Red LED Tailight Phenomenon

[Portis]

I have one of those red LED tailights that you can make flash or burn steady. I used to turn it on in the daylight just as a precaution. Over the course of time I finally quit turning it on, figuring it was sort of dumb to be running it in the daytime.

It seemed like more and more people were giving me less room when passing me on the roadway. Some people would get clear over but most would just move a little if any at all. So a week or so ago I had the thought to start turning it on again.

I am amazed at the results. I have had it on the last 5 or so rides. (always ride the same route) Without exception so far people have been giving me tons of space. Most get clear over in the turning lane to avoid me. This makes me wonder what it is about the human mind that views a little red blinking light as something to be avoided but a fellow human on a bike as nothing but a nuisance.

In other words, why do they give me room only when I have the light blinking? I suspect it has something to do with the way we are conditioned when we learn to drive. Even subconsciously the little blinking light must tell the driver that there is something there to avoid. It certainly is interesting. Anyone else ever notice this? I obviously will be running this light from now on when on the roadway.

[LittleBigMan]

I have one of those red LED tailights... I am amazed at the results.

Without exception so far people have been giving me tons of space.
Whatever the phenomenon is, it sounds like you have a good reason to keep using that blinkie.

[roadfix]

Hmmm.... I think I'll wear one on me in the malls when I go shopping during the holidays...

[late]

Prob conditioned repsonse, aka habit

[cyclezealot]

I was going down the coastal highway last night. Passed by a cyclist. I have a vest with illuminated strips and a flashing lighted strip. But this person looked like he/she had flashing lights about the ankles, similiar to a blinkie. It certainly did not look like just a reflective ankle strap.
This person was really illuminated to the max...
Question..I wear a couple illuminated ankle straps..Just how much stuff is there out there in terms of lights , reflective gear, etc.....
This person I passed by had more stuff, Than I have ever seen in the bike shops. ANyone seen any outlets for really advanced night riding gear.This person had like a strong lamp on the handlebars and another light off of his/her helmet..
I can't feel that you can have tooo much stuff to keep your seen at night.
Wish I could have run into this person at a stop light to see exactly what night gear they were adorned with..

[IowaParamedic]

Wish I could have run into this person at a stop light to see exactly what night gear they were adorned with..

That would have hurt. Maybe you could just pull up near them and chat. :)

[Merriwether]

Thanks for the account of your experiment, Ranger.

I've noticed something very much like the phenomenon you describe, but at night. If I have just a tail light, I am passed safely. If I have a tail light, a vest, ankle bands, and *another* blinkie on the back of my head, drivers will go *far* around me. Why, I wonder? They see me, and must know I'm a cyclist in either case. Why so much more careful in the one case and not the other?

One possibility is that all that lighting and reflective material sends a dramatic warning to which drivers unconsciously react with greater caution. At least, that's what I guess is going on.

What you describe seems like a variation on this theme. Obviously, drivers can see you in the day with or without the blinkie. But the fact that you go out of your way to communicate a warning in addition makes them even more cautious.

I think I'll try the blinkie in the daytime myself, and see what happens.

[nualle]

I've also noticed that when I've got my whole light set on at night, I get better passing-distance respect from drivers than I do during the day, when they're off. I ride a recumbent (EZ-1) and have three taillights—two on the corners of the seat back and one down on the fender. I think the unfamiliar-but-not-random configuration confuses drivers just enough that, not knowing what I am, they give me a wider berth.

I also have a reflective slow-moving-vehicle triangle attached to the storage box on my rear rack, which may warn them that I'm closer than they may think. I'm wondering if the single blinkie doesn't work well because, for many, apparent size of light correlates to distance, so drivers pass bicyclists long before they expect to (since they don't think in terms of bicyclists... a single taillight = a motorcyclist).

The NiMH-run headlight on my helmet has also worked wonders for response from drivers approaching from the sides. I think the intensity of light may trigger some response (which may be what's behind the fog-lights-in-clear-weather arms race I've been observing).

[Da Tinker]

I think nualle may have hit on it. Drivers see multiple lights, and think 'what the heck is that?", and give it a wide berth. I have noted that more lights = more room at night.

Helmet mounted lights are great for flashing into windows, which really gets drivers out of their fog.

Lately, I have been using a 3" (~ 8 cm) amber reflector mounted in back. It shows up strongly when hit with lights and seems very effective. No batteries, either.

Ranger, thanks for sharing your results. I had wondered about some of my riding buds who always had their blinkie lights going. Well, no more.

[late]

Hi,
my Sis got an Illuminite jacket recently. The thing works great. She lights up like a roman candle.

[John E]

30 year ago, when I lived in west Los Angeles and frequently commuted at night, I had a generator-driven headlight/taillight set, French strap-on lights on the left (traffic side) arm and ankle, standard rear reflectors, and lots of reflective tape. I always wore white or bright yellow or orange, and people commented that I was more visible at night than during the day. Today's battery and light bulb technologies are vastly superior; no one had anything like a "blowtorch" back then! However, I wish I could still find those French strap-on arm/leg lights, as I think they are an effective supplement to any lighting system.

[cyclezealot]

This French strap on lights, I suspect I saw one the other night.Never heard of them before...About the legs/arms? They are flashing light systems.?
I have an illuminite jacket..It does not breath, was my experience. warm and clammy, I only wore it once.But, Not that warm either.Felt like it was raining on the inside.Maybe I should try it again.
One problem with night riding, can't get over- no matter how illuminated I am . Here in So. Cal. I expect non clammy conditions, warm,sun-perfect weather.Not hot,not cold.Dry.
Here in winter at night it can be cool and clammy.No amount of clothing makes it feel like warm, sunny conditions. Moved to the land of 30 million souls expecting perfection in the skies.Still once in awhile I get out..Now, summer here at night is perfection..

[Portis]

More Blinkie Info:

Have ridden a few times since the original post so I will update. The more I ride the less impressed I am with my blinkie. I still think that it makes a difference and that more cars give me more clearance. However you still have the occasional idiots.

A rule which I am sure all veterans on here know about is that if two cars are meeting in your proximity, than all bets are off. One thing you can count on for sure........ain't nobody going to touch a brake pedal. That never happens. I alwasy get far less clearance when two vehicle meet perpendicular to me.

This might be a more interesting phenomenon than the blinkie. I suppose we have to look inside the minds of the motorists at the time.

Motorist thoughts
"Hmmmmmmm. looks like there is a cyclist up there maybe i ought to get over to the left a little bit to pass him safely. Oh crap, there is another car coming, I don't think I have sufficient room. Oh well I guess I will just hold my line and hope for the best."


You notice that the thought to slow down never occured to them. Strange. Very Strange.

[cyclezealot]

Motorists put themselves in unsafe situations every minute due to their impatience...Think they are going to worry about a possible manslaughter wrap.

[MMPC]

Very interesting thread. I have a Cateye Opticube on the front of my bike (typically I set it on flash mode), a red blinkie on the back. With the added clearance I've noticed from motorists, I'd never ride at dusk/night again without them; they do work. Haven't tried them during the day, but thankfully I also haven't had many problems either.

As for the whole motorist response theory, I think it's the same reason law enforcement, public service, etc. vehicles spend small fortunes on all variety of strobes, LED flashers, etc. The more visible you are, the more you look like you have a serious purpose, the more likely motorists are to pay attention and - perhaps - slow down a bit.

Ranger, I think the motorist thought might be something more like this: "Hmmm, another car is approaching me on my left and there's a cyclist on my right. Well, if the other car hits me, it'll really mess up my Lexus/Mercedes/BMW SUV; if I hit the cyclist, there's less chance of damage..." ;)

[Merriwether]

More Blinkie Info:

One thing you can count on for sure........ain't nobody going to touch a brake pedal. That never happens.

That's for sure. Damn. But why wait four seconds for oncoming traffic to get by, when it looks like there's probably a good three millimeters between the mirror and the guy on the bike?

[Avalanche325]

Hmmm.... I think I'll wear one on me in the malls when I go shopping during the holidays...

Don't do it at Xmart. They will think you are on special and rip your clothes off. :p

[greywolf]

I turn on my flashing LEDs back & front in the daylight if I feel threatened by heavy or fast moving traffic, I usualy wear one of those waist type bags to carry my personal stuff in , keys, wallet ect. I have a cheap red 3 LED cliped on to the belt & turn it on at night as well. My other safty thingy is two 1/2"x7" peices of reflective ribbon tied to the back of my helmet ,the wind.twists & blows them around & it shows up well in the headlights of a vech.approaching from the rear .

[rustypelican]

If you cannot find the night ride gear that you are looking for, try a running speciallty store. They have all kinds of cool toys for runnig at night. I learned this when our fitness coordinator at work started us runnig at :mad: O'dark thirty (0430) in the mornings and I just did not feal safe even though we were in a group.

[CycleNaut]

Regarding the phenomenon of being in the road where/when two cars pass, I have started taking the proactive measure of taking the lane when I see that coming. I'll wave my left arm with my hand facing back to let the car approaching from behind know that they must slow down. It works. When it is safe for them to pass, I pull to the right and wave them by. Many motorists will do the right thing if instructed properly.

Scott

[slider]

A motorcycle rider on another board theorized that horizontally aligned lights and reflective gear are much more visible than those which are vertically aligned. People think of vehicles as wide and horizontal and look for that pattern. Thin vertical patterns can get lost in the background "noise" of streetlights and other cars.

-s

[Bryan T]

I use one of those random pattern strobes.
I think it says "beware, I'm serious and demand respect."

I think some drivers say, "Whazzat?"

[RainmanP]

Ranger,
You probably just had a run of good luck. I find that I might go a week with everyone seeming courteous and giving me plenty of space. Then one day in the space of 5 minutes three people will seem to try to dust me off the road, often 2 one right behind the other, in light traffic on a four lane road. After the second one in a row like that I get testy and move to the middle of the lane for a while. Idiots seem to run in packs.

Rusty, the only problem with some of the running stuff is that it really doesn't seem very visible. I am usually very close to runners/walkers before I can see the little flashers they seem to use around here. Those that have reflective material show up much better.

At my LBS yesterday my buddy showed me something neat. It is a platform pedal that has 3 apparently piezo electric crystal activated LEDs in the reflector that blink as the pedal turns. Not impressively bright, but probably a little useful, and no batteries. For those not familiar with the term, piezo electric generates a tiny spark of electricity by pressure rather than by the usual rotating magnet/coil setup. Many butane lighters now use a piezo electric crystal for ignition instead of a flint.

[streetdog]

I use a tail light all the time and you are right it does make a difference. I recently bought a Cateye Opticube EL-400 as a spare headlight incase my halogen headlight runs down. It is very bright, burns log and has a strobe mode. One evening I used it in the flashing mode in addition to my regular headlight and I noticed a real difference in how people drove around me. Fewer drivers turned left infront of me, drivers I was overtaking gave me more room to pass and generally had more space. I use it all the time now. Cheap insurance at $30.
[IMG]

[ollo_ollo]

I wear a reflective vest, reflective ankle straps & use a lumotec light driven by a dynohub generator plus a zefal yellow blinkie on my bar & red blinkie mounted on my rack. The other commuters I work with do the same plus headlamps & we see the same response you do. I run the blinkies only during the day when I commute home & back at lunch but early in the AM there have been a few people who pull over from the center lane to the outside lane & pass by me then move back to the center. Just trying to get a good look I guess?? Don

[el Inglés]

Been using them for years , in the sun any shade is like entering a black hole ; anything helps that keeps you seen .
ie don´t ride in earth colours , the brighter the better , orange ,red , yellow , pink , lime , but all in eye bleeding shades : not cool but safer .

[MarkD]

LED's or Blinkie's as you guys call them are illegal in Britain as they dont confirm to British Standard ruling on the grounds that they dont contain a reflector and they are not visible from the side. Having said that almost everyone runs them and everyone recognises that it is a cyclist from a great distance. Even the authorities turn a blind eye to them now as it is better to be seen than dead!

[Da Tinker]

MarkD, some blinkies are reflectors, like the Cateye Reflex. Plus, you can always just add a reflector.
http://www.nashbar.com/profile.cfm?category=&subcategory=&brand=0307&sku=1511&storetype=&estoreid=

[MarkD]

Thanks for the link Da Tinker. I see what you mean. And the prices in that link cheered me up no end too, I worked out that we pay nearly double for stuff here in the U.K. :cry:

[bianchi_rider]

I have a road bike, and I have the red bloinkie in the ends of my handlebars, I still use them in the daylight as I refuse to ride at night unless its an organized ride... Nothing wrong with the blinkie at all, in fact its a wise decision..
ride safe :D

[Wayneburg]

I'm new to these forums, but I have been following lighting related devices for a few years now. From what I've learned the color green is the easiest color for the human eye to detect. Probably because vegetation is that color. Guess what color is on the exact opposite of the color spectrum? Red. The color that is being used for your safety lighting. One interesting thing about red light... it is used for reading maps at night so it is easier to preserve night vision. Why? Because there are less cones (or is it rods?) in the eye that detect the color red. This means there are less cones being disturbed. This also means the color red is least likely to be detected by the human eye. Not a good thing for someone who wants to be detected.

Now back to the color green. Unfortuately, green means 'go' to car drivers. Which means it's not a good choice in colors for night safety lighting.

A good alternative may be the color yellow. Yellow is one of the base colors for green (yellow + blue = green) and yellow is the color drivers know as 'caution.'

I'd also like to bring up the actual size of the light. I can only speak for myself, but when I'm driving I determine the size and distance of a vehicle or object by the size of its light(s). Bigger light(s) means I am closer to it.


*******
edit: The actual amount and size of the LED bulb itself doesn't have to be larger, just the diffuser or lens apparatus. end edit
*******


Someone mentioned that vertical positioned lights in a sea of horizonally positioned lights stand out. I agree and I would like to add to that. Again I can only speak for myself, but when I'm driving, I determine the distance and size of a vehicle or object by the distance between two or more lights on that vehicle or object. The farther apart its lights are the closer I am to it.

I haven't even gotten myself a bike yet, but lighting is a topic I enjoy so I'm already thinking of what to mount on my bike. I think I will go with 2 rear-facing LED's with larger than normal diffusers that strobe in random patterns (is that an oximoron? random pattern). One yellow in color and the other in white. The difference between colors will stand out.

[Al.canoe]

I use one of those random pattern strobes.
I think it says "beware, I'm serious and demand respect."


That's why flashing lights work. Your asserting your presence and right to be there and you're projecting that you know what you are doing. It's the same when you're driving a car. If you're hesitant in taking your legal right of way, other drivers will take it istead.

We've been using "dawn to dusk" flashing tail/front lights for almost a year now. The difference in driver behavior is dramatic. They need to be bright enough to be visible in bright sunlight. The better LED lights accomplish that with decent battery life.

Al

[Wayneburg]

Energizer is making the world's first AAA lithium battery. Lithium is lighter than nickle or lead based batteries. That's for those of you that count every ounce or gram. :)

[LittleBigMan]

I have one of those red LED tailights that you can make flash or burn steady. I used to turn it on in the daylight just as a precaution.
Now that I have mounted a very large, bright strobe on the back of my bike, I will find out how it works in the daytime.

[RatherBeCycling]

Granted I've only really been into cycling for the past year or so, but before that I still used to use a bike to get around the city. So far I've only had one real incident with a car and it was at night while using a rear LED blinkie light, but honestly I don't think lack of visibility had anything to do with it. More like lack of an understanding of how to drive a car. I haven't really noticed any wider room given to me when using a rear blinkie light, but the closest to daylight I've ever tried using it is probably about 45 minutes until sunset and I think riding in the city you have to deal with too many people in too much of a hurry on streets that are too small, so as long as they don't plow you down you should feel lucky.

[pdx_gay_guy]

somone in this thread mentioned colors of blinkies. I do know that Oregon has state statutes as to what color the front and rear blinkies can be. A friend had a red blinkie on the front of his bike and the cops actually stopped him and gave him a ticket. (white = front, red = rear)

[froze]

I sometimes ride with the rear light on during the day if it's one of those dark dreary days or foggy. I think anything you do to make yourself standout is important when dealing with traffic. Typically when I ride at night I use the Cateye TLLD 600 which I believe is the brightest taillight current on the market. I also use reflective leg bands and a reflective stripped backpack or jacket and the seat bag has a reflective strip. About 2 months ago I added those handlebar end taillights, they plug into the bar, and those things are extremily bright. I one guy came up to me in his car and claimed he could see me from over a mile away-this was at night.

Sober people are weird when it comes to cyclist; during the day some think they have the right away and that the cyclist should be on the sidewalk. At night though I swear it's safer, they give you more room and don't try to cut you off as much. BUT drunk people sometimes have a tendancy to drive their cars at blinking lights. Almost all police cars that have been rearended at night while pulled far off the road to write a ticket were hit by drunks that seemed to have been sucked into the blinking lights like an insect. Fortunately in all my night riding I haven't ran into one of those "insect" drunks!!

[cyclezealot]

Quite awhile ago, I commented on a similiar thread that I had seen some cyclists going down the Coastal road and they were ablaze with lights dangling off their calves, arms, shoes, helmet..He/she had more lights on than I could count.
Inquired of our members, anyone seen a similar lighting arrangement.
The other day, I was in Performance.. Asked clerk...Said he thought they were 'UFO lights." I already have two flashing lights on the back side of my bike..The one mounted to the rack and on my helmet.
Well, these UFO lights, which can be ordered through the Performance Catalog, and they can be tied just about anywhere. The light is attached to a band that stretches. The options of where you can mount these lights are endless.
Had them tied to my left shoe and pack. In total I had 4 lights flashing from my rear..Supposed to be seen from one mile.. Cars sure gave me wide berth.

[froze]

The other day, I was in Performance.. Asked clerk...Said he thought they were 'UFO lights." I already have two flashing lights on the back side of my bike..The one mounted to the rack and on my helmet.
Well, these UFO lights, which can be ordered through the Performance Catalog, and they can be tied just about anywhere. The light is attached to a band that stretches. The options of where you can mount these lights are endless.


I agree Zealot, the more lights on the rear the more attention you will attract and when riding a bike getting attention is important. I just saw those UFO lights for the first time in the performance cat, they seem interesting, maybe next fall I will add one for the helmet. Then I would also have 4 lights-the main taillight, barend lights, and then the UFO plus the reflectors on my legs and seatbag; it they can't see someone lit up like that then they shouldn't be driving!.

[cyclezealot]

[QUOTE=froze]I agree Zealot, the more lights on the rear the more attention you will attract and when riding a bike getting attention is important. I just saw those UFO lights for the first time in the performance cat, they seem interesting,

Tomorrow,I will be in the Performance store again..Had not noticed on display those hadlebar end lights..Think them a good idea. On my touring bike, maybe the panniers obstruct their view.
But anyway..On the front. I have a 10-15 watt bulb option.Count on fact reflective ankle braclets can be easily seen. Maybe a blinking light up front would be a good idea also.

[steve212]

Any opinion on the Cateye LD500 vs LD600 ? According to the specs, the LD600 is supposedly "the brightest", but the LD500 has more red surface area.

Also, any opinion on those red lights that go into the ends of the handlebars ?

[khuon]

Also, any opinion on those red lights that go into the ends of the handlebars ?

I've heard they work pretty well. I almost picked up a pair today when I saw that the local Performance shop had a clearance sale on their knock-off versions (http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile.cfm?SKU=17651&subcategory_ID=4322#). What's funny is that Supergo which is owned by the same company as Performance has the same lights on sale for less (http://www.supergo.com/profile.cfm?LPROD_ID=25215&lsubcat_id=1519&lcat_id=7604&referpage=). If you're running flatbars, then the ones from Knog (http://www.wiggle.co.uk/?Manu=Knog) seem really nice.

[steve212]

I ordered the ones from Nashbar this morning. On sale for $15, then 10% off = $13.50.

The Performance/Viewpoint ones you mentioned look identical to the Nashbar ones. But the Supergo ones don't exactly look the same and they don't say that they can blink.

What I'm looking for is added visibility/safety. If these little doo-dads can provide that for me, then that's fine.

I'll report back to the forum to let you know my opinion of them when I install them next week.

Also, although the Cateye LD600 looks slicker than the LD500 (thin, horizontal line, as opposed to the boring roundish look) I'm leaning towards the Cateye LD500 because it seems to have more red area and is also meets CPSC standards as a reflector. Since I plan on removing the little reflector I currently have on the back, the LD500 might make more sense.

[slvoid]

Energizer is making the world's first AAA lithium battery. Lithium is lighter than nickle or lead based batteries. That's for those of you that count every ounce or gram. :)

I only use AA lithiums for my front blinker cause I like the fact that they maintain their voltage all the way to the end. There's no guesswork as to when to replace the battery and I always carry a spare set.

[Lonestar1]

I use the standard 5 LED "blinkie" on the rear of the bike. Although it's state law to have reflectors front/back on the bike, only "newbies" keep them on. One of the first things that goes away is the huge reflectors that come standard on the front/rear wheels. Unsafe? Probably, as the rider is reducing the ability to be seen. Especially @ dawn/dusk. Still it's a fact. Look @ any "hard core" type cyclists & you'll find some kind of "blinkie" on the rear but no reflectors. Last year I bought a light ( a ZEFAL 635
I think). Basically it's enough light for me to be seen if I get caught out in the dark.
When the time changes back to GOD's time, I usaually ride the last couple of miles in the dark on my weekday rides. The light has a small ( less than 4 watt) lamp but also has 3 yellow LED's that can be changed between steady/flash mode. Like I say it's enough light, that I feel safer anyway. Powered by 4 AA batteries. I use rechargeable ni-cads in both the front light/rear blinkie. I knew there was no way I wanted to spend mucho $$ on something like a NITERIDER set-up. I know they're great lights. But I can buy a ton of AA's for the price of one of those. One other thing that I've found that is really different & I wonder if anyone has ever seen them, is something called "Tireflys". These are small lamps that screw onto your valve stems & blink only when set into motion. Of course you must the adapter for Presta valves. What I like most about them is you have such a random patten of light when the bike is rolling along. Just something else to make myself visilble. I purchased mine @ RADIO SHACK.

[Da Tinker]

[QUOTE=Lonestar1]Although it's state law to have reflectors front/back on the bike, only "newbies" keep them on. One of the first things that goes away is the huge reflectors that come standard on the front/rear wheels. QUOTE]

Hold on there, pardner. The law does not say a thing about front reflectors. That silly front reflector is a requirement dreamed up by the CPSC, a bunch of well-meaning fools who do not ride bikes.

From the Texas Code:
Sec. 551.104. Safety Equipment.

(a) A person may not operate a bicycle unless the bicycle is equipped with a brake capable of making a braked wheel skid on dry, level, clean pavement.

(b) A person may not operate a bicycle at nighttime unless the bicycle is equipped with:

(1) a lamp on the front of the bicycle that emits a white light visible from a distance of at least 500 feet in front of the bicycle; and
(2) on the rear of the bicycle:


(A) a red reflector that is:
(i) of a type approved by the department; and
(ii) visible when directly in front of lawful upper beams of motor vehicle headlamps from all distances from 50 to 300 feet to the rear of the bicycle; or

(B) a lamp that emits a red light visible from a distance of 500 feet to the rear of the bicycle.

A reflector only works when everything aligns within certain parameters, the light source, the reflector, and the viewer's (cage operator) angle. Lights work when the cars lights are not shining on the reflector, like when you are approaching a car from the side. Experienced, educated cyclists (hard-core?) understand this.

Try John Allen's or John Forester's books or webpages.

[BeTheChange]

Motorist thoughts
"Hmmmmmmm. looks like there is a cyclist up there maybe i ought to get over to the left a little bit to pass him safely. Oh crap, there is another car coming, I don't think I have sufficient room. Oh well I guess I will just hold my line and hope for the best."


You notice that the thought to slow down never occured to them. Strange. Very Strange.

I was talking to my friend ricky and he really didn't know what you were supposed to do when you couldn't pass safely. I told him that he should brake and wait because I'm sure a cyclist has never slowed him down more than 20 seconds. He told me I was right and learned from the experience. If only there was a test that everyone had to take to drive that could teach this. And hell, they could even hand out permits for people who passed this test and showed on the road and in a written test that they understood all of this. What a concept.

[plain.jim]

In other words, why do they give me room only when I have the light blinking? I suspect it has something to do with the way we are conditioned when we learn to drive. Even subconsciously the little blinking light must tell the driver that there is something there to avoid. It certainly is interesting.

I think it has to do with people looking for what they expect to see. Drivers are looking for blinking lights; they're NOT always looking for bicycles. Among motorcyclists, we make reference to this article, originally printed in the American Motorcycle Ass'n magazine (http://home.cogeco.ca/~rjanisse2/chapter_mip/gorillas.html). If you check out the article, you'll see that people were really good at picking out what they were told to expect (in the case of the article, ball passes), but no good at seeing the unexpected (in one case, "...a gorilla stops in the middle of the scene, thumps its chest, and walks off.")

They call it "inattentional blindness". I say, "Ride as if you're invisible... because to some of 'em, you are."

To others, you're not just bicyclists, you're targets. But that's a story for a different thread.

[catatonic]

Rear and side reflectors are legally required, though many of us ditch those rather quick. I know I did. BUT, I do use plenty of lighting front and back (cateye led 600, and a niterider trailrat 2.0 w cateye el110 backup light). Given I do need side lighting, and I plan on getting some reflective wall tires for that soon. I just don't like the thought of possibly having one of those reflectors find their way loose and jam into my fork in bad ways. As far as the rear...I got my `600...and might add another for safe measure.

[Allister]

Rear and side reflectors are legally required, though many of us ditch those rather quick. I know I did. BUT, I do use plenty of lighting front and back (cateye led 600, and a niterider trailrat 2.0 w cateye el110 backup light). Given I do need side lighting, and I plan on getting some reflective wall tires for that soon. I just don't like the thought of possibly having one of those reflectors find their way loose and jam into my fork in bad ways. As far as the rear...I got my `600...and might add another for safe measure.

Can you think of any situation where side reflectors might actually be of use?