Commuting - construction flagman directed me to the sidewalk

I ride through a road construction zone on my way to work and today the flagman directing traffic sternly told me to get on the sidewalk!! It was too busy to have a conversation and I didn't want to argue. So, I went to the sidewalk, rode around the flagman, and went back onto the street. It is bad enough that drivers don't know the rules of the road, but you'd think someone who is paid to direct traffic would.

In my old home state, in several cities you would have broken the law. Wonder if the flagman would have paid your fine had that been the case.

Depending on the traffic situation, he most likely would have gotten a one finger salute from me. :D

I ride through a road construction zone on my way to work and today the flagman directing traffic sternly told me to get on the sidewalk!! It was too busy to have a conversation and I didn't want to argue. So, I went to the sidewalk, rode around the flagman, and went back onto the street. It is bad enough that drivers don't know the rules of the road, but you'd think someone who is paid to direct traffic would.

Flagman is a loser, like most flagmen.

I don't know how official those flagmen are around there, but here they put a vest on any drunk homeless guy who can hold a flag and tell him to wave it for a few hours. Not somebody I take a scolding from, that's for sure.

In my old home state, in several cities you would have broken the law. Wonder if the flagman would have paid your fine had that been the case.

Agreed.

Again ... this flagman is an ignorant loser.

Depending on the traffic situation, he most likely would have gotten a one finger salute from me. :D

Most definetivelly.

Flagmen have no authority to regulate any kind of traffic ... they better be polite or otherwise get verbally abused.

I don't know how official those flagmen are around there, but here they put a vest on any drunk homeless guy who can hold a flag and tell him to wave it for a few hours. Not somebody I take a scolding from, that's for sure.

... just like Santa Claus performers.

Last summer my route took me through a construction zone that had the road down to one lane serving both directions for about 6-8 car lengths. There were flag people at both ends directing traffic. My first day through, I dutifully lined up in traffic behind the last car but placed towards the right hand side of the single lane so that I could see and be seen by the flag person on the far side. When our direction got the go ahead I took the center of the lane. Now as luck would have it no cars came up behind me, so I was the last “vehicle” in my direction before the flagman reversed flow and let oncoming vehicles pass.

Since it was a rather short passage, but slightly up hill I was able to almost keep up with the car in front of me but a gap about the length of two cars opened up. Needless to say the flag person on the far side let traffic go into that gap straight towards me! I took evasive action onto the grass then proceeded to tell the flagman, in very clear terms, what I thought about him almost killing me.

I pulled over and tried to capture the “How’s my driving” number of the work vehicle, but didn’t have a pen or pencil with me. While I was fiddling around the supervisor came over and asked me what my problem was. I told him that I didn’t appreciate the carelessness of his flagman and that I was a vehicle too as defined by PA state law.

As it turned out the supervisor was pretty willing to here what I had to say and agreed to talk to his crew. In fact the next day through the same area in the same situation the same flagman made sure I cleared the road before letting opposing traffic through. I think that had I not stopped and talked to the supervisor nothing would have changed.

I left for a month overseas for work the following week so by the time I was back all the work was done.

We don't have flagmen here -- it's all paid police details, and you better believe that does great things to keep costs down. Ahem. Anyway, I seem to recall back when the earth was flat and I took driver ed, that when you are directed to do something by a person directing traffic in an official capacity, you do it -- never mind if lights, signs or regs say otherwise. Someone directing traffic is there to handle a situation where lights, signage and regs are not adequate, so it makes no sense to insist on obeying lights/signs/regs when a human being directs you to do otherwise. You obviously don't do something that's going to harm yourself or others, but beyond that, you do what you're told.

They don' t call cars steel cages for nothing.

Maybe it has to deal with OSHA rules. Next time wear a orange vest and hardhat

A bridge that I cross every day is getting rebuilt right now. I've been riding over it during construction for about 4 weeks now. The newspaper said that the bridge would be "closed to bicycles and pedestrians" for the duration of construction, but there's no terribly reasonable alternate route (it's a couple of miles to go around it).

I just ride over it anyway. Nobody has even noticed me as far as I can tell, and the only holdup is that I'm ALWAYS getting held up by the car in front of me; I'm crossing the bridge far faster than the cars are (due to the much-narrowed and shifted lanes) and I wind up on the tail of any car in front of me, waiting for them to get out of my way. If anyone bothers me about it, as far as I've seen there's no signage, just that notice in the paper.

when you are directed to do something by a person directing traffic in an official capacity, you do it

What if they pointed a car or a motorcycle to drive on the sidewalk? Are you going to blindly drive your vehicle off a cliff because some moron in the middle of the road tells you to? We have brains, use them.

dipy911

Most definetivelly.

Flagmen have no authority to regulate any kind of traffic ... they better be polite or otherwise get verbally abused.

Not necessarily true. It depends where you're from. In my province, drivers are obligated to follow directions from people whom are authorized to direct traffic. Plus, driving fines double in construction zones here too.

Flagman is a loser, like most flagmen.

At least he has a job and is being productive to society. Don't be so hard on the guy. Maybe he's just following orders.

What if they pointed a car or a motorcycle to drive on the sidewalk? Are you going to blindly drive your vehicle off a cliff because some moron in the middle of the road tells you to? We have brains, use them.

dipy911

That's a pretty arrogant statement to make, calling someone a moron. There's a big difference between being directed onto a sidewalk for a short period and driving off a cliff. Grow up, you don't even know the guy.

What if they pointed a car or a motorcycle to drive on the sidewalk?

Well, then I guess I'd have to have the circus ponies trample them to death. What's that you say? Where'd I get the circus ponies? The same place you got a flagman who directs a car or a motorcycle to the sidewalk.

Well, then I guess I'd have to have the circus ponies trample them to death. What's that you say? Where'd I get the circus ponies? The same place you got a flagman who directs a car or a motorcycle to the sidewalk.

LMAO.

Is this really a big deal? Do you honestly feel less safe on the sidewalk for that portion of your trip or are you just irritated that he's taking away your right to ride in the road. Really the man probably is looking out for your best interest and everyone else's. Voodoocommuter's story is a perfect example. Construction areas aren't set up for bike travel and people aren't expecting it. He may have let you go, but if nobody else was looking out for you, you could've found some trouble without an exit. He is responsible for the traffic in that area. That is his one and only goal and if he feels that you're safer on the sidewalk, chances are that you are. I know it's inconvenient and seemingly disrespectful of your decision to ride but, in the scheme of things, not really a battle I'd pick to get worked up over.

It is bad enough that drivers don't know the rules of the road, but you'd think someone who is paid to direct traffic would.

I wouldn't.

... Brad

Didn't we just have one of these threads a week ago?

I've been directed on to the sidewalk before when traffic was cut to one lane. I realized the flagman did it to help me out, so I didn't have to wait for the cars to go through the other direction before I continued. I was pretty happy about it.

What if they pointed a car or a motorcycle to drive on the sidewalk? Are you going to blindly drive your vehicle off a cliff because some moron in the middle of the road tells you to? We have brains, use them.

dipy911

Back when the earth was flat and you took driver's ed, it was police only that had the authority to direct you in that manner... and indeed if they tell you to drive off a cliff, you head the vehicle that way... (of course being a smart cyclist, you jump out of the vehicle before it goes over the edge).

Bottom line however is that most flagmen have no authority, were as police do.

I don't know how I would've have acted in the same situation. I know that I would've been a little ticked. But, what's one more inconvenience? I think I could see myself trying to sneak around the guy when he wasn't looking, but I wouldn't start any kind of altercation.

I don't know how official those flagmen are around there, but here they put a vest on any drunk homeless guy who can hold a flag and tell him to wave it for a few hours. Not somebody I take a scolding from, that's for sure.

You're definitely not from around here. Flagman is usually a flagWOMAN and it seems to be the choice job during the summer for the college girls (read young and pretty and seems to always wear a too small top and shorts). Maybe it is a psychological thing...... pretty girl equals guys will look at and pay attention to her and presumably the sign she holds too.

We don't have flagmen here -- it's all paid police details, and you better believe that does great things to keep costs down. Ahem. Anyway, I seem to recall back when the earth was flat and I took driver ed, that when you are directed to do something by a person directing traffic in an official capacity, you do it -- never mind if lights, signs or regs say otherwise. Someone directing traffic is there to handle a situation where lights, signage and regs are not adequate, so it makes no sense to insist on obeying lights/signs/regs when a human being directs you to do otherwise. You obviously don't do something that's going to harm yourself or others, but beyond that, you do what you're told.


the flagman in the op case cannot force a vehicle of the road because it does not compute in his minuscule brain that bicycles belong to the road.


bicycles belong to the road (or the sidewalk if it suits ME)

Before everyone gets irate, take into consideration that there are some construction sites where the road conditions are not safe for small bike tires and exposed cyclists, and in some places all vehicles can't be considered equal. Things like metal plates, deep gravel, large rocks, falling rocks and tree limbs, large pavement gaps, construction equipment that might not be able to see bikes well, blasted sand and flying rocks kicked up by equipment, and sharp debris are all possible hazards that require special consideration when it comes to bikes.

We don't have flagmen here -- it's all paid police details, and you better believe that does great things to keep costs down. Ahem. Anyway, I seem to recall back when the earth was flat and I took driver ed, that when you are directed to do something by a person directing traffic in an official capacity, you do it -- never mind if lights, signs or regs say otherwise. Someone directing traffic is there to handle a situation where lights, signage and regs are not adequate, so it makes no sense to insist on obeying lights/signs/regs when a human being directs you to do otherwise. You obviously don't do something that's going to harm yourself or others, but beyond that, you do what you're told.

+1 (and +1 to brownd's post just above this)

I just ask if there's a way to get through. If there is, they'll let me know what to do; if not, they'll point me around.

It's not MY construction site -- I don't know exactly what they're doing, how big the equipment is that day, or what rules their supervisor has set. The flagman knows that stuff better than I do.

Didn't we just have one of these threads a week ago?

Yes. Don't worry, it will be back sometime next month. You're not supposed to notice.

I ride through a road construction zone on my way to work and today the flagman directing traffic sternly told me to get on the sidewalk!! It was too busy to have a conversation and I didn't want to argue. So, I went to the sidewalk, rode around the flagman, and went back onto the street. It is bad enough that drivers don't know the rules of the road, but you'd think someone who is paid to direct traffic would.

And what exactly was wrong with that? Sometimes in construction zones cars drive on the "wrong" side of the road. Isn't that against the law? Everyone has to make concessions in situations like that. Relax. Go with the flow. The flagperson is likely looking out for your best interests.

Not to be mean, but...

I'll bet the OP wouldn't be so upset if a tree branch fell on him after the working crew cut it down.

"Cycling advocacy misdirected", I say.

In my old home state, in several cities you would have broken the law. Wonder if the flagman would have paid your fine had that been the case.

In your home state it is also illegal to drive on the left hand side of the road, in the lane of oncoming traffic. Yet, amazingly, flaggers can instruct you to do so. I bet you $1 flaggers in your state have enough athority to direct cars onto a sidewalk if the situation warrants it.

In your home state it is also illegal to drive on the left hand side of the road, in the lane of oncoming traffic. Yet, amazingly, flaggers can instruct you to do so. I bet you $1 flaggers in your state have enough athority to direct cars onto a sidewalk if the situation warrants it.

+1

I've been directed up onto the sidewalk and onto the wrong side of the road in my car in certain construction situations. If the road is all dug up, where else are they going to send traffic? It's either that or maybe a long detour.

Perhaps the OP would have preferred a long detour??

>Flagman is a loser, like most flagmen.

Tad judgmental, don't you think?

Steve

Is this really a big deal? Do you honestly feel less safe on the sidewalk for that portion of your trip or are you just irritated that he's taking away your right to ride in the road. Really the man probably is looking out for your best interest and everyone else's. Voodoocommuter's story is a perfect example. Construction areas aren't set up for bike travel and people aren't expecting it. He may have let you go, but if nobody else was looking out for you, you could've found some trouble without an exit. He is responsible for the traffic in that area. That is his one and only goal and if he feels that you're safer on the sidewalk, chances are that you are. I know it's inconvenient and seemingly disrespectful of your decision to ride but, in the scheme of things, not really a battle I'd pick to get worked up over.

I have to agree with this, and I'm the last person in the world who would advocate footpath/sidewalk cycling.

The guy probably has a difficult enough job dealing with the traffic in that area as it is, and there's nothing stopping you from getting back on the road as soon as you've cleared the construction zone. About the only time I'd argue is a blatantly dangerous situation, like riding a 14% descent into oncoming traffic (something I was asked to do a few years ago, I politely declined on that occasion). For 30 seconds, use the sidewalk, accept it, then get back on the road and be on your way. If it really bothers you that much, find another route. It's much easier than sitting there and arguing over something that probably won't be there in a few weeks anyway.

Well said, Chris. I'm the last person you'd see voluntarily riding on the sidewalk, but I agree 100% with your statement.

Last summer I had a flagger ask me to use a sidewalk. It was all of half a block long and covered in sand and god knows what else. I politely declined. I suppose if he had ordered me to use it a discussion may have ensued or I would have turned around a went a different route depending on my mood.

Not necessarily true. It depends where you're from. In my province, drivers are obligated to follow directions from people whom are authorized to direct traffic. Plus, driving fines double in construction zones here too.

Authorized by whom? A police official or a construction foreman? Can I authorize one of my kids to direct traffic?

Authorized by whom? A police official or a construction foreman? Can I authorize one of my kids to direct traffic?

What's with this "authorized by whom" paranoia? Do you honestly think that random nutjobs walk up to construction sites, don reflective vests, pull a flag out of their back pockets, and start directing traffic? Do you typically demand that people provide you with credentials certifying that they're "authorized" to perform their jobs? Hey, here's someone running a cash register and the Buy n Fly, and I just took their word for it that they're an authorized cashier, gave them my money and drove off with OMG $30 WORTH OF GASOLINE THAT IS NOW STOLEN PROPERTY!!!

w. t. f.

What's with this "authorized by whom" paranoia? Do you honestly think that random nutjobs walk up to construction sites, don reflective vests, pull a flag out of their back pockets, and start directing traffic?
w. t. f.
I think my point sailed straight over your head. Point is, if the jackass with a flag is just some sh*thead deputized by a road construction contractor, then when he tells me to do something illegal or unsafe I'm going to ignore him, since he has as much authority as a mall security officer, probably less. If he's authorized by the cops I might not have the choice.



Do you typically demand that people provide you with credentials certifying that they're "authorized" to perform their jobs?
When they're telling me what to do, and it's something I don't want to do? Better damn well believe it. Do you just blindly do what morons tell you to do, Mr. Sheep?


w. t. f.
Ya got that right at least.

You're definitely not from around here. Flagman is usually a flagWOMAN and it seems to be the choice job during the summer for the college girls (read young and pretty and seems to always wear a too small top and shorts). Maybe it is a psychological thing...... pretty girl equals guys will look at and pay attention to her and presumably the sign she holds too.

This section of the thread is useless without photographic evidence lol

I think my point sailed straight over your head. Point is, if the jackass with a flag is just some sh*thead deputized by a road construction contractor, then when he tells me to do something illegal or unsafe I'm going to ignore him, since he has as much authority as a mall security officer, probably less. If he's authorized by the cops I might not have the choice.

Who are you to say that he's not directing you somewhere safer and/or quicker?

(that's really directed more to the OP, but I haven't seen him post in this thread since starting it)

The last time I got waved anywhere by a flagman, he told me I could use the sidewalk. I did, and it was basically a shortcut, giving me three blocks' less distance than if I took the detour with traffic. Plus, there was no way I could have gotten through by staying on the street.

So, then -- if I ignored the flagman, should I have also *****ed at the crew for doing street construction?

More discussion here:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=412264

And if anyone's looking for "whose authorization", JRA had a good rundown in post #12:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showpost.php?p=6601299&postcount=12

In particular:

UVC § 11- 103(a) Obedience to authorized persons directing traffic
No person shall willfully fail or refuse to comply with any lawful order or direction of any police officer, firefighter, flagger at highway construction or maintenance site, or uniformed adult school crossing guard invested by law with authority to direct, control or regulate traffic.

Before everyone gets irate, take into consideration that there are some construction sites where the road conditions are not safe for small bike tires and exposed cyclists, and in some places all vehicles can't be considered equal. Things like metal plates, deep gravel, large rocks, falling rocks and tree limbs, large pavement gaps, construction equipment that might not be able to see bikes well, blasted sand and flying rocks kicked up by equipment, and sharp debris are all possible hazards that require special consideration when it comes to bikes.

Yeah, I'm a little surprised at all the righteous indignation. Why not just happily ride around the mess, get back on the road and forget about it.

Then again, I have three year old twins at home... so anytime I'm riding I'm ALONE and therefore experiencing ultimate peace. A black helicopter could land in my path, aliens could get out and hold a gun to my head and require I ride the frame upside down down the center stripe and I would happily comply, probably whistle a little tune... :thumb:

I think my point sailed straight over your head. Point is, if the jackass with a flag is just some sh*thead deputized by a road construction contractor, then when he tells me to do something illegal or unsafe I'm going to ignore him, since he has as much authority as a mall security officer, probably less. If he's authorized by the cops I might not have the choice.

Well, whatever. You seem bent on assuming that anyone who tells you to do anything is trying to harm you. Several people have pointed out that a construction flagman might know an eensy teensy bit more than you do about the road conditions coming up, and others have pointed out that when construction's going on, the usual assumptions need to be discarded, i.e., that you should be in the street. You want to call me a sheep, well, if not being a sheep means that you see flagman's action as tantamount to some malt-liquor-swilling chucklehead in a pickemup truck bawling, "Get on the sidewalk, ya fairy!" out his window at you, I guess I'd rather be a sheep, thanks all the same. You would rather be treated like a car at all times, it seems. I've never seen the sense in that. I'd rather sometimes not be treated like a car and continue to be able to park on the sidewalk, but you suit yourself.

I think my point sailed straight over your head. Point is, if the jackass with a flag is just some sh*thead deputized by a road construction contractor, then when he tells me to do something illegal or unsafe I'm going to ignore him, since he has as much authority as a mall security officer, probably less. If he's authorized by the cops I might not have the choice.

You moron, the outfit he works for is authorized by the state. They are also authorized by the state to delegate authority.

Yeah, I'm a little surprised at all the righteous indignation. Why not just happily ride around the mess, get back on the road and forget about it.
This should be the point of getting through any construction or accident zone.

My experiences on a bike getting through accident and construction zones are much better than they are for cars. I find that if I get treated differently, it is typically priority treatment. A couple times, I've heard them radio the other side as soon as I approach so I don't have to wait nearly as long as others. If they're not letting cars through at all (i.e. the road is temporarily closed), they always find a way to let me through.

Well, whatever. You seem bent on assuming that anyone who tells you to do anything is trying to harm you.
No, if someone tells me to do something dumb, I assume they're just stupid until proven otherwise. Huge difference. That's takes me out of the paranoid category and puts me in with general misanthropes. As a famous quote attributed to about 5 people goes, "never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence".



You want to call me a sheep, well, if not being a sheep means that you see flagman's action as tantamount to some malt-liquor-swilling chucklehead in a pickemup truck bawling, "Get on the sidewalk, ya fairy!" out his window at you, I guess I'd rather be a sheep, thanks all the same.

First, how dare you malign malt liquor like that. ;) Second, if he expects me to do something that appears unsafe/illegal, I'll expect some clarification. I'm not blindly listening to the guy, because the possibilty that he's just another jackass telling me to get on the sidewalk does exist. But I'll still put that well behind the possibility that he's just an idiot.



You would rather be treated like a car at all times, it seems. I've never seen the sense in that. I'd rather sometimes not be treated like a car and continue to be able to park on the sidewalk, but you suit yourself.
Nope. In fact, so far, you're about 0/10 in assuming what I'm thinking. I don't ride on the sidewalk because it's unsafe for me and others. They're narrow, uneven, cars don't see you there, and they're populated by people walking, pushing strollers, handling dogs, etc. I'm a vehicle that averages about 18mph. Those two don't work together. Additionally, my father had his wrist shattered after getting hit by some idiot riding his bike fast on a sidewalk. I'm not going to be that guy.

You seem to have me confused for the hard-core VC crowd. Not so. Of my usual commute, 60% is a wide MUP, 30% is a road wide enough to share (so I ride to the right), and 10% is a road with narrow lanes, where I take the lane. I have no ego-driven need to be on a road, be treated like a car, etc. I'm all about doing the safest thing for me and others. Note if I *decide* that a sidewalk is the safest recourse for a short distance, no problem, I'll coast at about 8mph. But I'm not going to blindly follow orders from some idiot hired by a construction company. I'm not a blind follower - on or off a bike - and never have been. So if he tells me to do something I know to be generally a bad idea, I'll ask why. Minus clarification, I'm going with my own judgment.

Positive Flagman

I said can a bicycle go through (a closed road to vehicles)? They closed the whole side of the road.

After I get my yes off I went 10 miles The only other option was the 2 lane road, very few places to turn off (cliff), and all the traffic is on this detour. I have a 5 cars and I need to pull over rule. Considering 5 cars would take 10 seconds.

DPS was pissed off at MR. Flaggman.
:)

Wow. Just wow. I know I have my moments but some of y'all need to get out, ride a bike, and destress.
Eeek!

I am the OP and wow, so many replies!

To respond to some things:

1. I really am not "worked up", "upset", or full of "righteous indignation." I just found it odd that the flagman would direct me to do something illegal. I've had cars honk at me to get on the sidewalk, but riding in the street is the safest place to be, and I naively thought someone directing traffic would know how to handle a cyclist riding through.

2. I understand that normal traffic laws do not always apply in construction zones. However, in this case the sidewalk is NOT safer. The road is two lanes and is completely closed to traffic in one direction. In the direction that it is open, it is only open periodically as heavy equipment is moving in and out of the lane. The sidewalk on one side is completely closed, the sidewalk on the other side is partially covered with construction debris and is partially being used as a parking lot for construction vehicles that I have to ride around. The traffic lane is clear when cars are going through. Therefore, the traffic lane is safest as long as I am moving with the flow of traffic.

3. The flagman was actually a flagWOMAN as someone else suggested. However, I did not get a chance to get a close look at her. Perhaps I'll stop and take her picture tomorrow morning and see how well that goes over. :)

4. I have "gotten over it." I'm taking a detour around the whole construction site. It adds 3/4 of a mile to my commute, but it is peaceful.

5. I'm not an aggressive cyclist. I'd like to stay alive. I ride on the shoulder whenever possible and obey traffic signals and stop signs. I just don't like being forced into a minefield of crap on the sidewalk and increasing my chances of hitting or getting hit by something.