This might be an interesting poll. Here's the situation. The street I live on intersects a major road (arterial with two lanes each way), so my street has a stop sign at that intersection, and the arterial has no light or stop sign in their direction. Basically, they have the full right of way. Except, there is also a highly visible crosswalk with highly visible signage about stopping for pedestrians, although there is no crossing light. When I am on my street preparing to cross the arterial, I do so vehicularly, stopping at the stop sign, taking the lane. About 80% of the time, someone on the arterial stops for me, often the person in the nearest lane on my left. I know what they're thinking: "There's someone on a bike, waiting to cross. I know I'm supposed to stop for pedestrians, so I'll stop for him too." Maybe they're just being nice. But anyway, it causes confusion and I really don't like it. But usually it ends up that other people observe the situation and stop also, so what can I do but go on through? (Carefully, of course, after checking the other lanes, and trying to make it obvious that I have to do so.)
I don't think I really have much other choice, so I'm not asking what you would do (although you are welcome to tell me if you do something different from me), but how it makes you feel. I suspect most people (except maybe those on this board) would think I'm silly to not just be grateful they are being nice, but to me, it feels condescending. I try so hard to ride according to the rules of the road and be an equal road user to them, but once again I'm not treated that way, even though at least they are erring on the positive side rather than the negative. The rational side of me is frustrated by their lack of understanding that I'm NOT a pedestrian.
How about you?
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
In that second option, perhaps "lack of respect" is too strong, but I don't think I can go back and edit the poll options. Consider "lack of understanding" as an alternative phrase.
StrangeWill
Typically I feel the people that are "too-polite" which are usually FEW and FAR between (and by crazy amounts) are people that are just generally too-police no matter what it is, not so much a lack of understanding or respect as it's just a personality trait.
LittleBigMan
When I am on my street preparing to cross the arterial, I do so vehicularly, stopping at the stop sign, taking the lane. About 80% of the time, someone on the arterial stops for me...The rational side of me is frustrated by their lack of understanding that I'm NOT a pedestrian.
How about you?
I hate when I come to a 4-way stop and time my stop so I can take my turn, then somebody waits for me out-of-turn. If I go at that point, maybe someone else facing another direction decides to go too, since it's their turn anyway.
When someone on the 4-lane artery stops for you, you still have to watch for drivers that aren't planning to stop. I'd rather people be predictable then overly-helpful.
CommuterRun
I don't like it, but I don't think of it as being patronizing or done out of lack of respect. Lack of understanding I agree with, and you and LBM touched on the reason.
I don't like it because, while the motorist doing this may simply be trying to be nice, if another motorist is present they may not understand why the first motorist is doing what they are doing and blow right on through.
I don't like it because someone making an exception to the rules of the road, even if the intent is to be gracious, is not acting in a predictable manner, and can potentially put others in a dangerous situation.
ilmooz
I think some people treat crosswalks with a sense of entitlement and will use them in defiance of any vehicles which may be intersecting them regardless of a vehicle's speed or position. All too often I've seen instances of pedestrians stepping out into four lane streets against lights in moderate to heavy traffic prompting dozens of cars to suddenly and unexpectedly stop, which in my opinion is considerably dangerous for all involved.
Drivers who have dealt with something similar to the above might see you and figure there's a good chance you're just going to cross anyway whether they're approaching you or not so they choose to yield to you rather than risk a collision or confrontation. Some might see all the highly visible signage and choose to yield to you rather than risk receiving a traffic ticket. Some might think it applies to you too, and others might just be considerate and want to give you a break.
I encounter the same type of intersection along the trail I regularly ride on. When I stop right at the street quite often drivers will yield unnecessarily to allow me to cross, however if I stop about 20 or 30 feet back from the intersection where I can still see when it's clear to cross vehicles will continue along their way as they should and I can then cross at my leisure when it's clear to do so. Either way, I don't let it bother me.
maddyfish
I live in an exceptionally nice area, people are very nice and polite. This happens all the time, I wave and go on. I can take or leave it.
John E
I think some people treat crosswalks with a sense of entitlement and will use them in defiance of any vehicles which may be intersecting them regardless of a vehicle's speed or position. All too often I've seen instances of pedestrians stepping out into four lane streets against lights in moderate to heavy traffic prompting dozens of cars to suddenly and unexpectedly stop, which in my opinion is considerably dangerous for all involved. ...
What are pedestrians supposed to do where traffic controls are 2km or even farther apart?
Jtarkey
I think i know what you're talking about kind of. A slightly similar situation is when I'm stopped at a light and the cars behind me are giving me too much space so the signal wont activate for the light. I always try to move forward really far to give them the message that they need to move up but they never do.
CB HI
Better too-nice than too-mean.
dynodonn
Better too-nice than too-mean.
I agree, though I'll make sure that surrounding motorists realize what the "polite" motorist is doing before proceeding.
The Human Car
Personally I think that intersections/motorists that do not accommodate pedestrians and cyclists discourage alternate transportation and with those that are left non-accommodations encourage too many to j-walk or j-bike, which does seem to appear significantly in fatality and crash stats. So I think over accommodation is better then under accommodation.
gcottay
In general, as others posters have said, I do not enjoy "too polite" drivers since they so often seem to waste time and increase risk.
In this particular case, though, I'd be happy at cars stopping for ANY object in a pedestrian crosswalk. Our local drivers ignore them even when the proverbial old lady is trying to cross the street.
invisiblehand
I think a little extra caution on the roads is generally appreciated. Anecdotally, people who are in a rush seem to create the most havoc.
The Human Car
... people who are in a rush seem to create the most havoc.
+1 :beer: That goes for both cyclists and motorists. :ride:
hunyak
Today I was number 3 at a 3 way stop. 3 of us stopped while 4 & 5 come up the right of way.
An overly polite driver with the right of way ( the one street without a stop sign ) stopped and waved for me to go. It was a nice gesture, but it really wasn't his decision to make. The motorist behind him wasn't too happy, stopping when there is no stop sign and everyone else waiting and showed it by honking.
The number two car in the right of way lane is the scariest. I've seen cars zip around the stopped car in this situation at this intersection several times before.
I waved the right of way driver on and he went on his way but then the number one driver in line at stop sign hesitated, waiting for me. I played traffic cop again and gestured him on.
It took a while to play out, but everyone would have gotten through the intersection much faster if they weren't overly polite.
It may have been my record track stand though...
CB HI
Today I was number 3 at a 3 way stop. 3 of us stopped while 4 & 5 come up the right of way.
...
It may have been my record track stand though...
See, it was your fault! Motorist do not seem to know what to do with a cyclist doing a track stand.
rajman
I make a show of facing the other way, and ignore them until they drive on past. Just because one person has stopped, does not mean that others will (especially as doing so would violate the principles of right of way)
Torchy McFlux
I make a show of facing the other way, and ignore them until they drive on past. Just because one person has stopped, does not mean that others will (especially as doing so would violate the principles of right of way)
Yeah, I find that when drivers yield when they're not supposed to it can cause more problems than anything else. Drivers in other lanes get confused, and anyone stuck behind the yielder could be resentful toward the cyclist for "causing" the delay.
I've often given motorists that think they're doing me a favour a dirty look and waved them on. I want to consistently be treated like a vehicle - lots of respect and no surprises.
ilmooz
What are pedestrians supposed to do where traffic controls are 2km or even farther apart?
My observation of "pedestrians stepping out into four lane streets against lights in moderate to heavy traffic" was in reference to pedestrians in crosswalks, not jaywalkers.
shmooth
I don't know what the answer is to this, but I would hope we can figure it out soon.
I don't have a good answer, but I'm certain that it's not:
a) putting on the annoyed face, or
b) ignoring the person trying to be nice to you, or
c) waving your hands frantically.
If things are iffy, I:
1) stop, and jump off my bike (just feet to the ground)
2) point purposefully at the driver whose turn it is to go
3) wait for them to go and for others to take their turn
4) then i go on my turn.
:)
Allister
If they're prepared to give way, I'm prepared to take it.
bkrownd
unpredictable is unsafe
SweetLou
I don't like them. I usually go if I consider it safe, but I shake my head and mumble something about learning the laws.
jwbnyc
I've been guilty of this, but not because it wasn't the cyclist's turn to go. Rather, waiting for the cyclist to go and they not trusting me to stay put. From a cycling POV - I think the annoying bit is, of course, having to put a foot down if motorists wait too long to go, but often that's exactly why they are waiting. They are more likely to just get on with it if you do come to a full stop, foot on the ground. I'll take the too solicitous driver over the road rager any day of the week. At least you know they are looking.
StrangeWill
I've been guilty of this, but not because it wasn't the cyclist's turn to go. Rather, waiting for the cyclist to go and they not trusting me to stay put. From a cycling POV - I think the annoying bit is, of course, having to put a foot down if motorists wait too long to go, but often that's exactly why they are waiting. They are more likely to just get on with it if you do come to a full stop, foot on the ground. I'll take the too solicitous driver over the road rager any day of the week. At least you know they are looking.
Yeah IMHO: No foot down is like a car thats creeping forward not completely stopped, you can't be sure of intentions and the guy looks like he's ready to jump out.
ShadowGray
I personally don't think they're being condescending, I think they're the same type of people who would wait out of turn for another car anyway... just really cautious drivers.
noisebeam
Motorist have been 'trained' by some cyclists that in order to avoid pissing them off or worse hitting them its better to stop and give them passage. It's hard to tell what kind of cyclist they are encountering, so the safe bet is to stop for them.
Al
noisebeam
Yeah IMHO: No foot down is like a car thats creeping forward not completely stopped, you can't be sure of intentions and the guy looks like he's ready to jump out.
I always stop, but I don't put a foot down unless I will need to stop for more than a moment.
I do signal my stop especially when there are other drivers who I want to communicate to that I plan on stopping. That works very well, gets me on my way quicker and has gotten me thanks.
Al
bkrownd
A problem is that putting a foot down is seen as a clear signal to the other cars at the intersection that you intend to let them all go ahead of you, regardless of who got there first. Sometimes I put the foot down if I'm clearly going to have to wait for 2-3 cars head of me, and want to project that. If I'm first or second in order I'll often stay balanced on the pedals, ready to take my turn. Sometimes I put a foot down before a left turn onto a through street to make it clear that I want to wait for traffic to clear, and nobody should stop to "let me in".
One of the big problems with stop signs is that cars and bikes stop so differently that it isn't clear to everyone who got there first. Cars approach fast, and stop more abruptly. Bikes slow down far more gradually. When a bike gets to the intersection slightly before a car, it appears to the car that he/she got there first, because of the faster approach and more abrupt stop. Gotta watch out for that. Add "nice" drivers that want you to jump ahead in the order and it can turn into complete chaos. *sigh*
jwbnyc
From a practical point of view, at some stage of the game, it's just best to let the Wookie win.
StrangeWill
I always stop, but I don't put a foot down unless I will need to stop for more than a moment.
I do signal my stop especially when there are other drivers who I want to communicate to that I plan on stopping. That works very well, gets me on my way quicker and has gotten me thanks.
Al
Ah yes signaling will help greatly though, I really do enjoy when cyclists are kind and thoughtful enough to signal when I'm driving around.
Though while cycling, if someone looks like they're going to try to insist I go first, whether at a stop sign or even stop lights (those are worse), I usually take out my water bottle and take my time drinking a few sips, make it look like I have absolutely no intention of going to just avoid the whole "No you go first!" thing all together.
JohnBrooking
Yeah IMHO: No foot down is like a car thats creeping forward not completely stopped, you can't be sure of intentions and the guy looks like he's ready to jump out.
For the record, most of the time, I am at a full stop with my foot down.
JohnBrooking
I personally don't think they're being condescending, I think they're the same type of people who would wait out of turn for another car anyway... just really cautious drivers.
I don't think they'd come to a stop from 30 MPH on an arterial for a car waiting at a cross street. For a pedestrian, yes, but that's my point. They put me in the same category as pedestrian. I can't get too mad at them simply for not knowing any better, but it's still annoying.
ATAC49er
I don't think too much about the motivations of drivers -- I just assume most of them are fumbling around in a fog.
When they're like normal -- hemorrhoids -- I'm never surprised; if you expect a driver to do the dumbest thing imaginable, you're only pleasantly surprised. Doesn't happen too often. So I usually just fend for myself. I take charge as much as those multi-ton steel sphincters will allow, and go on my way.
When they're "too nice", I feel a bit uncomfortable -- not because it's so rare, even though it is -- because they DO interrupt the flow of things. Don't bend over backwards for me, just GO! I won't hesitate to direct at a 4-way, and usually things straighten out.