Fifty Plus (50+) - Am I to big to be a climber?

At 6' and 214lbs and going down. Am I to big to be a good climber? Climbing is what I would realy like to be good at. And if my size is not a problem how should I train to get better at it? I only started riding last Aug and I know this won't happen overnight but I am ready to start. So am I to big or is this something I can accomplish with HARD WORK and if so where do I start? Do I just climb? If so I live in the right place.

I am 6'1" and 205 (going down), and the best advice I can give is the most obvious - climb more. I've also found that, of my three bikes, I have one that traverses hills better than the other two. I commute on my favorite, but the 'hill' bike is my training bike. I don't train for races, but I do train to be better at hills.

Find a hill (mine is 2 miles, 5% grade) and ride up and down it until you can't ride any more. Find a good spinning speed and gauge your progress by which gear you are comfortable in ascending the hill. Soon you will find that not only are you spinning in a harder gear, but you can stand on the pedals for much longer.

I am 6'0 and started the season at 202, now down to 185. I have raced occassionally over the last three years in 55+ races. I find my size is a definite disadvantage. I love climbing just as you do, but have pretty much accepted that most well-trained 160 or 170 lb guys are going to beat me up the hills. It is still fun to try and it is possible to compete with myself by entering the same races year-to year. The number one race for me is the Iron Horse Bicycle Classic which is a race from Durango to Silverton, CO over two mountain passes. My goal for this year is to get there in under 3 hours which should be close to a top 10 finish.

In the same vein:

What improves your climbing more, short very steep hills, or longer not-so-steep hills? The maximum climb in my neck of the woods is 300', so usually you have to do one or the other.

I'm 5'8". I used to be 6' before all this climbing!

I'm 6' and 190lbs and climb pretty good when compared to other guys on group rides and training. I can't climb with my son's who are great bikers, 30+ years younger, and weigh 20 lbs less. Well I do climb with them, only, I get to watch them climb from behind. I was a track and field athlete in my younger days and just always expect to be good at climbing and sprinting. Climbing isn't much different than the suffering we did running intervals. As stated before, riding hills makes you a better hill climber. That statement is more valid if you have a "plan" when riding hills. I did a workout yesterday ,with one son and a riding friend, that included 4 hills and then 4 sprints over 20 miles. After warming up we rode up the first hill very hard (zone 4 to 5) then soft peddled down the hill to the next hill then rode up it really hard. We did this for 4 hills total. The hills were at least 1/2 mile to 3/4 mile long with a grade of 3.5% to 5%. The effort we put into the hills was much harder than what we would do in a race or group ride where the groups will keep the pace going. You'll need to determine what kind of hills you are riding and adjust the cadence/speed/time and effort to get the maximum workout you desire. You can also mix in some "standing" on the hills. Make sure the "out of the saddle efforts" are complimenting the workout. The standing effort helps to get over steep sections, give your quads a break ect... standing out of the saddle should not cause you to go into oxygen dept. becuase you won't recover going up the hill. One more trick when doing the intervals is to keep your speed/effort going up and over the climb, pick out a mail box or other landmark that is beyond the top of the hill and keep the effort going to that point. Doing that will keep you from mentally stopping on hills once at the top. The idea of intervals is to put more stress on your system than it is used to, the muscles and cardio vascular system will respond to the training and get stronger and more efficient then you will be more comfortable (if that's possible;)) when stressing your body while riding.

At your current size, etc., just ride as much as you can. You will improve and you can enjoy climbing all day once you are more conditioned, but you won't be a great climber against smaller people. It's rare to find a guy over 200 who is a great climber. I'm not saying you can't feel good and climb reasonably fast, just that the weight will always be a disadvantage against people much lighter.
I like to do long climbing rides, but I am usually the last one to the top of the mountain. They don't mind waiting, though.

6"-2" 203 lbs, Riding 5 months now. A friend changed the small sprocket on my Felt F-80 from a 30 tooth to a 24 tooth. Rode 101 miles of hills saturady in 8 hours.

Climbing is all about power to weight ratio. As you lower your weight you will become a more efficient climber. You can lower your weight by getting a lighter bike, but the best thng to do is to keep cycling and climbing. Eventually the weight will come down. Try working in some standing pedal strokes on a slightly harder gear and then shift up to an easier gear as you come back down to the seat. That can help you spin a little easier for a while.
I like attacking climbs, there's usually a downhill on the other side so you can use them to do something akin to interval work - hard blowouts followed by easier spins. That's some great country to ride in you've got.

I'm with the "just ride as much as you can" group. Obviously, continue to drop weight to the extent you can. Try to work climbing into every ride. My avg. ride is about 60' elevation gain per mile. If you don't have a Garmin or something, consider getting one. You can keep track of how much you climb. If you don't have a compact chainset, consider getting one - at least until you get stronger. Vary the way you attack hills: focus on spinning at a sustainable pace most of the time, but also select rides were you intentionally use bigger gears than are comfortable. Find hills that you can't quite do in the big chain ring, and see how far up them you can get without shifting. Practice standing when climbing.

I went to the gym last night, and did some seated leg presses after not doing any for a couple of months. Just from increasing the intensity of my power efforts while riding, my top lift weight went up by 20%. It's just an empirical measure for cycling, but confirmed my thoughts about my power level.

And....FIND OTHER PEOPLE TO RIDE WITH THAT LIKE TO CLIMB!!! :thumb:

My goal for this year is to get there in under 3 hours which should be close to a top 10 finish.
WOW ! That would be a very creditable ride indeed. I've done the Iron Horse a couple of times and felt lucky to beat the train. For me the darned ride is always early in the season - witness the foot of snow we are getting today. I don't know what it is about Coal Bank but that climb just seems to go on and on. It doesn't look steep but my word it has always had me turning my pedals so slowly.
Under three hours is a GREAT time for any age group. Congratulations in advance.

To see how weight effects power level (and therefore speed) one can use a power calculator. There are a number of on-line power calculators and, though the wattages displayed are approximations, you can get a sense of why power to weight ratio is important when climbing vs riding on flat ground. As an example, my weight is 165. The OP is 214. At 10mph on a 6% grade (assuming identical bike weights, no wind) I need to generate about 276 watts while the OP at 214 needs to generate 342. That is about 24% more power. On flat ground at 20 mph, the respective wattages are 212 and 222, for a 4.7% difference. Weight isn't a significant issue on flat ground whereas when the road tilts up it is.

One of my favorite on-line power calculators disappeared from the web a few days ago but the following one is good - easy to use and relatively good numbers.

http://bikecalculator.com/wattsUS.html

The following power calculator is very good but it takes some time to learn how to effectively use it.

http://analyticcycling.com/

At 6' and 214lbs and going down. Am I to big to be a good climber?

The answer depends on how you define "good climber".

If you mean will you be able to climb big hills faster than someone 50 lbs lighter who climbs as often as you, uses as good a technique as you and works as hard as you, I'm afraid the answer is no.

But can you be someone who can climb most any hill put in front of you? Can you be a faster climber than you are now? Can you climb faster and farther than other people your size? Can you climb faster and farther than some lighter riders who don't work at it as hard and as smart as you do? Absolutely! Yes you can.

I am 6' and 200 lbs and I consider myself a good climber. I climb every hill I can find. I work on my climbing technique. I gear my bike to make sure I have low enough gears to climb the hills I'll see.

I regularly climb hills faster and steadier than most people my size and some who are lighter but don't work at it. I am regularly dropped far behind by lighter riders who climb well. I am sometimes outclimbed by lighter riders who aren't great climbers and by heavier riders who are.

As long as you define "good" in terms of improvement and maximizing potential, you can become a very good climber if you work at it hard enough.

The answer depends on how you define "good climber".



But can you be someone who can climb most any hill put in front of you? Can you be a faster climber than you are now? Can you climb faster and farther than other people your size? Can you climb faster and farther than some lighter riders who don't work at it as hard and as smart as you do? Absolutely! Yes you can.


As long as you define "good" in terms of improvement and maximizing potential, you can become a very good climber if you work at it hard enough.


That is what I mean.

Where can I learn good techique?

As Pcad says, we're all too fat for this sport.

To be a good climber depends on what you consider good...to be a great climber, you need to weigh about 130lbs and have the stamina of the energizer bunny.

I am the worst climber in history. The other day, we had 20+ mile winds, and I was going right into them, and I started up a Kansas slope. A mild slope. I was in my easiest gear by the top of it.

Well, fast climbing is all about power to weight ratio which is something most people have pointed out.

Hills can be fun because there are times you can build up speed and muscle up a short hill pretty fast. If you try that on a longer hill, you blow up. A good way to climb, is to pick a speed that you can maintain and just motor you way up, whatever that speed is. It is something you get better with experience.

That is what I mean.

Where can I learn good techique?

Start by searching BikeForums and Google. How to climb is one of the most written about subjects in all of bicycledom. Number one on most lists is - to climb better, climb more. :giver:

Hills take some practice. You also need to guess at what gear to use and guess how fit you are at the time of the hill. Next to Soveg I am the worst climber.

That is what I mean.

Where can I learn good techique?
I dunno from technique. However....here's some links
http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s-4-41-16883-1,00.html
http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s1-4-41-183-1,00.html
http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s1-4-41-1304-1,00.html

I think I might read these myself.

In the same vein:

What improves your climbing more, short very steep hills, or longer not-so-steep hills? The maximum climb in my neck of the woods is 300', so usually you have to do one or the other.

Not to sound like a smart@$$, but riding short steep hills improves your ability to climb short steep hills; riding longer less-steep hills improves your ability to climb longer less steep hills. Both will help your climbing ability in general. Ride whatever hills you have access to, ride 'em hard, ride 'em often, but allow enough recovery time in between workouts. Your body will adapt to whatever demands you place on it.

SP

I dunno from technique. However....here's some links
http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s-4-41-16883-1,00.html
http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s1-4-41-183-1,00.html
http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,6610,s1-4-41-1304-1,00.html

I think I might read these myself.

Sorry, but those are Bicycling magazine links. It has been well established here that nothing useful is ever printed in those pages. One must assume the same holds for the website, so instead of reading them we should just make cycnical comments about them. :rolleyes:

Sorry, but those are Bicycling magazine links. It has been well established here that nothing useful is ever printed in those pages. One must assume the same holds for the website, so instead of reading them we should just make cycnical comments about them. :rolleyes:

But they have about the same info as other sites:rolleyes: Maybe they copied??

http://www.cptips.com/climb.htm

That is what I mean.

Where can I learn good techique?

Some say there is no such thing as technique when climbing. I do know, however, that you have to learn things about what works for you on a long climb. I always tried to keep my cadence high so I didn't stress my knees. Been pretty lucky so far. I think it's very important for heavier riders to spin to save those knees.
Another thing to focus on is your breathing. There is a method called breathplay, where you use different ways of counting your breath to maintain a rythym. For example, take 1 breath in and all the way out for 4 pedal strokes, or whatever. It teaches you to breathe in a consistant way.
Another thing to learn is your own limit. You get on a long hill and stay within yourself so you don't have to stop or blow up befroe the top.
Of course, on a short hill you can just sprint over it and if you get tired, the top isn't far.
Ask scvroadie about the 35 mile climb he did last Saturday, that one is special.

Not to sound like a smart@$$, but riding short steep hills improves your ability to climb short steep hills; riding longer less-steep hills improves your ability to climb longer less steep hills. Both will help your climbing ability in general. Ride whatever hills you have access to, ride 'em hard, ride 'em often, but allow enough recovery time in between workouts. Your body will adapt to whatever demands you place on it.

SP

Elegantly put.

Really, what I wonder about is 1) should we ride 'em until we puke, and 2) aren't we getting too old to be riding 'em until we puke? I'm not being facetious -- I really worry when I'm on the verge of a glory spew whether it's in fact the sign of the Big One.

I always tried to keep my cadence high so I didn't stress my knees. Been pretty lucky so far. I think it's very important for heavier riders to spin to save those knees.
Another thing to focus on is your breathing.

+1.

Any bike I use for hills has a low range of 30 gear inches or lower.

One very small tip on breathing that I read years ago (I think, in Bicycling magazine!)....to help you relax and breathe on a hill, move your hands toward the stem so that they are just touching the outside of the handlebar. In other words, you will move your hands in as close to the center of the bike as you can.

This really helps you relax...it helps you "open up" your rib cage and relax so you can breathe more deeply.
(You might find, instead, that you've been pushing to get momentum up the hill...you have a death grip on the hoods or the drops,you're pounding away at the hill, and your breathing is restricted.)

Much better (for me, anyway) to move my hands to the stem, open up my chest, and breathe while I spin to the top. Moving my hands also now is my signal to sit back and spin...

I only know a few techniques.

1) Belly breathing, where you use your stomach muscles to help the diaphram and pull out your lungs to their full extension. It's covered well in Bicycling Bliss (http://www.bicyclingbliss.com/)by Portia Masterson.

2) Being sure to lift my foot off the pedal on the upstroke. If you leave your foot on the pedal while its going up, then the foot creating the downstroke must use some of it's energy to push your other foot up. So don't fight yourself.

3) I've never met a gear too low. Find the one that is most comfortable, and spin quick and easy.

Riding till you puke, or feel like messing your pants is too hard. That is sprint training where "all out for 30 seconds" is the length of the interval then followed by a complete rest. Riding up long hills while spinning a gear you can handle should not make you want to puke. Your body will most likely tire out and your speed will decrease to a point of failure if you are riding above your fitness level. One goal of doing the hills is to have better form which will enable you to use your muscles more efficiently and ride under the added stress longer. When your are riding a hill concentrate on using the whole pedal stroke and not just pushing down with the quads. When the quads are "gone" so is your stroke. Keep your breathing as relaxed as possible and don't grip the bars with a "death grip" even though it seems to help. Just relax and endure the pain while riding in the most efficient manner by pushing the pedals across the top and scraping the bottom. While seated the leg only needs to lift it's own weight when returning the foot to the 12 o'clock position. I sort of have a mantra I repeat to myself on hills, "relax... pedal circles... breathe easy... relax... don't race... relax... don't blow up...etc....

I am the worst climber in history. The other day, we had 20+ mile winds, and I was going right into them, and I started up a Kansas slope. A mild slope. I was in my easiest gear by the top of it.

Headwinds can be just as tough as hills:mad:

I've hit the lower gears several times when battling strong headwinds.

For years I rode Mountain bikes and hills offroad in our area are around 12 to 15% Some are long- some are technical- but they are hills. When I changed over to the dark side- I thought road hills would be easy. At first they were not. I had to adapt, so only one thing to do and that was ride them. Became used to the hills but it all depends on what you call a good climber. I can climb all the hills round here. I can in a 20 mile ride and climb enough short hills to put in about 3,000ft of climbing. But to do them at speed- Forget it.

Last year- I did Ventoux- 13 miles and about 5,000ft of climbing. Sounds as though I did something exceptional- but I did not. That is only an average of 7.5% for the hill and the steepest bit is only 12%. Nowhere near as steep as the hills round here- just longer. Mind you- I did train for it. Found the 15% for a mile- Got in the lowest gear and just did repeats of it. First time and 3 was enough. When I got to 5 times- I found it boring so just sorted out that 20 mile route with lots of short hills.

If you want to climb hills- You train for them. Initially they will hurt. Then as you get fitter- they still hurt. They just don't take as long to climb

I am much too heavy to be much of a hill climber. At 6' 2" and 230 pounds, most climbs are difficult. However, I have practiced enough to be considered OK on hills by the other old guys and gals in my group rides. One thing I have learned is that I must ride through some discomfort (read pain). When riding a hill at 9% and higher I get in my lowest gear and still cannot really spin, so the discomfort appears and stays with me to the top. I just try to think of something else and keep turning the pedals over. The top of the hill will eventually show up.

At 6' and 214lbs and going down.

At that size, you're never going to be Pantani's second coming ;), but you can certainly improve in bunches. As others have stated, practice really does make perfect. Work on losing weight, and climb, climb, climb ...... and then when you can't possibly climb anymore ..... climb some more.

... Brad

PS: To quantify my first sentence, great climbers shoot for less than 2 lbs of weight per inch of height. How easy is it going to be to drop more than 70 pounds to get to that level? Same here. :twitchy:

... Brad

PS: To quantify my first sentence, great climbers shoot for less than 2 lbs of weight per inch of height. How easy is it going to be to drop more than 70 pounds to get to that level? Same here. :twitchy:

That formula puts me under 150lbs, 60 less than I am! There are some great climbers in my club who fit that formula. Oddly, one of the best climbers is around 175 and under 5'9", but he is a training maniac.

Sorry, but those are Bicycling magazine links. It has been well established here that nothing useful is ever printed in those pages. One must assume the same holds for the website, so instead of reading them we should just make cycnical comments about them. :rolleyes:
:lol:
Here's a funny thing. I've been getting Bicycling for the last year? or so in my PO Box for free. What's up with that? Occasionally I get a request to "renew" my subscription which I immediately round-file. Is it because I shop at Performance? I do buy the occassional VeloNews and Dirt Rag at Performance.
As for the articles: I just searched on climbing within the web site. Did not read them until later and - though I recognize and agree with the snark - I found them somewhat informative. Nothing in there to change my own technique but they could be useful for a total newbie.

PS: To quantify my first sentence, great climbers shoot for less than 2 lbs of weight per inch of height. How easy is it going to be to drop more than 70 pounds to get to that level? Same here. :twitchy:

Whoa...I will N-E-V-E-R see that kind of weight. That would put me at 146 pounds, 40 less than when I was a skinny high school kid. Last time I was that gaunt/emaciated I was morbidly depressed and not eating due to a pending divorce.

Guess I'll never be a "great" climber 'cause that kind of weight ratio is scary unhealthy.

"Last time I was that gaunt/emaciated I was morbidly depressed and not eating due to a pending divorce."

Just wondering, how was your climbing during that time?:D

"Last time I was that gaunt/emaciated I was morbidly depressed and not eating due to a pending divorce."

Just wondering, how was your climbing during that time?:D

Cyclists are a strange lot.

I have a friend who was diagnosed with a brain tumor a few years ago and underwent chemotherapy. He dropped a bunch of weight and was ecstatic that he was a better climber.

Perhaps the key to improved climbing is a round or two of chemo????

Cyclists are a strange lot.

I have a friend who was diagnosed with a brain tumor a few years ago and underwent chemotherapy. He dropped a bunch of weight and was ecstatic that he was a better climber.

Perhaps the key to improved climbing is a round or two of chemo????

Was your friend's name "Lance"? :)

Since I started consistent and regular riding 3 years ago, I have lost 40 pounds. Hills that were a real struggle then are now just part of the ride.

For instance. My first attempt at a 10% 2 mile hill was stop on the side road, regroup and then barely make it the rest of the way. Now, it's up the hill, that wasn't so bad, down and up again. Working hard the second time but still moving up. The other thing I've noticed is how much faster I recover after a climb. I attribute this being regular and consistent with riding and not letting last years work slip away over the winter.

Guess I'll never be a "great" climber 'cause that kind of weight ratio is scary unhealthy.

I think it depends a lot on your build. People with anything but a small build are going to have a really tough time getting to the desired climbing number. Even then, it's really, really, really thin.

... Brad

Unless you want to be a professional--Weight is not a problem anywhere on a bike. Even on that weight ratio to height I am 9" too short but I am still going to climb hills. And I haven't seen many 8 ft tall riders in front of me on the climbs recently.

I think the OP just wants to improve his climbiing ability up to a reasonable level. To me that just means getting out and practicing. First time you do a 15% hill it hurts. Couple of years later -even if you do it on a regular basis- it will still hurt. Only thing is it will take less time to climb.

I just saw tonight's group workout. "Z5 short steep hills @ intense effort". This doesn't look to be a plesant evening of riding.:cry:

Unless you want to be a professional--Weight is not a problem anywhere on a bike.

Unless you'd like to beat your riding buddy up the next hill. :)

... Brad

"Last time I was that gaunt/emaciated I was morbidly depressed and not eating due to a pending divorce."

Just wondering, how was your climbing during that time?:D

Hard to say since that was thirty years ago and I wasn't riding. I imagine that I would have been ok doing brevets though, since I was carb-loading - all my calories came from beer;)

Not to sound like a smart@$$, but riding short steep hills improves your ability to climb short steep hills; riding longer less-steep hills improves your ability to climb longer less steep hills. Both will help your climbing ability in general. Ride whatever hills you have access to, ride 'em hard, ride 'em often, but allow enough recovery time in between workouts. Your body will adapt to whatever demands you place on it.

SP

So how do you improve climbing ability to climb a once a year event up a mountain? Climbing any hill will improve your climbing ability but what do you call a hill? I have 8 to 15%ers in my area for around 1 mile length. Can't say I sail up them but the one that gets me everytime is the 5% for 2 miles.

If you want to climb hills- you practice climbing hills. No Hills then interval training up the last 200 yards of the slopes. Only have short hills like me then do repeats up the steepest one in the area. And if you have done a mountain once- then train and train again till you can go back and do the 3 different routes to the top- On the same day. Thats my next challenge but not this year I am afraid.

Unless you want to be a professional--Weight is not a problem anywhere on a bike. Even on that weight ratio to height I am 9" too short but I am still going to climb hills. And I haven't seen many 8 ft tall riders in front of me on the climbs recently.

I think the OP just wants to improve his climbiing ability up to a reasonable level. To me that just means getting out and practicing. First time you do a 15% hill it hurts. Couple of years later -even if you do it on a regular basis- it will still hurt. Only thing is it will take less time to climb.

Stap has it right. I would like to do some riding on the Blueridge Parkway. To do that I need to be a better climber. I don't have a riding buddy so I don't need to beat him up a hill. I just want to be a better rider and to me that means being a better climber. Anybody can ride the flat stuff. From what I read on here what separates riders is HILLS.

You can be a good climber at your size/weight where a good climber is someone who can take thier local hill challenges and not stop for a rest or walk. Just keep at it and you will get stronger and faster but it is painful.

In the same vein:

What improves your climbing more, short very steep hills, or longer not-so-steep hills? The maximum climb in my neck of the woods is 300', so usually you have to do one or the other.

+1 agree with toddorado as well. I am 6'5" 220 (and going up). and I climb better now then when I was 175. actually I climb WAY better. what kills me now is the long rides.

gotta find a balance between getting good distace and climbing ability. too heavy=good climbing, poor endurance. too light=poor climbing, good endurance. of course I assume its mostly lean bodyweight, cause if its just fat then ALL its gonna do is slow you down.

Well theres an exeption. you can be really skinny and load up on methampetamines and booze and you'll climb like a pro! :twitchy:

I mentioned this in the Clyde Forum, but ... the answer is NO.

I am 5'10" - 245 lbs. and an excellent climber ... I'm slow, but I can climb any hill, and can climb hills all day (have done many hilly centuries). I've been riding for over 30 years, and I've never gotten off to walk up any hill.

I use a granny gear (to save my knees), I put my head down and ride.

Seek them out ... the steeper the better. Over and over again!:thumb:

There are 2 answers: First, do YOU want to become a better climber within yourself? Then it is possible to improve your climbing ability and endurance for you. Next, do you want to be competitive and go for speed to show off to other riders that you are a Great Climber?
In the second case probably you are too big and getting dropped in the hills will frustrate and anger you. However, if you want to become a better climber to improve your skills and enjoy riding you aren't too big.
I have always had a linebackers body 5' 10" and 200lbs (down from 230lbs). When I raced back in the 1950s and 1960s I would struggle to keep the peleton in sight. If I got over the top of the Mt then I would be able to pass a lot of the thin spindley ones and definitely do well in the sprints. But I always suffered.
Over the years I have become a better Mt rider mentally. Today at 65 I use a triple and a 13/29 cassette. I can get over anything at my own pace. I do Mt Evans (14K and 28 miles up), Trail Ridge Road (12K 19 miles up), and Fall River Rd (12K 10 miles up) annually. I love climbing out of Boulder, CO up to the Peak to Peak Hwy and do one of the numerous loops. I ride at a pace that is hard but enjoyable for me and never worry about getting passed or passing others. Now it is just the love of the road and the bike. I have to say that I have improved greatly when I lost 30 lbs last year.
Figure out what you mean by being good at climbing and set your sights realistically. Experiment with your position and gear a lot until you find that you are comfortable climbing. When you feel you are great then go on the Ride the Rockies or Bicycle Tour of Colorado to test your capability. And above ALL ELSE enjoy your self.