Quick! Which one of these bikes is more suitable.....

[pengyou]

I am going to buy a folding bike - probably this weekend. I will be using the bike for trips of up to 15 miles - maybe even more. I am buying a folding bike because I travel a lot.

I have heard that tracking has a lot to do with how stable a bike will ride. How important is this? Which one of these bikes is "likely" to be the best for my purposes? and why? The "why" is very important because I have several other models that I am looking at. I am looking to learn principles. You can ignore the Chinese and just look at the pictures ;)

http://mall.sina.com.cn/Product_1195043.htm
http://mall.sina.com.cn/p/2212/2221/2321/376490.htm
http://mall.sina.com.cn/p/18/2123/1134928.htm

[CaptainSpalding]

Okay. It seems to me like you are looking at three Dahons, the Boardwalk, the Roo, and a Helios (the frame profile looks like a Helios to me, not an Impulse. I might be wrong.) I know that Dahons are spec'd differently per market, so, owing to the Chinese that I am ignoring (wo bu hui shuo zhongguo hua) I have no idea how those bikes are spec'd.

That said, I have a Helios, and it will certainly meet your requirement, although as you stated it, it is a bit vague. When you say you travel a lot, does that mean you intend to put a bike in a suitcase? When you say 15 miles, is that 15 miles of city streets? Country lanes? Winding mountainous coastal roads?

[Dynocoaster]

Get the one that will be the most comfortable for you. You can always upgrade it later to suit your needs.

[pengyou]

Thanks! Yes, travel a lot meaning I will put the bike in a suitcase or carry it on a train. 15 miles or so mostly on paved road but probably often have cracks and crevices and potholes...an occassional stretch of smooth pavement :) When I am back in America I will exchange the flat pitted roads of China with the hilly smooth roads of the foothills of the Sierra and ....well, I travel about 10,000 miles in America when I go home, from San Fran to Seattle to DC to Colo springs....

[ShinyBiker]

The first one you linked has a cut in the bottom seatpost (like a >). Maybe this is a problem with the image, but that's a major point of stress and that kinda worries me. The first one also doesn't have a rear rack.

Other than the remaining 2 would fit your needs and, as the previous poster mentioned, go by fit/comfort. Are you handy with a wrench? They all look like 20" wheeled bikes and you may need to do some major disassembly to put it in a suitcase. Have you considered dahon curve? They curve and other 16" wheeled bikes would be easier to put in a suitcase and with minor disassembly (if any).

Getting a new bike is always a fun exercise:).

[CaptainSpalding]

Thanks! Yes, travel a lot meaning I will put the bike in a suitcase or carry it on a train. 15 miles or so mostly on paved road but probably often have cracks and crevices and potholes...an occassional stretch of smooth pavement :) When I am back in America I will exchange the flat pitted roads of China with the hilly smooth roads of the foothills of the Sierra and ....well, I travel about 10,000 miles in America when I go home, from San Fran to Seattle to DC to Colo springs....
None of those bikes is the best for train commuting. There are many bikes with a smaller fold, and which roll while folded, which is desireable for multimode commuting. I'm not saying it can't be done with these bikes, but if I were taking my bike on the train every day I wouldn't pick any of these.

Any of the three of them will fit in a Samsonite hardshell suitcase, but it will require removing both wheels and maybe some other minor disassembly. There are one or two 16 inch folders that can be put in just folded.

None of these bikes is geared particularly well for Sierra foothills. I know some will say that there's plenty of spread on an 8 speed derailleur. If you're a fire breathing youngster, yes. Old guy like me - no.

[Speedo]

Bring the suitcase you plan to put it in when you go to try them out. Verify that you can get it to fit.

Speedo

[pengyou]

Thanks! I have ridden quite a few 20" bikes but never ridden a 16" bike. I am sure the bike is 4"+ shorter, and 2" shorter to get into a suitcase but how are they to ride? Do they have a rear cassette and derailer? I am afraid the derailler would be too close to the ground to be safe or durable.

[lyen]

Hello Pengyou! I'm Chinese in San Francisco. Perhaps we can be good friends when you return to the US. Anyway, I have been to China & Hong Kong many times and I noticed the Dahon bicycles selling in the local bike shop in China are a little cheaper than in the US. One of my friend bought a Dahon Vitesse for $1600 RMB or around $200 USD. The frame is identical to the Helios. I also noticed that your budget is around $200 USD. Will you bring the bike back with you to the US when you return? If so, you have to consider the newly add luggage check-in fee at the airport of $50 USD in addition to any oversize charges. Practically, I would suggest to get the lightest model. Because only the lightest bike is worth upgrading. In fact, I currently own a Dahon Helios, Roo El, Speed Pro, Cadenza, Brompton M3L, and a couple full frame size bikes. Every single bike really has its characteristic. I have to admit personal favorite folder is still a Brompton because its frame is very stiff although it is on the heavier weight (28lbs) but I use it the most for short trips due to the folded size & convient. My second favorite folder is the Dahon Cadenza. The Cadenza is the fastest because of the wheel diameter is bigger with the least rolling resistance. It's even faster than the Speed Pro when the same energy is applied to the pedals. You can PM me & I can tell you in Chinese. :)

[pengyou]

Thanks! What about this airfare stuff? Yes, I am shooting for as light as possible for that reason. I was toying around with the idea of 16" wheels but my friends have told me that they are not very comfortable on anything but really smooth roads.

[cooker]

Are you planning to bike and take the train on the same commute (mixed mode commuting), or take the train to a different city and stay there a few days and just use the bike there?

[pengyou]

Mostly travel to a city and then use the bike to putz around while I am in that city...but that city could be a village...my destination could be as much as 20 miles from the trailway station.

[cooker]

If you plan to ride part way, pack up the bike and hop on a train, you'll have to somehow lug the suitcase or carrying case along on the bike or trail it, and you'll need a bike that folds quickly and easily into its case without too much disassembly.

[awetmore]

You don't need a full suitcase for most train travel (but this depends on the train system). No case or a soft case are both reasonable options.

I like the Dahon soft case which folds back into it's own little pouch. I don't own a Dahon but I've used their case with my Swift Folder and Bike Fridays. The bag for my Bike Friday Tikit is also nice because it is integrated into the bike.

I've taken my bike on the train half a dozen times and have never used the suitcase. I do use the suitcase when flying.

[lyen]

Hello again Pengyou! The airfare stuff I am talking about is anything luggage to check-in at the airport when you return to the US may cost you $50 USD a piece. I believe you will at least check-in two big luggages since 2 is the maximum allow & most people from China bring as many things as they can when to go abroad. So be prepare some extra cash with you (most likely $100 USD extra) at the airport. You might want to ask your travel agent for more info.

Let back to your topic, I have traveled via trains in China from Shenzhen to GuangZhou, GuangZhou to Hong Kong. There is no way you can put the bike above your head in the upper bin. So the smallest bike would benefit you the most from it even if the train is not crowded with people. A 16" wheel size bike would definitely helps in terms of size & weight. If I were you in your case but with only $200 USD budget, I would get a Dahon Curve. I noticed there are even 14" wheel size Dahon bikes in China but to me it is too small & difficult to find the kind of tires I want. The Dahon Curve only has 3 speed but it is really enough. I know because I ride my Brompton M3L with only 3 speed in hilly San Francisco city. My trick to go up steep hill is simply to ride either in stand up mode or ride in S pattern (snake pattern in Chinese if you know what I mean). If you have extra money for upgrade, change the front crank with a smaller one (with less cogs) so you can attack steeper hills with less energy. Your friend told you 16" wheels are not comfortable is only partially true. It all depends of the type of tires and pressure inside the tires. Maxxis Hookworm tire is a popular 16" size tire in China. You get easily get very comfortable by getting yourself those infamous Chinese brand bicycle seat with 2 or 3 huge & tall springs (I would not called them saddle since they are huge). I forgot the name for it, but their original & fake brands look & feel the same. Those big seat are kinda of like the Brooks saddle except the material uses & quality of course.

The other thing I am sure you would want is a passenger seat which is not available in the US. You need one to carry things like water, extra girl friends, etc. for your 20 miles long ride. :lol:

[jur]

I was toying around with the idea of 16" wheels but my friends have told me that they are not very comfortable on anything but really smooth roads.And your friends might be wrong... (http://members.iinet.net.au/~jdekter/lakesentr2008/lakesentr2008.html)

[Lalato]

Jur, that photolog makes me want to go out and buy a mini today!

--sam

[CaptainSpalding]

Jur, I really enjoyed those pictures. What a beautiful ride. And you certainly dispel the myth that 16" wheels can't be used on the trail. What you imply, though, by posting in this context only a link and no expanation, is that a bike with 16" wheels is just as comfortable as a bike with 20" wheels or larger. There's nothing about those photos to indicate that your ride was comfortable. One can cross the Atlantic on a luxury liner, or one can sail across single-handedly on a dinghy. Both are possible. To different people each can be fun. But I assure you only one is comfortable. I would not choose a 16" wheeled bike for that ride. Not because I couldn't do it. I'm sure I could. But the extra effort required would take away from other aspects of the ride.

Pengyou, there are many factors which affect the relative comfort of a bike. Sure, the road surface is a big part of it. Tires also make a big difference. A bike with 16" Big Apple tires is going to be just as comfortable or even more so than a bike with 20" Stelvios. Suspension also makes a big difference. It remains, though, that it takes a marginally shallower pothole to stop a bike with 16" wheels than 20" wheels. My advice is to ride around the pothole. If you are on a street that is so badly broken that you can't ride around one pothole without hitting another, it doesn't matter if you have 16" wheels or 20" wheels.

The bottom line though is that there is a compromise to be made for folded size vs. ride quality. Unless you are able to test ride the bike, it's prudent to assume that the smaller the fold, the less comfortable the bike (saddles and bars being removed from the equation.) If anyone tells you differently, their opinion should include a reference to two particular bikes. It's up to you to prioritize folded size and ride quality for yourself.

[jur]

Jur, I really enjoyed those pictures. What a beautiful ride.

Thanks! :)

And you certainly dispel the myth that 16" wheels can't be used on the trail. What you imply, though, by posting in this context only a link and no expanation, is that a bike with 16" wheels is just as comfortable as a bike with 20" wheels or larger.you're right, to a certain extent I suppose I do imply that.

I am beginning to lose faith in myself here. With all honesty, I can't say that the Mini is less comfortable because of wheel size. My Raleigh 20 is the most comfortable bike I have and have ridden, it's like a Caddillac with plush front suspension and Big Apple in the back and Thudbuster and softish pumped tyres.

The Mini is less comfortable because it has less suspension stuff and a hard narrow saddle, but it has the rubber rear suspension that smoothes out bumps, and I don't pump the tyres very hard, say 40psi. It also has slightly flexy seat post and handlepost. These also isolate the rider from road harshness. But I cannot say that I attribute discomfort to the smaller wheels. All the stuff that gives and flexes between my butt and the road determines discomfort/harshness, and of that there is very little left over.

There is something else I thought of earlier today as I was riding to work. Maybe my riding style has changed so much that tyre size has become irrelevant: Perhaps I unconciously lift myself very small amounts when handling bumps to soften the impact, and give very small jerks on the bars to reduce impact there too. If this is the case, then I would be a very poor judge of how different bikes stack up because my riding style make the differences irrelevant.

I am unsure at this stage. What I am sure of, is that the wheel size is very unimportant in the sizes that I'm using.

One place where the small wheel has a huge disadvantage as I found on that same ride, the smaller wheels sink deeper into loose sand or gravel, requiring much more effort to ride through.