Road Bike Racing - Analysis Paralysis Prohibiting Performance?

I experienced a strange phenomenon a couple of weeks ago. I was just curious if anyone else has experienced this or maybe I just had a banner day...

We took my daughter to a B-day party and I had some unplanned chocolate cake and ice cream. It was delicious. However, it put me over my calorie plan for the day. We got back from the party and between "events" of the day I had about an hour to ride. I mapped out a 13 mile loop starting at my house on roads I had ridden a lot. I'd classify the route as flat to slightly rolling...maybe a couple hundred feet of climbing and some false flat kind of stuff. I'm usually about an 18 mph guy on this stuff I would guess.

Anyway, I started out the ride and my garmin battery died. No computer. However, I marked the time that it went out and estimated how long it usually takes me to get to that point (I ride there a lot and I actually have data to make a pretty good estimate). When I was done with the ride I ended up with a 23 mph avg. Then I started doubting my clock marks (like maybe I was really lollygagging that first mile so the time was actually much longer). So then, I went and mapped the route from the place that I marked the time to the finish. That average speed was actually 24 mph including stops & slow downs for a few intersections. Needless to say I was shocked. This is way out of my current expected performance range. Plus I felt so good and strong on the ride. So, next step is to do the same route again at an opportune time (that doesn't conflict with my training schedule) and have the computer working and make it "official".

So the questions...

1. Is it possible I'm limiting my performance with the computer? Like looking at my heart rate and psyching myself out and subconsciously backing off a bit because it looks "too high"?

2. Has anyone ever experienced this?

3. Maybe I just happened to have a break through in my training? I have been setting personal bests for power (as meager as they are) consistenlty over the last several months as well).

4. Maybe I should just put tape over the friggin' computer and ride based on PE?

5. Maybe chocolate cake & vanilla ice cream = rocket fuel? If so, I should eat it more often. :D

Just curious. Thanks!

I experienced a strange phenomenon a couple of weeks ago. I was just curious if anyone else has experienced this or maybe I just had a banner day...

We took my daughter to a B-day party and I had some unplanned chocolate cake and ice cream. It was delicious. However, it put me over my calorie plan for the day. We got back from the party and between "events" of the day I had about an hour to ride. I mapped out a 13 mile loop starting at my house on roads I had ridden a lot. I'd classify the route as flat to slightly rolling...maybe a couple hundred feet of climbing and some false flat kind of stuff. I'm usually about an 18 mph guy on this stuff I would guess.

Anyway, I started out the ride and my garmin battery died. No computer. However, I marked the time that it went out and estimated how long it usually takes me to get to that point (I ride there a lot and I actually have data to make a pretty good estimate). When I was done with the ride I ended up with a 23 mph avg. Then I started doubting my clock marks (like maybe I was really lollygagging that first mile so the time was actually much longer). So then, I went and mapped the route from the place that I marked the time to the finish. That average speed was actually 24 mph including stops & slow downs for a few intersections. Needless to say I was shocked. This is way out of my current expected performance range. Plus I felt so good and strong on the ride. So, next step is to do the same route again at an opportune time (that doesn't conflict with my training schedule) and have the computer working and make it "official".

So the questions...

1. Is it possible I'm limiting my performance with the computer? Like looking at my heart rate and psyching myself out and subconsciously backing off a bit because it looks "too high"?

2. Has anyone ever experienced this?

3. Maybe I just happened to have a break through in my training? I have been setting personal bests for power (as meager as they are) consistenlty over the last several months as well).

4. Maybe I should just put tape over the friggin' computer and ride based on PE?

5. Maybe chocolate cake & vanilla ice cream = rocket fuel? If so, I should eat it more often. :D

Just curious. Thanks!

Bingo.

But don't go crazy with it.

When I did my first few races, I did them by feel since I didn't have a computer.
When I went out to train after that race, I went harder than ever before. When I put a computer on after that, I was faster than before.

You might be limiting yourself. Try not to look at anything when you ride for a while, and look at the numbers when you get home or something. See if it makes a difference.

The wind could also have been in your favor that day :)

When I did my first few races, I did them by feel since I didn't have a computer.
When I went out to train after that race, I went harder than ever before. When I put a computer on after that, I was faster than before.

You might be limiting yourself. Try not to look at anything when you ride for a while, and look at the numbers when you get home or something. See if it makes a difference.

The wind could also have been in your favor that day :)

Yeah, I thought about that. It was a pretty calm day. It's been so darn windy this spring it seems. Maybe I was just so used to bucking the wind that on a calm day I just started flying! :D

I think I'm going to try to not look at the computer so much while riding. See what happens.

Here's when I look at my computer (all other times I ignore it or obscure it with tape):
- When doing an interval in training
- On a recovery ride to make sure my average power is within acceptable range
- During a time trial if I have specific pacing goals
- In a breakaway to make sure I stay out of "the red zone"

24mph including stops and intersections for a "usually 18mph kinda guy" would have me thinking that you made a mistake or two in your calculations or estimations. 24mph average solo is really cookin'.

24mph including stops and intersections for a "usually 18mph kinda guy" would have me thinking that you made a mistake or two in your calculations or estimations. 24mph average solo is really cookin'.

Not out of the realm of possiblilty. Though I checked and double checked. I certainly could have had a brain fart...or I hit a time warp somewhere. Though I have kept 22mph avg on a perfectly flat 10 mile TT test on my computer trainer using my weight+40 pounds for resistance. It's just that this is the "fastest" outside ride I've ever done (my outside rides are usually longer though). I just figured the little bit of rolling would have slowed me down a little more.

That's why I am going to try and confirm that number with the computer in the near future (although I may put some masking tape on it and I'll have to eat some cake and ice cream an hour before my ride just to keep the testing conditions consistent) :D

Maybe I'll use that route as a periodic time trial testing route once I get outside in the morning again.

A very skeptical rider asked me if I found my powermeter inhibiting my power, i.e. exactly what you suggested. I told him I don't use the power to limit myself, instead I use it to learn what I did as well as see how I feel at such-and-such power/heartrate.

I have a hard, hard time training at over 160 bpm (but I can train for a long time at 158 bpm avg), but in races I can typically go at about 165-166 bpm avg. I've done minutes at over 170 bpm when in training I rarely hit over 170 for more than 20-30 seconds. This isn't something I consciously do, it's something I see when I look at the data after the ride.

I think you had a good ride, lots of sugar (maybe you're limiting your intake too much normally? You mentioned "calorie count"), and that's that. If I don't eat enough I ride real slow. Like 12-14 mph, like crawling. I'd try eating a bit more (carbs especially) before the harder rides and doing the calorie count thing before easy rides. When I say "before", I mean in the 36 to 12 hours prior. In other words, if you're doing a harder ride Sat PM, then on Friday I'd eat a bit more. If Sunday AM, then eat more on Friday PM to Sat. If I eat more earlier I don't find a huge performance jump, and I can eat very little on the "lite" days. If I eat later than that I don't get a full charge and I weaken significantly in less than 1.5-2 hours.

cdr

A very skeptical rider asked me if I found my powermeter inhibiting my power, i.e. exactly what you suggested. I told him I don't use the power to limit myself, instead I use it to learn what I did as well as see how I feel at such-and-such power/heartrate.

I have a hard, hard time training at over 160 bpm (but I can train for a long time at 158 bpm avg), but in races I can typically go at about 165-166 bpm avg. I've done minutes at over 170 bpm when in training I rarely hit over 170 for more than 20-30 seconds. This isn't something I consciously do, it's something I see when I look at the data after the ride.

I think you had a good ride, lots of sugar (maybe you're limiting your intake too much normally? You mentioned "calorie count"), and that's that. If I don't eat enough I ride real slow. Like 12-14 mph, like crawling. I'd try eating a bit more (carbs especially) before the harder rides and doing the calorie count thing before easy rides. When I say "before", I mean in the 36 to 12 hours prior. In other words, if you're doing a harder ride Sat PM, then on Friday I'd eat a bit more. If Sunday AM, then eat more on Friday PM to Sat. If I eat more earlier I don't find a huge performance jump, and I can eat very little on the "lite" days. If I eat later than that I don't get a full charge and I weaken significantly in less than 1.5-2 hours.

cdr

That is a great point. I didn't mention that I am training hard, I am kind of riding the fence between increasing speed & power and losing weight. I am sure I am not doing either to its greatest potential but I being successful on both fronts. I can especially feel this in the morning when I train before I eat (can't help it 'cause I'm not gettin' up any earlier :D). Some days I just die. Other days I'm ok. I did notice a bit of a pattern where the "bad" days were after I had a lower caloric intake the day before. Makes sense. So I have started making sure my deficit the day before the "hard" workout isn't too great. And it has seemed to help. I look forward to the day when I am at the weight I intend to stay at and can really focus on the strength and endurance without so much focus on the weight.

Thanks for the insight. It was helpful.

:)

I will double the impression that 24 is REALLY cooking solo and couple that with even a few stops? Data Seems fuzzy for an 18 mph kind of guy. Not outside of the realm of possibility - 22mph. 100+ watt boost in FTP? = 24mph

I will double the impression that 24 is REALLY cooking solo and couple that with even a few stops? Data Seems fuzzy for an 18 mph kind of guy. Not outside of the realm of possibility - 22mph. 100+ watt boost in FTP? = 24mph

I will try to recreate it with computer when I get a chance. I will also post the results when I do, either way. I don't mind looking foolish once in a while. It's sort of fun...

:D

JohnKScott first of all you are thinking too hard ok? Relax. Take it easy :)

Seriously imho get rid of the computers. I did years ago and ever since I did I have been getting much better results in races then I ever had before. Learn to listen to your body. Robots cannot tell you how you feel. And yes ... never ever deny yourself a piece of chocolate cake with ice cream ;)

Thanks for the perspective. I'm relaxed. Just curious. I do agree with you to an extent. I actually have been getting more in tune with listening to my body. I think that's very important. I'm just too much of a geek and like seeing the numbers.

:geek: <-------me

I sold my Powertap in December because the fork on my mountain bike blew up, and I needed to fix it. Its actually an extremely freeing experience, I ride how I feel, and keep track of time with my watch. The interesting thing is that I haven't gotten slower, and my race results are better than last year.

last summer my computer broke and i either had no money to get a new one, or just wanted to wait until christmas for someone else to buy me one. either way, i think i rode better without it. i found more joy on the bike. not looking down and seeing 14mph while busting your ass into a headwind is nice. without the computer the ride is a good fast ride no matter how fast i was going.

oh, and i logged my miles using google earth which gave me some geography lessons

I will double the impression that 24 is REALLY cooking solo and couple that with even a few stops? Data Seems fuzzy for an 18 mph kind of guy. Not outside of the realm of possibility - 22mph. 100+ watt boost in FTP? = 24mph


24mph including stops and intersections for a "usually 18mph kinda guy" would have me thinking that you made a mistake or two in your calculations or estimations. 24mph average solo is really cookin'.

Winnars!!

Ok...I told you I would report back when I re-tested and that I don't mind looking foolish :D

Did the same route today except that I marked it out to have at least a little bit of warm up and to start a TT lap to and from a certain point to be about 10 miles. Funny thing...I'm jinxed on this route. I hit the start/stop button instead of the lap button :lol:. So I lost 2.26 miles and 5:54 of data. However, I had enough data to recreate the distance and time on the route ;).

Results were a little disappointing, but still, not bad considering where I started. Route included a couple slow downs for intersections...

[que Rocky Fanfare]

But first...the bike & motor...I'm about 40 lbs lighter now :lol:

http://johnkscott.com/images/onbikesmall.JPG

The stage...

10 miles. Flat to rolling. Steepest grade 5.1%. Avg grade .3%. Total ascent 250 ft. Winds S at 7 mph.

(gonna fly now...)

The result...

(flyin' high now...)

10.08 miles - 29:49 - avg speed 20.3 mph

(sound of needle skidding across a record..)

The worthless chart (missing approx 5:54 of info)...

http://johnkscott.com/images/20080605TT.jpg

The SportTracks plugin calculates power. It doesn't seem terribly accurate at moments in time, but it does seem to come in pretty close on avg when compared to http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm when I plug in the numbers so at least I have something to compare from ride to ride (although the windspeed that it pulls in is ALWAYS low).

Anyway, what I can say from all of this is I'm not an 18 mph guy anymore. I'll call myself a 20 mph guy now (at least on this short route). I can see breaking 22 by summer's end and maybe getting to that 24 number if I keep working hard and maybe get a bike where I can get a little more aero :roflmao2:

Anyway, thanks for playing.

P.S. - I still think the cake and ice cream might add on another 1 mph :D

Flat bars to boot? Wow. Ask DrW how much speed dropbars will get you.

Yep. I'm a parachute. Albeit a smaller parachute than I used to be :D

I really really really really really want a new bike. Wife really really really really really really wants wood floors. I'm saving my weekly allowance for one now. With that & Christmas & work paying for half up to $500 I should have the $1400 to get something with a 105 group set in time to throw it on the trainer...

Of course, riding in the drops will gain me very little aerodynamic advantage there :D

Tell to take the floors out of her hobby budget/allowance.

Short of unemployment, a few grand a year on a healthy hobby is peanuts.

Ah yes...but it's for the house you see. That means it's our hobby even though I'm fine with fraying carpet :D

However, wood floors will help with her allergies. So that is, at least. a stronger arguement. :D

If I were you I'd think about getting a really long stem in the interim. It'll stretch you out a bit, let you recruit your glutes for more power, and get you a bit lower on the bike (but not crazy low). Bar ends would help too, the bolt on things at the ends of the bars.

If you feel adventurous cut down the bars. I ride my mountain bike exclusively on the road (so far anyway) and I determine where to cut the bars by sliding everything in as much as possible, see how much grip I need for my hand, add about 1 cm for the bar end clamp, and cut the rest off. My bars are probably 17" wide (?), I cut a couple inches off of each side.

I can get going pretty fast on that bike since it fits pretty well, I use my glutes, and I'm narrower than not with the cut down bars. I spend most of my riding time on the bar ends since they feel the most comfortable. I run a 15cm stem (14cm on my road bike) so it's about the same extension as my road bike.

Best of all the bar ends and stems won't cost you much, and cutting the bars is free.

cdr

At $1400 you should be able to get into some Ultegra...

At $1400 you should be able to get into some Ultegra...

I will be on the lookout. Wait until my "which bike should I get hand wringing thread"

:D

Thanks CDR. Something to look into. It would be nice to get out of the wind a little more.

If I were you I'd think about getting a really long stem in the interim. It'll stretch you out a bit, let you recruit your glutes for more power, and get you a bit lower on the bike (but not crazy low). Bar ends would help too, the bolt on things at the ends of the bars.

If you feel adventurous cut down the bars. I ride my mountain bike exclusively on the road (so far anyway) and I determine where to cut the bars by sliding everything in as much as possible, see how much grip I need for my hand, add about 1 cm for the bar end clamp, and cut the rest off. My bars are probably 17" wide (?), I cut a couple inches off of each side.

I can get going pretty fast on that bike since it fits pretty well, I use my glutes, and I'm narrower than not with the cut down bars. I spend most of my riding time on the bar ends since they feel the most comfortable. I run a 15cm stem (14cm on my road bike) so it's about the same extension as my road bike.

Best of all the bar ends and stems won't cost you much, and cutting the bars is free.

cdr

Thanks again and oh...one more thing. I did put some new grips/barends on there that are much more comfortable after my first longish ride where I couldn't feel my pinky and ring fingers for two days :D. But, yeah...I've been feeling the bars were a little wide and that I might be more comfortable if they were narrower...