kill your television.

[roseskunk]

that's all. :thumb:

[donnamb]

:beer:

Though I should be good and connect it to LCF somehow... Not being exposed to television, commercials, etc. prevents me from being bombarded with images of how people who don't know me at all think my life should be led. Those images invariably involve owning a car. I find such images annoying and tedious.

Also, because I don't have a TV, I have room for another bookshelf. That's where I keep my bicycle books. :)

[big scholar]

kill your message board? i can understand harboring resentment for faux news, most reality TV, and right wing talking heads, but it's pretty ridiculous to write off the medium wholesale. if it weren't for TV, we would never have had The Wire, which is at least fifty times as effective an indictment of american culture than message board posts admonishing television consumption could ever hope to be ;)

edit: typoz. the TVs are making me dumb!!!!!!!!!11

[gwd]

kill your message board? i can understand harboring resentment for faux news, most reality TV, and right wing talking heads, but it's pretty ridiculous to write off the medium wholesale. if it weren't for TV, we would never have had The Wire, which is at least fifty times as effective an indictment of american culture that message board posts admonishing television consumption could ever hope to be ;)

edit: typoz. the TVs are making me dumb!!!!!!!!!11

Whats "The Wire"? A friend in Baltimore had some scenes of a show with a name like that shot in her apartment. I wonder if it is the same show? How is it an indictment of our culture? Is it a good thing? Should I buy a TV just to watch that one show indict my culture? We keep bringing up TV on living car free because the shows or commercials keep telling people they need a car when we know people really don't need cars? So is the wire a show that reinforces a message that people don't need cars? Tell us more.

[big scholar]

I would never recommend that someone purchase a TV simply to watch The Wire. That would be just as silly as encouraging people to write off the medium for fear that they might fall prey to Chevy Tahoe commercial!

Seriously, I'm hesitant to pursue this line further; I fundamentally agree with the spirit of this forum, and I'm afraid of inadvertently falling into the trap of promoting habits that I actually find destructive (like buying new HDTVs every year and a half).

If you seriously want to talk about The Wire, I'm more than happy to. It is indeed a masterful critique of 21st century American culture. No, it doesn't quite have an overt anti-car (or pro-sustainability) message; it actually delves deeper into the root causes that have contributed to the way our system currently works. It's also a brilliant drama with amazing characters :)

[FXjohn]

only a fool would throw out their TV. You can watch high quality stuff on many channels and you can rent DVD's.

[garysol1]

LoL.....TV is the devil.....Right now I am watching the history of the Samurai warrior. This morning before I rode I watched a recording of this years Paris Roubaix. ....... I think Ill keep my TV for a while. If anyone is throwing there's out please feel free to send it to me.........as long as it is HD.

[Artkansas]

You might want to check out Link TV, Channel 9410, Television Without Borders (http://www.linktv.org/) on Dish Network.

Their website will give you a hint of the gems there.

[joetotale]

But then how would I watch PBS and The Simpsons!?

[gwd]

I would never recommend that someone purchase a TV simply to watch The Wire. That would be just as silly as encouraging people to write off the medium for fear that they might fall prey to Chevy Tahoe commercial!

Seriously, I'm hesitant to pursue this line further; I fundamentally agree with the spirit of this forum, and I'm afraid of inadvertently falling into the trap of promoting habits that I actually find destructive (like buying new HDTVs every year and a half).

If you seriously want to talk about The Wire, I'm more than happy to. It is indeed a masterful critique of 21st century American culture. No, it doesn't quite have an overt anti-car (or pro-sustainability) message; it actually delves deeper into the root causes that have contributed to the way our system currently works. It's also a brilliant drama with amazing characters :)
So, what does the Wire say are the root causes of the way our system currently works? Why is it better for me to watch it than for example responding to a post on LCF or if I want to learn how our system works, participating in it or taking a class in the facet I want to participate in? People who I know watch a lot of TV seem to live more or less in a fantasy world so claims of fictional TV shows teaching something contradicting what I observe.

Several times I've known adults who thought so highly of fictional TV shows that they would adopt the mannerisms and lifestyles of the characters. One guy was living a soap opera like life. Years later someone who knew him and his girlfriend pointed out to me that they had adopted a show called "Friends". He showed me one of those magazines at the checkout stand and he was right, the guy and his girlfriend had the same hairstyles as two actors on the show. I don't know the plot lines for that soap opera but the mutual acquaintance said they had acted out in their own lives some of the plot lines to the extent of the guy getting the girl pregnant and not marrying her. Apparently that happened to the two characters they modeled themselves after too. Can that be true? Do you big scholar do the same thing with the wire? Do you adopt the mannerisms of the actors on the show and act out some of what you see? How common is that? I've known other people who get together to have TV show themed weekly get togethers, I forgot the shows, one was Alley something and another was X factor or X something. I never attended I just heard about them. Oh yeah another was about an Island- Cheating Island or something like that. It makes me wonder how much of how I see people acting is people like that trying to model their behavior after TV characters.

So anyway, how can the Wire help me as a car free person? Should I ask one of my TV watching friends to let me come over to see it so I can delve deeply into how our system currently works?

[Buglady]

Way ahead of you, cut the cable last year. We watch a lot of movies and documentaries, but also TV shows on DVD, which is great for the ones that have season-long story arcs. You get the best of the medium without the mindless ads and chatter. And no reality shows!

[cyclezealot]

We own a TV for movies. Premimum channels without ads keep us somewhat addicted. Other than that, I view TV as a channel for disinformation.

[big scholar]

Do you big scholar do the same thing with the wire? Do you adopt the mannerisms of the actors on the show and act out some of what you see? How common is that?

So anyway, how can the Wire help me as a car free person? Should I ask one of my TV watching friends to let me come over to see it so I can delve deeply into how our system currently works?

Not sure how common that is. Sounds like you have an idea, though. And I sure as hell hope I'm not "adopting the mannerisms" of the characters in that show. Not to spoil anything for you, but let's just say that many of them don't meet good ends ;)

I definitely recommend watching it if one of your friends has the series on DVD, but only as long as you don't drive to their place!

[chephy]

News? What news? They show news on TV? News to me! :D

I thought TVs were meant primarily for hooking DVD players up to them and watching DVDs. And a sporting event or two from time to time.

[gerv]

I do have a TV in my house. The problem is that it's never turned off for some reason. I find the noise from it irritating.

TV is the type of medium where you sit to watch it and you either go to sleep or you stay there.... in a trance. Also, I suspect there are a lot of good things on TV, but I usually miss these. Instead when I do watch TV, it is a diet of 'Inside Edition'.

Generally, for me, it's a great mechanism for a nap.

[Lamplight]

Bah, I stopped watching it months ago. I started to realize that the only shows I was watching were reruns, and the commercials became more and more annoying. I think that was back in October, and since then I have not once had any desire to watch it again. I do still have a television, though, because I sometimes like to watch old movies on DVD. Though I find myself doing that less and less. Now I draw or read instead of watching TV, and like living car free, my only regret is that I didn't do it sooner.

[KrisPistofferson]

How clean a technology is a TV compared to an automobile, even a Prius? The case could be made that it pollutes the mental environment, but so does cruising the 'net 12 hours a day for tentacle porn like I know some of you obviously do. Seriously, on the big list of things white people have to be smug about, going without a teevee isn't nearly as impressive as running a marathon or going to graduate school. :troll:

[roseskunk]

only a fool would throw out their TV. You can watch high quality stuff on many channels and you can rent DVD's.

wow fxjohn, you've called me a fool and an ass within a couple of days. i think this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship. :love:

[big scholar]

...but so does cruising the 'net 12 hours a day for tentacle porn like I know some of you obviously do. Seriously, on the big list of things white people have to be smug about, going without a teevee isn't nearly as impressive as running a marathon or going to graduate school. :troll:

Tentacle porn is played out already. It's all about the Grant Petersen/Joel Salatin slash fiction TYVM :love:

Reading is better than watching cartoons, right?

[KrisPistofferson]

Tentacle porn is played out already. It's all about the Grant Petersen/Joel Salatin slash fiction TYVM :love:
:roflmao2:

[Tabor]

Sorry, can't. I am addicted to Frontline (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/).

[oldfool]

Television is a communication device. If it had been around during World War Two then perhaps some of the atrocities that happen would have been nipped in the bud. Because of it and the selling power of war we witnessed the Vietnam fiasco and I think changed the outcome of that boondoggle. The Chinese get away with their massive oppression but the Tiananmen Square affair and their inability to stop the roof top transmissions has changed that somewhat. Serbia is forever painted with a blood brush because of their actions all seen on TV. Even the mighty United States and its heroic efforts to censure the oil driven war in Iraq can't stop the news from being exposed on the small screen.

We are informed if we want it. If you choose not to be then that is your business. If you choose to turn you brain into mush watching drivel then you are not reading this. In fact if you are even here then you are far above the average TV watcher. Just remember that television is aimed at a very low common denominator. :notamused:

[Dr.PooLittle]

2 words: Battlestar Galactica.

[CrimsonEclipse]

2 words: Battlestar Galactica.
:thumb:
word.

...and History channel, Discovery, and Comedy Central.

If only there was a la carte pricing. :love:

CE

[Nycycle]

No time for TV here,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,cars are a pain.

[bragi]

I have to agree with the pro-TV people, even though I rarely watch it any more myself. Some shows are actually pretty informative, if you're selective about what you watch, and even some rather useless shows, like Mythbusters, are kind of fun. (Remember fun?)

Most reality shows, though, worry me. I don't get them. What's so fun about putting a bunch of self-involved, sometimes rather stupid a**holes into silly, contrived conflicts and then recording the fiasco for our prurient pleasure? The really bad thing about these shows is that they are exported to other countries, where people watch them and conclude that all Americans are like that, thus fueling already-growing international contempt for our country and our people.

[keisatsu]

Sorry, can't. I am addicted to Frontline (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/).

You win at TV...

Frontline is awesome

[Mr York]

TV watching is brain poison for me because of the commercial and propagandistic nature of it. Yes some of the programming is good, but not enough for me to sit and watch it and be brainwashed by commercial breaks, product placements, and celebrity endorsements. TV viewing lulls my brain into a passive mode and content is presented without pause, the type of pause I need to stop and think (e.g., is this true).

I have a large screen monitor for viewing select videos, playing games, etc, but I don't have broadcast reception or cable. I basically try to avoid as many attempts to manipulate my mind for commercial ends as I can manage. TV viewing is is just that. Radio is similar. Constant music is similar in that it keeps me from thinking clearly and deeply about things before my brain is sent off on another set of lyrics. The world would probably be a better place if people could think in peace and quiet for long stretches. As it is now, many people don't want to be alone with their thoughts for more than a few minutes before they look to fill the silence with something. It's too bad too.

Not enough brain time in society today. That is probably how the powers that be want it too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

Since adopting this policy, I have noticed my anger level decrees, depth of thought increase, and my improved patience levels allows me to tackle projects I couldn't do before, like learning history, philosophy, and science at levels "I never had time for" before.

I think that the elevated anger level in me was due to media manipulation that I am apparently susceptible to and was succumbing to. Without the daily even hourly media influence, I am much more at peace. But it required getting rid of talk radio too, not just TV. I have also gotten rid of music radio just because it interferes with deep thinking, well that and the RIAA are a bunch of *******s that I will not support, even tacitly.

[cyclezealot]

TV can be vastly improved. Throughout much of the EU there is a TV tax per home. ITs like 100 dollars a year./ It supports the national TV networks. And on those networks, TV ads pale in comparsion to US standards. Some networks offer no ads at all. Some like 30 seconds every 15 minutes. The US more like 1 minute every 6-7 minutes? / So its odd to watch US broadcast in the EU. You get a little blip when you realize the US programming has taken a break for an ad. We see lots of little 'blips,' san the actual ad. I find the little blip in content annoying , it really would be an annoyance if we had to watch the actual ad.

[Hobartlemagne]

TV can be vastly improved. Throughout much of the EU there is a TV tax per home. ITs like 100 dollars a year./ It supports the national TV networks. And on those networks, TV ads pale in comparsion to US standards. Some networks offer no ads at all. Some like 30 seconds every 15 minutes. The US more like 1 minute every 6-7 minutes? / So its odd to watch US broadcast in the EU. You get a little blip when you realize the US programming has taken a break for an ad. We see lots of little 'blips,' san the actual ad. I find the little blip in content annoying , it really would be an annoyance if we had to watch the actual ad.

It would annoy me to pay a tax that goes to programming I don't watch.
My method- no receiving of broadcasted programming. Only DVDs. I specifically seek out and
watch only what I want. I never see ads or garbage tv out of laziness. One big benefit-
I never have to fuss at a cable company about service issues ever!

[I-Like-To-Bike]

TV watching is brain poison for me because of the commercial and propagandistic nature of it. Yes some of the programming is good, but not enough for me to sit and watch it and be brainwashed by commercial breaks, product placements, and celebrity endorsements. TV viewing lulls my brain into a passive mode and content is presented without pause, the type of pause I need to stop and think (e.g., is this true).

I have a large screen monitor for viewing select videos, playing games, etc, but I don't have broadcast reception or cable. I basically try to avoid as many attempts to manipulate my mind for commercial ends as I can manage. TV viewing is is just that. Radio is similar. Constant music is similar in that it keeps me from thinking clearly and deeply about things before my brain is sent off on another set of lyrics. The world would probably be a better place if people could think in peace and quiet for long stretches. As it is now, many people don't want to be alone with their thoughts for more than a few minutes before they look to fill the silence with something. It's too bad too.

Not enough brain time in society today. That is probably how the powers that be want it too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bread_and_circuses

Since adopting this policy, I have noticed my anger level decrees, depth of thought increase, and my improved patience levels allows me to tackle projects I couldn't do before, like learning history, philosophy, and science at levels "I never had time for" before.

I think that the elevated anger level in me was due to media manipulation that I am apparently susceptible to and was succumbing to. Without the daily even hourly media influence, I am much more at peace. But it required getting rid of talk radio too, not just TV. I have also gotten rid of music radio just because it interferes with deep thinking, well that and the RIAA are a bunch of *******s that I will not support, even tacitly.

Protect your brain from all those the evil influences!:wtf: Good protection also for those who enjoy riding similar cultural high horses on LCF.

Note: OP only took a week to make my prediction come true: http://67.201.16.77/showpost.php?p=6674372&postcount=24

[cyclezealot]

It would annoy me to pay a tax that goes to programming I don't watch.
My method- no receiving of broadcasted programming. Only DVDs. I specifically seek out and
watch only what I want. I never see ads or garbage tv out of laziness. One big benefit-
I never have to fuss at a cable company about service issues ever!

It would Be an interesting poll. In the EU I sense consumer satisfaction is much higher with its media. Doubt many would bother to think , "Kill your TV." If people were annoyed with the tax, I'd think there would be more political opposition to it? TV seems pretty popular on this side of the pond. More options. There even is a national arts channel, you'd never see in the US without some endowment saying brought to you by.... .

[I-Like-To-Bike]

It would Be an interesting poll. In the EU I sense consumer satisfaction is much higher with its media. Doubt many would bother to think , "Kill your TV." If people were annoyed with the tax, I'd think there would be more political opposition to it? TV seems pretty popular on this side of the pond. More options. There even is a national arts channel, you'd never see in the US without some endowment saying brought to you by.... .

Last time I lived in the EU (2002) the local broadcast TV was filled with US programming dubbed in German. That and soccer matches.

[cyclezealot]

We get lots of US broadcast too. On certain stations. Just mostly minus the commericals. Compared to US standards. Those US broadcast being on private stations carried by satellite. Never realized how much I missed by not watching programming such as the "Riches,' while living in the US. Movies ruled. Had No time for stuff like the Riches.

[chephy]

I do have a TV in my house. The problem is that it's never turned off for some reason. I find the noise from it irritating. A lot of people actually find it comforting, and feel all uneasy if it's missing. That's my father's routine: come into the living room => turn the TV on. Really sad, I think, and really ANNOYING if you have to share a living space with such an individual. I did all through childhood, but, blissfully, not since I was 18. :)

[Mr York]

Protect your brain from all those the evil influences!:wtf: Good protection also for those who enjoy riding similar cultural high horses on LCF.

[lovely photo snipped]

I find the AFDB brand version of the aluminum foil beanie works much better ;)
http://zapatopi.net/afdb/
Accept no imitations! :lol:

[sherpa93]

Ive watched 5 min of TV since 2000. What did I miss? Tell me true... :crash:

[Roody]

I think the commercials are actually better than many of the programs, but I admit that I have pretty bad taste. Besides PBS, the shows I like the most right now are South Park and Family Guy. :o

[AllenG]

Ive watched 5 min of TV since 2000. What did I miss? Tell me true... :crash:

Some spectacularly good series on HBO. The Wire (http://www.hbo.com/thewire/), specifically, being so good it should be considered some of America's best literature.
You have also missed a precipitous fall in the quality of the major networks' programming.
And you've missed Rupert Murdoch make William Randolph Hearst sit up in his grave and golf clap.

[gwd]

Not sure how common that is. Sounds like you have an idea, though. And I sure as hell hope I'm not "adopting the mannerisms" of the characters in that show. Not to spoil anything for you, but let's just say that many of them don't meet good ends ;)

I definitely recommend watching it if one of your friends has the series on DVD, but only as long as you don't drive to their place!

Well since there has been so much buzz, I'll pay attention if it ever comes up. I'd especially like to see the episode where a few scenes were shot at my friends front door and kitchen it its the same show. But, I'm skeptical. I was at a poetry reading with the poet laureate over at the library of congress in the late 90s and this old guy being honoured for his accomplishments between two readings made a comment referencing a show called 'Seinfield". So a few years later I had my dad stop channel surfing long enough to watch half a show. It didn't seem like it was worth buying a TV for.

[Lamplight]

And you've missed Rupert Murdoch make William Randolph Hearst sit up in his grave and golf clap.

:lol:

[roseskunk]

ah, the fool returns. even better than tinfoil on your head, getting rid of your television does wonders. i wrote this thread after reading about the guy who grows vegetables in his yard- which btw is also not about living car free but i thought was terrific; and also after going to a small bookshop the other day to find that they'd installed two large televisions in their store. televisions in a bookstore... there are also now televisions in the only coffee shop in my little town. i haven't had a television in my house in more than twenty years (says the smug white man with a graduate degree) and find it very liberating. i'm no luddite either, i have a subscription to netflix (where you can rent the wire for instance), read the news from various sources and have an ample music and book library. i find television to be insulting. i can't stand the constant barrage of ads telling you that you're not pretty enough, not rich enough, not good enough- unless you buy whatever they're selling. i find commercials of SUV's on top of pristine mountains particularly annoying, and i decided that the best thing that i could do was to get rid of that idiot box in my house. television certainly isn't communication, not in the traditional sense where people converse. more and more it's about fewer and fewer people having a voice in anything. television is not much more than propaganda, in my opinion. people watch a ridiculous amount of it, and little productive comes from that. fool that i am, i find it difficult to talk or to think with that thing blaring in the background. try going without it for a few weeks, you might just surprise yourself. now if i can just do the same with my computer...

[I-Like-To-Bike]

i read the news from various sources...

How do you handle all the ads in those sources? Do you rip all the ads out of the magazines and newspapers before perusing the contents? Sure hope you have figured out how to prevent ads from appearing on your Web Browser. Otherwise your self professed inability to ignore any media distraction might throw you into a tizzy.

[Mr York]

The difference between typical web ads and typical media ads to me is the web ads are silent, they are off to the side, and can be mostly ignored when one wants to ignore them. The typical media ad is louder than the program you are watching, is shown instead of the program, and uses every mind trick known to get your brain to respond (apply directly to the forehead). On the one hand you have a nice neighbor vs a neighbor from hell. Same with radio. That is one reason I prefer interacting online rather than to passively consume what is pushed to me on tv or radio.

Now some web ads use the same authoritarian techniques (popups, scroll by's, flashing, etc) that force your focus on them. Websites that employ them I tend to stop using if they become obnoxious. But at least online I have a bigger choice than I do with TV or radio where they all behave the same way, thanks no doubt to media consolidation.

Don't greedily steal my attention. Leave that up to me. I will respect the advertiser much more if they do. If they sink to low depths (like the apply to the forehead people) I will view them as mental poison and dissuade anyone who asks my opinion of them from using their products.

Here on BF I look at the ads and click on the ones I am interested in, but it is on my time and when I am interested. The ads here are low impact and relevant and I find little problem with them.

[Lamplight]

How do you handle all the ads in those sources? Do you rip all the ads out of the magazines and newspapers before perusing the contents? Sure hope you have figured out how to prevent ads from appearing on your Web Browser. Otherwise your self professed inability to ignore any media distraction might throw you into a tizzy.


It's a little easier to ignore an advertisement in a newspaper, magazine, or on the internet. You simply go past it while looking for the information you want. I very rarely even notice ads on the internet. In fact, I couldn't even tell you a single thing about any of the ads on bikeforums because they just don't register in my mind. With television, the ads are visual as well as audible. Of course you can turn off the TV during commercials, but chances are you'll miss some of whatever you were watching after the commercial break. Plus, turning a tv off and on over and over again would get old to me, especially since I can't remember much on tv worth watcing in the first place.

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I used to watch tv I would feel very tired afterward. I never realized that until I stopped watching it. And some people I know practically become zombies while watching. If you try to talk to them while there's a tv on, they don't hear a word you say. They just sit in complete silence. It's almost creepy, to be honest.

[Mr York]

I can't speak for anyone else, but when I used to watch tv I would feel very tired afterward. I never realized that until I stopped watching it.

:lol: reminds me of Max Headroom blipverts
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blipvert
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwC5XGSgcww

It is kind of creepy how that show is slowly becoming a reality. They have TV's everywhere now, at the restaurant, grocery store, elevator, etc, etc.

[thebarerider]

How do you handle all the ads in those sources? Do you rip all the ads out of the magazines and newspapers before perusing the contents? Sure hope you have figured out how to prevent ads from appearing on your Web Browser. Otherwise your self professed inability to ignore any media distraction might throw you into a tizzy.

I know :eek: Advertisements are everywhere and if you are a thinking individual, you can ignore them, on TV or otherwise. Are there subtle influences? Probably. Does that really matter to me? Not at all. No human in any time has ever understood all the things that made him or her up, so you know...whatever.

I own a TV (a flat screen HD at that :love:) but haven't had cable in four years, when I still lived at home. The only thing I watch with any regularity are DVDs of Seinfeld and NBA basketball games. I sometimes watch The Office if I happen to remember when it's on. I paid $40 for an HD antenna and get all the channels I really want, although I miss a lot of good basketball because of it.

I could care less if you don't have a TV, though. Doesn't really affect me. But it's too easy to cast it off as "propaganda," especially when you start talking about people who want to keep it that way, as if there is some vast conspiracy. Give. Me. A. Break.

[peace_piper]

Killing your tv definitely has my vote. I went without tv one week long ago in high school as part of that turn your tv off week thing. (Do they still have that in high schools today, I wonder?) After the week was over, I found it a lot easier than I thought it would be. I didn't go back to watching tv unless there was something specific on that I wanted to watch. I really enjoyed the show Roseanne, but apart from a tv movie that's on once in a while, I never turn my tv on.

Except for video games, but that's different.

[Artkansas]

Ive watched 5 min of TV since 2000. What did I miss? Tell me true... :crash:

It depends on what channel you haven't been watching.

[cerewa]

TV viewing lulls my brain into a passive mode and content is presented without pause, the type of pause I need to stop and think (e.g., is this true).


Well said. TV viewing is a very physically passive activity which very rarely encourages critical thinking or analysis. I find some shows fun to watch, but they still do not lend themselves to critical thinking.

I see no real benefit to having spent many hours of my life watching TV.

Bikeforums is extremely useful sometimes, but sometimes it's like TV, in terms of being a way of short-circuiting my natural tendency to become bored when I'm not doing anything worthwhile.