Singlespeed & Fixed Gear - surly?

What do you guys think of Surly frames? I'm poss. gonna buy one.. thx

Nice frames, pretty good company... never had any problems with their frames.

Been hit twice on my Steamroller...never had to have it re-aligned (maybe I am just lucky though)

What do you guys think of Surly frames? I'm poss. gonna buy one.. thxI own a 1x1 and a fixed Crosscheck. Great bikes for the money. If they fit you, you can't go wrong.

i sold my steamroller in favor of something a little more track specific, but while i had it i loved it. so much i've just about convinced my boss that we need to order a few for the shop i work at.

I also looked at them. I like their style.

When I brought them up with a few different dealers they VERY STRONGLY recommened a Soma instead (somafab.com). For the extra $50, you get better tubing (Reynolds 631 in the front triangle). According to one local Surly/Soma dealer, the Surlys are basically plumbers pipes. I made the leap to Soma and as soon as I get mine, I'll be happy to let you know how it rides, etc.

i'd have to agree with the viking... the soma also has nicer geometry (IMO) than the surly... too bad they don't make 'em small enough to fit me...

According to one local Surly/Soma dealer, the Surlys are basically plumbers pipes.

I think that's just dealer hyperbole. Either that of your dealer is ********. The Steamroller is double-butted cro-mo. Certainly not 853 or even 631, but it's not straight-guage plumbers pipes.

Regardless, I love my Soma Rush. I know several guys who love their Steamrollers. *shrug*

According to one local Surly/Soma dealer, the Surlys are basically plumbers pipes. I wouldn't be buying anything from this dealer since he either doesn't know what he is talking about or he lied to upsell you (not much of an upsell either). Surly frames are made from 4130 Cro-Moly, double butted tubes on the front triangle. My first fixed was a lugged gas-pipe frame and they are vastly different creatures.

It wasn't one dealer, it was two or three. Their response was quite visceral, not some strategy to ploy me.

Which dealers were these skitbraviking? Just curious where people go in Chicago for the bikes.

The two that I remember for sure were: Upgrade and that one on the south side, loop area. Don't remember it's name. Sorry. But they are probably listed on the site as a deal in the 312 area code.

It wasn't one dealer, it was two or three. Their response was quite visceral, not some strategy to ploy me.

well, then you were lied to by two or three dealers instead of just one. *shrug* if you don't believe me, go check out surly's site and read the specs on the bikes.

well, then you were lied to by two or three dealers instead of just one. *shrug* if you don't believe me, go check out surly's site and read the specs on the bikes.

then they lied... *shrug*

fixed cross check here.....fine jus fine..

I love Surly bikes. But I think they may have lost a little street cred when the Steamroller showed up in this month's Bicycling magazine.

On second thought....maybe I should be posting this in the riveting poseur discussion going on next door... ;)

hehe.

i may be reiterating what was said earlier, but...meh.

the steamroller is made of 4130 cromoly. while this isn't as light as say, reynolds 631, or 853, or columbus whatever the hell, it is pretty damn sturdy. 4130 is what most quality BMX bikes are made from, and yes, they may be heavy, but they last a long time, and lots of people swear by them. 4130 is definitely NOT plumbing.

OneTin, i'm not sure i know much about metallurgy or whatev, but isn't reynolds 631, 853 etc still 4130 chromoly? i'm almost sure it's the same stuff, differently treated to allow for slightly lighter tubing with sturdier welds. companies like reynolds/columbus just hold the patents for their particular steel specs. steel is steel. mass produced name brand tubing isn't always all it's cracked up to be.

on the soma tip, "my bike shop buddy says" soma frames are fabbed in the same factory in indonesia/taiwain/oompa loompa land that does bianchi's pistas - surly's are fabbed in the u.s.... of course that might mean nothing at all about quality. can anyone else verify this?


hehe.

i may be reiterating what was said earlier, but...meh.

the steamroller is made of 4130 cromoly. while this isn't as light as say, reynolds 631, or 853, or columbus whatever the hell, it is pretty damn sturdy. 4130 is what most quality BMX bikes are made from, and yes, they may be heavy, but they last a long time, and lots of people swear by them. 4130 is definitely NOT plumbing.

reynolds has their own proprietary blend of steel, i think. and the numbers refer to the maximum temps that they can handle during welding. and since higher temps mean faster welding, thinner tubes and stronger joints are the end result. 4130 is a lot more flexy than reynolds of the same thickness. which is why a lot of BMX bikes that are made from it are so heavy, thicker tubing...also bmx bikes tend to take a beating.

i thought surly's were also made overseas...

on the soma tip, "my bike shop buddy says" soma frames are fabbed in the same factory in indonesia/taiwain/oompa loompa land that does bianchi's pistas - surly's are fabbed in the u.s.... of course that might mean nothing at all about quality. can anyone else verify this?

according to bikeworks nyc and velo city (the first two google responses to "surly bikes taiwan" :rolleyes: ) surly bikes are made in taiwan.

http://www.bikecult.com/works/bikesframes.html
http://www.velo-citycycles.com/sales_bikes.htm

surly's are fabbed in the u.s.... Surly's are definitely NOT fabbed in the US.

OneTin, i'm not sure i know much about metallurgy or whatev, but isn't reynolds 631, 853 etc still 4130 chromoly? i'm almost sure it's the same stuff, differently treated to allow for slightly lighter tubing with sturdier welds.

Hi Folks...

Last summer I decided to bite the bullet and order a frame a from local builder (Rodriguez). Before I spent that kind of money I did as much research as I could regarding bicycle materials.

All of the alloys mentioned above are steel but not all are 4130 chrome-moly. I believe there is no molybdenum in either 853 or 631. Even though all steel tubing is 95% iron and a few percent nickle, the differences lie in that last percent or two of alloying ingredients.

Neither alloying nor heat treating affect the density or stiffness (of the metal not the ride). The differences lie in the elongation and tensile strength of the metal. This allows tubing to be made thinner and still maintain (ride) stiffness and resistance to bending/breaking. So no steel frame is lighter than another because it's made from a lighter steel, it's lighter because it's made from a stronger (hence thinner walled) steel.

Diameter of the tubing allows for the use of thinner walled tubing as well and can greatly affect the frame's stiffness (but not the metal's of course).

Another difference results from the heat treatment. The process usually involves multiple heating/cooling cycles. Alloys that are 'air-hardened' are shipped without performing the final cycle. The final treatment occurs during frame fabrication (welding). So the joint is actually stronger after it's welded. Other alloys actually lose some strength after they are welded. Some can only be brazed.

The more exotic alloys were created to solve a problem that occurs when metals are mixed. Within the material, the component elements tend to form long chains like grain in wood. This can make the alloy's strength non uniform and somewhat directional also like wood. The tiny amounts of additional elements in the mix form small crystalline structures that interrupt the growth of these chains and makes the 'grain' more random like compressed chipboard does for wood.

For what it's worth, I chose Tru-Temper Ox Platinum for my frame. But my other rides are a 4130 Surly Pacer (replaced dropouts with horizontal ones) and a 4130 Surly Steamroller. I love both of those too.

Thanks...

Jim

Hi Folks... So no steel frame is lighter than another because it's made from a lighter steel, it's lighter because it's made from a stronger (hence thinner walled) steel.
Jim

Thinner does not always = stronger.

Thinner does not always = stronger.
the thinner walled steel is stronger at the same thickness as the non-alloy steel, therefore can be used at a smaller thickness at the same strength (and therefore lighter)

I think jimv was saying that a stronger steel allows for thinner walls, not that thin walls are stronger.

thanks for the heads up, i had a feeling i was probably off the mark.

i would have researched it myself, but, you know, googling can be, like, such a hassle...


according to bikeworks nyc and velo city (the first two google responses to "surly bikes taiwan" :rolleyes: ) surly bikes are made in taiwan.

http://www.bikecult.com/works/bikesframes.html
http://www.velo-citycycles.com/sales_bikes.htm

I own a 1x1 and a Crosscheck, and I'll add this to the conversation. Surly's aren't the bikes you buy if you want a top of the line steel frame. They're built with decent craftmanship (but not great) and made with decent materials (but not great). Surly frames are designed in the US and manufactured in Taiwan. This is why a Surly frame only costs ~$400. Their frames are probably worth no more and no less than what they charge.

Also, keep in mind that most of the appeal of a Surly is the result of the company's excellent marketing strategy. When you buy one, you sort of buy into a club of Surly owners. But, I don't think this takes away from the fact that it's a decent frame.

I say, buy the 1x1 and don't look back.

what do you mean "you sort of buy into a club of Surly owners". please explain i don't think I understand that.

what do you mean "you sort of buy into a club of Surly owners". please explain i don't think I understand that.


What I guess I should have said is that the company has created a certain image that is associated with it's riders. You buy into an image. Just like buying designer clothes, or a certain type of car. Only a few bicycle companies have managed to create that sort of image, and most of them are high end frame builders such as Mootz, Seven, IF, Serrata, and the like.

More elitist/separatist propaganda!
The first rule about Surly club...

You don't EVER mention Surly club.



But yea, come on, it is an image, one which I like. But it is an image,

my dealer tried to get me to go after a soma over a surly. i wonder how the double cross compares to the cross check. and why did surly stop using reynolds?

whatever happened to "ride and decide"?

The lightest , most expensive frame is not always the best for you and the cycling you do. Surly appear to have grasped this basic fact- and good luck to them.

thanks for the heads up, i had a feeling i was probably off the mark.

i would have researched it myself, but, you know, googling can be, like, such a hassle...

When things get "Squirly",
People get Surly

fixedgearhead

Hi Folks...

Last summer I decided to bite the bullet and order a frame a from local builder (Rodriguez). Before I spent that kind of money I did as much research as I could regarding bicycle materials.

All of the alloys mentioned above are steel but not all are 4130 chrome-moly. I believe there is no molybdenum in either 853 or 631. Even though all steel tubing is 95% iron and a few percent nickle, the differences lie in that last percent or two of alloying ingredients.

Neither alloying nor heat treating affect the density or stiffness (of the metal not the ride). The differences lie in the elongation and tensile strength of the metal. This allows tubing to be made thinner and still maintain (ride) stiffness and resistance to bending/breaking. So no steel frame is lighter than another because it's made from a lighter steel, it's lighter because it's made from a stronger (hence thinner walled) steel.

Diameter of the tubing allows for the use of thinner walled tubing as well and can greatly affect the frame's stiffness (but not the metal's of course).

Another difference results from the heat treatment. The process usually involves multiple heating/cooling cycles. Alloys that are 'air-hardened' are shipped without performing the final cycle. The final treatment occurs during frame fabrication (welding). So the joint is actually stronger after it's welded. Other alloys actually lose some strength after they are welded. Some can only be brazed.

The more exotic alloys were created to solve a problem that occurs when metals are mixed. Within the material, the component elements tend to form long chains like grain in wood. This can make the alloy's strength non uniform and somewhat directional also like wood. The tiny amounts of additional elements in the mix form small crystalline structures that interrupt the growth of these chains and makes the 'grain' more random like compressed chipboard does for wood.

For what it's worth, I chose Tru-Temper Ox Platinum for my frame. But my other rides are a 4130 Surly Pacer (replaced dropouts with horizontal ones) and a 4130 Surly Steamroller. I love both of those too.

Thanks...

Jim

I was surprised to find that the high end tubes (from most any tube supplier) have strength that approach that of tool steel. I suspect some of these tubing have higher carbon content like tool steel. Carbon increases strenght and lends itself for heat treating, but at the same time the tubes become more susceptable to rusting.

Surlys are the marketing brainchild of some of the boffins at QBP - a big wholesaler. They're made in Taiwan outta amazingly heavy garden variety 4130. Front end maybe butted but really, who cares? They're not going to be winning any awards for anything other than profitability anytime soon. Bottom line - they're pretty good value, all things considered. I'm not sure how they compare to Somas or anything else at that level coz it's not my thing, but the Surlys are okay I guess. Geometry is pretty good.

Would I buy one? Of course not.

I wouldn't buy one if I were you. I hate all three of my Surlys! They're heavy, handle like a Radio wagon, don't cost much and if you get hit by a car you'll probably have to get the guy a new fender! Not only that you'd have to listen to everyone bag on em. Get the soma and don't look back. Oh yeah, if you want to see my Steamer look on the sticky of pix.

I wouldn't buy one if I were you. I hate all three of my Surlys! They're heavy, handle like a Radio wagon, don't cost much and if you get hit by a car you'll probably have to get the guy a new fender! Not only that you'd have to listen to everyone bag on em. Get the soma and don't look back. Oh yeah, if you want to see my Steamer look on the sticky of pix.

Well I really like my Steamroller. Weightwise there's only 8oz difference between the two so total weight will be dominated by the components. If there isn't a big weight penalty then I think solid is great feature. I'm not sure what you mean by: "....handle like a Radio wagon...." or "....you'd have to listen to everyone bag on em". But most undesireable for some riders (including me) is the very aggressive geometry of the Rush. I would hate riding 50 miles on that setup. But I still think it's a nice bike, I just think the two are basically in the same league as cheap imported fixies.

If a person really likes track geometry or considering getting into track racing then definitely get the Soma. Otherwise get the Surly.

Jim

Sorry guys, I was just trying to be funny. Kinda lame I suppose. For what it's worth I love all three of my Surlys. There's certainly better bikes and there's worse bikes. For my money they're a great value. I went from a 500 dollar Fuji to a 1000 dollar Surly. The Surly fits my riding style better. I don't know if there's a nickel difference in the frames other than the Surly is a little slacker and has more tire clearance. I like the fork better also. My Surly also has better components than my off the rack Fuji and reflects that in the overall ride.

Sorry guys, I was just trying to be funny. Kinda lame I suppose. For what it's worth I love all three of my Surlys. There's certainly better bikes and there's worse bikes. For my money they're a great value. I went from a 500 dollar Fuji to a 1000 dollar Surly. The Surly fits my riding style better. I don't know if there's a nickel difference in the frames other than the Surly is a little slacker and has more tire clearance. I like the fork better also. My Surly also has better components than my off the rack Fuji and reflects that in the overall ride.

Ooops.. Actually I'm the one who should be apologizing. Now that I reread your post I can see how you were just being funny. I was sitting there thinking 'jeez if this guy hates them so much why does he keep buying them?'

You got me ;-)

Jim

Ooops.. Actually I'm the one who should be apologizing. Now that I reread your post I can see how you were just being funny. I was sitting there thinking 'jeez if this guy hates them so much why does he keep buying them?'

You got me ;-)

Jim

Naw, it's my oops. I just keep forgetting the typed word doesn't always come out on the paper like it's playing in your head. On an earlier post about the same subject I raved about my Surlys. In my mind I thought I'd just throw a little back spin in the mix. I don't think I'll do that anymore.

One more thought on the subject of picking bikes. It's been my experience that I want to start out cheap to see if I'm really going to like something and then keep progressing upwards until I reach a saturation point. I've gone up the bike scale and down. I'd say I'm somewhere in the middle now and I like it here. You can tell by a persons set up if he/she knows whats going on. It's just like sitting on the starting line of a race. You look around for certain cues. You may or may not be able to judge someone's ability by looking at their setup, but you can sure tell who's been around awhile.

If I buy another fixie I'll damn sure give Thylacine a call. Judging from his responses he's been around the block a time or two and I'm pretty sure he knows what it's all about.

Oh, one more thing. I just got back from a ride on the Steamer. I love that bike! I'm done now.