Mountain Biking - for you evil imperial fans

introducing the 2013i (http://www.evilbikes.com/2013i_gboxx/2013i.htm).

http://www.evilbikes.com/images/frames/gboxx/gboxxside.jpg

:drool:


I've been looking at that on Pinkbike.. pretty sweet ride. I'm not sure what all that **** on it does, but I'll bet it's gonna be awesome :o

Looks like it's got 2 drive sides. But who'd make a rear derailleur for the left?

Looks like it's got 2 drive sides. But who'd make a rear derailleur for the left?
no derailleurs needed. it's g-boxx (http://www.g-boxx.org/) technology (internal gear box).

I rode with a guy yesterday who was using a 14 speed internal geared hub. It was crazy. One chainring in the front, and basically a singlespeed type setup in the rear. All the gearing and whatnot was within his hub. He ended up tearing the cable out of his hub in a crash tho :p

introducing the 2013i (http://www.evilbikes.com/2013i_gboxx/2013i.htm).

http://www.evilbikes.com/images/frames/gboxx/gboxxside.jpg

MMM G-Boxx.

Any idea how much it's gonna weigh?

Any idea how much it's gonna weigh?

It must surely 'weigh' about $3000?

It must surely 'weigh' about $3000?



Perhaps if you use them there British Pounds!!



:o

Perhaps if you use them there British Pounds!!



:o

That frame looks, um, too radical for the UK. I love the colour of that puppy. Yellow is my bestest bike colour of all time.

That frame looks, um, too radical for the UK. I love the colour of that puppy. Yellow is my bestest bike colour of all time.


I had a yellow F500 that was awesome. Such a great bike... I miss it :(

what a monster...looks like another reason to save some money this year

here's another photo of it built up taken from this year's interbike.

http://bustedspoke.com/Photos/bs2145.jpg

the quote found on the evil site says they aren't expecting it to be in full production for another 10 years... by then i'll probably have enough money to afford one heh.

i like the idea of elevated replaceable chainstays... dunno if they're such a good thing though.

The tire choice on it is interesting ;)

Are they hookworms? Those are good for dirt jumping and urban...so long as it isn't wet. :)

Nah, Michelin Jet S.... kick ass street tires, but I thought I was the only one who used a XC race tire for urban stuff.


:)

OK, I've looked at the link that talks about the G-boxx. I get that youchange gear and that is all done internally in the greyish boxbut how does it give the power to the rear wheel? I don't see any chains or drive belts. Is this also internal and running throught the bolt on chainstay?

OK, I've looked at the link that talks about the G-boxx. I get that youchange gear and that is all done internally in the greyish boxbut how does it give the power to the rear wheel? I don't see any chains or drive belts. Is this also internal and running throught the bolt on chainstay?
the rear is still powered by a chain that runs from the crank set. the second picture i posted of the imperial 2013i isn't a complete build. if you notice, it's missing the pedals, the brakes and the chain. i think it also may be missing the grips, i can't really tell from the picture.

crashing_sux (one of the posters here) put up a picture of his nicolai nucleon, which uses the same g-boxx technology... here's the picture he posted:
http://www.bikeforums.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=8320&stc=1

it can be found in this thread:
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=39174&page=37&pp=15

if you want, you can check out this link on the evilbikes.com site for some more info on the new imperial itself:
http://www.evilbikes.com/2013i_gboxx/2013i.htm

That G-box junk is complicated. That's my only concern. Automatic transmissions are rediculously complicated and I'm sure this one is no different. I like to be able to fix my stuff on the trail if I ever have to... and right now I can fix practically anything on my bike whichI like.

That G-box junk is complicated. That's my only concern. Automatic transmissions are rediculously complicated and I'm sure this one is no different. I like to be able to fix my stuff on the trail if I ever have to... and right now I can fix practically anything on my bike whichI like.

Unless you carry spare deraileurs, shifters, and cables in your camelback it's unlikely you can fix anything on your bike related to shifting as you say, most likely what you mean is that you can get it able to make it home (such as by taking a tweaked deraileur and locking into a single gear).

If that's the case, it's very easy to take a bike with a Rohloff that has had it's shifter ripped off and lock it into a single gear. In fact, as long as you have an 8mm wrench with you (my alien mini-tool has one) you can even shift the bike manually, select the gear you want and then pedal home.

With a setup like the G-boxx or any internal frame mounting like I have on my Nucleon ripping the cables out of the gearbox would be nearly impossible as well.

Another thing that I find funny is that you are so worried about fixing things on the trail, my main concern is not having things to fix on the trail. It sounds similar to when hydraulic discs first came out and everyone worried that they couldn't just replace a cable on the trail. In the long run most people realized that you don't have to, ripping hydraulic cables is not a very common problem, and even if it does happen you still have one brake that will get you home.

In over a year of riding with a Rohloff I've had zero shifting problems. Can you say the same? I am waiting for friends who have deraileur issues all the time. Last time I rode with Maelstrom he ripped his deraileur clean off of his bike, and with no deraileur to control chain tension on a full suspension bike he couldn't even lock the chain into one gear well. Deraileurs are so incredibly fragile I can't believe you are saying this looks like a decent technology but your main concern is it breaking.

And yes, they are complicated inside, but if the shifting mechanism every broke you would still have one gear to get you home. If the whole hub just locked up inside (say someone poured cement in there for some stupid reason) you'd just have a single speed and would still make it home. The technology inside while complex is well tested, it's planetary gears, the same thing in every automatic car you drive around.

How often do you have shifting problems on your automatic transmission car? How often do you have shifitng problems on your bike?

Any idea how much it's gonna weigh?

It should weigh close to what an imperial with a full 27 speed shimano setup would weigh, maybe less. Adding a Rohloff 14 speed to a regular bike adds about a pound of weight, but many parts are not needed when adding a G-boxx style setup which should shave a pound or more off. It also depends on what gearbox they use, the G-boxx standard is meant to accept internal gearboxes from different manufactuers. As an example the new Shimano 8R internal hub weighs a pound less than the Rohloff so there is a pound off the setup right there.

The bike is named a 2013 just so people won't bug Evil asking when they can get one, he doesn't really think it's ten years out. Dave Weagle (the brains behind evil bikes) said he thinks the technology is really 3-5 years out for him, although Nicolai plans to have their new G-boxx bike (Nucleon TFR) out in around a year. Damn I want that new TFR, might have to sell my Nucleon ST and trade up.

For anyone who hasn't seen the other G-boxx bike out there, the Nucleon TFR here's a pic.

This is a seriously bullitproof bike, note how the shift cables run tight to the frame and into the gearbox, kept well out of the way. Check out how they've run the chain inside the chainstays as well eliminating the possibility of getting a branch or something in there to derail or break your chain.

Standover height greatly increased as well, the section of the G-boxx that is where a normal chainring would be is smaller than a 24 tooth chainring and designed to take hard hits. If you want to be even safer you can bolt on a small bashring. Having this much clearance kicks ass when going over rocks and logs.

Maintenance is easy and infrequent. You only have to change the oil once a year in the gearbox. I've done it myself and it's very easy (drain hole on the bottom, fill hole on the top) but if you're really lazy just take it to the shop once a year to get serviced.

Not having your chain pulled side to side means chains don't break either, chains break when being pushed or pulled sideways, they don't break from straight tension. While weighing close to what a bike with a regular drive train would am imporant fact to consider is that the weight is centralized and low.

Hey C_S, is the Nicolai available? What's the MSRP on it?

(Not that I'm planning to get one, just curious)

I really like the way the chain is routed.

I am however curious as to the chain being on the opposite side of a traditional bike. Any reason why they ended up doing that? Seems like now you have to get a special hub with Left hand drive, and you've got to run the disc brake on the right side.

Pretty sweet frame though!

L8R

They did the chain on the opposite side to minimize height. On the current generation of Nucleon's they run the chain on the right hand side but it requires them to move everything higher up as they have to stack the drive from the cranks to the gearbox and the gearbox to the rear wheel.

The frame won't be availble for close to a year and the rear hub won't be an issue. It will most likely be included with the frame and lots of people make them. Left side drive hubs are used on tandems sometimes, and what's more they don't actually have to make a left hand drive hub, they can just use a right side setup for fixed gear (no freewheel) and run it backwards. The freewheel is built into the gearbox so there is no need for one on the wheel itself. And realistically, there is no reason you would run a standard hub anyway, you'd run a singlespeed hub, almost all of which can be setup to run fixed gear.

Whoa whoa whoa chief.. I wasn't saying it was unreliable, I was saying I'd like to be able to replace/repair it's components without being ASE certified in automatic transmission repair!! I rarely ever have derailler problems, but when I do I service/repair them myself instead of sending it to some German corporation thousands of miles away. I'm sure it's a reliable and great system, but the weight constraints and repair issues are what will keep me from owning one until I know they're fairly simple and reliable. If I can work on it myself (Or if repairs never have to happen) and it weighs close to a derailler setup then I'll buy one. Oh, and it has to be compatible with conventional frames, wheelsets, brakes, etc.

Whoa whoa whoa chief.. I wasn't saying it was unreliable, I was saying I'd like to be able to replace/repair it's components without being ASE certified in automatic transmission repair!! I rarely ever have derailler problems, but when I do I service/repair them myself instead of sending it to some German corporation thousands of miles away. I'm sure it's a reliable and great system, but the weight constraints and repair issues are what will keep me from owning one until I know they're fairly simple and reliable. If I can work on it myself (Or if repairs never have to happen) and it weighs close to a derailler setup then I'll buy one. Oh, and it has to be compatible with conventional frames, wheelsets, brakes, etc.

I never said or implied that you thought it was unreliable. I just questioned your need to be able to work on it. There are plenty of parts on a bike people don't work on themselves. A good example is your frame, it can break and I really doubt you'd be fixing it up yourself but that wouldn't stop you from mountain biking. As long as breaking was very rare and there was good warranty service you would still buy a bike with a frame you couldn't fix your self right?

Again with the deraileurs, if they break do you really fix it on the trail? I've never seen this done. Sure a cable could break, you'd replace it, same with a gearbox cable, but if a deraileur catches on a log and rips off how would you "repair" it yourself on the trail? And more importantly, what are the changes of ripping a deraileur off of your bike (or more commonly hitting it hard enough to cause sloppy shifting) vs. the chances of ripping the gearbox out of your bike?

Another thing to keep in mind is this is for environments that are hard on deraileurs, the imperial is a hardcore urban bike and the Nucleon is a World Cup DH race bike, both enviroments where people routinely smack their deraileurs hard enough to cause significant play in the bushings and crappy shifting, or worse yet rip the deraileur straight off the bike. In these cases servicing a hub when it breaks down isn't the issue, the issue is keeping the bike in one piece long enough to finish your ride. If you are riding in situations that aren't hard on your deraileur then there is no reason to replace it, you'll never see gearboxes on road bikes as deraileurs are more efficient.

Seriously though, these things are tough. As with disc brakes that gained popularity on tandems and then moved to regular bikes, the Rohloff's are very common on tandems and are just now moving to regular bikes. A couple of guys finished 8th place in the TransAlp challenge on a tandem bike with a Rohloff. That's two racers pouring all of their weight and strength into one drivetrain, through thousands of miles of what's widely considered the toughest mountain bike race on the planet without a problem. In fact, with over 10,000 Rohloff's out there there has never been a catastrophic failure. They were known for leaky seals for a while that caused them to leak oil but they work perfectly without any oil. People have ripped the shift box off in a crash, but you can easily fix that yourself. As far as the internals failing and leaving you screwed, it just doesn't happen. It is much more likely that your frame will break than a Rohloff would break. Tell me how you'll fix that on the trail? Or your handlebars, or your fork, or your cranks, or etc, etc, etc.

Do you really keep spare cranks, bottom brackets, bars, and seatposts with you in case you break one in a bad crash, or like the rest of us do you realize that since the chances of any of these parts breaking is so small you just ignore them and focus on the things that do need a lot of attention like your deraileur? If that's the case, why not move your shifting into the "needs no attention" group, like the rest of the parts that you never even realized you couldn't work on yourself, because you never have to.

This "I only run parts I can fix myself" just doesn't seem realistic. I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion, only that I don't believe that you can fix every part on your bike. And as for sending parts thousands of miles away in Germany it's that's not the case at all. As with just about any other manufacturer who makes parts overseas and sells them in North America there is a service center of here. You could ship your hub to California should you ever need to have it serviced. I've only known one person who had to do that and he was shocked to find out how good their service was. They shipped him a spare rear wheel before he sent his in for service so he would have a wheel to put on his bike and ride with while they were replacing his leaky seals (an older problem that no longer occurs on new hubs) and had his original wheel back to him in a few days. He had zero days without a bike to ride.

My last Rohloff was on three bikes before it was stolen, two of which the frame broke. I never had an issue with the Rohloff. I was a little pissed that I couldn't fix the frame on the trail though. Maybe in the future I will only ride frames made out of legos, sure they'll break 100 times more often, but at least I can fix them on the trail by myself and not have to go back to a bikeshop to get a new frame :rolleyes:

The conventional Rohloffs are compatible with conventional frames, wheels, etc. The g-boxx obviously would not be, and I'm happy about that. Luddites afraid of change stand in the way of progress. I can't count the number of people who talked trash about disc brakes because they weren't compatible with the post mounts that all frames at that time had on them. God I love my disc brakes and sure am happy that there were enough people who wanted something better instead of the same old crap that disc brake mounts eventually started getting put on just about every frame made.

And please realize I am not attacking you. I don't care what you think or desire. You could be a single speed fan for all I care and not deal with shifting in any way. I am only presenting an opposing point of view because this is a public forum where many people who don't have much knowledge about bikes go to learn and I would really hate them to not want to ride a part because they couldn't fix it themselves on the trail. I watched someone try to talk a friend out of hydraulic disc brakes for the same reason this past summer and had to spend half an hour showing her all the reasons that was ridiculous.

Am I the only one here who thinks it's rather obvious that it only matters if you can fix something yourself on the trail if it brakes? If someday someone designed a magic bike that like your frame was complete from the factory and almost never broke (like your frame) but that you couldn't work on yourself (like your frame), even the tires would never flat (instead made out of a soft rubbery substance lighter than air :) ) would you really turn your back on it? Or would you instead ditch your tool kit and just enjoy riding your bike without constantly worrying about breaking it and how you would fix it?

Jesus dude, is that a post or an encyclopedia!

You raise some valid points. Like I said, if it's indestructable or unlikely to break, I have no problems with it. My real issue is the weight. I love the issue of efficiency and the gear selection they offer. Precise increases in effort by each shift would be awesome. So as soon as they become more popular and ready for the XC world I'm not opposed to it. But I don't see that happening for a long time.

Yeah, I think you're right that XC is a long ways out, if ever. It's theoretically possible with some work that they might be able get the weight down below the weight of a conventional drivetrain but everything I know about mechanical engineering says that they will never get the efficiency quite as high as a deraileur. Chain drive with all it's problems is one of the most efficient forms of energy transfer available.

There's so many different planetary gears and complicated mechanisms in thos gearboxes that it's not even funny. Everything has to be pretty strong to handle those cranking forces, and when everything is miniaturized strength is an issue. The day will come, but I think it's quite a ways off.

I never understoon the concern over hydraulic brakes and the possibility of "breaking a line" on the trail. I've never seen it happen, and the chances are pretty slim that it would.

Plus, I destroy wheels. You can only bang them back into shape so far as a trailside repair. I've walked my bike back to the trailhead too many times for tacoed wheels. I don't ride around with a spare wheel or other things that are impractical. Plus, if I carried enough small parts for that one chance in a thousand that something will break, I'd need a 40 lb pack. I carry the bare necessities (Tube, Patch Kit, Mini-pump, chain tool, and mini-tool and most importantly some duct tape). If I can't fix it with that, it can't be fixed! I don't worry about what "could" happen. I get my bike in the best mechanical condition before the ride and just "Ride". If it breaks, I walk back. So be it!

L8R

Nah, Michelin Jet S.... kick ass street tires, but I thought I was the only one who used a XC race tire for urban stuff.


:)

Dude I run specialized semi slicks for urban and on the trail.... lol they are sooo fast on hard pack... I must be insane

I ride with those Jet S tires on the trail, just not anyplace with loose or wet terrain. They haul ass in dry hardpack, but anything other than that is sketchy.

Have you guys seen this?:http://64.4.16.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=2e2d832cd37457652c502a22d1ee3b1a&lat=1072192520&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fcgi%2eebay%2ecom%2fws%2feBayISAPI%2edll%3fViewItem%26amp%3bitem%3d364765576 9%26amp%3bssPageName%3dADME%3aB%3aSS%3aUS%3a1

you want to bid on a chance to put down a deposit. WHAT?

Why not just order one and wait!

L8R