Fifty Plus (50+) - Road Rage, Old Men, and Be Careful Out There

With the inspiring adventures of Will playing out on these pages it almost feels wrong to post such a mundane one as this but here goes:


So I am on my regular route headed north following the river to my right. This route is very peaceful, no access roads from the river side, slow and considerate traffic, lots of runners, walkers, and cyclists. I am in the aerobars cruising along at 20 mph as I approach an intersecting road from my left. There is a pickup approaching the stop sign. And suddenly I realize:
a. He is not going to stop
b. He is not going to make the turn in his lane
c. He is completely in my lane head on
d. He is talking on his cell phone and looking in his lap
e. I am bailing out into the grass to my right
Since I don’t have a horn on my bike I hollar at him to watch where he is going. Luckily his window is down, he hears me and cuts back toward the centerline just as I am at his window. I tell him to get off the _____ phone.

His reaction is to slam on the brakes, get out of his truck and scream at me for having the temerity to hollar at him. He is screaming so loudly that people are coming out of their houses to see what happened. I slowly pedaled back and asked him if he was on the phone causing him to nearly end my day.

“Listen old man, you don’t live around here and it is non of your business if I was on the phone. “ I was standing now next to another pickup that had pulled up. That driver and I just shook our heads, and I left. Maybe I need to get a really loud horn to alert drivers that they are on the wrong side of the road and about to put a scratch on their fender with my body parts.

There is no accounting for that kind of gross ignorance and stupidity. And if you had a horn and used it he probably would have yelled about that too. Glad you weren't hurt.

Glad you weren't hurt. There are more of them out there and their numbers are increasing every day.

700 dead cyclists in one year. 45,000 dead motorists in one year. We take it so much for granted that It may never change. I don't even know who to complain to any more.

Not likely, but just maybe you're interaction will give this guy pause next time he's thinking about firing up the cell phone while driving. On the other hand, I have a good friend who is a decent guy and works as a health care provider. Yet he talks on the cell phone while driving, doesn't wear a seat belt and often drives with his knees on the steering wheel and not his hands. And he's a cyclist!

I've had a few close calls (in my car) with drivers holding cell phones to their ears, just one hand available on the steering wheel, and they end up swinging wide in a turn. Another good case for prohibiting cell phones while driving. I drive a stick-shift car, so in non-freeway conditions I'm not in the least tempted to try to talk & drive!

In your incident, I've sometimes find that people try to defend themselves even when they know they're in the wrong. He might have been a bit shaken up at almost causing an accident, but took his anger out at you since you were an easy target. I would hope that he later thought about it and realized that it was his fault. I think I've done this too -- yelled at a kid for almost running in front of my car, when I was actually pissed at myself for not being more aware and seeing him sooner.

If you look up JAM in the cyclists dictionary you'll find a picture of him posted as a part of the description of that term.

I have a good friend who is a decent guy and works as a health care provider. Yet he talks on the cell phone while driving, doesn't wear a seat belt and often drives with his knees on the steering wheel and not his hands. And he's a fool!

Fixed it for ya. It's one thing to not care about your own safety (no seat belts), but when you imperil others on the road (or anywhere) with stupid behavior, that crosses the line. No offense meant to you, but with friends like this, who needs enemies?

Fixed it for ya. It's one thing to not care about your own safety (no seat belts), but when you imperil others on the road (or anywhere) with stupid behavior, that crosses the line. No offense meant to you, but with friends like this, who needs enemies?

I hear ya. If we're going to a cycling event, either I drive or find a way not to drive with him. But I feel sorry for his poor wife--and for anyone who ends up in his way.

Did you jot down the plate number? A call to the police describing the incident, perhaps including the information that he might have been drinking, could be useful.

Paul

Paul,
I did not think about getting his tag number until later. He was just a working man on his way to a job. The trailer behind his truck even had his business logo on it and I did not get that. Frankly, after my heart rate slowed down, I was just pi_____ off. I am glad that the other driver arrived and sat there, it kind of defused the whole thing. This route is such a pretty place, the houses are along the river and those living there are keeping a quiet atmosphere. I will be back again tomorrow.

Paul, He was just a working man on his way to a job.

I hope to hell he loses it if that's what it takes to gets him off the road.

Paul

Paul,
I did not think about getting his tag number until later. He was just a working man on his way to a job. The trailer behind his truck even had his business logo on it and I did not get that. Frankly, after my heart rate slowed down, I was just pi_____ off. I am glad that the other driver arrived and sat there, it kind of defused the whole thing. This route is such a pretty place, the houses are along the river and those living there are keeping a quiet atmosphere. I will be back again tomorrow.

Your right, its a beautiful place to ride. I know that most folks become accustomed to the weather there but does it present any great difficulties for bikers?

He was just a working man on his way to a job.

I have a job. I drive to it. I don't drive unsafely. Your point?

...but just maybe you're interaction will give this guy pause next time he's thinking about firing up the cell phone while driving.

+1 It's pretty unlikely that this guy is pure evil, and despite his posturing, he is likely to be thinking about this incident as much as you are. Gald you made the right moves to get out of his way, and were not injured. Your story is another good example of why, IMHO, cell phone use while driving should be banned and the ban strickly enforced.

I'm glad you weren't hurt.

It's difficult to always be prepared to take control of a situation and conversation and direct it in the way it should go. Some of us pick it up at our day jobs and have opportunities to develop and refine the tools so that they appear very natural, buy us some time to think, and helps put the other person either in their place or begins to divert them from an undesirable path.

Cops and Comedians are examples of professions where the good ones develop these skills.

Have you ever seen a good comedian? Do you think that's the first time he/she told that joke?

Have you ever seen a good Cop take control of a tense situation and resolve it? Do you think that's the first time the words, phrases, actions were taken?

Handling these kinds of situations is like learning to tell a really good, really complicated joke that includes audience participation that you include in the routine.

I learned this in Army BCT and the various NCO Academies you have to go through to get promotions. The biggest part of the population doesn't realize that Cops, Comedians, Magicians, etc, are working from a script that they have developed over time that first sets the parameters or tone of the scene then progresses from one predictable response to the next.

This post is too long already so I'll try to wrap it up:

"His reaction is to slam on the brakes, get out of his truck and scream at me for having the temerity to hollar at him"

Reply in an even but projected voice:

"You ran me off the road because you weren't paying attention to your driving. Is that your truck and is "BR-549" your correct tag number?"

Wait for response:

It can go a number of directions that you will have to manage, but you will want to stay away from questions that require sympathy or concern from what may be a sociopath. "I slowly pedaled back and asked him if he was on the phone causing him to nearly end my day." This is a submissive response requesting empathy from an obvious bully. You allowed him to set the tone and control the situation.

The first "unofficial" rule for dealing with strangers in what could become hazardous situations is to "Be Polite, Be Courteous, and have a plan to kill everyone you meet."

When somebody slams on their brakes and gets out of a vehicle because I have just told them to get off the phone and drive is to be prepared for everything from "Are you hurt?" to "I'm gonna kill you".

So you'll either have to learn to hold your tongue, or learn to work a crowd. You can't always count on a JAM to just drive away after you give them driving advice.:innocent:

People in cars these days just feel way too isolated from their surroundings.
I call it the SUV Syndrome. These things aren't automobiles, they're freakin' Living rooms on wheels.
Lincoln even had an add to that effect a while back.

Reminds me of a story that happened to me a couple of years ago. I was driving my car looking for a parking space, I spotted one up ahead so I turn on my directional signal pull, up to the front car so I can back into the spot in a paralel parking exercise when the guy behind me comes right up behind. I sit there and look at him so he backs up, with out looking and hits the car behind him. I had no idea any of this went on, I park in the spot, put my money in the meter and start walking toward the store I wanted to patronize when I see this guy and a lady on the sidewalk, the guy starts yelling at me, saying it was my fault he hit the car behind him and that he will never be a nice guy and back up for anyone again. I just looked at him and shook my head and walked away. Some people don't want to be responsible for anything, blame it on something or someone else seems to be the motto of the these days.

There is no accounting for that kind of gross ignorance and stupidity.

Yup, just let it go. You'll have your day sometime. :thumb:

... Brad

"You ran me off the road because you weren't paying attention to your driving. Is that your truck and is "BR-549" your correct tag number?"

Great idea. I had an incident like the one mentioned above and I was not quite that calm -- I did advise the driver that I knew his address (the incident happened right in front of his house) and that if he ever killed me going down his street I'd make sure my widow ended up owning his house.



The first "unofficial" rule for dealing with strangers in what could become hazardous situations is to "Be Polite, Be Courteous, and have a plan to kill everyone you meet."

Much better than losing your cool, as I did!

I learned a long time ago; there are just some hills not worth dying over... My approach is to avoid confrontation, move on, and be glad I didn't get hurt or killed. You can't teach these sorts a lesson, and challenging people in such situations is like bringing a pocket knife to a gun fight. That doesn't mean you can't write down their tag # and report them.

Your story is another good example of why, IMHO, cell phone use while driving should be banned and the ban strickly enforced.

:deadhorse2:

And right after they ban cell phone use while driving, they should ban tuning the radio, adjusting the A/C or heater, setting the cruise control, talking to a passenger, etc., etc., etc. And, no, I don't talk on my cell phone while driving (or riding my bike) because I don't think it is appropriate behavior while driving.

Peoples attitudes about engaging in distracting activities while driving need to change dramatically before any kind of legislation will have a snowball's chance in hlel of doing any good.

Sorry for the hijack.

In your incident, I've sometimes find that people try to defend themselves even when they know they're in the wrong.

Change "even" to "ESPECIALLY"...

The first "unofficial" rule for dealing with strangers in what could become hazardous situations is to "Be Polite, Be Courteous, and have a plan to kill everyone you meet."



Actually, when you have a plan to kill everyone you meet, it's much easier to be polite and courteous.

I learned a long time ago; there are just some hills not worth dying over... My approach is to avoid confrontation, move on, and be glad I didn't get hurt or killed. You can't teach these sorts a lesson, and challenging people in such situations is like bringing a pocket knife to a gun fight. That doesn't mean you can't write down their tag # and report them.

That is the best method of course. :thumb:

Some of us just have a habit of sounding off when things get too close. Often it will help alert a driver that there is a problem and it gives a fellow a split second or a couple of feet to open up a gap and avoid contact.

I'm no doctor (and I don't play one on the internet) but I think some of us are hard wired to bark when we are threatened. I'm afraid I am one of them. If someone wants to step out of their vehicle and have a word with me they give up a lot in weight and speed. I'm 200+ and you'd better leave a door open and the motor running.

And I never take a knife to a gun fight. :notamused:

Actually, when you have a plan to kill everyone you meet, it's much easier to be polite and courteous.

Word.

:deadhorse2:

And right after they ban cell phone use while driving, they should ban tuning the radio, adjusting the A/C or heater, setting the cruise control, talking to a passenger, etc., etc., etc. And, no, I don't talk on my cell phone while driving (or riding my bike) because I don't think it is appropriate behavior while driving.

Peoples attitudes about engaging in distracting activities while driving need to change dramatically before any kind of legislation will have a snowball's chance in hlel of doing any good.

Sorry for the hijack.

Couldn't disagree with you more. I suspect the basis of your reasoning is that it would be difficult to pass legislation or enforce if it was passed. However, I find this to be an unacceptable reason for not at least making the attempt. When people do things that put others at risk (and there is more and more evidence the cell phones and driving do this it seems irresponsible to not at least make the effort.

I agree, BSLV, but Skipper has a point, which is that drivers have generally become so accustomed to multitasking (and getting away with it), that it's not much of a leap to go from tuning in a radio to talking on a cell phone (or even worse, texting). There are decades of bad driving behaviors associated with attention diverting activities, and just focusing on cell phone use, while extremely urgent, isn't going to cut the mustard in the long run.

Easy solution: Remove Sig P232 from handlebar bag and fire warning shot through driver's window.

I actually carry a Sig when I'm commuting. You might ask why. Simple. The Beretta is too heavy.

Couldn't disagree with you more. I suspect the basis of your reasoning is that it would be difficult to pass legislation or enforce if it was passed. However, I find this to be an unacceptable reason for not at least making the attempt. When people do things that put others at risk (and there is more and more evidence the cell phones and driving do this it seems irresponsible to not at least make the effort.

CT has a cell phone ban. As near as I can tell it has no effect on cell phones in drivers hands. What it does is provide a placebo effect for the voters, convincing some that they are doing all that can be done. The only cell phone bans that work so far as I can tell are the jammers installed in some theaters and restaurants.
To make a serious dent in cell phone use, a large number of citizens have to walk away from inappropriate cell phone users.........ie if a driver does it, don't ride with them again and explain polietly why you won't. When dealing with moral problems some must take the high ground, painful though it may be. Look at the campaigns waged for the wearing of seatbelts. Which do you think has more effect, the "click it or whoop whoop ticket" or the father standing in the driveway reading a newspaper untill both his daughters fasten their seatbelts. IMHO "I love you, do it so you will be safe wins hands down".

I agree, BSLV, but Skipper has a point, which is that drivers have generally become so accustomed to multitasking (and getting away with it), that it's not much of a leap to go from tuning in a radio to talking on a cell phone (or even worse, texting). There are decades of bad driving behaviors associated with attention diverting activities, and just focusing on cell phone use, while extremely urgent, isn't going to cut the mustard in the long run.

I think you and maddmaxx are right on point with the distracted drivers. Many activities don't take much concentration, but the cell phone makes you put your mind into the phone conversation, this is deadly.

So just how illegal would it be to put a cell phone jammer in my wedge bag? :innocent:

I am not smart enough or experienced enough to give advise to situations such as this.
Our Tour Leader Mike Munk is both.
He advised us NOT to confront or antagonize people who do such things. We had a number of situations almost as bad as yours. I observed fellow bikers acting hostile toward the drivers. In no situation did I observe a desired outcome.

I just assume that the roads are full of incompetent or distracted drivers and bike very defensively.

The situation described by the OP sounds challenging however.

Couldn't disagree with you more. I suspect the basis of your reasoning is that it would be difficult to pass legislation or enforce if it was passed. However, I find this to be an unacceptable reason for not at least making the attempt. When people do things that put others at risk (and there is more and more evidence the cell phones and driving do this it seems irresponsible to not at least make the effort.

Disagree all you want and suspect whatever you like. I did not say we should not ban cell phone use while driving. I agree with your statement that it would be difficult to pass legislation or enforce if it was passed. I suspect that a lot of people will not obey a law for fear of being fined if caught breaking the law. They will simply go on breaking the law openly or possibly try to conceal their activity, which could be even more dangerous. They will be more likely to obey a law if they come to agree with the reason for enacting the law and believe that the law was enacted for their own good.

I stand by my statement that peoples attitudes about engaging in distracting activities while driving need to change dramatically before any kind of legislation will have a snowball's chance in hlel of doing any good. Not making a concerted effort to change those attitudes would be as irresponsible, if not more so, than not trying the legislative approach.

Disagree all you want and suspect whatever you like. I did not say we should not ban cell phone use while driving. I agree with your statement that it would be difficult to pass legislation or enforce if it was passed. I suspect that a lot of people will not obey a law for fear of being fined if caught breaking the law. They will simply go on breaking the law openly or possibly try to conceal their activity, which could be even more dangerous. They will be more likely to obey a law if they come to agree with the reason for enacting the law and believe that the law was enacted for their own good.

I stand by my statement that peoples attitudes about engaging in distracting activities while driving need to change dramatically before any kind of legislation will have a snowball's chance in hlel of doing any good. Not making a concerted effort to change those attitudes would be as irresponsible, if not more so, than not trying the legislative approach.

I typically do.

My kids and I saw an episode of "Mythbusters" where they decided to test whether driving while talking on the phone was really distracting. They had the drivers run an obstacle course, then tested them (a) while engaged in a conversation on the phone and (b) after drinking several drinks.

They actually did worse during the cell phone test than during the drinking test (can't remember how much they drank).

I just assume that the roads are full of incompetent or distracted drivers and bike very defensively.


I don't assume. I know they are.

“Listen old man, you don’t live around here and it is non of your business if I was on the phone.
Many times during an exchange of words with a motorist following an incident, I've been called an "old man".:lol:
Feeling cornered by my rapier like wit, I suppose the "old man" insult is a pathetic attempt to save face. .:roflmao2:

I hope to hell he loses it if that's what it takes to gets him off the road.
Paul

It wouldn't matter to me if it was Queen Elizabeth on her way to a knighting. I would grab my cell, call 911, report having almost been hit by a driver who is probably drunk and was driving recklessly and is now aggressive and threatening, give the tag number and a good description of the vehicle - all before even saying a word to the "driver." If I said anything at all it would be, "You aren't going to leave the scene of an accident where bodily injury occurred, are you?" Period.

If someone wants to step out of their vehicle and have a word with me they give up a lot in weight and speed. I'm 200+ and you'd better leave a door open and the motor running.



LOL. I have had the one-time occasion to look into the panicked eyes of a driver who got out of his car to see this 200 lber coming at him swinging a helmet. I had bigger balls than brains back then.

You might have been lucky to have been where people could come out of their houses to see what was going on. A friend of a prev co-worker was riding in a rural area, and was confronted at a stop by a couple of jerks, and got into a fight (they took the first swing, as the story goes). Of course, 2 vs 1, he lost. Didn't get the plate, and nothing ever happened after that. But I wouldn't want to be the one to confront him now, hear there is "protection" in the jersey pocket now!

Driving Cell Phone Zombies are, of course, a regular nuisance. Over the years I have designated certain activities in which I simply will not get angry no matter what the provocation. Bicycling, motorcycling and kayaking certainly come with frequent enough provocation. I am so glad I stopped letting the slobs disturb my happiness. As far as the very real danger that one of them will kill me with his out-of control vehicle, I see it as a kind of game. It is a real pleasure to anticipate some bonehead's foolishness or at least react quickly enough to be able to make a smooth evasion, like I am avoiding some dog waste.

My girlfriends and I are all 50+ except for one. Yesterday we were riding down by the Embarcadero. This is a place where all the tourist go. It's like a large parking lot and it does have arrows pointing in only one direction for the cars. Hundreds of cyclist use this area to ride around and police have no problem with it since everyone knows that there are people walking, bicycles, pedicabs etc.
We were heading back and on the far right going in the opposite direction of cars. Cars will pull in from off the street to get a parking spot, but we are always very watchful and go slow. One guy in a black Corvette decided he didn't like the 5 of us ladies riding in the opposite direction and deliberately headed for us in his car. He almost hit one of the ladies and she was forced to stop. He was yelling at us that it was a one way street (it's NOT a street) and he was trying to park. There were no open spaces where he could have parked where we were. I suppose if he keeps coming back to the Embarcadero he will try and take out all the cyclist around there. This is the first time I have ever encountered such behavior from a car in all the years I have been going down there. Maybe he was just having a bad day (THE JERK!).

I guess I should have put this post in the Safety forum but here it is and I appreciate all of the comments. A couple of my thoughts after another day.
1. The first time that I sounded off at the point of conflict actually worked because he heard me, looked up and reacted to get his vehicle back on his side of the road. I would do that again. This is the point where I would honk my horn if I were in my car or on my motorcycle. I don't have a horn on my bicycle so I do often say something to get a driver's attention.
2. As we passed and I was in the grass i again said something to the driver about getting off of his phone. That was a reaction that I should have swallowed, I was only a couple of feet from his window at that time. It did not add anything positive to the situation.
3. I should have just proceeded on my way and let it go. I am fortunate that I was alert to this guys actions, I had a place to bail out of the impact zone, and took it.

I had bigger balls than brains back then.

It's a Neil thing.

Places and times to avoid.
7-9 am near middle schools
7-9 am near a tim hortons resturant
3-5pm especially on fridays and especially on main arteries out of metropolitn areas.
People to watch for: Folks over 60. For some bizarre reason (because we may run out of life before we get there? Because the second cup of coffee just hit the large intestines and jostled that bowl of chili you had last night??)and it's usually we guys, are always in a damn hurry.
Women in their late 30s thru late 40s driving large SUVs or minivans. (refer back to places and times to avoid)
Guys in their late 20s thru early 40s in pick up trucks on rural highways. Biker whacking has moved right up there with mailbox bashing.
And folks over 80. These gentle creatures have a view of the road that extends approximately 30' in front of their vehicles and 0' to either side of said vehicle.