 maybe I'd be concerned. If you are worried about it getting wet, buy the cover or throw a plastic bag on it.

Scuff or scratch a modern saddle and the chances are you have began the end of it... eventually the slight damage will get worse as rain and the weather get it and you will need to replace it.

Scratch or scuff a Brooks and you are actually adding to its charm, and it will take it for years. Think on this... you can actually buy scuffed and scratched (distressed) Brooks saddles as new. They sell a range of saddles that are intended to look years and years old. There IS a reason for that.

brooks are great. i have a dozen of the damned things including the first one that i bought- 35 years ago. don't worry about the rain. seriously. keep proofhide on them and they'll be fine. if you ride with fenders the bottom will barely get wet, and if you ride sitting down your ass keeps it dry. use a wal-mart bag to cover it if you've got to park it in the rain. the only worries are someone stealing the thing.

I'll add:

I do the plastic bag or two as a cheap (well, free, really) rain cover and there is a heavy duty drive chain lashing it down to the frame. I use a little leather conditioner (proofhide or other products I trust) if it gets wet - which has never been bad, actually. I have a blackburn style rear rack with trunk which acts as a fender.

as far as abuse - I was mainly referring to lifting the bike or shifting it sideways when trying to squeeze through doorways and in hallways to make room for people passing by. I wind up grabbing the bike by the handlebars in one hand and the rear of the saddle in the other.......I recall reading in various places that this is a no-no with brooks, as the leather can tear from the metal frame. Since most of my bike's weight is at the rear, this concerns me.

Does anyone else have these concerns for a new Brooks, or do you beat 'em up on a utility bike?

Nope. no concerns at all. It isn't made of glass. If you leave it out in the rain, just stick a plastic bag over it. Leave the bag in the rails of the saddle while riding.

After the bicycle, Brooks saddles are the greatest invention ever. :love: I have 8 of them.

These saddles have been around a lot longer than the newer plastic ones.

I used to hear a lot about how expensive Brooks saddles were, but it looks to me like the plastic ones are sometimes even more expensive.

I might get a new bike before I get a new saddle to replace my Brooks. When I do replace it, it'll probably be another Brooks.

As for rain, the UK gets a lot of that, where Brooks are made. Just make sure you treat it properly with Proofide. Brooks also sells a seatcover for a little over $10, but I don't know if it's necessary for rain.

I agree, Pete. These days, the Brooks saddles are a surprisingly good bargain. With the strength of the British Sterling, I hope that we don't see a big jump in prices of Brooks.

Rain, by the way, is bad for the saddles. I waterproof my saddles with a special formulated wax based leather balm. Even that isn't perfect. When leather saddles get wet, they get soft. When they get soft, they can get mis-shaped. This is one big drawback of leather saddles. I have a small saddlebag on most of my bikes. In it, I have shower caps that I gleened from stays at hotels that give them away in the room. These make great seat covers for when the bike is parked outside in the elements. I suppose a better quality shower cap from the Dollar Store would be even better.

One thing I notice is that scuffs get polished out of the leather as you ride it. I remember the first couple scratches and scuffs. I was so dis-heartened. Imagine my reclaimed joy as I watched the blemishes disappear over a couple days of riding.

I use an old rigid mtb for my 6-mile commute on fairly rough city roads.

Last fall I sensed my 15 year old Selle Italia Turbo was going mushy (felt it squishing up into the soft tissues) so I threw a new Brooks Swift onto the bike.

I like the width of the Brooks (I have wide sit bones, about 130 to 140mm, depending which assometer you believe) and I actually use it on my racing and touring road bikes with padded bibs.

On the commuter, the stiffness is nice for climbing the 59th st. bridge and surging through an intersection when necessary, but it is rather too hard when riding over bumps and crevices in the road (I don't wear padded shorts when commuting).

I was going to go back to a new Turbo.....I was always worried about the Brooks getting rain soaked, stolen, or ruined by constantly grabbing it to maneuver a 30 pound loaded bike in and out of buildings on a daily basis.

Does anyone else have these concerns for a new Brooks, or do you beat 'em up on a utility bike?

If you have wide sit-bones, you might really enjoy the Brooks "S" models. They are a little "S"horter and wider.

Just look at this gorgeous Brooks B-67 S saddle. It is so lovely and so comfortable. I like the springs which take a lot of the jarring out of a ride on a stiff road bike.

Honestly, when I go out to hop on my bike, it gives me great joy to see that rich leather saddle just shining and greeting me. The first thing I do is put my hand on that smooth leather and joyfully prepare for my ride. The steel frame is cold and hard. The drive train can be filthy. The tires dark and aggressive. But the saddle is always a source of loveliness and welcoming comfort like the reclining leather chair in my living room.

Such a warm, beautiful, comfortable leather saddle is a great way to start my day on the commute to work and it is a calming lovely way to end my work day on the commute home.

http://i9.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/cc/3c/2c30_1.JPG

If you have wide sit-bones, you might really enjoy the Brooks "S" models. They are a little "S"horter and wider.

Just look at this gorgeous Brooks B-67 S saddle. It is so lovely and so comfortable. I like the springs which take a lot of the jarring out of a ride on a stiff road bike.

Honestly, when I go out to hop on my bike, it gives me great joy to see that rich leather saddle just shining and greeting me. The first thing I do is put my hand on that smooth leather and joyfully prepare for my ride. The steel frame is cold and hard. The drive train can be filthy. The tires dark and aggressive. But the saddle is always a source of loveliness and welcoming comfort like the reclining leather chair in my living room.

Such a warm, beautiful, comfortable leather saddle is a great way to start my day on the commute to work and it is a calming lovely way to end my work day on the commute home.

http://i9.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/cc/3c/2c30_1.JPG

Nice words. I feel the same way-in a sense my Brooks makes me look forward even more to riding than anything else.

Mike, it's good to know that there's another person out there just as passionate about a Brooks.

I'm a big fan of the B17 and don't baby mine at all. I treat the leather of my Brooks like I treat my leather foot wear, jackets and full suits. I don't go to great lengths to prevent them from getting wet or dirty but I do clean and condition them regularly to prevent the leather from drying out.

I never cease to be amazed at the love and loyalty people have for these saddles! but I agree they definitely are more beautiful and interesting than the typical plastic shell seats.

The swift is plenty wide for me; I slapped my old Turbo Special on the commuter last night and spun around the block. It felt like I was sitting on a yardstick with padding! We're talking a difference of about 5cm width but also the shape and firmness.

Still, the Special has width at the very rear where I need it for climbing, and it definitely is nice to have a nasty saddle on the commuter that you can just use as a bike handle, get rain-soaked and not worry about theft with...

So, no one feels the lifting/moving the bike around by the back of the Brooks saddle is a bad move? I was very careful with this at first but it is just too difficult to avoid doing in actual use - I work in a very cramped building with a lot of foot traffic, so I am constantly maneuvering through tight spots to wheel the bike in and out of the office. My apartment building is also a headache to access, with heavy spring loaded doors, so you are always yanking the bike through tight spots.

I am not a prig who doesn't want to get a scratch on the Brooks; I'll be glad to see a patina on there. But a commuter bike lives a VERY hard life in these parts. In addition to the abuse of adjacent bikes locked alongside it on the street, the theft and rain issues, I am most worried about the constant grabbing it by the rear.....just to be clear, I don't do this with the Swifts installed on my racing or touring bikes. When riding those bikes, I have the space and time to grasp them properly (by the seat post, etc.), when I even need to hoist them at all (taking them off the car carrier, etc.). For daily commuting, when I am throwing the bike around constantly, it just isn't happening.

wow...I thought I was wierd for hanging onto my Brooks. Good to know I am not alone. I use neatsfoot oil on mine. I don't know how that compares with other products. Tried silicone waterproofing once..bad idea.. kept slipping off the seat!

I use an old rigid mtb for my 6-mile commute on fairly rough city roads.

Last fall I sensed my 15 year old Selle Italia Turbo was going mushy (felt it squishing up into the soft tissues) so I threw a new Brooks Swift onto the bike.

I like the width of the Brooks (I have wide sit bones, about 130 to 140mm, depending which assometer you believe) and I actually use it on my racing and touring road bikes with padded bibs.

On the commuter, the stiffness is nice for climbing the 59th st. bridge and surging through an intersection when necessary, but it is rather too hard when riding over bumps and crevices in the road (I don't wear padded shorts when commuting).

I was going to go back to a new Turbo.....I was always worried about the Brooks getting rain soaked, stolen, or ruined by constantly grabbing it to maneuver a 30 pound loaded bike in and out of buildings on a daily basis.

Does anyone else have these concerns for a new Brooks, or do you beat 'em up on a utility bike?

I have Brooks saddles on all of my bikes with the exception of my '07 Sirrus which has a specialized anatomic on it (and it may also be switched to a Brooks if I find that it does not perform to my liking), but I have not ridden the bike enough to come to any sort of conclusion yet.

It's a general rule of thumb that Brooks saddles may be a little uncomfortable at first while they are breaking in; however, once they do they are like sitting on a cloud. The Conquest that is on my Monitor Pass is nicely dished to the shape of my sit bones. I also do not sweat maneuvering the bike by grabbing the saddle and my bike is running around 75 pounds with racks and panniers installed.

Scuff or scratch a modern saddle and the chances are you have began the end of it... eventually the slight damage will get worse as rain and the weather get it and you will need to replace it.

I left a cheap $10 synthetic plastic saddle outside that was all torn up from crashing out and in about 6 months, the worst thing that happened was the rails got rusty from all the rain.

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if I did the same thing to a brooks all leather saddle without caring for the leather?

I left a cheap $10 synthetic plastic saddle outside that was all torn up from crashing out and in about 6 months, the worst thing that happened was the rails got rusty from all the rain.

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if I did the same thing to a brooks all leather saddle without caring for the leather?

The leather might crack a bit. :(

I left a cheap $10 synthetic plastic saddle outside that was all torn up from crashing out and in about 6 months, the worst thing that happened was the rails got rusty from all the rain.

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if I did the same thing to a brooks all leather saddle without caring for the leather?

It would help illustrate one of life's important lessons. The things that are worth having demand care and attention whereas crap is difficult to destroy or get rid of.

I wouldn't advise too many lifts directly by the leather, instead use the rails, top tube, seat tube, seat post, etc... Other than that, go for it - the saddles are supposed to be used, and like said above - they're not glass, just treat them as per the care instructions included (Proofide) and you're good to go.

Plastic bag under rails for rainy outside lockups is exactly what I do, too - perfect low/no budget solution. Oh, and fenders :D

I've got 2 B-17s, both on my primary use bikes, I frankly wouldn't want it any other way - they're so comfortable.

I've ran my saddles through winter/fall/summer weather, used them on my main bikes exclusively, including scratches against bricks/store walls, bangs down to the ground at alleycat checkpoints, the odd time I've gone down to the asphalt and other use and abuse - they stand up remarkably well, just take care of them.

Where should I purchase a B17? It seems that a lot of the online stores are out.
I really like the honey saddle with the copper rivets.

thanks~

I commute daily on a brooks B17 Champion. *shrugs* Sometimes it gets wet. The bottom edges soak it up. It was $50 recently, I'm sorry I can't recall where I got it online, but I found out about the deal here in the commuter forum about 7 months ago.

I had a B-17 Champ. Std. until recently (testing the B-17 Imperial, currently), and with over 4000 miles on it, there was never a worry about it being the "wrong" saddle for commuting. It's comfortable and durable. Here's my personal list of do's and do not's when it comes to a Brooks saddle (your opinion may differ):

- Do use a seat cover in the rain
- Do treat it with Proofide or Obenauf's LP
- Do give it time to break in
- Do expect to adjust it a few times before getting the position right

- Do not use combinations of garage science and medieval alchemy to soften the leather
- Do not get it sopping wet in the rain
- If you do get it sopping wet in the rain, do not ride on it when it's like that.

I definitely like the feel of the brooks for the commute ride. Even rock hard i like it (I've got about 750 miles on there, mostly seated spinning and no signs of breaking in yet), except for when I hit a bump with no padded shorts.

I use the plastic bags and keep it out of the rain. I've hit it lightly maybe three times in as many years with proofhide (The saddle sat for about 18 months till my old Turbo wore out).

It's really the constant lifting I was worried about. I hate to think of it getting stolen, but better that than it sitting unused in the box.....If the lifting is really bad for it I'd rather stick it on another bike not used for commuting (course, then I'd have to buy a fourth bike!!!;))

Just out of curiosity, what would happen if I did the same thing to a brooks all leather saddle without caring for the leather?

I've seen a couple old B72's off of some old Raleighs' that looked much better than the bicycle did. B72's were the primary saddle on a lot of these old 3 speeds and most people back then didn't worry about protecting their saddle, they just got on the bike and rode. 30 years later, those abused saddles fetch ~$50 on ebay.

Indeed - i bought an older model Brooks off ebay for a display bike restoration project.....it's weathered looking but I bet i could hop on and ride it another 5 or 10 years with a little conditioner and TLC.....

(I've got about 750 miles on there, mostly seated spinning and no signs of breaking in yet)

Does it really take that long to break in? I'm considering a Brooks saddle but my commute is only 15 miles, so I'm riding, Monday-Friday, about 75 miles a week. Is it really gonna take more than 2.5 months of commuting to break in?

Does it really take that long to break in? I'm considering a Brooks saddle but my commute is only 15 miles, so I'm riding, Monday-Friday, about 75 miles a week. Is it really gonna take more than 2.5 months of commuting to break in?

There's two camps on this one:

1 - The saddle breaks-in over use

2 - Your butt breaks-in over time


I think it's a combo of the two. I found the B-17 to be comfortable right out of the box, but it did get even more comfy as I rode more. 750 miles without any break-in signs would be a very extreme case, IMO. Mine was starting to show crease marks (break-in) after only 50 miles.

How does one measure the sitzbones? or... where can I find an assometer?

I use an old rigid mtb for my 6-mile commute on fairly rough city roads.

Last fall I sensed my 15 year old Selle Italia Turbo was going mushy (felt it squishing up into the soft tissues) so I threw a new Brooks Swift onto the bike.

I like the width of the Brooks (I have wide sit bones, about 130 to 140mm, depending which assometer you believe) and I actually use it on my racing and touring road bikes with padded bibs.

On the commuter, the stiffness is nice for climbing the 59th st. bridge and surging through an intersection when necessary, but it is rather too hard when riding over bumps and crevices in the road (I don't wear padded shorts when commuting).

I was going to go back to a new Turbo.....I was always worried about the Brooks getting rain soaked, stolen, or ruined by constantly grabbing it to maneuver a 30 pound loaded bike in and out of buildings on a daily basis.

Does anyone else have these concerns for a new Brooks, or do you beat 'em up on a utility bike?

I pull a trailer with 300 pounds on it and routinely use my brooks to pull it up over a curb. That is a lot of weight on the back of the saddle as I pull and pull on it....no problems there.

I also use a brooks champion flyer and that takes the bumps out.

There's two camps on this one:

1 - The saddle breaks-in over use

2 - Your butt breaks-in over time


I think it's a combo of the two. I found the B-17 to be comfortable right out of the box, but it did get even more comfy as I rode more. 750 miles without any break-in signs would be a very extreme case, IMO. Mine was starting to show crease marks (break-in) after only 50 miles.

I think use is more like it....I average maybe 25 miles per week on it, maybe 26 wks per year. I am NOT of the soak it in oil mindset. A little conditioner to keep it water resistant and watch for drying out, but I believe in letting leather soften with natural use.

Still, at 220 pounds, I woulda thought my sit bones woulda made some dentage by now!!:twitchy:

I pull a trailer with 300 pounds on it and routinely use my brooks to pull it up over a curb. That is a lot of weight on the back of the saddle as I pull and pull on it....no problems there.

I also use a brooks champion flyer and that takes the bumps out.

wow! Maybe I was worrying over nothing.

I rode in with the Turbo special this AM.....weird feeling after riding a wide rock hard Brooks for the last two years.....I used to think of the Special as a firm racing saddle - it feels like a cushy gel seat for Freds now....

'nother Brooks/leather saddle fan here:thumb:. I run them on most if not all of my bikes. Proofide the crap out of the undersides a couple of times a year. Ride with fenders, and use the free shower caps from the motels as saddle covers if the bike is parked outside. As far as damaging the saddle by grabbing the back of it...as long as you have your hand on a piece of the saddle framework I don't see a problem, grabbing just the leather...maybe.

Aaron:)

The rail at the back is so close to the edge, just put your fingers in that and lift. I use that all the time. I wouldn't grab it by the side of the saddle and lift (the wings so to speak) because there is no support there, and it might be more likely to pull from the rivets.

My seat has been more wet from sweat on a summers ride than in a downpour with no problems (I think I proofhided once when I got it...) but I don't leave it out all day in the rain.... makes the chain rust :-)

For breaking in the saddle, my butt was only sore for about 1-2 weeks max. Of course, it was already sore from my former "ergonomic" saddle, so it just got better from there. After the first couple weeks, it fit like a butt-glove :D

I should mention even tho I haven't noticed any softening of my brooks, I was able to ride them from day one with no issues. They are indeed rock hard when new, but I prefer a firm mattress generally speaking.....


I tried a commute on my old Turbo Speical saddle today....weird.......it definitely soaked up the nasty bumps and ruts better (They are doing lotsa work right now around 34th street - ouch) and The Turbo's longer length and orientation of the rails allow you to scoot your butt a bit further back, which really helped on climbing......but yeah, I missed my Brooks!!:D

1. Your Brooks will NEVER soften ... unless something has gone terribly wrong. Your Brooks will always be a hard saddle ... that's how it is supposed to be.

2. When your Brooks is broken in, it will develop divots for your sitbones, making it a custom saddle, and will perhaps, have a little more give.

3. Brooks saddles can take some time to break in. Some people can hop on them and ride ... mine took 800 kms (3 weeks) to break in.

4. Brooks saddles can withstand a lot more water than people give them credit for.




I am a randonneur, cycletourist, commuter, recreational rider, etc. etc. etc.. I've logged about 40,000 kms on my Brooks saddle, and have ridden it in all sorts of weather ... heat, sun, drizzles, torrential downpours, snow, slush, sleet ... you name it. And my Brooks is still the most comfortable saddle I have ever owned. I'm planning to order another this summer.

I have Brooks saddles on all 3 of my road bikes. Ditto on the proofide and a plastic bag when it's raining hard. Brooks saddles are pretty tough. We don't worry too much about our saddles getting stolen in upstate NY :)

Scott

Any problems with mold and mildew on them? I occasionally have problems with leather shoes here.

What fraction of these are used without 'bike shorts', vs. those that used with padded 'bike shorts'? Do they have different designs for use with/without "cycle diapers"?

BTW, though my name is Brooks (Which actually makes it fairly disorienting to see a page full of the name 'Brooks'...) I don't work for or hold stock in the company.

On the commuter, the stiffness is nice for climbing the 59th st. bridge and surging through an intersection when necessary, but it is rather too hard when riding over bumps and crevices in the road (I don't wear padded shorts when commuting).
Sounds like you need to give yours a little more time to break in, and/or Proofhide it (some more) ?

I have a Brooks on my Surly Cross Check fixed gear and I love it. Was very firm at first, but I put Proofhide on a few times (maybe 3-4) and then just rode it a lot. I don't have a lot of miles on it yet, but it's now very comfortable and I don't notice it at all. Did a 17 mile ride on it this past Sunday and didn't have any soreness at all.

Steve

Any problems with mold and mildew on them? I occasionally have problems with leather shoes here.

Nope!


What fraction of these are used without 'bike shorts', vs. those that used with padded 'bike shorts'? Do they have different designs for use with/without "cycle diapers"?

I ride my B-17 either way ... I prefer riding long distances with padded shorts, but I'll ride shorter distances (under 100 kms) with regular shorts.

Any problems with mold and mildew on them? I occasionally have problems with leather shoes here.
Yes, but that is because I left a bike in a flooded basement. Wiping the saddle down was enough to fix the issue.


What fraction of these are used without 'bike shorts', vs. those that used with padded 'bike shorts'? Do they have different designs for use with/without "cycle diapers"?

Umm--I ride a B17 without cycling tights, and all of my upright Brooks without "diapers".
It really depends on how you have your bike set up, and less about the saddle. More upright, less lycra. More aggressive, more super hero gear.

Brooks has a whole range of saddles from racing saddles to heavily sprung tractor seats. The B17 is about the middle of the range.

Ugh - day two on the Turbo Special and my soft tissues are hurting (started last night after the ride home).

Not the usual "I just changed saddles and my body is adjusting" pain, either. This is more - "please give me my Brooks back"

I guess I'll have to live with the security chain and plastic bags....sigh.

On the positive side, I have about a dozen NOS padded saddles I'm gonna sell to raise funds for a backup Brooks, just in case the commuter bites the bullet or 'walks away' (did I mention I already have a new Swallow waiting for my next new road bike?:thumb:)

1. Your Brooks will NEVER soften ... unless something has gone terribly wrong. Your Brooks will always be a hard saddle ... that's how it is supposed to be.

2. When your Brooks is broken in, it will develop divots for your sitbones, making it a custom saddle, and will perhaps, have a little more give.

3. Brooks saddles can take some time to break in. Some people can hop on them and ride ... mine took 800 kms (3 weeks) to break in.

4. Brooks saddles can withstand a lot more water than people give them credit for.




I am a randonneur, cycletourist, commuter, recreational rider, etc. etc. etc.. I've logged about 40,000 kms on my Brooks saddle, and have ridden it in all sorts of weather ... heat, sun, drizzles, torrential downpours, snow, slush, sleet ... you name it. And my Brooks is still the most comfortable saddle I have ever owned. I'm planning to order another this summer.

You've sold me Machka.

That's good to know about the break-in...to my knowledge there were two types of brooks - the brand new cast iron types I own, and the ones that are all patina floppy you see on old three-speeds.....I'll keep riding mine patiently.

We don't worry too much about our saddles getting stolen in upstate NY :)

Scott

consider yourself envied!:p

I tried two other saddles when I started commuting last year. Finally went with a Brooks. I keep my bike inside at work/home so I have no issues there.

You've sold me Machka.

That's good to know about the break-in...to my knowledge there were two types of brooks - the brand new cast iron types I own, and the ones that are all patina floppy you see on old three-speeds.....I'll keep riding mine patiently.

Here's mine ... and those were taken at least 18 months ago.

.

I did not achieve butt nirvana on my commuter until I combined bike shorts with my B17. The B17 has about 3000 miles so I think it is about as broken in as it will get. Without bike shorts I get seams and bunched up underwear pressing into my tender spots.