Commuting - How to approach a Stop Light

Quick Question.

You approach a red light where there's 3 Cars already stopped do you

1. Pull past the 3 cars all the way up to the Stop line so you are even with the first car.
2. pull up behind the last car in line just as you would on a motorcycle or in a car.


I always do #1 but I often wonder if I'm correct to do so... after all, technically I should abide by all the same rules of the road as anyone else on it. right?

I do #2, but like you I'm not really sure if that's right or not.

2 is correct

if you pull even you are lane sharing which is not only illegal it is very dangerous.

what do you do after the light goes green? do you continue to ride next to the front car or do you allow it to pass? I just can not see any advantage to pulling even with the front car, all you are doing is making the road dangerous for everyone and forfeiting your lane position

I just posted something like this in relation to an article about bike commuting, I get to the front of the line because I am on a bike and I can. I have been doing this for a while. So I get to the front along side the car that is first.

I started out doing #1, but I get better reactions and feel safer doing #2.

Depends on how wide the lane is. If there's enough room for there to be a proper bike lane (even if there isn't one), I'll slowly ride up to the light. Or if there's no room to the side, like what happened at one light this morning, I'll take my place in line.

I started out doing #1, but I get better reactions and feel safer doing #2.

Good to know, I may give this a shot today but there are certain lights where I can get a headtstart on the cars behind me. I can see getting better reactions with using approach 2.
I guess I don't really gain much by being one car ahead. Makes sense

I tend to do #2, unless the traffic is backed up... then I figure why add more congestion to the mess, and I filter forward and go with a motorist. (thereby causing no more delay)

#2 unless I am certain I will end up waiting an extra light cycle in which case I filter forward only enough to avoid that.

It seems pointless to get passed again and I want the drivers behind me to be most aware of me - and staying in back of line assures that vs. being up front off to the side with blocked sight lines.

Al

In a recent LA Times article about motorcycles, #1 is referred to as "Lane Splitting" which, as far I know, is legal in CA.

If there's only 3 cars, I wait in line. There's nothing to be gained by passing 3 cars that will just pass me back.

If I were turning right I'd pass them.

Now, if there's 20 cars, and I know only 15 will make it through the light, I'm jumping to the front -- maybe not the very front, but close to it. Before my office moved, there was one stoplight that would have required me to sit through three light cycles every single day if I'd waited in line.

Dang I have been doing approach one this whole time, people in cars must be pissed at me but I did think I was using good judgment. There is one light where many cars get backed up so I just say alright I need to get to the front because I can.

#2 here. I feel safer, it lets other drivers know that I consider myself a vehicle and follow the rules of the road, and I find that I can get as quick, if not quicker start, than most cars when stopped at a light, so they can't use the excuse that I'm holding up traffic.

You are correct, however California is the ONLY state lane splitting is legal in.source (http://accident-law.freeadvice.com/accident-law/motorcycle-helmut-laws.htm)


this made a lot of sense to me


It seems pointless to get passed again and I want the drivers behind me to be most aware of me - and staying in back of line assures that vs. being up front off to the side with blocked sight lines.


I think i'll switch it up on the ride home and go for what seems to be the more accepted #2. There's one light though where I cross a busy highway where ALL cyclists regardless pull up past all the cars to the line. I think at that particular light it just makes it easier to hurry up and get across the highway and get in the lane than waiting.

Dang I have been doing approach one this whole time, people in cars must be pissed at me but I did think I was using good judgment. There is one light where many cars get backed up so I just say alright I need to get to the front because I can.

I recommend trying approach #2 for a while. I'll betstimate that you will only go back to #1 for cases where you would otherwise end up waiting an extra light cycle or for where you are going to turn right and there is room to safely filter.

This topic by the way is an oft debated one. Not everyone agrees that #2 (with stated exceptions) is preferred, but those are mostly folks who haven't given #2 an honest trial period. :)

Al

#2 here. I feel safer, it lets other drivers know that I consider myself a vehicle and follow the rules of the road,


This is the initial reason I questioned the wisdom of what I was doing. I consider myself a vehicle and I follow the rules of the road. And somewhere along the line I expect to be treated by others as such although i realize thats a whimsical idea at best :p

I recommend trying approach #2 for a while. I'll betstimate that you will only go back to #1 for cases where you would otherwise end up waiting an extra light cycle or for where you are going to turn right and there is room to safely filter.

This topic by the way is an oft debated one. Not everyone agrees that #2 (with stated exceptions) is preferred, but those are mostly folks who haven't given #2 an honest trial period. :)

Al

Thanks, I honestly thought nothing of it until this post. The better I can get along with motorists the better. One of the intersections is a tough one because I cross railroad tracks and then the lane splits into three 2 going straight and one going right so I have to make a quick move to get in my lane.

Another advantage of #2 is when the vehicles in front of you get going, they will get you going quicker due to their draft.

Al

Where I live and commute I have bicycle lanes next to the arterial roads. On those roads that I am in the bike lane I will stop even with the car in the front. On regular surface roads without the bike lane I will take my place in line behind the stopped cars.

Even when there is a BL I line up with other vehicles unless I am making a right turn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvA6jQyPP98

I will go all the way up on the right if they all have left turn signals on (and there's room). Then I hope they meant it.

I will go all the way up on the right if they all have left turn signals on (and there's room). Then I hope they meant it.


:lol: oh lawwd that be my BIGGEST pet peeve right there.:twitchy:

Depends on the light. If I know the light to be short, I'll filter through and make sure I get through on the next cycle (there's a light in my current commute that lasts only 2-3 cars regardless of conditions - I'd filter to this one).

To be fair I guess I filter most/pretty much all of the time - I find it safer for me to get across intersections first/before the cars get going, if I'm not close enough to get right to the front, I'll find a gap and duck to the curbside (I usually filter by splitting lanes, I find it much safer than curb squeezing) to allow traffic to flow properly.

:lol: oh lawwd that be my BIGGEST pet peeve right there.:twitchy:

My thing is that I know on certain lights I can get to the front and I know the timing of the lights well too so that I can get a headtstart, am I wrong here? The light I am doing this on leads right into another light with another set of railroad tracks to cross, it's my least favorite part of my commute.

For me it depends on the situation and the type of road I'm on. If there is plenty of shoulder room, I go with #1 and then let everyone pass.

Forgot to add, in the particular light on my commute, there's a LTO and a right/straight on lane - I go left, and so if there are other cars I will make the turn alongside them and ride the corner into the curblane of the street I'm crossing onto - most cars usually end up in the middle of both lanes or in the centre lane from what I've witnessed so far. As drivers here seem abismally horrible at lane discipline, I feel this is a safe course for me.

The intersection is also staggered with a highway off ramp, meaning after I make my left, I have a few seconds to check the offramp to my right side for traffic flying off the highway... yeah - it's awesome! ;)

Link to a map of the intersection (http://maps.google.ca/?ie=UTF8&ll=43.864849,-78.936059&spn=0.002112,0.004195&t=h&z=18) - I head from the parking lot/station area east, then north on Brock from those lights.

I do #2 most of the time. However, if there is a long line of traffic and a wide shoulder, I sometimes go to the front. Case in point: There is a very long light at the road where I leave my office building. It's a major street, 4-lanes wide. Traffic backs up there every afternoon, and if I go to the end of the line I will usually have to wait through two light cycles. So I ride to the front because there is a lined off area separating the right and left turn lanes. The road doesn't continue straight for cars, but I go straight and cut through a parking lot on the other side to reach another road. I'm not slowing down any traffic by going to the front, and it's not very safe for me to stay in the lane with other cars that are all rushing to get through the light before it turns red again.

I do #2, take the middle of the rightmost lane so that I'm established and then once I get to the other side of the intersection, go back to the right side of the lane.

Is anybody else giggling to themselves reading people say things like, "I started out doing #1, but I get better reactions and feel safer doing #2." or am I the only child here?

This is exactly what I do.

If I feel like what I gain by filtering is worth making a few motorists angry I'll do it, but never all the way to the front if I'm going straight. I'll usually stop 2 or 3 cars back and then just move with traffic when the light changes. If I'm turning right I'll filter all the way to the front if no one else is signaling a turn, but if either of the front two or three cars are turning right I'll hand behind them.


If there's only 3 cars, I wait in line. There's nothing to be gained by passing 3 cars that will just pass me back.

If I were turning right I'd pass them.

Now, if there's 20 cars, and I know only 15 will make it through the light, I'm jumping to the front -- maybe not the very front, but close to it. Before my office moved, there was one stoplight that would have required me to sit through three light cycles every single day if I'd waited in line.

I tend to do #2, unless the traffic is backed up... then I figure why add more congestion to the mess, and I filter forward and go with a motorist. (thereby causing no more delay)

+1, although where I position myself will depend on if there are right turns allowed at the intersection - if so then I filter forward to the left of the cars.

Is anybody else giggling to themselves reading people say things like, "I started out doing #1, but I get better reactions and feel safer doing #2." or am I the only child here?



oh totally, and I'm really looking forward to trying #2 on my commute home :lol:

oh totally, and I'm really looking forward to trying #2 on my commute home :lol:

Motorists react strongly when you try #2 or #1 at a stop light. Studies have shown they find it vulgar and disruptive.

I was watching a show on public TV this morning about bike laws in Oregon and this was specifically addressed. Option #1 was described as universal practice, and if I understood correctly it recently became law in Oregon.

So, it depends on where you live.

Personally, I try not to ride on roads where cars can't pass me easily. If the cars can pass me easily, I have no problems with #1. If I think they'll have trouble passing me, I go with #2.

This is the beauty of bikes.

Want to act like a car? Cool.
Want to slide past all the cars because you can? Awesome.
Want to pretend you're a pedestrian when approaching intersections and cross on the crosswalks? Fire away.

All of the above may not be totally legal, but in my experience bikes are completely ignored by cops as far as the rules of the road are concerned, for better or worse.

I always do #1

I do the same thing at a left turn as well. I filter up to the front and get out of everyone's way that is rushing to make the light.

Is there a option #3?

Is there a option #3?

yes, Get run over. ;) :lol:

All of the above may not be totally legal, but in my experience bikes are completely ignored by cops as far as the rules of the road are concerned, for better or worse.

Only until there are a substantial number of bikes on the roads. Then there will need to be sensible rules to prevent collisions and confusion.

It's option #1. For me it has little to do with getting there faster by not waiting through another light cycle. Rear end collisions are one of the most common accidents between cars. Do you really want be sitting behind another car while some SUV rear ends you?

I filter if I have a bike lane or I'm riding on the right side of a wide lane. I wait in line if I've been taking the lane or I expect to in the next few hundred feet. Not complicated.

Also I would restate your #1. Never sit next to the car; either wait in front of him or between the first two cars in line.

There is no correct, or incorrect answer. It depends on the situation. I usually split the cars, go to the front, and get right in front of the lead car. Sometimes I stay at the back if I believe the light will turn before I get to the front. I usually do not sit at the back of the line. The first person at the end of the line, is the first person hit in a rear end accident.

I also agree with a comment make in passing by vaticdart in post #30, "and then just move with traffic when the light changes".

If I am filtering forward or riding alongside in a bike lane as cars start forward through a green light, when I get close to the intersection I do not pass the moving cars as they get up to speed, but at the most I will keep even with a car just to my side or behind me in a position where they can see me. I don't want to pass any cars as we approach the intersection.

This is to avoid overtaking a car that decides to turn right with or without signaling. If I overtake them as they turn right, they likely will not see me and I will be the victim of a right hook.

Quick Question.

You approach a red light where there's 3 Cars already stopped do you

1. Pull past the 3 cars all the way up to the Stop line so you are even with the first car.
2. pull up behind the last car in line just as you would on a motorcycle or in a car.


I always do #1 but I often wonder if I'm correct to do so... after all, technically I should abide by all the same rules of the road as anyone else on it. right?

I do the first one, but I pull out slightly in front of the car. No reason to be stuck behind a car inhaling all that crap that comes from it. Just need to be careful of people who are trying to make a right turn.

#2 keeps you out of right-hook danger, which from what I have read is a more common accident than rear-ending. With #1, if there's no shoulder or bike lane after the intersection you force all those cars that passed you on the way TO the stop light to pass you again AFTER the light, which just seems rude. If you can avoid the hook and there's room on either end, I don't see a problem with #1. I do #2 because it feels safer.

This is the initial reason I questioned the wisdom of what I was doing. I consider myself a vehicle and I follow the rules of the road. And somewhere along the line I expect to be treated by others as such although i realize thats a whimsical idea at best :p

You are considered a "Pedestrian Vehicle" by law.

At a light with no bike lane I take the lane. Doesn't matter how many cars are in front of me. My lane, not sharing! This resulted in some serious funny today, since a young woman in a red sedan pulled up next to me on the *right* in a straight/right turn lane. I was positioned for straight, so I figured she was turning. When the light changed, she tried to go straight and pass me in the intersection, then realized she'd run into a shop window and thought better of it. (When she did pass me about 3 blocks later, she did better)

At a light with a straight lane, a bike lane and a median segregated turn lane, I use the bike lane to filter up to the front. My lane, not sharing! I still keep an eye out for idiots, but in this situation a right hook is relatively uncommon. I'm far more concerned with cross traffic doing a right turn on red into me.

At a light with a regular lane (ie right turns allowed) and a bike lane, I'll stop where it is prudent. If there's a long line of cars with no signals blinking but lots of people indicating a right turn via lane position, I'll be a suspicious chick on a bike and stop behind the furthest back car that is making me nervous. Usually, most of 'em will turn right. Then when I get to the light I can go forward safely.

#1 all the way, baby. If I wanted to sit in traffic all day I'd have driven in. WOoooooooooooHHHHOoooooooooooooo!

#1 definitely, but I live in a town with lots of bike lanes.

Even when the strip of paint is absent, I see nothing wrong in telling drivers, through my behavior, that they are going to have to get used to passing me safely. Over and over, if necessary.

Depends on my mood and the light. Tend to go with #2, some lights during rush hour that get backed up I definitely do #1.. why wait 10 lengths back when you don't have to.