You know biking must be very low on their priority when you are honked at, yelled at, pushed around and even spit at for doing the right thing and riding a bike.
It could be another way, you know. Like cyclists getting respect --and even admiration-- if one of our presidents spoke thus...
"My fellow Americans, in light of scarce oil as well as the threat of Terrorism and Global Warming, the days of the hungry dinosaurs are over. Yes, no more SUVs, starting with my own. Instead, we will go back to the smartest, cleanest and simplest vehicle ever created: the bike. You shouldn't look at it though as a sacrifice, but as the means to enjoy more free time. Yes, you won't have to work your life away to keep a Stupid Unnecessry Vehicle. And to top if off, you can be as sexy as me..." :thumb:
And then the President rides off in his lycra suit... Well, the last part may not be such a great idea, but the rest is. So do you agree that the goverment can do more, far more, for promoting biking?
The BikeForums Team
-adv-
This is an archived thread, you can find the full version of this thread, with images, links and more content here.
To me, the scariest sentence ever uttered is "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you."
DonQuixote1954
To me, the scariest sentence ever uttered is "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help you."
They do help the big ones (gas subsidies), why not the little ones?
mconlonx
Unfortunately, I could only see a gov't program to advocate biking as another pork project. Even if immediately it was funded from something else, like a greater share of the entire Transportation budget, it would soon turn into it's own boondoggle with established bureaucracy, etc.
Would have to be an extremely brave or stupid president to travel by bike... (not because of car drivers in this case, more teh crazy "lone gunmen" to be worried about)
invisiblehand
Depends on what "support" means and what we -- society -- lose to get that support.
DonQuixote1954
Unfortunately, I could only see a gov't program to advocate biking as another pork project. Even if immediately it was funded from something else, like a greater share of the entire Transportation budget, it would soon turn into it's own boondoggle with established bureaucracy, etc.
Would have to be an extremely brave or stupid president to travel by bike... (not because of car drivers in this case, more teh crazy "lone gunmen" to be worried about)
If they are good (?) to manage war with a bureaucracy in place, I don't see why not it could help bicycling... The creation of a "Department of Bicycling and Alternative Transportation" would create a budget for it as well as sending the right signal.
I could understand your concerns about the president riding a bike, but we are all putting our lives on the line everyday for doing the right thing.
Still, I think we could grant him an Electric Vehicle...
Hey, our President says we need more research into alternative transportation, and they are already here! A simple Internet search would have saved him from embarrasment... :innocent:
genec
At least as much as they support other forms of transit...
I would like to see true transportation paths vice the current disjointed "system" of parks and recreation "maintained" paths. Imagine if there were a public mandate such as the Federal Hiway act of 1956 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Act_of_1956) for bicycles.
I would also like to see basic education on road use in public schools... There is more to life than "readin' 'writin' and 'rithithmatic." Most people drive for much of their lives... now if they only fully knew the rules and ethics of driving and other forms of transit.
st0ut
this is like asking a PETA forum if the govt should promote vegitarianism. or an NRAforum if the govt should sponcer home fire arms.
Az B
I don't think the government is really as important as social change. As a society we're becoming mean, less patient, more self righteous, and ignorant.
We need to address that first, before we expect the government to change anything.
And the place to start is with ourselves.
Az
DonQuixote1954
At least as much as they support other forms of transit...
I would like to see true transportation paths vice the current disjointed "system" of parks and recreation "maintained" paths. Imagine if there were a public mandate such as the Federal Hiway act of 1956 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Act_of_1956) for bicycles.
I liked the video clip... I do 2 miles round trip to go to the supermarket. It's the best trip I do around on my bike. Actually, it's the only one I do for practical purposes, since going to the other stores puts at me at deadly risk with cars.
It's a damn shame. :mad:
Feathers
i don't think the government could help get me more "into" cycling.
harleyfrog
They do help the big ones (gas subsidies), why not the little ones?
QED
genec
I liked the video clip... I do 2 miles round trip to go to the supermarket. It's the best trip I do around on my bike. Actually, it's the only one I do for practical purposes, since going to the other stores puts at me at deadly risk with cars.
It's a damn shame. :mad:
Thanks for the comment on the video clip... it has been part of my sig for months now and you are the first one to mention it.
Imagine if something like that showed on TV as much as car ads.
DonQuixote1954
Thanks for the comment on the video clip... it has been part of my sig for months now and you are the first one to mention it.
Imagine if something like that showed on TV as much as car ads.
It would sell biking and bikes pretty good.
But the point --stated in the video-- is that Americans already have the most bikes and are the least to use them! 40% of trips under two miles, but you have to negotiate a jungle to get there! My weekend job is two miles away, and I rarely dare to ride that road! It's a busy 3 lane road with no space whatsover for bikes. And drivers speeding at 50mph are common sight!
So who would put the bell on the cat? :(
abirduphigh
I don't think the government is really as important as social change. As a society we're becoming mean, less patient, more self righteous, and ignorant.
We need to address that first, before we expect the government to change anything.
And the place to start is with ourselves.
Az
You just nailed it.
genec
It would sell biking and bikes pretty good.
But the point --stated in the video-- is that Americans already have the most bikes and are the least to use them! 40% of trips under two miles, but you have to negotiate a jungle to get there! My weekend job is two miles away, and I rarely dare to ride that road! It's a busy 3 lane road with no space whatsover for bikes. And drivers speeding at 50mph are common sight!
So who would put the bell on the cat? :(
Maybe if the government was actively seeking to make cycling a part of the real transportation package, and was really thinking green, rather then simply giving a passing nod (to both) in their support, we would have streets that were not auto centric, and a society that was more supportive of cyclists. I hate to point this out as it is often looked as being "a liberal agenda," but perhaps we could think more "European" in some of these aspects. The world after all is not just ours to "burn" as we please.
I think the example of Jimmy Carter putting the solar panels on the roof of the Whitehouse and Reagan removing them are the text book cases of why our current energy policy and social policies are what they are today. While we Americans have a nice self image of being independent and ingenious, the reality is we are pretty poor managers of our natural resources.
harleyfrog
I think the example of Jimmy Carter putting the solar panels on the roof of the Whitehouse and Reagan removing them are the text book cases of why our current energy policy and social policies are what they are today. While we Americans have a nice self image of being independent and ingenious, the reality is we are pretty poor managers of our natural resources.
I'll second that statement and sign my name to it. Until NASA starts building colonies on Mars, we need to focus more on being better stewards to our planet. If the Government is willing to do some meaning, productive efforts on this, great, but I ain't holding my breath. When the Federal Government has EPA to help keep clean up industrial waste dumps, the Department of Energy that (supposedly) is seeking alternative energy sources, and the National Park Service to protect our cultural, historical, and natural landmarks on the one hand and give subsidies to the big oil companies, trying (unsuccessfully so far) to drill for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and doesn't do more to promote alternative energy and mass transit on the other, it makes me shake my head in disbelief. :wtf:
(Note: I'm neither a Democrat or a Republican. I'm more or less a Libertarian, but mostly a cynic. I am Diogenes, walking with my staff and a lantern, looking for one honest politician.)
genec
(Note: I'm neither a Democrat or a Republican. I'm more or less a Libertarian, but mostly a cynic. I am Diogenes, walking with my staff and a lantern, looking for one honest politician.)
:lol: That's gonna be one long walk...
bac
"My fellow Americans, in light of scarce oil as well as the threat of Terrorism and Global Warming, the days of the hungry dinosaurs are over. Yes, no more SUVs, starting with my own. Instead, we will go back to the smartest, cleanest and simplest vehicle ever created: the bike. You shouldn't look at it though as a sacrifice, but as the means to enjoy more free time. Yes, you won't have to work your life away to keep a Stupid Unnecessry Vehicle. And to top if off, you can be as sexy as me..." :thumb:
And then the President rides off in his lycra suit... Well, the last part may not be such a great idea, but the rest is. So do you agree that the goverment can do more, far more, for promoting biking?
That is a fine scenario. Now if we can just vote out all the politicians and start from scratch, we may have a chance.
In other words, there is no chance. :(
... Brad
DonQuixote1954
i don't think the government could help get me more "into" cycling.
But they sure get most people into driving, whether they want it or not, given the risks involved in cycling.
The way things are for me, for example, I'm forced to drive more than I should, simply to make it there alive or without harassment. :notamused:
DonQuixote1954
That is a fine scenario. Now if we can just vote out all the politicians and start from scratch, we may have a chance.
In other words, there is no chance. :(
... Brad
I don't think the way things are there's a chance of someone honest proposing something smart, and making it happen. It's rather someone crooked proposing some money-making scheme, always thinking about re-election time...
To be honest, I can only see a puppet --yes, a real puppet-- changing things... :D
http://webspawner.com/users/elections2008
SSP
The best thing they could do to support cycling is to start raising the federal gas tax. It's currently a joke - only 18 cents per gallon, and it hasn't been raised in nearly 20 years.
If they would increase it by 25-50 cents per year for the next 10 years or so, that would generate a huge amount of money. It would be enough to finance national health care, and would encourage people to demand smaller, more fuel efficient cars, and would also encourage many to start using bikes and public transportation.
Bottom line...our gas has been far too cheap, for far too long. Raising the price of this non-renewable resource will send appropriate signals to the free markets, which will respond appropriately by becoming more efficient as the price goes up.
Unfortunately, none of our politicians have the balls to suggest this, and most Americans are too self-centered, lazy, and ignorant of economics for it to ever become a reality.
If only Bush had recommended a hike in the gas tax post-9/11...it could have been called the "Freedom Tax", or the "War on Terror" tax. But, no...unlike any other war in our history, we were not called on to sacrifice...instead, our duty was to shop and go into debt. Sigh...
CommuterRun
It doesn't matter what any past President, the President, or any future President says, most American adults are not going to get on a bicycle, much less actually use one for transportation, until forced.
I would like to see a tax break for commuting in a fuel efficient, low impact vehicle.
I would also like to see sharrows on all roads, but that's a local government issue, and it will be a very long time coming, if it ever happens, here.
cyclezealot
To some extent the government does. Its just insufficient. Most of our bike paths are built with federal matching funds.
DonQuixote1954
If only Bush had recommended a hike in the gas tax post-9/11...it could have been called the "Freedom Tax", or the "War on Terror" tax. But, no...unlike any other war in our history, we were not called on to sacrifice...instead, our duty was to shop and go into debt. Sigh...
There's only one word missing in those comments... AMEN! :thumb:
No wonder the SUVs were for the war. But the smart way to go is the bicycles' way...
'Yes, we need to fight a war, but no, the enemy is not Iraq... The enemy is oil with 65+ percent of the known oil reserves in the politically unstable, "Death to America"-chanting Middel East. Imagine the advances the United States could make to world stability and developing domestic employment opportunities if it spent the $79+ billion Congress recently approved for Bush's Iraq war on alternative energy subsidies and investment. Might this be a better way to fight terrorism, support our troops, and regain world favor?'
-Jay Lustgarten (Source: World Press Review, letters)
DonQuixote1954
It doesn't matter what any past President, the President, or any future President says, most American adults are not going to get on a bicycle, much less actually use one for transportation, until forced.
I would like to see a tax break for commuting in a fuel efficient, low impact vehicle.
I would also like to see sharrows on all roads, but that's a local government issue, and it will be a very long time coming, if it ever happens, here.
30% of the Dutch do it. That fat, lazy Americans won't is rather pessimistic --given the proper incentives. :rolleyes:
Higher gas prices are a step in the right direction. And so would be taxing it. But it's also biking being promoted the way SUVs are.
DonQuixote1954
To some extent the government does. Its just insufficient. Most of our bike paths are built with federal matching funds.
And so our bike paths are insufficient and not connected at all.
Let's say the government is more interested in creating colonies in Mars than in cycling. :notamused:
fluke
I think people need to help themselves and bike more. I don't want anyone 'help along' into using a bike by uncle sam, it would just spawn bad attitudes about it, you know? One thing I would like the government to do is lighten up on biking prohibitions in certain areas (parks and things) and have more nice biking trails to ride on in them. That would help promote biking without being forceful or tyrannical.
DonQuixote1954
I think people need to help themselves and bike more. I don't want anyone 'help along' into using a bike by uncle sam, it would just spawn bad attitudes about it, you know? One thing I would like the government to do is lighten up on biking prohibitions in certain areas (parks and things) and have more nice biking trails to ride on in them. That would help promote biking without being forceful or tyrannical.
They are already tyrannical about the things you smoke or not, particularly if it gives you a high, the reason being that they are concerned about your health. :rolleyes:
Why not have them promote a healthy lifestyle? Wouldn't it better the other way around --bike promotion and pot tolerance-- just like the Dutch?
chipcom
I wish the government would get its own house in order and leave cycling alone. Get politicians involved and we'll just end up with barriers to entry, taxes and stupid rules designed to pad someone's pockets.
slagjumper
Where would sugar, gas, coal and meat be without some government handouts? Biking actually could use the handouts. I'd like to see incentives for employers who allow biking to work and showers. Some PSAs would be nice. Perhaps the government could stop the taxes that go to build roads, then when the roads became so bad and conjested, folks would realize that bikes where the answer.
Bekologist
since local, state and federal governments 'support cycling' thru infrastructure design mandates, etc.... the planning&implementation seen in some USA cities, as well as federal directives to 'improve safety for bicyclists and pedestrians along transportation cooridors' seems government 'support' for bicycling.
maybe ya'all are thinking about cycling policitians or a gas tax? please, a little more 'feet on the ground' 'lines in the sand' and 'paint on the pavement' i think some government agencies ARE supporting biking.
Do states' bans on hand held cellphone use qualify as a bicycling safety improvement and de facto governmental support for bicycling?
John Pucher, a top tier bicycle transportation researcher, feels american resistance to adopting some of the European 'carrot and stick' pro-bicycling social policies will leave US bicycling at under 5% modal share.
perhaps greater social planning in the USA ;)?
noisebeam
Where would sugar, gas, coal and meat be without some government handouts? Biking actually could use the handouts. I'd like to see incentives for employers who allow biking to work and showers. Some PSAs would be nice.
Make the handouts for energy used for transportation come with requirement that when converted during transportation they don't any toxins or particulates into the immediate environment. Well, one can get the idea..
If there was one thing that could be changed to improve cycling (I already have clean pavement and showers) it would be reduced air pollutants ideally approaching zero. That is one that the government is so tied up with that it has to help.
Al
CommuterRun
30% of the Dutch do it. That fat, lazy Americans won't is rather pessimistic --given the proper incentives. :rolleyes:
Higher gas prices are a step in the right direction. And so would be taxing it. But it's also biking being promoted the way SUVs are.
Call me a pessimist then. Go on other forums, not related to cycling, and pull up threads related to high gas prices. You'll often see a lot of ideas, a lot of speculation, a lot of kvetching, and not one word about cycling unless it's in jest.
Americans aren't Dutch. They don't understand that kind of social responsibility.
ATAC49er
Americans aren't Dutch. They don't understand that kind of social responsibility.
You're right, and that's a crime; the time I spent in Europe as one of Uncle Sam's Boy Scouts (army), I got a real up-close-and-personal view of social responsibility. Part of it is because it's necessary over there in order to manage limited space and resources. But part of it is also cultural, and we just don't have that here.
Somewhere along the line, over the last few decades, we as a people have lost focus on one BIG thing: with every right comes an equal responsibility. Right to free speech? Responsibility to know WTF you're talking about, and to use that right when it's needed! Right to bear arms? (it says "right of the people", not "right of the militia") Responsibility not to shoot your neighbor cuz he parked in your favorite spot!
I was taught as a youth that my rights ended one inch short of your nose. That means one person's rights don't trump another's, and if you try, your rights are put under restraint. (Case in point: loud stereos in cars -- illegal all over the place, an example of noise pollution, and the noise penetrates windows, doors, and walls; the right of the driver using this is infringing on my right not to hear his garbage.)
Rights are not absolute, people. But responsibility must be.
Ducky
The less our govt is involved in our own lives the better. Everything the govt has ever been involved in, has turned into a financial nightmare, and a total mess of regulations, laws and over all bull****. Keep the govt out of cycling... hell theyll probably want to require license for anyone over 16 to operate a bicycle on public roads.. which will of course be flat rate, but be 50% more money due to 'fees, and taxes'
chicharron
If the government was involved in it, then it would get all f***ed up. I would lilke to see the government protect the rights of bicyclist however.
cyclezealot
And so our bike paths are insufficient and not connected at all.
Let's say the government is more interested in creating colonies in Mars than in cycling. :notamused:
The Federal Transportation budget has an alternative transportation side. The bike lobby in the US House has a major role to play in getting monies set aside for bike projects. The Bike Caucus is headed by Rep. Earl Blumenauer of Oregon. The caucus has members of both parties. Have you talked to your COngress member telling them to listen to Blumenauer and do all they can to get bike paths 'connected.' All it takes is a decent budget, such as they have in the Netherlands.
DonQuixote1954
Call me a pessimist then. Go on other forums, not related to cycling, and pull up threads related to high gas prices. You'll often see a lot of ideas, a lot of speculation, a lot of kvetching, and not one word about cycling unless it's in jest.
Americans aren't Dutch. They don't understand that kind of social responsibility.
I don't know why that such be the case when the Dutch gave us so many things...
The Pilgrims in Holland
by Robert A. Peterson
The Dutch have given many things to America: Easter eggs, Santa Claus, waffles, sauerkraut, sleighing, skating, and a host of "vans" and "velts" that helped to build our nation. But perhaps their greatest contribution to America was the 11 years of freedom they gave the Pilgrims -- crucial years that helped America's founding fathers work out their philosophy of freedom and prepare for self-government in the New World.
http://www.theadvocates.org/freeman/8811petr.html
If the Pilgrims decided to make America part of Holland we wouldn't be going through this. :rolleyes:
Nevertheless I think that if a president were to step forward to tell fat, lazy Americans to do like the Dutch, many, many people would take up biking. And the president would risk the re-election without Big Oil money... :o
John E
I'll second that statement and sign my name to it. Until NASA starts building colonies on Mars, we need to focus more on being better stewards to our planet. If the Government is willing to do some meaning, productive efforts on this, great, but I ain't holding my breath. When the Federal Government has EPA to help keep clean up industrial waste dumps, the Department of Energy that (supposedly) is seeking alternative energy sources, and the National Park Service to protect our cultural, historical, and natural landmarks on the one hand and give subsidies to the big oil companies, trying (unsuccessfully so far) to drill for oil in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, and doesn't do more to promote alternative energy and mass transit on the other, it makes me shake my head in disbelief. :wtf:
(Note: I'm neither a Democrat or a Republican. I'm more or less a Libertarian, but mostly a cynic. I am Diogenes, walking with my staff and a lantern, looking for one honest politician.)
You, sir, are a kindred spirit.
As for my own wishes, I think government can best help bicycling by holding motorists accountable for their misdeeds, raising standards for motorist education, and adopting bicycle- and pedestrian-friendly standards for roadway design.
DonQuixote1954
You're right, and that's a crime; the time I spent in Europe as one of Uncle Sam's Boy Scouts (army), I got a real up-close-and-personal view of social responsibility. Part of it is because it's necessary over there in order to manage limited space and resources. But part of it is also cultural, and we just don't have that here.
And nobody is even trying that over here. I wonder, if politicians get to travel so much on "business trips," why they don't go to Europe and learn something. Gee, noise pollution, littering, universal healthcare, drug liberalization, sprawl, crime, road manners, bike facilities... :o
It makes me wonder if we are really ready for Nation Bulding in Iraq. Maybe be should pass it to the Dutch! :innocent:
DonQuixote1954
The less our govt is involved in our own lives the better. Everything the govt has ever been involved in, has turned into a financial nightmare, and a total mess of regulations, laws and over all bull****. Keep the govt out of cycling... hell theyll probably want to require license for anyone over 16 to operate a bicycle on public roads.. which will of course be flat rate, but be 50% more money due to 'fees, and taxes'
If they should be out of the good things in life (healthcare, bike facilities), why do we give them a blank check when it comes to the bad things (nation building in Iraq)?
It must be very confusing to an European mind. :rolleyes:
DonQuixote1954
The Federal Transportation budget has an alternative transportation side. The bike lobby in the US House has a major role to play in getting monies set aside for bike projects. The Bike Caucus is headed by Rep. Earl Blumenauer of Oregon. The caucus has members of both parties. Have you talked to your COngress member telling them to listen to Blumenauer and do all they can to get bike paths 'connected.' All it takes is a decent budget, such as they have in the Netherlands.
He must have a low profile on it because there's no single mention to the word "bicycle" on his website nor in his vision for the 21st century...
But there's no "beef" in it. We too have a "Bicycle Coordinator" at the local level who doesn't get anything accomplished. Just one more bureaucrat... :notamused:
As for my own wishes, I think government can best help bicycling by holding motorists accountable for their misdeeds, raising standards for motorist education, and adopting bicycle- and pedestrian-friendly standards for roadway design.
Put officers in plain clothes; put 20mph speed limit on right lane of multiple lane roads, put speed cameras on every light; put politicians on bikes --at least occasionally.
The Human Car
At least as much as they support other forms of transit...
I would like to see true transportation paths vice the current disjointed "system" of parks and recreation "maintained" paths. Imagine if there were a public mandate such as the Federal Hiway act of 1956 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highway_Act_of_1956) for bicycles.
http://www.adventurecycling.org/routes/nbrn/usbikewaysystem.cfm
Fine, but no matter how you slice it, that system of bike routes (already built roads that are simply "designated") will never equal the grade separated and controlled environment that makes up this nation's interstate system for AUTOS.
And I am willing to bet that not even 2% of the cost of the interstate system is spent on this US Bikeway system.
Remember autos travel relatively unimpeded (except by their own crowds... ) across America on the interstate system.... Cyclists on even the most friendly "designated" roads will still have motor traffic and traffic controls (designed for motor traffic) as impediments (and dangers) in their travel.
I'd like to see a plan like that of sending a man to the moon...
"Before this decade is out (2018) we can have a man go from Key West to Seattle on a bike route..."
You know, I want to see a deadline for it.
maddmaxx
Anything that the government touches that I like is probably not in my best interest. Our government is broken. Do not ask the government to do things for you..............go out and make them happen yourself and do you best to keep the politicians at arms length.
genec
I'd like to see a plan like that of sending a man to the moon...
"Before this decade is out (2018) we can have a man go from Key West to Seattle on a bike route..."
You know, I want to see a deadline for it.
Key West to Seattle on a bike hiway!
BTW years ago I did a tour of California on the BikeCentennial designated route... there was really nothing special about it... except for Santa Barbara, where there were bike controlled traffic signals and well designed and designated bike lanes and paths... all the rest involved nothing more than a simple sign somewhere that pointed out where you should turn... while you still had to deal with all the usual issues of motor traffic and roads designed primarily for the automobile.
If that is all we would get from the government... then frankly they can save the cost of signs and pass it on to education.
DonQuixote1954
Anything that the government touches that I like is probably not in my best interest. Our government is broken. Do not ask the government to do things for you..............go out and make them happen yourself and do you best to keep the politicians at arms length.
If it took the Govt to send a man to the moon, I don't see why not they can make a bike route to criscross America. Hey, a few million bucks lost here and there, but it can't possibly be as bad as nation building in Iraq! :o