Commuting - A cardanic shaft bike

Hi! Check this (http://www.biomega.dk/) out! Looks like some nice bikes to me; they say that the transmission loss in these is actually smaller than in traditional bikes. And doesn´t cost WAY too much.

Jaakko

And doesn´t cost WAY too much.

Just how much is 5,500 Euros in American dollars?

there is not much real info on that site. The last time shaft drive bikes were brought up here they were ripped for having to much energy loss through the gears.

Bamboo aluminum lugs?

I checked today's date and it is not 4/1.

1$ == 1Euro

You can see the "car-influenced design" in the extortionate pricing, the integration of non-compatable parts, the one size fits 5'3-6'3 riders, and the outergration of essentials like somewhere to put your shopping, and something to keep road muck off your designer clothes.
I'm sure the shaft drive would be acceptable on a short-range urban shopper/commuter, but these are designer fantasy bikes. You are more likely to see these bikes in design museums, rather than chained to the railings on the street.

The sucky music, which appears to be someone farting against a drumbeat, is enough to disqualify the whole line from serious consideration.

Interesting that their cheaper bikes have shaft drive and their more expensive ones have chain drive.

However, I'm open minded on shaft drive. The ones I have encountered have been mounted on trash bikes. I doubt if they could ever be as efficient as chains, but if done properly, might be acceptable. It might be easier toi remove a rear wheel than with a chaincase.

To that end, it is good to see fairly expensive shaft drive bikes being built.

Paul

A quick internet search yielded several other manufacturers and distributors of relatively inexpensive chainless bikes currently available in the US. I saw one last week at my LBS, and despite the bicycle philistines' and nazis' inability to accept chainless drive, I think it has a certain potential and promise, when it comes to making bicycling more accessible and acceptable to the general public.

http://www.chainless.com/mountainbikes.html
http://customer.manufacture.com.tw/~worldscape/index.html
http://www.bikedriveshaft.com/
http://www.freedombikes.com/bikecatalog/SER_Chainless_bicycles/ser_chainless__bikes.htm

...how many of you guys have actually tried a cardanic bike? I haven´t, and cannot say anything for or against the system. So, if there is somebody having actually experience on this matter, please comment! The "I-know-everything-it-is-s**t" -opinions can just be ignored, I could write also some, but don´t find it very fruitful.

...how many of you guys have actually tried a cardanic bike? I haven´t, and cannot say anything for or against the system. So, if there is somebody having actually experience on this matter, please comment! The "I-know-everything-it-is-s**t" -opinions can just be ignored, I could write also some, but don´t find it very fruitful.
Of course, Jaakko, you are asking an objective question. I don't know anything about these bikes, but I had to ask about the price. I just couldn't afford $5,000 for a bike, even if it was the latest in technology.

Everyone has their opinions, but I think you'll find that many of those in these forums are based on some experience. Is that not the kind of opinion you are looking for?

I hope you don't take offense at any of us, I think we are just giving honest opinions.

Nice ad! Is that A. Troll riding that fancy bike nekkid????

Cool! Commuter/shopping bikes with no provision for fenders, racks, panniers, lights, locks...
The utter separation from reality is refreshing, though.

Also interesting that their expensive, chain-drive (but lacking a chainguard) "Relampago" is advertised as having low transmission losses.

Swoopy shapes and fluorescent lacquer, indeed! Stylists and industrial designers are a rum lot. Wish they would all go away.

Don't get me wrong. Shaft drives are cleaner and more reliable than chain drives -- that's why car and motorcycles have them. However, nobody has yet demonstrated acceptable efficiency.

And "cardanic" ! LOL That is just a kind of universal joint.

Paul

...how many of you guys have actually tried a cardanic bike? I haven´t, and cannot say anything for or against the system. So, if there is somebody having actually experience on this matter, please comment! The "I-know-everything-it-is-s**t" -opinions can just be ignored, I could write also some, but don´t find it very fruitful.

Glad to be able to help. :rolleyes:

...to the doubters, this is NOT a paid ad, I am from Finland, not Denmark, and have never seen the bike models displayed at the site. Besides, most of you guys are probably from the States, and as somebody showed in some links, there are more than enough US cardanic shaft models.

Why 5000 Euros? The Copenhagen model, as far as my eyes function, costs 1350 Euros. Which is a lot to me also, but is nothing unusual compared to the traditional bike price tags.

I am just curious, how does it feel to ride one. Would like to try one myself, not necessarily buy. I just haven´t seen or heard, that there were any in Finland.

Jaakko

You know, Jaakko, I hope you continue to post more on these forums. Personally, I'm excited when people from other countries come on board. It provides me the opportunity to see what cyclists' experiences in other countries
might be.

Pete

I'll second LittleBigMan's input and thanks for the link. I really enjoyed the young lady crossing the screen on her bike, sort of looks like she's in a slo-mo replay of what went wrong during the ride. I'm thinking of the last time I did that and how much worse the cut would have been if I was dressed like her.

I'll second LittleBigMan. It is good to have you aboard. Personally, I would find a shaft drive bike attractive for a number of reasons. Thanks for bringing it to our attention.

However, there were a number of things about the site you forwarded that were unconvincing.

Paul

>>>they say that the transmission loss in these is actually smaller than in traditional bikes. And doesn´t cost WAY too much.<<<<

These bikes do cost WAAAAAY too much. Who do you know is going to chain a $1,350.00 dollar commuter to a bike rack and put it through snow, salt and mud?

I would never put down that kind of money for a Nexus 7 bike that will be subjected to all the elements. A commuter should cost no more than $600.00 dollars as the possibility of getting it stolen are VERY high. You should really ride used bikes as commuters to limit you loses.

A person who spends 5K on a Cardanic and passed up a "LightSpeed" basically got ripped off! Seriously.. Do you get a couple of trips to Disney Land with this bike? Do they send you a Swedish nurse to live with you?

You tell somone you just spent 5K on a Cardanic shaft bike and people will tell you "Boy they really gave you the SHAFT"!

Ok OK You can insert your favorite deam machine name where I put "LightSpeed".

I rode one this past summer at the bike shop. It seemed to take more effort but that might have been mental. Losing around 20% to drivetrain losses as opposed to less than 10% is a lot but if that does not bother you and your type of riding have at it.

These bikes do cost WAAAAAY too much. Who do you know is going to chain a $1,350.00 dollar commuter to a bike rack and put it through snow, salt and mud?

A commuter should cost no more than $600.00 dollars as the possibility of getting it stolen are VERY high. You should really ride used bikes as commuters to limit you loses.

Yeah, but you live in New Jersey, where the bike thieves and the road salt are both plentiful, so your opinion is biased. Besides, there are other shaft drive bicycles that cost a lot less, I saw one at my LBS last week for about $600 and I previously posted some links on this thread to sites that are offering shaft drive bikes for as low as $150 US.

Hmmmmm... I'd like to ride one, I'll give an opinion then.

I'm in the process of building a bike to do a 12,000 mile US perimeter tour on and have been enticed to try a shaft drive meshed with a Rohloff speedhub by the owner of Webcycles. They sell several shaft drives that are very reasonably priced with Sturmey-Archer three speed hubs or Shimano Nexus 7 speeds. He admits they haven't offered any upper end bikes but he's hoping that with the exposure that my ride will give, plus the added endorsement of having performed well (HOPEFULLY) over 12,000 miles and four months of 100+ mile/day rides in all kinds of weather, that there will be more of a market for them.

Also, the University of North Carolina did a research project on differences in efficiency between chain and shaft driven bikes. The findings were very interesting. Chain driven bikes operate optimally at 98.5 percent efficiency. OPTIMALLY. Add dirt, grime, cable stretch, and they typically operate much lower, well below 90 percent on the average. The newer shaft drives start out around 95 percent efficiency, but with a sealed system, the efficiency never degrades, it stays the same. On my last cross country tour, my cables stretched constantly requiring constant adjustments. During an eight hour, 120+ mile day, I picked up so much dirt and grime that the operation degraded throughout the day, DAILY. Not to mention that with the internal shifting hubs, all of your gears are not only in sequential order, they are evenly spaced with the exact same gear ratio increase from one to another.

I can't wait to try it out and give some feedback.

1$ == 1Euro

As of today, 1 euro = $1.33, or $1 = .75 euro.

Not a good exchange rate for Yanks.

I can't wait to try it out and give some feedback.
Yeah that's great. I just wish you hadn't raised a thread that's been dead for 15 months to tell us.

These bikes do cost WAAAAAY too much. Who do you know is going to chain a $1,350.00 dollar commuter to a bike rack and put it through snow, salt and mud?


Heh, I'll be putting my ocr touring through that. I'd do it to my litespeed if the thing had disc brakes and fenders. ;)

I'm in the process of building a bike to do a 12,000 mile US perimeter tour on and have been enticed to try a shaft drive meshed with a Rohloff speedhub by the owner of Webcycles. They sell several shaft drives that are very reasonably priced with Sturmey-Archer three speed hubs or Shimano Nexus 7 speeds. He admits they haven't offered any upper end bikes but he's hoping that with the exposure that my ride will give, plus the added endorsement of having performed well (HOPEFULLY) over 12,000 miles and four months of 100+ mile/day rides in all kinds of weather, that there will be more of a market for them.

Also, the University of North Carolina did a research project on differences in efficiency between chain and shaft driven bikes. The findings were very interesting. Chain driven bikes operate optimally at 98.5 percent efficiency. OPTIMALLY. Add dirt, grime, cable stretch, and they typically operate much lower, well below 90 percent on the average. The newer shaft drives start out around 95 percent efficiency, but with a sealed system, the efficiency never degrades, it stays the same. On my last cross country tour, my cables stretched constantly requiring constant adjustments. During an eight hour, 120+ mile day, I picked up so much dirt and grime that the operation degraded throughout the day, DAILY. Not to mention that with the internal shifting hubs, all of your gears are not only in sequential order, they are evenly spaced with the exact same gear ratio increase from one to another.

I can't wait to try it out and give some feedback.

Cite? I'd like to see this study. I'm not too impressed - you must have been doing something wrong if things were that bad. Either that or you were riding through a frickin' monsoon.

Besides, if you're gonna use an internally geared hub, you might as well use a chain - you will ALWAYS have a perfectly straight chainline, and the shifting systems are protected from the elements. And chains are way cheaper, much easier to maintain, and less expensive to repair/replace.